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  1. #1
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    Inquiry Sought Over Evangelical Video
    Defense Department Asked to Examine Officers' Acts Supporting Christian Group

    A military watchdog group is asking the Defense Department to investigate whether seven Army and Air Force officers violated regulations by appearing in uniform in a promotional video for an evangelical Christian organization.

    In the video, much of which was filmed inside the Pentagon, four generals and three colonels praise the Christian Embassy, a group that evangelizes among military leaders, politicians and diplomats in Washington. Some of the officers describe their efforts to spread their faith within the military.


    "I found a wonderful opportunity as a director on the joint staff, as I meet the people that come into my directorate," Air Force Maj. Gen. Jack J. Catton Jr. says in the video. "And I tell them right up front who Jack Catton is, and I start with the fact that I'm an old-fashioned American, and my first priority is my faith in God, then my family and then country. I share my faith because it describes who I am."

    Pete Geren, a former acting secretary of the Air Force who oversaw the service's response in 2005 to accusations that evangelical Christians were pressuring cadets at the Air Force Academy, also appears in the video. The Christian Embassy "has been a rock that I can rely on, been an organization that helped me in my walk with Christ, and I'm just thankful for the service they give," he says.

    The 10-minute video is on the group's Web site, Christianembassy.com. The organization was founded nearly 30 years ago by the late Bill Bright, who also founded Campus Crusade for Christ. The Christian Embassy Web site says the group holds prayer breakfasts each Wednesday in the Pentagon's executive dining room and organizes small groups to help military leaders "bridge the gap between faith and work."

    Army Brig. Gen. Bob Casen refers in the video to the Christian Embassy's special efforts to reach admirals and generals through Flag Fellowship groups. Whenever he sees another fellowship member, he says, "I immediately feel like I am being held accountable, because we are the aroma of Jesus Christ."

    The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a watchdog group led by retired Air Force lawyer Michael L. "Mikey" Weinstein, is requesting an investigation in a letter to the Defense Department's inspector general.

    Weinstein, a White House lawyer in the Reagan administration, cites Defense Department regulations barring personnel from appearing in uniform in "speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration . . . which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted."

    All the officers are identified in the video by their Defense Department positions, "yet the video failed to include any disclaimers indicating that the views expressed were not those of the Department of Defense," the letter says.

    It asks whether the officers received permission to promote the Christian Embassy and whether any other religious or secular organizations have been allowed to use Pentagon facilities and uniformed personnel in promotional videos.

    Catton said yesterday that he does not remember whether he sought approval to appear in the video, which he said was made in 2005. "If someone asked me today to do it, I for sure would ask permission," said the general, who sparked controversy this year by raising money from fellow officers for a congressional candidate.

    Christian Embassy officials in Washington did not return phone messages left at their homes and offices over the weekend.

    Air Force Lt. Col. Todd Vician, a Pentagon spokesman, said yesterday that "it is impossible for me or the department to comment on a letter we haven't received yet." Once the letter is in hand, he added, "I'm confident that the inspector general will take the appropriate action."

    In 2003, Army Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin drew criticism for appearing in uniform before church groups and saying, in remarks captured on video, that President Bush was "appointed by God," that the United States is "a Christian nation" and that Muslims worship "an idol." The inspector general's office determined that Boykin had not violated any rules, and he remained in a top intelligence post.

    This year, Navy chaplain Gordon J. Klingenschmitt was court-martialed for appearing in uniform at a political protest in front of the White House, though he maintained that all he did was lead a prayer.

    Weinstein noted that his son and daughter-in-law, who are serving as first lieutenants in the Air Force, received written permission in July to appear in a do entary based on the book "Constantine's Sword," a history of Christian anti-Semitism.

    "They may appear on camera for this do entary, but as they will be speaking for themselves, as private citizens, not for the Air Force, they cannot appear in uniform," says the order, a copy of which Weinstein provided to The Washington Post.
    Here's a Link to the video in question.

    ----

    Ok, I watched it and didn't find anything overtly sinister, but nevertheless the whole idea makes me very uncomfortable. Still, I'm more interested in Smeagol, Sandman and Phenomanul's opinion on this subject, as they are the Christian voices on this board (and pretty thoughtful voices at that).

  2. #2
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    Radical "Christianity" is as ed up wrong and unspiritual as radical "Mohammedism".

    These self-satisfied, sanctimonious, intellectually crippled and dishonest, chauvinist, xenophobic s "believe" they are always right, no questions asked, no reflexion, because they have decided they know the mind of God and that God is on their side, exclusively.

    Any other side is not worthy to be called humans, does not merit being alive, is to be destroyed violently, because that's "what God wants". And both sides justify themselves by radical clerics interpreting their side's sacred scripture conscripting them into God's army.

    There's no "live and let live" with these people.
    It"s "kill or be killed".
    There's no "Do unto others as they you would have them to unto you".
    It's "Do the others in before they do you in".

    In the strictest, truest sense, these extreme fringe groups are taking God's name in vain to serve their own hateful, racist, murderous, financial, earthly purposes.

    Radical "Christians" or radical "Muslims", two sides of the same coin.

    Too bad they can't exterminate each other without dragging the rest of us into their God-less fantasy worlds.

  3. #3
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Sounds much like the prayer breakfast thing that Congressmen do all the time.
    Guess they must be screwed up too.

    Just another reminder: Supreme Court and Congress open ever meeting with prayer.
    Those poor religious nutjobs.

  4. #4
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    Here's a Link to the video in question.

    ----

    Ok, I watched it and didn't find anything overtly sinister, but nevertheless the whole idea makes me very uncomfortable. Still, I'm more interested in Smeagol, Sandman and Phenomanul's opinion on this subject, as they are the Christian voices on this board (and pretty thoughtful voices at that).
    It would be a wise move by the organization to include the legal blurb that while these men are part of our nation's military, they do not speak on behalf of the military, nor is the organization sponsored by the military. Additionally, it would be wise to maintain close at hand any do entation related to the permission granted, as it has created a negative perception for these men to not be able to prove immediately that they were within regulation. These two perceptions seems to be the major crux of the matter.

    The military does have the authority to limit the promotional appearances in uniform, but that is all the authority they have. In the end, they cannot keep these men from meeting (in uniform, btw), nor can they keep these men from promoting this organization as individuals. Non-issue for me.

    The concern that I have is that as Christians, our actions should not be a stumblingblock to other believers or a hindrance to the propogation of the Gospel. Not that I should downplay or compromise my faith because it does not fit into a PC world, but I need to be conscious of the issues I can create if I do not fully understand the impacts to the actions of my faith. While I do not believe that anything other than a fairly minor violation MAY have occurred pending do entation, this small contention is taking away from the opportunity that they were promoting.

  5. #5
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    ah yes watered-down cafeteria-style simoniac christianity
    Have you guys ever heard the prayer that a country preacher in Kansas opened up the state legislature session with one year? I'm going to have to go find it. Definitely not the "prayers" that open sessions in DC!

  6. #6
    They hate us - but they want to be us!
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    Boutons - I would really like to know what happened to you in the past that has caused you to be so hateful. People aren't usually this anti-God, anti-christianity, anti-conservatism and anti-patriotism without some major event in their life coloring their views. Maybe we could understand where you're coming from a little better if you'd enlighten us.

    Rather than despising your views and comments - I find I'm really beginning to feel pity towards you. I just can't imagine going through life with such a hateful, negative outlook.

  7. #7
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Whats the big damn deal? One little legal disclaimer would seem to clear this whole (stupid) mess up.

  8. #8
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    Whats the big damn deal? One little legal disclaimer would seem to clear this whole (stupid) mess up.
    Exactly. Must be a slow news day.

  9. #9
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Boutons - I would really like to know what happened to you in the past that has caused you to be so hateful. People aren't usually this anti-God, anti-christianity, anti-conservatism and anti-patriotism without some major event in their life coloring their views. Maybe we could understand where you're coming from a little better if you'd enlighten us.

    Rather than despising your views and comments - I find I'm really beginning to feel pity towards you. I just can't imagine going through life with such a hateful, negative outlook.
    boutons, I would say is a very educated person, with no common sense
    what-so-ever and mixes with a crowd that accepts and encourages
    the language that he uses.

  10. #10
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    boutons, I would say is a very educated person, with no common sense
    what-so-ever and mixes with a crowd that accepts and encourages
    the language that he uses.
    Professor at Berkeley?

  11. #11
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    ^^Nah, more than likely a bookkeeper at Wal-Mart......

  12. #12
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    ^^Nah, more than likely a bookkeeper at Wal-Mart......
    Based on how often, and when he posts, I'm betting unemployed.

  13. #13
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Nope, he does travel in his job. So I am guessing he is fairly successful in his
    job/profession and he does have the ability to post a coherent post. He just
    has a perversion to being coherent when it comes to politics.

    We all lose our temper on occasion, but he stays angry in this particular forum.
    But you see I can say all this because he has me on ignore......

  14. #14
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    Crooky, I would really like to know what happened to you in the past that has caused you to be so stupid.
    Anything beyond being "born again" at a young age?
    Dropped on your head maybe?
    Oxygen deprivation at childbirth?

    eg, you make the egregious mistake of calling me anti-God because I'm nauseated by all these holy-rolling, Bible-thumping/obsessed radical evangelical cretins. Anti-evagelical doesn't mean anti-God,
    any more than anti-Muslim-terrorists means anti-God
    any more than anti-Repug means treason and anti-US,

    I can't imagine going through life so rock-dumb and santimoniously close-minded.

  15. #15
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    But, boutons, you are closed minded. That is what everyone is telling you. Read
    what you post.

  16. #16
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    boutons is just a bit angry. But close-minded? No way.

  17. #17
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    boutons is just a bit angry. But close-minded? No way.
    If by closed-minded you don't mean that he hates all things Christian, Republican and Bush, then you are correct.

  18. #18
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Classic thread without even trying.

  19. #19
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Nah, he just understands the motives that drives organized religion. He doesn't hate God.

  20. #20
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    "he hates all things Christian, Republican and Bush,"

    "they're they again" making serious errors.

    I'm not anti-Christian, nor anti-God, but I'm certainly anti-"Christian" any flavor that insists on literal interpretation of the Bible as scientfic record.

    The fundamental problem with western religions is that that they do not have a unified basis for/view of spirituality being based on the human nervous system. It's a terrribly short-sighted, ignorant, unnatural cleavage between mind and body. ie, it's ing wrong.

  21. #21
    They hate us - but they want to be us!
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    [QUOTE=boutons_]Crooky, I would really like to know what happened to you in the past that has caused you to be so stupid.
    Anything beyond being "born again" at a young age?
    Dropped on your head maybe?
    Oxygen deprivation at childbirth?

    eg, you make the egregious mistake of calling me anti-God because I'm nauseated by all these holy-rolling, Bible-thumping/obsessed radical evangelical cretins. Anti-evagelical doesn't mean anti-God,
    any more than anti-Muslim-terrorists means anti-God
    any more than anti-Repug means treason and anti-US,

    I can't imagine going through life so rock-dumb and santimoniously close-minded.[/QUOTE

    You just proved my point! I wasn't being sarcastic or condescending - I really wanted to know if there was something that happened to you to cause you to be so hateful towards certain things - and instead of enlightening me, you called me names and insulted me.

  22. #22
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    You just proved my point! I wasn't being sarcastic or condescending - I really wanted to know if there was something that happened to you to cause you to be so hateful towards certain things - and instead of enlightening me, you called me names and insulted me.


    Don't worry about it, you'll be put on his ignore list soon enough.

  23. #23
    This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend sandman's Avatar
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    "he hates all things Christian, Republican and Bush,"

    "they're they again" making serious errors.

    I'm not anti-Christian, nor anti-God, but I'm certainly anti-"Christian" any flavor that insists on literal interpretation of the Bible as scientfic record.

    The fundamental problem with western religions is that that they do not have a unified basis for/view of spirituality being based on the human nervous system. It's a terrribly short-sighted, ignorant, unnatural cleavage between mind and body. ie, it's ing wrong.
    Not to digress into Christian dogma, but the essence of the physical man is not the end all-be all of the Christian faith. There is a recognition of the triune nature of man - Body, Soul and Spirit - and how the three work in harmony in the spiritual sense. The Christian faith has never been about a harmony of mind and physical body, so to argue that point is to simply point out that the sky is blue.

    You seem to mention spirituality in the karma/inner peace transcendation of self-awareness, whereas I see spirituality as the interaction that my soul and spirit have with God. The center of your thought process is physical man. The center of mine is God. We have different priorities related to what we consider the object of our spirituality.

  24. #24
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    But, boutons, you are closed minded. That is what everyone is telling you. Read
    what you post.
    at xray telling people they are closed minded! Anybody else see the irony here?

  25. #25
    They hate us - but they want to be us!
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    at xray telling people they are closed minded! Anybody else see the irony here?
    There's nothing wrong with standing firmly on your beliefs, even though some people would call that closed minded. However I was talking about the virulent hatred that boutons spews - there's a BIG difference!

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