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the spurs are too old to rebound
We've always been a ty free throw shooting team and that seems like it's never gonna change
What I'm more concerned about is our rebounding
We're probably gonna be ranked 30th in the league in terms of second chance points at the rate we're gettin killed on the boards.
We pulled even with Dallas on the boards but got murdered to the Cavs as they crashed the boards time and time again
Either Duncan needs to average 18 boards a game or someone else is gonna have to step up to carry the load
I say get oberto the out of there and onto the IR list and bring in Butler.
He may not be our primary rebounding answer, but we have to do SOMETHING out there.
the spurs are too old to rebound
Agree completely. Even in the Dallas game we only tied them with rebounding because they had 12 more misses than us (including missed 2nd ft rbs). We were still dominated on the boards.
No team has every won a ring with subpar rebounding. Losing the 2nd chance point battle forces you to play extremely efficient on offense (which we can't because of ft shooting), saps a teams energy (as you have to chase them around on D for more possesions and little guys have to unnaturally throw themsleves into the paint, like Gino does in big games), and is more demoralizing than getting dunked on.
Last edited by Nero; 11-04-2006 at 01:56 AM.
Bowen is sub-par in rebounds for a SF. Can't move him out. Tim's gonna do what he can at his age and with 2" elevation on his good nights.
So it will have to come from center--Oberto or Elson. Butler won't get enough playing time to matter.
Why is that? I hope you're not right, cause that's the only hope I had left.
Just check numbers :
Spurs were an average rebounding team last year, not a bad one. Spurs weren't outrebounded on the whole season.
Spurs won't really be a worse rebounding team this year than last year. They have lost Rasho + Nazr who average conbined 9.1 rbds in 36.3 min that is to say 10 rbds/40 min. Last season, Oberto : 10 rbds/40 min, Elson : 8.6 rbds/40 min, Butler : 9.9 rbds/40min.
If Spurs aren't a top rebounding team, blame it mainly on the fact that Spurs lack of a strong rebounder at PG/SG/SF. Our best perimeter rebounders average 5 rbds/40 min and it's very weak.
For reference Spurs last year production by position compared to opponents production :
PG : - 0.4 rbds
SG : + 0.6 rbds
SF : - 1.3 rbds
PF : + 1.9 rbds
C : + 0.4 rbds
Nice stats Bruno. I'd bet that we were worse last year than the year before (ring year), and we'll be even worse this year, due to increased age of TD, Bowen, Horry, Manu, and even Barry and Finley. Oberto's 10/40min is nice, but I don't even think he suited to play 1 min/game and not sure about Butler. Elson seems to be the one that should get teh bulk of the minutes, but unfortunately he's the poorest rebounder of the three.
Thanks.
Defensive rebounds % :
2006 : 74.2
2005 : 73.6
2004 : 74.6
Offensive rebounds % :
2006 : 26.0
2005 : 29.1
2004 : 29.5
Biggest difference between 05 and 06 is the lack of offensive rebounds.
You can mainly explain it by :
- Duncan and Manu offensive rebounds have droped. I guess it's mainly because of their injuries.
- Nazr and Rasho offensive rebounds have droped.
Nice analysis Bruno.
I'd like to try Butler for Oberto for a while and see what happens, but we must also remember that it's only 2 games into the season, and we sucked on a back-to-back - 15/19 losses last year were on back-to-backs!!! Now that's also a powerful stat!
Edit - Ludden's article says 10/19 losses from back-to-backs, where the telecast said 15. I'm inclined to think Ludden's research is better than Hubie's. Still, btbs are a problem for us. I wonder what the league-wide btb stats are like?
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 11-04-2006 at 09:18 AM.
Me too but I don't think that the bigman rotation is set for this year.
Bottomline is that Pop need to find 3 or 4 productive bigs (among the 6 bigs Spurs have) for the playoffs to play with Duncan. Pop has played with a 3 bigs rotation in previous playoff but he will maybe play with a 4 bigs rotation this year given the low quality of Spurs' bigs.
After 2 games we can say :
Elson and Horry will likely be in the rotation, Oberto not.
That makes 3 productive bigs (Duncan, Elson, Horry), Pop still needs to find one.
Bonner did okay in Toronto - , he shot 44% from 3 without Duncan!
Butler, well he held his own in 13mins a night last year for NYK, and I hope to see him in the rotation soon.
This loss gives Pop the excuse to send Oberto down and bring up Butler w/o pissing off Manu. Our rebounds sucked last night and everyone could see Oberto was outgunned.
The situation is quite different than last year. Last year, it was clear that Oberto/Marks were Spurs 5th and 6th big. This year, There is no abvious ranking of Spurs bigs behind Duncan and that's why I think that Spurs big rotation isn't set.
Bonner and Butler will have a chance to prove what they are worth at a moment of the season because they deserve to have a chance unlike marks and rookie Oberto last year (as RuffnReadyOzStyle said).
Rebounding was a HUGE issue last season (as discussed at various times in this forum); it was a HUGE deal in the Dallas series (as they repeatedly crushed the Spurs on the glass in each game); and it looks like it will again be an issue this season. As evidenced by the way the Cavs smoked them on the glass.
I am one that does not think Oberto can thrive in the starting rotation. He's active and he hustles, but isn't quick enough to routinely beat his defender to the glass.
Once Elson takes his spot, I trust we'll see an improvement in the rebounding numbers.
However, it will be interesting to monitor the rebounding numbers for improvement.
Rebounding on the season is bull .
How about Spurs rebounding vs the top 4 teams in each conference, the teams we meet in the playoffs?
That the Spurs can hold their own on the boards against the bottom 10 teams in each conference is stat padding.
Look at the playoff rebounding. Didn't the Spurs get outrebounded in all but one playoff game last year?
Spurs have been outrebounded by Bonzi Wells against Sacramento, it's not like they will play against that knid of players everygames/ playoff series.
Spurs have played with Finley at C against Dallas : it's logical that you are outrebounded in that case.
That's why we do have Bonner out there.
Kori you should know that - you are a big fan of this guy
Pop has once again trusted his old ways by releasing veterans as if this were 90's style basketball. Oberto, Bonner, Barry, and I hate to say it maybe even Horry have gotsta go. Butler, White, and Vaughn need to get some playing time. Pop wants to wait???? For what to freeze over and The Spurs to lose 20 more games. Oberto was a big stiff last night like I knew he would be. The guys doesn't move, blink, stare, breathe, more less rebound. Why is he on the court, on the Spurs, in the NBA????????????? Horry also got outrebounded but the poor guy has a lot of heart left and no gas left in his tank. I can't single out poor Rob. I have just seen reality. Jacky B. needs playing time NOW not tommorrow NOW. OBERTO (Qasimoto) has gotsta' go yesterday. Don't ever come back to the NBA, pick up a guitar or do something else. James White needs to be out there instead of Washed up Barry. We are goingf to get stomped day in and day out with this ridiculous rotation we have now. WE ARE TOOOOOOOO OLD. We need young guys that can rebound for Timmy.
Funny that nobody picked on Bruce. I guess he is untouchable from criticism. But look at the stats above--for the season our SF is a MINUS 1.6 compared to the opposition.
Even as small as our PGs are, there isn't that big a differential.
Bruce is a hard worker and always tries to improve his game. Somebody (Pop) ought to be on his ass about rebounds. He'll go to work on it.
Finally, we may be in for a long season if the current centers continue to get outrebounded night after night, especially against quality teams. Nazr and Rasho had their faults, but they were OK rebounders. Nazr was especially good with ORs.
Bonner isn't a good rebounder. (And I'm not a Bonner fanThat's why we do have Bonner out there.
Kori you should know that - you are a big fan of this guy).
We need James (Superman) White.
That guy can jump over buildings!
Look--
Up in the sky!
Its a bird!
Its a plane!
ITS SUPER SPUR TO THE REBOUNDING RESCUE!!
Just a little irony (sarcasm) KoriBonner isn't a good rebounder. (And I'm not a Bonner fan
Put in James White and our FT% is cured.
"Somebody (Pop) ought to be on his ass about rebounds."
I remember early/before the 05/06 season Bruce saying he had been told to increase his rebounding. Didn't help much.
He doesn't score, he's infamously bad at FTs (but he doesn't take many), so defense and RB are really the only two big contributions he can make.
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