Israel Wants Apology For Bombing UN Building

[Nbadan]

So much for Precision guided bombs and surgical strikes

Israel's Ambassador to Washington Danny Ayalon said Wednesday that UN Secretary General Kofi Annan should apologize to Israel for saying that dropping a bomb on a UN post in south Lebanon was a deliberate act.

Speaking to CNN Ayalon said Annan's comments are "scandalous," and demanded he apologize. (Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington)

YNet

but the denyers can keep denying that Israel is targeting innocent civilians and now apparently, UN obervation personnel. It's their fault for not leaving Southern Lebanon anyway, right? Or didn't Israel warn them (after they bombed the airport, trains, and roads leading North)?

[cheguevara]

Israeli diplomacy at their best. Turn a huge mistake by their army into an insult from the UN Secretary. genius

Anan was a bit harsh but the UN must have pleaded to Israel not to bomb and they still did. He was probably pissed and lost it.

But Israelis are making this "insult" by Anan seem worse than their huge communication mistake that killed 4 UN soldiers.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah those ers. At least muslims don't kill anyone by mistake. Maybe the Israelis should adopt that policy. Making any attempt to limit collateral damage seems to be doing them zero good, since critics can suggest that Israel is targeting civilians with a straight face. If Israel is targeting civilians, they are doing a piss-poor job of it since the ratio is less than one dead per bomb dropped.

[Nbadan]

More info...

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- The U.N. observers killed when an Israeli bomb made a direct hit on their bunker in southern Lebanon Tuesday called an Israeli military liaison about 10 times in the six hours before they died to warn that the aerial attacks were getting close to their position, according to a U.N. officer.

After each call, the Israeli officer promised to have the bombing stopped, an officer at the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) base in Noqoura said.

Finally, an Israeli bomb exploded directly on the U.N. post near Khiyam, killing four U.N. observers from Austria, Finland, Canada and China, the U.N. officer said.

CNN

[Yonivore]

STOLEN FROM THE BELMONT CLUB:

A Knife-Thrower at the Carnival

Kofi Annan has accused Israel of deliberately targeting UN position in southern Lebanon. According to the Independent:

The UN secretary general Kofi Annan says an Israeli attack on a UN observation post was "apparently deliberate". Four unarmed military observers were killed in the air strike in southern Lebanon. ... Since fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants began two weeks ago, there had been several dozen incidents of firing close to UN peacekeepers and observers, including direct hits on nine positions, some of them repeatedly, a UN official said. ... Last night's bomb made a direct hit on the building and shelter of the observer post in the town of Khiam, near the eastern end of the border with Israel, said Milos Struger, spokesman for the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon known as Unifil.

In order to have some sense of how plausible this accusation is, it would be useful to examine the statements of the UNIFIL itself prior to this incident. Ever since hostilities started UNIFIL has been do enting its activity through a series of press releases. These provide a snapshot into what the UN troops were doing and how they have been faring during the period of combat.

UNIFIL ON JULY 17, 2006

The Lebanese government requested UNIFIL to provide a humanitarian escort to the villagers seeking safe passage outside of Marwahin. UNIFIL dispatched a patrol the village the same day, which stayed with the villagers throughout the night. Yesterday, UNIFIL was able to provide a humanitarian escort to 283 villagers from that area to Tyre. During this mission, the team came under fire, which endangered the lives of local civilians and UNIFIL troops. Initially, Hezbollah fired rockets from the vicinity of the village and subsequently the IDF fired into the village on two occasions.

UNIFIL ON JULY 18, 2006

Heavy exchanges of fire continued all along the length of the Blue Line during the past 24 hours. Rockets were fired from Lebanese territory, and there was intensive s ing and bombing from the Israeli side.

All UNIFIL positions in the area of operation are permanently occupied and maintained by the troops. There were 15 incidents of firing close to UNIFIL positions, and a position close to the village of Marwahin suffered on direct hit from the Israeli side causing material damage, but no injuries. UNIFIL is still facing serious restrictions in its freedom of movement through the area due to the ongoing hostilities and severe destruction of roads and most of the bridges. Yesterday, UNIFIL dispatched a re-supply of food, water, and fuel to its positions.

UNIFIL ON JULY 19, 2006

There were seven incidents of firing close to UN positions. Impacts of Israeli aerial bombardment detonated around 20 land mines in the immediate vicinity of a UNIFIL position south west of the village of Yarun, and caused an outbreak of fire. The troops were able to extinguish the fire before it reached the position. All UNIFIL positions in the area of operation are permanently occupied and maintained by the troops.

UNIFIL ON JULY 20, 2006

There were 31 incidents of firing close to UN positions during the past 24 hours, with three positions suffered direct hits from the Israeli side. Ten artillery s s impacted inside UN position of the Ghanaian battalion on the coast in Ras Naqoura, causing extensive damage. Four artillery s s impacted inside the patrol base of the Observer Group Lebanon in the Marun al Ras area, including three direct impacts on the building which caused extensive damage and cut electricity and communication connections. At the time of the s ing, there were 36 civilians inside the position, most of whom were women and children from the village of Marun Al Ras. There were no casualties. One artillery s impacted inside the UNIFIL Headquarters compound in Naqoura, causing extensive damage and danger to the UNIFIL hospital where the doctors were operating at the time. Splinters of artillery s s also damaged the boundary wall of the Naqoura camp. Extensive s ing damage was reported in the Ghanaian battalion position south of Alma Ash Shab. Hezbollah firing was also reported from the immediate vicinity of the UN positions in Naqoura and Maroun Al Ras areas at the time of the incidents.

UNIFIL ON JULY 21, 2006

There were seven incidents of firing close to UN positions during the past 24 hours, with three positions suffering direct hits from the Israeli side. Three artillery s s impacted on the building inside the patrol base of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL) in the Marun Al Ras area, causing extensive damage to the buildings and vehicles, but with no casualties. Four artillery s s also hit this position a day earlier. There are 34 civilians from the village of Marun Al Ras inside the position. One artillery s impacted inside the UNIFIL Headquarters compound in Naqoura yesterday evening, and one impacted inside a Ghanaian battalion position in the area of the village of Marwahin this morning. No casualties were reported, but there was material damage. UN equipment and vehicles were also damaged by splinters in the Ghanaian battalion position in the area of At Tiri in the central sector, and in the patrol base of the OGL in the Khiyam area in the eastern sector.

UNIFIL ON JULY 22, 2006

There were fifteen incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side during the past 24 hours, including a direct impact from an artillery s inside a Ghanaian battalion position in the Marwahin area. No casualties were reported, but there was some material damage. Thirty two Lebanese civilians from the village of Marun Al Ras, who took shelter inside a patrol base of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL) for the last three days, decided to leave the UN position at their own will this morning, and relocate north. In the last three days, this position suffered direct hits by seven artillery s s on two different occasions.

UNIFIL ON JULY 23, 2006

There were seven incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side during the past 24 hours, mainly due to aerial bombardment in the area of the patrol base of the Observer Group Lebanon in Khiam. All UNIFIL positions in the area of operation remain permanently occupied and maintained by the troops. Yesterday, UNIFIL re-supplied a number of UN forward positions close to the Blue Line, including two positions in the Marun Al Ras area. Additional re-supply convoys are planned for today. UNIFIL provided escort to 150 members of the Lebanese Joint Security Forces and to a number of civilians from Bint Jubayl to Tibnin.

UNIFIL ON JULY 24, 2006

One unarmed UN military observer, a member of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL), was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the patrol base in the Marun Al Ras area yesterday afternoon. According to preliminary reports, the fire originated from the Hezbollah side during an exchange with the IDF. He was evacuated by the UN to the Israeli side, from where he was taken by an IDF ambulance helicopter to a hospital in Haifa. He was operated on, and his condition is now reported as stable. There were nine other incidents of firing close to UN positions during the past 24 hours, with two positions suffering direct hits from the Israeli side. Two aerial bombs impacted inside the Ghanaian battalion headquarters in the area of Tibnin, and three mortar rounds impacted inside an Indian battalion position in the Adaisseh area, causing extensive damage to the buildings and vehicles in both cases, but no casualties. Four aerial bombs impacted in the immediate vicinity of a Ghanaian position in the area of Bra , and eleven tank rounds impacted in the immediate vicinity of a Ghanaian battalion position in the Rmaich area causing significant material damage.

UNIFIL ON JULY 25, 2006

Four members of the Ghanaian battalion with UNFIIL were lightly injured yesterday evening, when a tank round from the Israeli side impacted inside their position south of Rmaich. They were evacuated to the UNIFIL hospital in Naqoura and their condition is stable. There was also extensive material damage to the position. There were six other incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side during the past 24 hours. This morning, Hezbollah opened small arms fire at a UNIFIL convoy consisting of two armored personnel carriers (APC) on the road between Kunin and Bint Jubayl. There was some damage to the APCs, but no casualties, and the convoy was obliged to return to Kunin.

UNIFIL's official mandate is to a) Confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon; b) Restore international peace and security; c) Assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area. If each of the press releases is read in their entirety is manifestly clear that UNIFIL is performing none of these authorized missions. Instead it has become a kind of ambulance and relief service for the killed and injured on the Lebanese side of the border. The releases are peppered with accounts of UNIFIL personnel escorting what are described as civilians and villagers to places of safety. This is not really part of its mandate, which is not to say that it is immoral or wrong.

All the incidents of IDF fire reported in the press releases are clearly related to some kind of nearby combat with the Hezbollah. In one case the IDF fired on a village into which the UNIFIL had gone, but rockets had originated from the vicinity of the village prior. In another case, an Israeli aerial bombardment detonated mines all around a UNIFIL position. Those mines were presumably not planted by UNIFIL, but they were so close to it that the UN position caught fire. The UN observation post in Maroun al-Ras was hit by artillery, but we know from press reports that Maroun al-Ras was the epicenter of heavy fighting and the location of a Hezbollah bunker complex. The UN even ran a convoy from the Hezbollah "capital" of Bint Jubayl to another area. Bint Jubayl is well known to be the target of an IDF attack. Yet the UN felt that it was possible to move convoys through such areas, albeit at considerable danger.

One reason that they could was that UNIFIL was evidently in contact with the IDF. In a sentence which speaks volumes we learn that "One unarmed UN military observer, a member of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL), was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the patrol base in the Marun Al Ras area yesterday afternoon. According to preliminary reports, the fire originated from the Hezbollah side during an exchange with the IDF. He was evacuated by the UN to the Israeli side, from where he was taken by an IDF ambulance helicopter to a hospital in Haifa." This strongly implies that UNFIL was able to coordinate their movements with the IDF and that the IDF was willing to risk men and aircraft to help UNFIL.

Now a lot will be made of UN positions being "clearly marked". However nearly all of the fire reported on UN positions with the exception of the July 23 indicident in Kiyam, where the 4 UN observers were killed today, were from artillery, which is an area weapon. Artillery, depending on the angle and range from which it is fired, has a certain dispersion even allowing for crew perfection. (In contrast UNIFIL took small arms fire from the Hezbollah between Kunin and Bint Jubayl and small arms can only be used when visual contact is made). Imperfections in s manufacture, operator error, barrel wear etc can cause an artillery round to fall off target. It is not called an area weapon for nothing. The one exception was a tank round that landed in a Ghanain position. But the firing was evidently not repeated which it would have had the tank gunner intended to destroy the Ghanaians.

The July 23 incident in Kiyam in "seven incidents of firing close to UN positions" involving aerial bombardment strongly suggests that Hezbollah positions were fairly close to the position of Observer Group Lebanon. It should be clear by now that the IDF had certainly not been deliberately targeting UNIFIL from July 17 to 25. How likely is it that the IDF after not aiming at UNIFIL should suddenly change their policy and aim to kill the observers at Kiyam, as categorically stated by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan?

One argument that will be heard is that since Israel has "precision weapons" the hit on the UN positions must have been deliberate. Yet it's far more likely that the UNIFIL position was hit by mistake. Even with "precision weapons" the IDF has lost 2 men and 5 wounded to friendly fire so far. The UK Herald had this story:

Israeli forces are investigating two "friendly fire" incidents in which two helicopter pilots died and five infantrymen from the elite Golani Brigade were wounded during fierce fighting in southern Lebanon over the past four days. ... Five Israeli soldiers were also wounded when an armed unmanned Israeli drone launched missiles against them in the same area on Sunday. The remote-controlled "killer drone" was halted by a desperate radio call as it was about to deliver a second salvo against the Golani infantrymen as they scattered for cover. An Israel Defence Force source said Hizbollah is fighting a Vietcong-style tunnel war in the scrub-covered hills around Bint Jbeil, using a network of underground routes and bunkers dug up to 130ft below the surface to move unseen and unscathed. "They know we have reconnaissance drones and satellite surveillance of the area, so they have taken to shifting squads around the sector by tunnel to avoid the risk of attracting airstrikes or artillery fire," he said. ... They are operating in squads of 10 to 12 men and they have an intimate knowledge of the terrain.

To recapitulate, the UNIFIL is running a kind of ambulance service on the Lebanese side of the border. That is not its official mission; it has failed in its official mission but its men are obviously performing with considerable perseverance and bravery. UNIFIL are able to run convoys in an area where the Hezbollah are shifting squads around while the IDF doing its best to kill the Hezbollah. Yet until July 26 the UNIFIL had not suffered any fatalities from IDF fire. Their sole serious injury to that date had actually been caused by the Hezbollah, and the injured UN trooper was evacuated by the IDF to an Israeli hospital.

The IDF has for its part avoided hitting UNIFIL or their civilian convoys despite its widely publicized use of artillery and air. Far from being random, the IDF is apparently able to create safe corridors in active battle zones through which UNIFIL can pass until the recent incident in Kiyam. There are probably very few military organizations in the world which can accomplish this. Nevertheless, the danger of friendly fire naturally remains. The two IDF personnel probably killed and five wounded from friendly fire is proof of that. The Canadian with UNIFIL was actually the second Canadian to die at Israeli hands in recent days. The first was a Canadian-born IDF pilot called Thom Farkas. CBC News reports:

At first, the army said human error or a technical malfunction caused the crash of the Apache helicopter. But it later reported Israeli artillery fire could have downed the chopper. Farkas was born in Canada, where his Israeli parents moved when they were young. He lived in the Toronto neighbourhoods of North York and Thornhill while growing up.

No one -- yet -- has accused Israel of deliberately firing upon itself. Considering the fact that UNIFIL peacekeeping mission was a dead-letter it should naturally be asked why Kofi Annan, as their ultimate commander has seen fit to keep them in a position of danger where their only chance of safety actually depends on accurate targeting by the IDF. Their positions are manifestly so close to the Hezbollah; their convoys so at risk at being confused with mobile Hezbollah forces that only by the grace of God and the accuracy of the IDF have fatalities been avoided until now. They were willing to take the risk. Annan was willing to make the hay. You be the judge of Kofi Annan's competence both in the care of his men and with respect to the accusation he has made against the IDF.

Certainly a more thorough and reasoned analysis than was engaged in by Kofi Annan.

[Nbadan]

Yeah those ers. At least muslims don't kill anyone by mistake. Maybe the Israelis should adopt that policy. Making any attempt to limit collateral damage seems to be doing them zero good, since critics can suggest that Israel is targeting civilians with a straight face. If Israel is targeting civilians, they are doing a piss-poor job of it since the ratio is less than one dead per bomb dropped.

You don't have to target civilians directly with munitions for there to be deadly consequences, for instance, Israel is attacking Lebanon's electrical supply and lines, its water and sanitation, and even ambulances and trucks carrying in relief food and medical aid.

The rocket attacks on Haifa are aimed at disrupting Israel's economy, after all, it is Israelis third largest city.

[cheguevara]

Yeah those ers. At least muslims don't kill anyone by mistake. Maybe the Israelis should adopt that policy. Making any attempt to limit collateral damage seems to be doing them zero good, since critics can suggest that Israel is targeting civilians with a straight face. If Israel is targeting civilians, they are doing a piss-poor job of it since the ratio is less than one dead per bomb dropped.

We are not talking about civilians but UN soldiers on a CLEARLY MARKED UN post.

It's just a huge communications error within the Israeli ranks but I don't see why they can't just apologize instead of being "outraged" by UN's insults

[Yonivore]

We are not talking about civilians but UN soldiers on a CLEARLY MARKED UN post.

It's just a huge communications error within the Israeli ranks but I don't see why they can't just apologize instead of being "outraged" by UN's insults

Apparently situated near a Hezbollah stronghold. Hanging out in a war zone near a bunch of terrorists is risky.

[MannyIsGod]

Regardless of the level of mistake that took place, bombing the UN bunker was obviously a mistake. You don't go around demanding aplogies after you kill 4 people like that and it was your fault. That is ing re ed.

[Yonivore]

Regardless of the level of mistake that took place, bombing the UN bunker was obviously a mistake. You don't go around demanding aplogies after you kill 4 people like that and it was your fault. That is ing re ed.

Not if it only serves to exacerbate the problem.

Those UNIFIL idiots had no business being there and, considering their checkered past with respect to Hezbollah, I can't say they deserve an apology anymore than any other innocent death. So, when would that stop?

Kofi Annan should be apologizing to the UN families for leaving them in Lebanon after the start of hostilities. That was the mistake.

[ChumpDumper]

Not if it only serves to exacerbate the problem.

How would apologizing for a dumbass mistake make things worse?

[Yonivore]

How would apologizing for a dumbass mistake make things worse?

I was talking the asinine statement by Kofi Annan. I think they were right to demand an apology from the Secretary General of the United Nations who, without any evidence, made the claim that Israel bombed the U.N. bunker on purpose.

Annan knows all UN employees, observers, and peacekeepers should have been evacuated at the onset of hostilities. It's his fault they're dead. Well, right behind Hezbollah's

[velik_m]

According to various media, between 350 and 390 people are reported dead. Additionally, there have been between 480 and 600 people wounded, and over 700,000 have been made refugees, with an unknown number of missing civilians in the south.[140][141][142][143]

Hezbollah acknowledges 27 killed.[144][145] [146] IDF Chief of Staff Lt. General Dan Halutz has claimed that close to 100 Hezbollah fighters have been killed at 22 July, in land fighting in South Lebanon.[147] However he provided no evidence for the claim.

if we take the the Israeli generous estimate: 100 of 350 were enemy, that leaves 250 civilian causalties. (71%)

* 32 Israeli soldiers have been killed (including one pilot, killed in a collision between two helicopters, and two in a shot down helicopter, also 4 sailors were killed after INS Hanit was hit), and 76 more wounded.[148][8]

* 19 civilians have been killed[5], while another 418 civilians were treated in hospitals, 19 of whom were seriously injured, and another 875 treated for shock.[6]

Hezbollah 32 of 51 were israeli soldiers, that leaves 19 civilian causalties (37%)

Now tell me which is terrorist organization?

either Israeli equipment is less acurate than Hezbollah's, or they don't care about (non-israeli) human lives.

(both quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Is...banon_conflict)

[ChumpDumper]

Feh. Don't bomb UN bunkers. That shoud be easy enough.

[MannyIsGod]

Feh. Don't bomb UN bunkers. That shoud be easy enough.

You would think.

[MannyIsGod]

With Israel, it is always someone elses fault. Always.

[cheguevara]

I was talking the asinine statement by Kofi Annan. I think they were right to demand an apology from the Secretary General of the United Nations who, without any evidence, made the claim that Israel bombed the U.N. bunker on purpose.

How the do you know they didn't have evidence? Obviously they had more than evidence that's why Anan was so pissed.

Israel don't have the right do demand , it's just a diplomatic tactic.

[Yonivore]

if we take the the Israeli generous estimate: 100 of 350 were enemy, that leaves 250 civilian causalties. (71%)



Hezbollah 32 of 51 were israeli soldiers, that leaves 19 civilian causalties (37%)

Now tell me which is terrorist organization?

either Israeli equipment is less acurate than Hezbollah's, or they don't care about (non-israeli) human lives.

(both quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Is...banon_conflict)

1) The battlefronts are in Southern Lebanon, therefore, you can expect most of the casualties to be incurred there.

2) Hezbollah's rocket barrages into Israel have all targeted civilian populations. It is only because the Israelis have prepared for these attacks and can retreat to bomb shelters that the Israeli civilian casualties aren't higher. It's certainly not for lack of trying on Hezbollah's part.

3) It's a war started by an act of aggression on the part of Hezbollah. There's no such thing as proportionate response during a war. There's only victory or defeat.

If you want to decrease civilian deaths in Southern Lebanon you should be calling for Hezbollah to cease hostilities, lay down their arms, and surrender unconditionally. At the very least you should be demanding they quit hiding behind Lebanese babies.

[Yonivore]

You would think.

The U.N.'s years-long record on the Israel-Lebanon border makes mockery of the term "peacekeeping." On page 155 of my book, "Inside the Asylum," is a picture of a U.N. outpost on that border. The U.N. flag and the Hezbollah flag fly side by side. Observers told me the U.N. and Hezbollah personnel share water and telephones, and that the U.N. presence serves as a shield against Israeli strikes against the terrorists.

[cheguevara]

1) The battlefronts are in Southern Lebanon, therefore, you can expect most of the casualties to be incurred there.

2) Hezbollah's rocket barrages into Israel have all targeted civilian populations. It is only because the Israelis have prepared for these attacks and can retreat to bomb shelters that the Israeli civilian casualties aren't higher. It's certainly not for lack of trying on Hezbollah's part.

3) It's a war started by an act of aggression on the part of Hezbollah. There's no such thing as proportionate response during a war. There's only victory or defeat.

If you want to decrease civilian deaths in Southern Lebanon you should be calling for Hezbollah to cease hostilities, lay down their arms, and surrender unconditionally. At the very least you should be demanding they quit hiding behind Lebanese babies.

I agree that Hezbollah are coward pieces of . But do you really beleive they will surrender someday?? no, they will fight to the death and to their kids deaths and to the kids of their kids deaths.

Yeah there might be a cease fire, but this "New Middle East" the US govmt is talking about is fantasy, they might as well bring in fairies and unicorns to the equation. I don't understand Israelis/US govmt, are they really that stupid to think this will end for good with the defeat of the Hezbollah?

or maybe they think the public is stupid enough to eat those lies.

[velik_m]

1) The battlefronts are in Southern Lebanon, therefore, you can expect most of the casualties to be incurred there.

2) Hezbollah's rocket barrages into Israel have all targeted civilian populations. It is only because the Israelis have prepared for these attacks and can retreat to bomb shelters that the Israeli civilian casualties aren't higher. It's certainly not for lack of trying on Hezbollah's part.

3) It's a war started by an act of aggression on the part of Hezbollah. There's no such thing as proportionate response during a war. There's only victory or defeat.

If you want to decrease civilian deaths in Southern Lebanon you should be calling for Hezbollah to cease hostilities, lay down their arms, and surrender unconditionally. At the very least you should be demanding they quit hiding behind Lebanese babies.

bottom line is Hezbollah who tries to kill civilians kills less civilians than Israel.

[Yonivore]

I agree that Hezbollah are coward pieces of . But do you really beleive they will surrender someday?? no, they will fight to the death and to their kids deaths and to the kids of their kids deaths.

Then so be it.

Yeah there might be a cease fire, but this "New Middle East" the US govmt is talking about is fantasy, they might as well bring in fairies and unicorns to the equation. I don't understand Israelis/US govmt, are they really that stupid to think this will end for good with the defeat of the Hezbollah?

There are other things in play. The rest of the Arab world is pressuring Syria to abandon it's lovefest with Iran.

One thing's for sure. Hezbollah's attacks will end with their defeat.

or maybe they think the public is stupid enough to eat those lies.

or maybe you can't see past the end of your nose on certain issues.

[Yonivore]

bottom line is Hezbollah who tries to kill civilians kills less civilians than Israel.

Only because they're inept. It's not for lack of trying.

[MannyIsGod]

Hezbollah attacks Isralie Army positions with rockets. The rocket attacks are not only aimed at cities.

[velik_m]

Only because they're inept. It's not for lack of trying.

the 32 dead israeli soldiers might argue against them being inept.