Jesus Camp

[Nbadan]

Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush -- these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer's Bible camp in North Dakota, "Kids on Fire," subject of the provocative new do entary, "Jesus Camp."

"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

"A lot of people die for God," one camper said, "and they're not afraid."

"We're kinda being trained to be warriors," said another, "only in a funner way."

ABC News

Check out these 'holy warriors' in their crusade to take back America and the world for Christ...

Jesus Camp Movie the trailer

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

If its worshipping George Bush then its a cult.

Christians shouldnt worship anything but God, the bible makes it very clear

If they distort the truth then its rubbish but it could be that the article is incorrect about the whole worshipping bush thing.

[Nbadan]

If they distort the truth then its rubbish but it could be that the article is incorrect about the whole worshipping bush thing.

I suspect that the movie will clear up any of your doubts that they worship an image of Bush43.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Im all for growing kids in the way that God wants us to live but having them go crazy coz of emotion is not a healthy thing. Following God is a choice and its a daily choice you have to make.

The trailer showed these kids full of emotion and didnt show any real teahcing or discipleship. People who think of christianity as a constant emotional high suddenly get dissappointed. They usually end up turning their back on God during the hard times coz they think its bad when they arent 'on a high emotionally'

Sure, Kids can make choices for Christ but it needs to be a lifelong choice and they should be discipled by friends and family.

Sorry, im just skeptical of anything that looks built on pure emotion. Thats what the trailer made it look like but the whole movie may shed a different light.

The whole 'us' against 'them' at ude isnt healthy either.

[Nbadan]

Watch the video clip on this ABC link. It shows the Kids worshipping a life-size Bush cut-out

[ChumpDumper]

Anything that makes dying funner is probably a good idea at this point.

[jochhejaam]

I suspect that the movie will clear up any of your doubts that they worship an image of Bush43.

The film has caused a split among evangelicals. Some say it's designed to demonize. Others have embraced it,

Other than the Harris editorial comment I didn't see anything about worshipping Bush.
If there was Bush worshipping going on I don't believe it would get more than .01% of support from evangelicals. (that would be those that make up the lunatic fringe that are in total disconnect with the teachings of Christ).

Being passionate > being apathetic. Impassioned is how Christ lived his life.

[Mr. Peabody]

Anything that makes dying funner is probably a good idea at this point.

[Spurminator]

Watch the video clip on this ABC link. It shows the Kids worshipping a life-size Bush cut-out

Watch it again. The video says kids are worshipping "to" a cutout of Bush... so either the article or the video is wrong, and I'm leaning towards the less sinister option in this case.

Worshipping "to" a cutout of President Bush is not the same as worshipping President Bush. That would be like equating the presence of an American flag in a church to worshipping that flag.

Now I will say it's a bit odd to have a cutout of the President in a worship assembly. I would definitely have a problem with any political indoctrination being associated with worship. I went to several conservative Church Camps growing up, and I was never told what to believe about abortion or sexuality. We were there for worship, Bible study, and fellowship among Christian peers.

I would imagine a do entary could have been made about our experiences at those camps as well, and I'm sure some moments would look strange to outsiders. But the result of those weeks I spent at camp was a spiritual rejuvenation like I've never experienced since. It would be a shame if that potential was being exploited in an attempt to create little Theocrats.

But I'll see the movie before making assumptions based on an article and video that don't even agree with each other.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't feel like starting a new thread, but John Hagee is going to be on Fresh Air talking about his new Christians United group. It airs at 11AM in SA and will be archived on npr.org. Should be interesting.

[Extra Stout]

Being passionate > being apathetic. Impassioned is how Christ lived his life.

False dichotomy. Christ also lived his life grounded in truth.

[cheguevara]

remember when good german christians would worship this image?

[jochhejaam]

False dichotomy. Christ also lived his life grounded in truth.

I assumed that went without saying.
Guess not.

[Extra Stout]

I assumed that went without saying.
Guess not.

The trailer showed these kids full of emotion and didnt show any real teahcing or discipleship.

A chronic problem among charismatics.

[leemajors]

i saw the trailer for this on tv the other day, it looked pretty spooky. not sure if it's the same trailer, but it was kinda a 3-5 minute preview of the movie - bucktoothed kids saying non-christians make them shudder.

[Ya Vez]

who cares it's a stupid movie...

[101A]

remember when good german christians would worship this image?

How about everybody agree to stop calling people with opposing views Nazis? Adolf Hitler and the German Nazi Party of the '30's and '40's were a personfication of evil quite possibly un-matched in human history. To equate those beliefs with people you debate on this board is an uncalled for insult to that person, an overreaching slander against our president or other politician or leader, and a diminution of the sacrifice miliions of people made to end his reign. It should be out of bounds for discussion here.

[Extra Stout]

remember when good german christians would worship this image?

No, but I remember when good German Christians were martyred by the Nazis for daring to oppose Hitler.

Thanks for annihilating your own credibility!

[Nbadan]

No, but I remember when good German Christians were martyred by the Nazis for daring to oppose Hitler.

The fact remains that the Nazi Regime also wrapped itself around religion, not that they were good or bad christians, which we all know, they were bad. Just that they malipulated some people's faith.

[RandomGuy]

Heh, a new take on the "what would Jesus do?" bit.

(mental image of Jesus eating smores and telling ghost stories)

I betcha those would be some darn tasty smores.

[RandomGuy]

Watch it again. The video says kids are worshipping "to" a cutout of Bush... so either the article or the video is wrong, and I'm leaning towards the less sinister option in this case.

Worshipping "to" a cutout of President Bush is not the same as worshipping President Bush. That would be like equating the presence of an American flag in a church to worshipping that flag.

Now I will say it's a bit odd to have a cutout of the President in a worship assembly. I would definitely have a problem with any political indoctrination being associated with worship. I went to several conservative Church Camps growing up, and I was never told what to believe about abortion or sexuality. We were there for worship, Bible study, and fellowship among Christian peers.

Blind faith in Bush on the part of some would explain a lot...

[Phenomanul]

The actual article is actually quite biased....

Film Shows Youths Training to Fight for Jesus
New Do entary Features Controversial Bible Camp, Evangelical Movement
By DAN HARRIS
Sept. 17, 2006 — - An in-your-face do entary out this weekend is raising eyebrows, raising hackles and raising questions about evangelizing to young people.

Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush -- these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer's Bible camp in North Dakota, "Kids on Fire," subject of the provocative new do entary, "Jesus Camp."

"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

"A lot of people die for God," one camper said, "and they're not afraid."

"We're kinda being trained to be warriors," said another, "only in a funner way."

The film has caused a split among evangelicals. Some say it's designed to demonize. Others have embraced it, including Fischer, who's helping promote the film.

"I never felt at any point that I was exploited," Fischer said.

"I think there is a push right now in a lot of evangelical churches to definitely keep the teenagers and keep the children in the faith," said Heidi Ewing, co-director of "Jesus Camp." "And this is one version of that attempt."


A Growing Movement

This camp is, by many accounts, a small -- and perhaps extreme -- slice of what some say is a growing, intensifying evangelical youth movement.

Over the past decade and a half, enrollment at Christian colleges is up 70 percent. Sales of Christian music are up 300 percent. Tens of thousands of youth pastors have been trained.

Young people are targeted through Christian music festivals, skateboard compe ions and rodeos.

"This is an enormous youth movement," said Lauren Sandler, a secular, liberal feminist from New York City who spent months among the believers researching her new book, "Righteous."

Sandler says the evangelical youth movement will have a negative impact on the country's future, because even the most moderate young evangelicals are inflexible on issues such as abortion and gay marriage.

"It's an absolute, straight-up us-against-them," Sandler said. "It's, you're either with us or you're against us. … Not only are you a sinner, but you are working for the enemy -- the enemy being Satan."

Chap Clark, an associate professor at the Fuller Theological Seminary who's trained youth pastors for decades, said people who see "Jesus Camp" should not come away with the idea that evangelizing to youth consists mainly of political indoctrination.

Clark said youth pastors focus much more on providing meaning to kids who can't find it in a materialistic culture or in their family lives -- "which is going to translate into much healthier adults who are more able to be into respectful dialogue and come alongside people who disagree with them.

"I think this is a very hopeful time because of the youth ministry movement," he added.

There's disagreement about whether this movement is good for the country and whether the movie is an accurate portrayal of the movement.

But there's growing agreement that these children will have a real impact. One child in "Jesus Camp" goes so far as to say, "We're a key generation to bringing Jesus back."

I guess only she is allowed to make absolutist statements.

[Nbadan]

"It's an absolute, straight-up us-against-them," Sandler said. "It's, you're either with us or you're against us. … Not only are you a sinner, but you are working for the enemy -- the enemy being Satan."

So there is flexibility on social issues like abortion and gay-marriage from evangelicals? I thought so.

[Extra Stout]

So there is flexibility on social issues like abortion and gay-marriage from evangelicals? I thought so.

Sure, every person opposed to abortion or gay marriage regards those with differing opinions as Satan! That's not a hyperbolic misrepresentation at all!

[Extra Stout]

I'm so glad that secular, liberal feminists are around to inform us that having political positions based upon morals and ethics grounded in religious faith makes us mouth-breathing theocrats! I don't know why I was ever concerned that a lot of liberals take "freedom of religion" to mean "elimination of any and all religious influence from any facet of public discourse!"

And I'm so glad such accuracy in that full article! Because we all know that the most extreme elements of a movement can be conflated with the entire movement. All Christian youth groups are the same as one in North Dakota that may be worshipping around a cutout of George W. Bush!

Just like everybody left of center is exactly the same as Joseph Stalin!