I hate this ing issue.
it is an emotional and divisive issue with no damn solution. It has totally ed up the Republican party.
Personally, I am Republican on at least 75% of the issues but feel strongly that it is a choice between the woman, her doctor, and god.
Funny...I have polled my entire immediate family...from the grandparents, to myself and my wife, and my son we all believe in the right of a woman to choose...
ironically, the only "fertile" womb in the bunch belongs to my daughter and she is adamantly pro life.
this political stance has had some unusual side effects. One of them is that my pocket knife is the sharpest it has ever been in my lifetime.
Unfortunately my daughters boyfriend may be too ing dumb to understand why I always stare at him while I sharpen it...
I'm with you Cowboy. Regardless of what I believe, I think it is the right of all women to choose what to do with their body. So, when I get labled a "blind Republican" , I take exception with it. Does anyone who backs Kerry believe "everthing" he does? Does that make them bad Democrats? I think not. It's called the ability to think for one's self.
Another pro-choice. While I don't think I could ever have one, I do not judge anyone that does. I have had family members that have and that's a decision they have to live with.
That dude is still around? Maybe you need a bigger knife???
*sigh*That dude is still around? Maybe you need a bigger knife???
still around...at least he has a real job now...the main thing is that he is still VERY scared of me...
I oppose abortion, because after conception, it's not her "body" but another person. DNA proves it. Terminating the other person willingly is, well...murder. It's so 'black and white' to me.
I don't judge people who have had abortions, but I do try to persuade or at least educate a little better those who are adamantly pro-choice.
When adoption is an option, abortion seems so cruel, cold, and heartless.
If the life of the mother is in jeopardy, or if the woman became pregnant with a rapist (microscopic statistically) , then I think the line of, "between the woman, her doctor, and God" comes into play a little, although I'm still for courageously fighting for the unborn. And if the life of the mother is in jeopardy, does the line from Jesus, "There is no greater gift you can give than to lay down your life for a friend" mean anything?. I mean, this isn't even a friend, this is a son or daughter!! I understand the decision may be a excruciatingly difficult one, but there is a right decision and a wrong decision.
Last edited by NeoConIV; 10-28-2004 at 06:30 PM.
I'm pro-choice, with some reservations. I don't think it should be used as just another form of easy birth control. I think it should be an option...just not an easy one. It should be viewed as what it is...an extreme option...not a convenient out for irresponsibility.
At the same time...there are certainly plenty of people in this world that have no business having children, and I don't think the issue should be forced...it's easy to say put the child up for adoption...but I don't think that gurantees the child to be better off...in some cases he might be worse off.
It's not an easy issue, I lean to the left on most domestic issues...where I am a true conservative is in the area of foreign policy. Sometimes war is necessary.
I hate this topic, only because no one wins.
What this world needs is a reproductive-system stun gun.
Fill in your own technical details; I'm just an idea guy.
ETA: Birth control pills don't count.
Last edited by Guru of Nothing; 10-28-2004 at 08:45 PM.
Excellent posts from all.
This is where I've gone round and round with some on this board.
I believe life begins at conception and that abortion is wrong.
Having two daughters and seen the early sonograms...well words could not describe it.
But I too believe this is an issue that the woman needs to resolve with herself, her doctor and her God.
Yeah, I've known people that have used it as a form of birth control. I don't get that at all. Birth control is not hard to come by, be it the drugstore or Planned Parenthood.
Sometimes I wonder if people need a license to be a parent. No, I'm not saying I wish it were like that, just thinking out loud so don't jump down my throat. I'm not saying I'm the best parent in the world, but until my kids are out of the house, they come first. IMO, what's wrong with kids today is that 'children' are having children and aren't and don't know how to raise them. I had my first kid at 27 and even at that age it's overwhelming at first. I can only imagine what it's like for a teenager.
However, if my kids decide to make me a grandmother in the next 5 years, you can bet your ass that they will be involved in that child's life. He did the crime, he's gonna do the time.
maybe...but who are you to tell someone what they can and can't do? I don't mean that to be snotty, although I am sure it comes across as such. I respect your beliefs as well as everyone else's here. My point is simply that we have the right to believe as we want but we do not have the right to try and impose our beliefs on others.but there is a right decision and a wrong decision
Amen. Well said.At the same time...there are certainly plenty of people in this world that have no business having children, and I don't think the issue should be forced...it's easy to say put the child up for adoption...but I don't think that gurantees the child to be better off...in some cases he might be worse off.
I ... agree with whottt. A first.
In the last major abortion thread blowout a few months ago, I made the point that I do not want to legislate abortion as illegal. Like prohibition, it will only exacerbate the problem. I always seek the hearts and minds when I debate this issue. I'm absolutely not for banning abortion by government mandate, though I don't think my tax dollars should be going to abortion mills where hundreds and hundreds of unborn babies daily come to the end of the road.
As far as 'unfit' parents, I find this arguement very disheartening. Folks, we're ALL unfit to be parents of God's children. I've lost count of all the times I've made some pretty ty decisions as a father of my two wee ones. I've lost count of the times I've thougt about myself first before my wife and kids. But to not even give the kid a CHANCE, I just don't get that rationale. With God all things are possible. Period. It's glass half empty view. Yes, the kid might go through hardships. Maybe even unbearable hardships, but that too, will pass.
What I don't get is that if you believe that life begins at conception, that makes the termination of that life murder. Do you believe that murder is a "decision between the that person, a doctor and God?" Why is a child any different?
My opinion doesn't come from religion or my beliefs, I was pro-life long before I was Christian. My opinion comes from the simple fact that you are terminating a life. For me it came down to whether that baby is an individual, not just some clump of cells, science says it is (see below). Whether an individual has a right to live, is that not guaranteed in our Cons ution? And whether any other person has a right to terminate that life, murder is against the law, is it not? In my humble opinion, a person's choice ends when it infringes on another's rights.
I found a pretty good article on this when we discussed this last time that I think bears repeating in this thread..
http://www.all.org/abac/dni003.htm
I don't think it comes down to trying to press my beliefs on someone else, I think it comes down to defending the rights of an innocent to live and I'll do that without shame til the day I die.
I think abortion is a battle to be fought on an individual basis. I don't really agree with it and hope that I never have to face being a party to it. I believe that with education and the proper use of birth control abortion is unecessary. I do however know that in certain instances, for certain people, it may be their only option. I guess I believe in a woman's choice. I feel like it should be the father's choice as well. I think in the future it won't be needed and will be looked on as an archiac relic from the past.
I do believe that life begins at conception and that you are killing a life.
But to terminate the pregnancy is a decision that the mother (and father) will have to live with for the rest of her life.
I cannot make that decision for her is what I'm trying to say.
I respect what you are saying Jane, but if someone goes up to someone else and say "I belive abortion is wrong and you are wrong if you believe otherwise" that is trying to press a belief on someone else (I am not saying you do this but people on both sides of the issue have) You believe life begins at conception...others don't. You believe abortion is wrong...others don't. We live in a country that allows people to think how they want. We don't have to agree but we do have to respect others beliefs, whether we agree or not. Sadly, people on both sides of this issue tend not do that.
I still don't understand these arguments... OK, say you commit a murder, nobody knows about it, nobody notices the victim is gone, in other words, it is as you say, it's between you, that victim and God. Is it not still wrong?? If you found out someone else had done this, would you not want justice done or would you say, "Oh well, that person will have to live with what they have done."??
That is just it....we don't have to understand. Its Joe's indivdual belief.
I guess the question at this point is when does a belief that is supported by scientific evidence become more than just a belief?
Also, where do you draw the line? Some people say when the baby is viable.. what does that mean? Viability of a baby changes as technology changes, so does that mean that baby doesn't have a right to live unless our technology gets better?
I have no voice Joe. Will you fight for me?
Thank you pro-life movement!! Thank you for choosing me!
So why does this mother get to make this choice again? I'm still confused on your position....
Therin lies the problem....for every question that is answered, 2 or 3 more get asked. For every credible piece of evidence pointing one way, I have seen one pointing the other. Maybe right now, we don't have technology to accurately determine it.
Beliefs don't necessarily have to be proven. I may believe that the wind is caused by a big fan on God's desk....its outrageous, it has been proven otherwise but if I really want to believe that, I have that right.
My point is this. We can believe however we choose and we do not have the right to try and impose those beliefs on others. I agree that Abortion is a dangerous practice with serious physical and emotional effects on everyone involved and should not be used as a form of birth control. If it were illegal, then I would support enforcement of that law. Right now, its not. I support a womans right to choose and I have that right. Don't disrespect me by trying to change my beliefs.
Yes, I do think abortion is wrong but the fact is that it is NOT illegal in the US therefore it cannot be prosecuted as murder.
But yes, I do think abortion is wrong.
Disrespect you? Huh? We're just presenting the pro-life arguement. Sorry if you felt disrepected. No disrespect intended.
One last note before I scoot to work:
This new 'respectable sounding' fallacy, 'between a woman, her doctor, and her God'...notice who has been conveniently left out of that equation?
Vile.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
