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That lineup was Vaughn, Manu, Barry, Finley and Horry was classic
http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bi...24&game=HOUSAS
As I expected, whenever Bowen/Duncan/Parker sat, that spelled disaster.
With Parker on the bench at the end of the 3rd/beginning of 4th, the Spurs were -11 in that stretch. Bowen didn't come back in til later (they were -15 in that stretch when he was out). And then they went +8 after that.
For the game, Parker and Bowen were high at +10 and +11.
Barry (-14), Horry (-11) and Elson (-8) were all horrible.
As were the point guards, Vaughn (-11) and Beno (-4). (Someone off the waiver wire or DLeague can probably do better)
The bench sucks.
And Pop needs to stop sitting Parker and Duncan together, poor Manu got stranded out there with the bench players and the offense died.
They MUST go back to the philosophy of keeping 2 of the Big 3 on the floor at all times. The bench isn't strong enough to leave only 1 of them out there.
Adjust, Pop.
That lineup was Vaughn, Manu, Barry, Finley and Horry was classic
Somehow Parker and Bowen got most of the blame tonight ... and they led the team in +/-.
Shows you how clueless most Spurs fans are.
Last edited by timvp; 01-25-2007 at 04:04 AM.
In the six minutes of action that McGrady was on the court without Bowen, he scored 12 of his 37 points and dished out 2 of his 3 assists. McGrady didn't miss a shot with Bowen on the bench.
That highlights two things:
1) Bowen is still by far the best perimeter defender on the team. Watching McGrady go against Ginobili and Barry was a joke.
2) Not having a long three after all these years is just stupid. How this team didn't get even a decent long small forward on this roster blows my mind. Pop said right after the loss to the Mavericks that the Spurs needed to get a "Derrick McKey type player". And we are still waiting . . .
Nearly every team in the league has a dynamic, versatile young small forward, from Caron Butler in Washington to Luke Walton in Los Angeles, and everyone in between... the Grangers, the Howards, the Dengs and Nocionis... With the decline of the center in the more mobile NBA, the small forward has gotten increasingly important.
Q: Who did Pop mean when he mentioned the Derrick McKey player? Did he have someone in mind? Did they think they could get someone at that point? Was it someone in the draft and why did they fail to get him? Who was it?
If we fail to get a Corey Brewer in this draft or get someone via trade or free agency it might as well be curtains. We cannot survive without a modern, talented small forward.
What about POP, how well he coached the game?
Is it possible to keep either Duncan/Parker, Duncan/Manu, or Parker/Manu on the floor at all times?
I've given up hope that Spur fans would be more sophisticated than others when it comes to evaluating defensive play.
Bowen was in McGrady's jock almost as much as it is possible to be with a player of that caliber, and the clueless were prattling on about how bad his defense was. Bruce has lost a step and had some off nights on defense, but last night wasn't one of them.
Not every second, but they can do it better than they are doing it. In the past it was a priority to try. Now, sometimes there are six minute stretches with just one of them out on the floor.
And that's when everything dies.
Adjust, Pop.Kori, welcome to the church of AHF
Last season Pop got used to playing that Manu plus the bench line-up late in the season when Rasho started coming off the bench. He would play Manu, Beno (NVE was injured), Brent or Finley, Horry and Rasho to start the second quarter. There were several games late last season that this line-up actually outperformed the starters in terms of +/- game stats, epsecially because Manu usually took over then. Now, you can see Manu forcing it when he is out there with the bench because he isn't getting any help.
Bowen did a damn good job, especially considering that the bench let McGrady got rolling. 12 points in 6 minutes without Bowen on the court is a joke. You let a player like McGrady get rolling and you could put anyone you want on him and he's going to go off.
this has driven me nuts all season. pop's rotations are atrocious...and he's so mechanical that he never deviates from them. for the life of me, like clockwork, he'll follow his rotation and take the player out of the game, even if they're on fire. i don't get it but whenever i see it, i laugh because I think of Phil Jackson calling Pop and his staff the simulator crew implying that Pop is incapable of deviating from the game plan and adjusting on the fly. I thought Phil was just talking back then...but I'm beginning to see truth in Phil's assessment.
Pop has been doing this for years and years. Most games this is the 1st quarter script:
-spurs start 1st quarter pretty good and build an early lead.
-at the 6 minute mark, Pop ALWAYS sits Manu.
-Spurs usually maintain lead until Pop sits Duncan AND Parker at the 4 or 3 minute mark of the quarter
-He usually brings manu alone back for the last 2 mins of a quarter, Spurs usually lose the lead by then because of the sorry bench
that's our sorry 1st quarters
Pop sucks!
I'm not a fan at all of +/- stats on only one game because it's not really meaningfull : the best example of that is the last game against Mavs the player with the best +/- was Udrih and he was horrible during this game.
I agree that Spurs must 2 of the big 3 at the same time on the florr for 48 min but it's not that easy.
Duncan play 40min, Parker 36min and Manu 36 min : that means that you can only have the big 3 together during 16 min (and 2 of 3 during 32min).
16 mins is quite few given that you wan to have the big 3 togetheer at the start of the 1st and 3rd quarter and at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarter. The best solution is maybe to bench one (Manu).
Sometimes it's not meaningful. You have to watch the game and also look at the stats to figure out if it means much.
Last night, the offense died during the times Tony/Bowen/Tim were on the bench.
The Spurs were +10 with Tony in and -15 with Beno/Vaughn.
The stretch from near the end of the third, until midway through the 4th was atrocious. It's not a wonder when lineups like Oberto/Finley/Barry/Manu/Vaughn were on the floor. Poor Manu.
Manu won't hold up playing 36 minutes in the regular season. His are the minutes that have to be watched most closely, both in total number and in distribution (since you probably want him out there for at least 10 minutes of the fourth).
You can try to give the big three more total minutes, but that's at the risk of having them burned out by the playoffs. The better solution is to distribute the minutes smarter, as people have been saying, and not have two of them on the bench at the same time.
Does anybody have any HARD DATA about this "burned out in the season, so failed in the playoffs? For a player, for a team?
Spurs really lack a 4th scoring option.
Last year it was Finley, it was great but this year it's even worse. Spurs 4th score is Barry and he scores only 8.5 ppg.
Spurs are the only team in the league with only 3 players averaging 9.0ppg. The fact that a player like Maggette won't get shots with SA is BS. In fact Spurs lack scorers : Finley, Udrih and Bonner have taken a lot of shots that could have been taken by a more efficient scorer.
I've taken yesterday minutes but I agree that Manu won't play 36mpg or Duncan 40mpg. I guess they will play the same amount during playoffs too. The only way not to have two on the bench at the same time during the regular season is to bench Manu.
There´s actually one of them always on the floor,thing is the bench guys suck.
That'd be easier with Manu coming off the bench.
Where have I heard that before?
Which conclusion from the +/- did you not agree with?
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