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how big is sandizkid?
To have any shot at winning a le this season.
Until we get that player Pop is going to continue with his 4 shooting guards and Duncan lineups and cost us games.
Every time we lose a game the culprit is a big athletic SF who creates matchup problems for us...whether he is lined up as a traditional SF, or if he is being played at the PF position forcing Pop into his small :puke: ball lineup.
We need a long SF who goes about 230 and 6'8 minimum that can play D, keep up with athletic players, and rebound.
Viktor Kyrhapa is making noises about PT in Chicago...he makes a minimum salary...the Bulls need to move him to fill their own needs. We need to make something happen here and Kyrhapa is probably the best available piece IMO.
This team, as it is constructed now, will not win the NBA championship this year.
We will continue to be done in in individual matchups by the Josh Howard's, the Lamar Odom's and Luke Walton's, the Donyell Marhsall's, the Bonzie Wells' and Ron Artest's....and LeBron James', TMac's and Carmelo Anthony's...etc.
This team will continue to lose games to coaches and teams that can play defense and that force Pop into a matchup contest using big SF types...due to rebounding more than anything else.
And BTW, the Lakers will continue to give us problems this season and for the foreseeable future until we close that hole...they have almost an entire team of big SF types.
Last edited by whottt; 12-11-2006 at 02:30 PM.
how big is sandizkid?
He's the right height but he's too young and too skinny. He makes Barry look like Shaq.
Pull another con job on Isiaha and get David Lee -- , give him Butler back.
It's obvious that Spurs lack a long SF and it's even not really new. I don't know if Spurs are really looking for one, they have signed Linton Johnson in 05 and some long SFs have been invited for training camp (Melzer, Jamar Smith, Jawad Williams..) but the last long SF who really played with a Spurs jersey was Hedo in 04 (I don't count Glenn Robinson in 05 because he hasn't played a lot). Spurs have spend more than 2 years without a long SF, I'm not sure that getting one is a priority for them.
I'm not sure that Spurs can't win a le without a long SF. In 05 they have won the le without one. The need for a long SF depends a lot on who Spurs will face in playoffs and we will know better what teams are really dangerous in 1 or 2 months.
I cut past a list of long SF who can be available for cheap that I've made in another thread :
Joey Graham
Viktor Khryapa
Ronald Dupree
Bernard Robinson
Allan Anderson
Linton Johnson
Matt Barnes
James Singleton
Maurice Evans
Jumaine Jones
I like Viktor Khryapa but I don't think that Spurs should give a lot to get him because he isn't a great talent. Bulls biggest need is a low post scorer, I can see them being interested in Scola but I'm not ready to give up Scola only for Khryapa. However, Udrih + Eric Williams + Scola for Khryapa + Duhon can be a very good deal for Spurs and I think that Bulls cna do it if they are high on Scola.
Rashard Lewis?
Parker+Barry+1st for Watson+Lewis?
whottt's argument isn't very convincing, though.
Okay, so you need Ron Artest. Is there a single other player in the NBA who meets all of those qualifications? Oh, wait, he's only 6-7.
Also the Shaqs, Yaos, and Boykinses.We will continue to be done in in individual matchups by the Josh Howard's, the Lamar Odom's and Luke Walton's, the Donyell Marhsall's, the Bonzie Wells' and Ron Artest's....and LeBron James', TMac's and Carmelo Anthony's...etc.
Last edited by Bob Lanier; 12-11-2006 at 03:28 PM.
There are dozens of them....it's probably the deepest position in the NBA right now...the Spurs not having one is the aberration in the league.
And Artest may be only 6'7(if he's even that tall, I thought he was 6'5) but he weighs 260 something lbs which makes him a tough guard for Manu, Bowen, Finley or Barry...
If you watched the Spurs more you wouldn't be so clueless as to why this is a dire need.
Shaq is done, Yao can be run off the court and Boykins is the guy you want shooting...
Also the Shaqs, Yaos, and Boykinses.
If Viktor Khryapa is the answer, don't tell me the question. This guy is definitely not preventing us from getting a championship. What we're lacking is the bowling-ball, do-everything wrecker like Josh Howard, who can defend, knock down shots, and pull offensive boards. The Russian is definitely not fast enough to be any of those things.
Our only hope at this point is to pull a guy in next year's draft or hope some young team with a glut of SFs, like Atlanta now that Marvin is back, can be convinced to let some of their talent go.
Otherwise, we're not repairing this team on the fly, not with the assets we have.
And I don't like the Duhon+Khryapa for Udrih+Scola trade. Duhon simply makes too much money for a backup point guard.
Teams are exploiting that weakness more now...last year we were doing good to get by the Kings.
As for it depending on who we meet in the post season...it's not which team has one of those types, it's which team doesn't....
A guy that is too big for Manu, Bowen, Finley or Barry...and too quick for any of our 6'10+guys...
You look at the teams we are likely to meet in the post season and they all have at least one of those types of players...whether it be Dallas, LA, Denver, Phoenix, Houston or Utah.
Bruce can do a decent job on most of them but a lot of those guys already have someone that's going to be drawing Bruce.
LA has Odom, Walton etc...
Phoenix has Amare(I know Amare is a true PF but he's still got the quickness) , Diaw...and others.
Dallas has Howard and Nowitzki(we can only put Bruce on one of them).
Denver has Melo(who no one for the Spurs has been able to guard).
Houston has TMac and Bonzi.
It's a problem....
I'll tell you right now we won't be getting past the Rockets unless we get someone to put on Bonzi. And he'll be there come playoff time unless the Rockets just get stupid.
u need Dermarr Johnson
GK hates him, we love himhe would shine under Pop
Kyrhapa can rebound and defend on the perimeter very well. And he hustles his butt off...
Hey a few years ago Steve Kerr was the answer....sometimes it's just a little thing that can make a big difference.
We have a gap on roster of certain bodytype of player which Pop counters by putting a ty 4 guard lineup on the floor....resulting in us getting outrebounded more than anything else....but also posted up at the guard and swing spots....
Kyrhapa can solve that problem well enough to where it's no longer an achilles heel...he'd be getting more minutes if he didn't play for a team which has 35 SF's on it playing ahead of him.
I'll agree with Whott on this one. To me the question is, why did we let Linton Johnson go? I know he's not great but he seemed to have the right size and at ude.
I feel like Finley is a noose around our neck. Pop doesn't have the balls to not play him because he busts his ass in practice or whatever. And because Finley is playing that means that we can't develop a young player right now, which is the time to do it.
I'd like to see this empire continue, and not all of a sudden collapse from old age.
"In the year two thou-sand"
Linton JohnsonWe need a long SF who goes about 230 and 6'8 minimum
Height: 6-8 Weight: 225
I remember him being injured and somehow ended up on the nets. What happened to him?
Spurs just let him go....he was still a project then with no offensive game, but he has developed a bit since then and it appears his offense could serve the team in a spot up shooting role if nothing else.
I'd be quite happy to get LJIII...I'd be quite happy to get anyone that's 6'8-9 and under the age of 30.
I'd be happy to have some kind of true SF on the team even if it's just a third string guy.
This 4 2 guard rotation is starting to become a consistent matchup problem that teams are attacking...plus they know it will force Pop into putting a lineup out there that fundamentally changes the Spurs D scheme...thus fundamentally changing the Spurs, for the worse.
I think he plays for the Hornets now...
This is what you said you need:
Players who are minimum 6'8" and 230 lb. are called power forwards. There are a number of 6'8"+ players who play the 3, but only a handful of those are anywhere near 230 lb. There are a number of 230 lb. 3s in the NBA, but few of them is close to 6'8". Of those in either category, only a fraction can play decent defense or "keep up with athletic players".We need a long SF who goes about 230 and 6'8 minimum that can play D, keep up with athletic players, and rebound.
The point is that you listed a ridiculous collection of 2s, 3s, and 4s, some of whom score on the block, some slashing from the wing, and some with spot-up jumpshots (along with players like Luke Walton and Donyell Marshall who nobody should be worrying about). No player in the modern NBA with the possible exception of Ron Artest could be expected to do an able job of guarding all those players.Shaq is done, Yao can be run off the court and Boykins is the guy you want shooting...
Joey Graham is a very nice prospect who would probably fit what you're looking for if you were more honest about it, but I doubt Toronto would be willing to let him go.
, pick up Delfino from Detroit. He's 6-7, 225, can do a halfway decent job on about half the players you mentioned, and it's no secret that Flip doesn't particularly care for his game. But he's a 2, not a 3, and he's not terribly long.
What happened to Eric Williams, anyway? He's not working out, or is he just done?
To be honest, I really like Joey Graham out of that list. He has the talent to be the answer for a long, athletic rebounder and defender. I think he hasn't been coached up enough in Toronto and has lost some confidence.
With the "Euro" craze that Colangelo is going through, I figure we could get him for the rights to Scola and the expiring contract of Williams.
To me, there are two differents cases :
- Teams with a quick PF (Dallas, LA, Phoenix)
- Teams with a strong SF (Denver, Houston, Utah)
Against teams with a quick PF, the choice is between Elson/Oberto or the long SF who played at PF.
I'm not sure that Parker/Manu/Bruce/Khryapa/Duncan is a better lineup than Parker/Manu/Bruce/Elson/Duncan against a team like Mavs. Khryapa can maybe do a slighty better job an Dirk than Elson but Elson can do a better job at rebounding than Khryapa. Against teams with a quick PF, Spurs are better than last year because Oberto/Elson is a quicker combo than Rasho/Nazr.
Against teams with a strong SF, Spurs are in trouble when Bruce is out. I think that a player like Khryapa can really be usefull againstMelo or elbron.
It's not sure that Bonzi will still be with Rockets at the trade deadline, rumors are JVG is fed up with him.
And when you look more closely, Spurs can't put a long SF against Bonzi :
Rockets lineup will be Alston/Wells/TMac/Battier(or Hayes or Howard)/Yao.
Parker can only defend on Alston, Duncan won't defend on yao except in the fourth quarter and will mainly defend on the opposite PF. The best matchup left for Manu is Wells.
Raptors are really stacked at PF, I don't think they are interested in Scola. Draft picks seems to be the more appealing things for them.
False...LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony are not PF's.
You are just messed up by what a lot of teams currently play at the PF slot...
Lamar Odom is a true SF. I'd say that's what Dirk's true position is as well. Shawn Marion is a true SF as well.
The point is that you listed a ridiculous collection of 2s, 3s, and 4s, some of whom score on the block, some slashing from the wing, and some with spot-up jumpshots (along with players like Luke Walton and Donyell Marshall who nobody should be worrying about). No player in the modern NBA with the possible exception of Ron Artest could be expected to do an able job of guarding all those players.
Also false....and from the Spurs POV, just about anyone bigger than 6'7 and 210 could do it for the Spurs without a built in physical disadvantage.
We have no SF on our roster...I guess Eric Williams. What we have is a collection of 2 guards doing stop gap on what has traditionally been known as a SF. And it hurts us.
What happened to Eric Williams, anyway? He's not working out, or is he just done?
Pop doesn't play him...which means he could have the talent of Jordan but if Pop doesn't play him and elects instead to go with 2guards playing PF...we will continue to get ourrebounded and outmuscled at that position and we will continue to lose.
All the players I mention are bigmen with smallman's athelticism...what has been traditionally in the NBA the most athletic and versatile position on the court....the SF. Whether it be Bonzi or Tmac....calling themselves a 2 guard, or not.
Hey I'd take Tashaun Prince at the position as well...but in lieu of getting lottery talent for the position...you have to go for size and mobility prototypes typical of the SF.
I wonder how bad the Pacers want to get rid of SJax
I don't want to say that players like Michael Finley and Brent Barry are antiquated in today's NBA, but it's starting to look that way. One dimensional spot up shooters who don't defend, rebound or have the ability to penetrate off the dribble and score at the rim are much less valuable under the rules of today.
Three or four years ago when it was almost impossible to drive the lane, these spot up shooters were important because you had to spread the floor if you wanted any chance of your swingmen getting to the rim. Nowadays, players like Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili can get to the rim without shooters to spread the court.
Hopefully I'm wrong and the Spurs can prove that players like Finley and Barry can help win championships.
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