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the more we can kill in fallujah, the better.
they might regroup in mosul. the insurgency will die.
Rochester TodayPENTAGON (AP) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says don't expect the battle for Fallujah to be the last big clash between coalition troops and the insurgents in Iraq.
He says insurgents have to be routed from their safe havens and the U-S and Iraqi governments have made the joint decision to see this through.
Back in April, U-S Marines launched an assault on Fallujah but later halted the offensive. By most accounts, insurgents used the time between then and now to build up their arsenals and their popular support.
AS I've been saying, anyone who thinks that the battle of Fallujah is the culmination of the Iraqi insurgency is diluted and ought to turn off Talkradio and Fox News for a while, take a deep, deep, breath and go outside for awhile - clear their heads.
the more we can kill in fallujah, the better.
they might regroup in mosul. the insurgency will die.
I don't recall anyone saying that...but, it is the battle du jour! Probably on to Ramadi after that...
And, if you'd paid attention back in 2001, President Bush told all Americans this would be a protracted war against global terrorism. Only Demoncrats, such as yourself, have any illusions that reasonable and sane people believe it will all be over after Fallujah falls...
With the Marines..it'll soon be over.
What people seem to have forgotten, is that when you're fighting an insurgency on their turf, it NEVER dies. These people aren't going to give up, and they can disrupt things so damn easily that the odds of this thing going on and on and on are overhelming.
Call me a pessemist, but I'm just being real. You have to realize that whlie there are forgieners there, most of these people are native Iraqis who feel they are fighting for their country, and that can be a very large motivating factor.
Either way, major combat was over a long ass time ago....right?
"Call me a pessemist, but I'm just being real. You have to realize that whlie there are forgieners there, most of these people are native Iraqis who feel they are fighting for their country, and that can be a very large motivating factor." ..........................Did you conveniently forget the "native Iraqis" battling those insurgents?
You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying all Iraqis are on their side, but what I said was the motivation for their side is not something that is just going to die away. Civil wars are usually long and bloody, and this is merely the begining.
i think we disagree on the motivation.
if their motivation is to stop a free iraq. then I think it WILL DIE, with the death of the insurgents.....
Let Freedom Reign.
I didn't miss your point! "Their" motivation will go away when they are DEAD .
You know how stupid all of that sounds?
Seriously, think about it, they want to stop a free Iraq. They are fighting because they want to return to the life under Sadaam.
I think so many people in this country misunderstand the motivations of people in that area of the world because they are so different in regards to culture, they don't share the same values, and because our leaders continuely portray anyone who disagree's with us in those manners and fights back against our hegemonic actions as EVIL.
Whether or not your agree with their choices, you have to at this point at least conceed that these people are driven and extremely motivated. I don't quite know what they want to achieve other than simply drive the united states out of the country, but I do think very strongly that they are not fighting "freedom". That's just some catchy presidents love to say because it rallys people behind them.
I think at some point we need to make a serious effort to understand them and their culture in order to better diagnose the solutions to the problems of the region. It's very hard though when your government has a serious lack of people that can even translate their language.
Hook, that's one way of dealing with them. But if you think you can kill them and their deaths will not motivate others, You haven't been watching what has happend very closely whatsoever.
"It's very hard though when your government has a serious lack of people that can even translate their language." .................Alright...at the risk of you thinking I'm questioning your reasoning....why don't you volunteer for that task and help out?
Oh, I see... it's just in their culture to round up women for rape rooms, torture soccer teams when they lose, kill thousands upon thousands with poison gas, and put little kids in prison. The insurgents are fighting for the freedom to return to those significant parts of their culture, so they're not evil... just misunderstood or just very naughty.
I've been watching very closely Manny and I am not trying to underscore you. I just don't agree with you.
ACTUALLY HOOK, i was looking into classes at UTSA in arabic, but sadly they don't offer any. I will be taking some in the future though, but unless I transfer up to UT in Austin, it probably will not be untill I go to grad school.
The prospect of going to DC with a degree in PS and having arabic experience is one that makes me salivate because of the amount of doors that will open.
Crazy, and we live in a society that has only recently granted rights to minorities, contains capital punishment, still denies equal rights to large groups of people and has a history of genocide.
I wonder the reaction of the american people if the UN put together a force to liberate opressed people in this country and end capital punishment?
Yeah, the idea of liberating societiesin the middle east is nothing Dubya invented, a few English kings had that down pat a long ass time ago. See Also, The Cursades.
I can appreciate that Hook, and we're allowed to disagree.
I wish you all the success in the world and sincerely hope you apply that knowledge in a responsible manner. Seiously!
Sorry, I can't help but laugh...
To compare the growth and maturity and freedom found in the US over the last hundred years to the brutality, oppression and real genocide is like the pot calling the china black...Crazy, and we live in a society that has only recently granted rights to minorities, contains capital punishment, still denies equal rights to large groups of people and has a history of genocide.
Oh, but I gotta give you a dittoGo for it!I wish you all the success in the world and sincerely hope you apply that knowledge in a responsible manner. Seiously!
It's an exageration, but once again, liberating a people by force is something that has been tried and tried again.
Hey don't take my word for it, look at history. I don't know of my revolutions that were exported.
hmm... see France after WW2...Italy... Germany... how about Japan... Philippines... there have been lots of places in modern history that have been liberated from tyrants and oppressors.
but I do think very strongly that they are not fighting "freedom".
dude manny, alot of them are fighting against their loss of power and control that they had under saddam. alot of them are people that have committed atrocites and have no place and no one to turn to in a free iraq. and alot of them are fighting against iraqi freedom because of what it would do to the radical islamic belief of a hateful, tryannical America that wants nothing but to rape the land of it's resources and detroy the muslims from the face of the earth....that is their battlecry....A free and successful Iraq means thier battlecry turns to . Propaganda won't mean when there is a free Iraq. We will have a check and mate vs. these radicals.
As good as it can be said!!!!!!!
Manny is the only one on track here. All of the NeoCons seem to think of Middle Easterners as just Americans in robes or something. Life is cheap to these people, and freedom is an anathema. I was watching a special on the U.A.E., supposedly one of our allies in the area. They still have slavery. They import young boys from other countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan to ride in their camel races. The boys sleep in tin shacks, are basicly starved to keep their weight down, and get no medical care. If they die, they die, and they frequently do. Meanwhile, the camels have swimming pools, get the best feed and on site veterinary care. This culture of the cheapness of human life goes back about 14 centuries, and isn't likely to change because we put some boots on the ground in Iraq. As soon as those boots leave, the embedded culture will return.
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