Well, let me begin by saying that I'm not excited by any means. I'm frightened on a forgien policy level, but I will try to hold out and give Bush the benefit of the doubt in that if Iraq elections go well, then there is a hope for him to bungle his way to a more managble situation.
The problem is that no matter what way things go in Janruary, we are not going to get an authentic reading on it from either side. The democrats will more than likely spin it in a very unfavorable way regardless of the outcome, and vice versa for the republicans.
I personally don't see the elections going well in the majority of the country. I don't see any government being able to take hold and exert authority across the entire country. It is simply too divided. The only leaders capable of bringing people together and uniting them under a common banner are already doing so. Unfortunetly, they are doing so against the US led forces.
Without securing a stable Iraq as quickly as possible we are in a world of hurt. Our armed forces are spread to the limit and we are not going to be able to respond to anything else untill we get Iraq under control.
Domesticly, I see a second Bush administration as something to fear and something to hope for. If he can reform the tax code to a much simpler level, and eliminate loopholes, I will praise him for that. If he can manage to privatize a portion of SS and put it under my control, I will also aplaud that. But what worries me is further legislation such as the patriot act, and a renewing of efforts to ban same sex marriages on a national level. His appointments to the supreme court and their ability review such cases as Roe V Wade are also something I worry about. While this president has the ability to minimize government and reform taxes, he also has the ablility to knock personal freedoms down a peg.
It's a mixed bag, but I see more negative than I do positive.
democracy takes time. give the u.s. the benefit of the doubt. they did it in afghanistan, why can't they do it iraw too? afghanistan was very divided, but democracy is working.
only people who do wrong should fear the patriot act.
re: gay marriage.
don't worry, you can move to another country and get married to your boyfriend.
The new golden age has begun.
Sit back and let the money roll in.
I think the message of this administration is to pretty much get off your ass and earn your own.
My thoughts? CLEAN UP YOUR MESS.
This country is not as safe, prosperous, or free as we were 4 years ago.
Yes we all saw how well that worked, its almost as if they are using the articles of confederation. Each warlord owns a is own state and there is a very weak federal government which couldnt exert any influence over the country if it wanted to.
I don'tthink the elections in Afghanistan worked very well when the government has no way to govern. The people in control are pretty much the same pre war. However, it's too early to tell.
Iraq however, is a situation that is much more volatile. The Kurd's don't want the muslims telling them what to do and neither of the Islamic groups wants the other to have control.
I'm sorry, but I see a civil war on the horizon.
Right, the Taliban should still be in power there. Any society which kills women for accidently showing their faces is obviously one favored by liberals and a much better governing body. Wouldn't want to replace them with a weak federal government.
Let's see...Afghanistan is one of the few countries in the World where Men outlive women, it's people have one of the lowest average life spans in the world.
Women were forbidden to work...and even better they were forbidden to see a male doctor...What does that mean? Women were denied medical treatment...unless they did it in secret in which case if they were caught they would be executed for A.Working and B.Leaving the house unescorted by a male. Think that had anything to do with why men live longer there?
So what does an enlighted high IQ liberal conclude? Removing that regime was the wrong thing to do. Bush is a murdering warmonger.
Last edited by whottt; 11-06-2004 at 07:39 PM.
You see, thats the problem with speaking to people in here. You read what is said and then you take what you want from it and spin it.
No, we can't be critical of any management of the situations in Iraq or Afghanistan because then we are saying they aren't better off.
I've got no problem with you being critical...but I'd like to see what you would have done differently.
Have the US totally take over Afghanistan? These people have to be given a fair chance to govern themselves...
The Afghani War was totally backed by the UN...what that, and your criticism proves, is that whether we act unilaterally or not...the UN is irrelevant, having UN backing does not make for an easier war or installing a govt. Therefore when you criticize the Afghan situation you lose the intellectual credibility to also argue that our acting unilaterally in Iraq(which in itself is an untrue liberal claim) is justification to be against that war.
War is you know.
Nah, if you got money, you'll get more. Guaranteed.I think the message of this administration is to pretty much get off your ass and earn your own.
Yeah, heaven forbid the rich, who still carry 80% of the tax burden, and employee more of the country, get money to pump into the private sector to create jobs after the tech bust and 911.
No one but you keeps you from being rich in America.
Pssss...want to see what happens to countries with high taxes in a recession? Look at Europe right now...Look at Canada.
Good lord liberals scare me. They'll have us sucking terrorist and being financially dependent on the state for every single thing, and kill off all technological advancement and religious freedom, as well as the cons utional right to bear arms, if it is the last thing they do.
Last edited by whottt; 11-06-2004 at 10:18 PM.
My Thoughts on a Second Bush Term?
Manny, Iceman, Ex, Chumpy, Nbadanallah, Johnny, and the rest of you "forgettables" can just shut the up. You obviously didn't know what the you were talking about before the election and most of us don't care what you have to say now.
Are you saying if you have money now, you'll get less?
I know Yoni is all for censorship -- pass another sedition act.
I said Kerry would lose, so kindly yourself.
4 more wars
Your point is a non-factor in this arguement since we were talking about how well democracy was working in afghanistan.
It may not make it easier overall, but it is easier for us specifically because we can then distribute responsibilities. This doesnt mean, however, that we should leave before the job is finished (as we did).
It's working better than the Taliban was. What other point is there? Want it to be better? Hop a flight on over there and give of yourself to the cause.
yeah, it is probably better, but we have a history of not setting up very good democracies, or setting up "democracies" that are just puppet governments, and the fact that we high tailed it outta there ASAP without accomplishing our main objective gives me an ominous feeling. (yes I know we still have 15k people there, but that is enough to basically secure Kabul, which is the only reason why the prez there has at least that much power).
If we hadn't liberals would have ed that we were occupying that country and setting up a puppet government, oh wait....
By the way...tell me again what democracies we have set up that are not very good, or puppet governments.
I hear this a lot and most of the time the people usually haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
I hope you aren't going to list countries we have given aid to, for the simple reason that we have given aid to 99% of the world and usually give it with the emphasis on asking that country to develop the democratic process...and that's usually what they promise to do when they take our aid. And usually they are lying about it.
I for one am in favor of cutting off just about all foreign aid...too bad the Arabs got their asses kicked by Israel so badly in wars they started that we had to pay Israel to give them their land back.
(yes I know we still have 15k people there, but that is enough to basically secure Kabul, which is the only reason why the prez there has at least that much power).
As the quality of life improves so will their democracy, in any case we can't make them want it...but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they didn't want the Taliban more.
And you don't see anymore terrorist training camps over there now do you? You know, the kind the Clinton administration let flourish for 5 years.
Last edited by whottt; 11-07-2004 at 12:04 AM.
Whott is a perfect example of a angry, ignorant, self-efficating American.If we hadn't liberals would have ed that we were occupying that country and setting up a puppet government, oh wait....
By the way...tell me again what democracies we have set up that are not very good, or puppet governments.
I hear this a lot and most of the time the people usually haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
I hope you aren't going to list countries we have given aid to, for the simple reason that we have given aid to 99% of the world and usually give it with the emphasis on asking that country to develop the democratic process...and that's usually what they promise to do when they take our aid. And usually they are lying about it.
I for one am in favor of cutting off just about all foreign aid...too bad the Arabs got their asses kicked by Israel so badly in wars they started that we had to pay Israel to give them their land back.
He's so busy kissing W's ass that he doesn't realize that the Karzai government is a puppet government. The U.S. never wanted to invade Afghanistan in the first place. True, the Taliban were SOB's, but if they hadn't been unlucky in drawing the Bin Laden wild card, they would probably still be in Afghanistan today.
We give foreign aid to countries for our own purposes. Most of the foreign aid we give to other countries must be used to purchase American commodities and durable goods.
Damn right I'm angry...American being the key word. And I'm real ing tired of a bunch of naive buttpirates wanting to sell us out to organizations and countries that are trying to weaken our politcal(UN) and economic(France and the EU) power.
I don't even like W, I just know the less ed up side of the issues...and thanks to the rampant mental illness on the left...as that suicide kinda points out...that just happens to be Bush.He's so busy kissing W's ass that he doesn't realize that the Karzai government is a puppet government. The U.S. never wanted to invade Afghanistan in the first place. True, the Taliban were SOB's, but if they hadn't been unlucky in drawing the Bin Laden wild card, they would probably still be in Afghanistan today.
What a cynical asshole asnwer...what country doesn't do things in it's own interests? No one forces them to take it and it just so happens our main agenda has always been the establishment of Democracy. We may do some ty things like limiting countries power or something...but Democracy is always an issue with us. We always pressure every country we deal with to install Democracy and Westernize. Even Saudi Arabia. Always. Even if we are siding with a dictator, sometimes we think we'll be more effective by encouraging the dictator to Westernize than some rebel movement that will most likely split in 10 different directions.We give foreign aid to countries for our own purposes. Most of the foreign aid we give to other countries must be used to purchase American commodities and durable goods.
Oh yeah, the U.S. loves democracy. That is, as long as it supports our candidate of choice otherwise, it.but Democracy is always an issue with us
Hypocrite much? The only people I have seen not supporting the President are liberals, but it's nothing new it's been going on for quite a while, at least 4 years. Under our system it is possible for a President to be elected without getting the popular vote...it's intentionally designed that way so the big, dumbass, states don't crush the little ones. It's happened several times in the history of our country.Oh yeah, the U.S. loves democracy. That is, as long as it supports our candidate of choice otherwise, it.
The only ones challenging the legitimacy of our elections and refusing to accept the outcome, are liberals, they question, they take it to court, when measures are taken and electronic machines are used to shut them the up, they then question the machines which they wanted and ed about...it's almost Afghani like.
FEAR will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battlestation.
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