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Seriously, I don't what the to think. I wouldn't put it past Israel to do that, and yet I know Hezbollah uses civilians as shields. Personally I don't think there's any good going on over there.
A human rights group says the Israeli air strike on Qana that killed 54 civilians is a "war crime". .
Human Rights Watch accused the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) of treating southern Lebanon as a "free-fire zone".
It said the failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants could be judged as a war crime, and called for an UN probe into the conflict.[/COLOR]
Israel has insisted that Hezbollah sheltered in Qana and used it as a base to fire rockets across the border.
[COLOR=Blue]But Human Rights Watch called on a UN commission to investigate whether serious violations of international law had taken place during the conflict.
"The Israeli military seems to consider anyone left in the area a combatant who is fair game for attack,"[/COLOR] said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch.
"Such consistent failure to distinguish combatants and civilians is a war crime."
Shocking attack
The Israeli air strike on the southern Lebanese village of Qana in the early hours of Sunday killed at least 54 Lebanese civilians, mostly children.
The carnage has prompted international outrage and urgent diplomacy to bring about a ceasefire between Israel and militant group Hezbollah.
The IDF said in a statement that Qana had been used since the beginning of events as a "hideout" and a place from where approximately 150 rockets had been fired into Israel.
The IDF also said that residents in the village and surrounding areas were warned in advance to stay out of areas where rockets were being launched at Israel.
"Even after this tragic event, the cir stances of which are still being investigated, we appeal to the residents of southern Lebanon to distance themselves from terrorists, to distance themselves from launch areas, for their own safety," said Maj Gen Gadi Eizenkot.
Targets
The UN's emergency relief co-ordinator was highly critical of Israel's strike in Qana, calling it "indiscriminate and excessive".
But Jan Egeland refused to absolve Hezbollah of a share of the blame, reminding the group that using civilian areas as a base for military operations had long been "illegal and immoral".
"It has been so for 100 years, simply for the very reason that you make the women and children as much a target as you are yourself," Mr Egeland said.
However, Human Rights Watch said responsibility for Qana rested "squarely with the Israeli military".
"Just because the Israeli military warned the civilians of Qana to leave does not give it carte blanche to blindly attack," said Mr Roth. "It still must make every possible effort to target only genuine combatants.
Seriously, I don't what the to think. I wouldn't put it past Israel to do that, and yet I know Hezbollah uses civilians as shields. Personally I don't think there's any good going on over there.
There are no good guys here……. Both have innocent blood on their hands…
As in all wars. Are you suggesting the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed in Germany and Japan made Allied forces the equivalent of the Axis powers?
Lets stick to one war @ a time......... You wish to discuss some other war please make a thread and I will be happy to discuss it........
Why? You're making the proposition that because both sides are causing the deaths of innocents, both sides are in the wrong.
Name a war where the "right" side of the conflict did not cause the death of an innocent.
In World War II, we killed exponentially more innocent civilians (not to mention our own POW's and infantry in friendly fire) than the Axis powers did. Yet, I'd still like to think we were on the right side of that conflict.
Innocent people die all the time in war.
I don't see the UN crying about the innocent Israelis that are getting killed while all this is going on. Just a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
If you really want to get an idea of what I believe please read up on the “theory of just war”….. There are several great books dealing with the topic……..
Defending your nation against annihilation is a just war cause.
And, it would be helpful if you'd take your responses out of my quotes. That is, if you want me to bother responding to some of your points.
But, just so we understand one another, are you suggesting that if this were a "just war" the Lebanese deaths would be justified? Because, if that's the case, then we need to be arguing over the legitimacy of the war and not the body count, right?
My guess is that he finds the Arab resistance against Israel to be a just war.
Exactly what is Hezbollah "resisting?" Didn't Israel completely withdraw from Southern Lebanon six years ago with the understanding that the UN and Lebanon would disarm Hezbollah and pacify the border region? Yeah, thought so.
So why, exactly, is it called a resistance?
An Arab might argue the following:
In 1948, Western powers, including the British occupiers of Palestine, unilaterally decided to par ion the region of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. This was done to appease a group of Zionist settlers (and their worldwide Jewish and Christian allies), which had relocated into Palestine in the previous half-century, and organized themselves into a para-government.
In par ioning Palestine thusly, against the wishes of all Arab nations, native Arabs were displaced from their homes and livelihoods. These people had not tried to exterminate the Jewish people. They had not provoked a worldwide war. Yet they were forced to suffer the consequences of European guilt and were forcibly moved as a state for the Jews was created in their midst.
As such, the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the Palestinian nation and community of Arab nations has been lasting, grave, and certain. For 58 years, the Palestinian people have remained displaced and disallowed from returning to the homes, and have suffered ongoing attacks by the Jewish en y.
All other means of putting an end to this conflict have been shown to be impractical or ineffective. The Zionist en y will not willingly dismantle itself, and in fact the Western powers, most notably the United States, give it copious financial and military aid to maintain hegemony in the region.
There are serious prospects of success in this endeavor because Allah decrees it be so.
The use of arms in this conflict do not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. Compare the plight of Israelis today to those of the Palestinians.
Now, I disagree essentially with every bit of that, but for debating purposes...
I think I made it quite clear… There are no good guys in this war…….. Simple as that…
“Defending your nation against annihilation is a just war cause.”
Certainly but here we have two ppl making the same claim….. Both see the same land as “their nation”…”their homeland”…etc… so then who is right???
You of course would choose Israel and personally I could careless who controlled the land as long as peace resulted.
But I believe that the Arabs have a stronger claim to the land and one day will prevail and have “their holy land” back… Not because they are more just or because their claim is stronger but because they will never surrender Jerusalem…….
By what right does Israel control the land??? The British?? The UN?? God??
IMO it is none of the above, it is solely on their might… Just like everyone else..
Why? What has Israel done to deserve equal footing as Hezbollah?
Actually, you need to read your history and understand Hezbollah. They make no claim on the land currently called Israel. They are terrorists, pure and simple, dedicated to extermination of the Jews.
Well, seeing as how Israel is the rightful occupant of the land and they were attacked, peace will probably be achieved when Hezbollah cries uncle or breathes its last.
why do you believe that?
Because they are the recognized sovereign nation in that piece of geography. Gaza, West Bank, and Golan Heights aside for a moment -- can you name the property owners, in order of succession, going back a few thousand years? If so, you'll learn none of them were the nomadic "Palestinians" that have been kicked out of every neighboring Arab country since Israel made nation-state status.
In fact, Israel has been the kindest host to these band of troublemakers. Jordan damn near exterminated them while running them out of the Trans Jordan. Lebanon and Syria did the same. And Egypt didn't want them either. So, they settled in places like the Gaza and the West Bank and started making claims on the land that they had no right to make.
Along comes people like you who believe "Palestinians" actuallly existed before an Egyptian named Yassir Arafat came along and coopted the name for his motley crew.
To be factual, Israel resisted for a long time and, in the process, treated the "Palestinians" almost as bad as had the Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Egyptians -- but, in the end, international pressure forced them into trying to exchange land for peace with them as well.
So, after offering 95% of what the "Palestinians" demanded (Jerusalem off the table), Arafat, instead of taking it and continuing to negotiate the remaining 5% of the deal, declared another intifada and started killing Jews again. Israel continues to try and give the "Palestinians" a homeland (carved out of Israel) but, as has been said before, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and after completely withdrawing from Gaza last month, the "Palestinians" promptly kidnapped an Israeli soldier and killed an Israeli teenager. Go figure.
Hezbollah (probaby Iran and Syria, actually) decided it would be a good time to test the Norther front and invaded Israel from the North, killing 8 and kidnapping two.
And, there you are.
Hezbollah doesn't give a about the land, they want to finish what Hitler started.“Defending your nation against annihilation is a just war cause.”
Certainly but here we have two ppl making the same claim….. Both see the same land as “their nation”…”their homeland”…etc… so then who is right???
Sorry if you don't want to read it the way I have replied but it is easier for me this way....... Oh and thnx for laying out your opinion.... Although I may not agree with a lot of it I appreciate and respect your heart felt opinion
Last edited by ShackO; 08-01-2006 at 12:01 AM.
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