Can Ginobili keep this up?

**RobinsontoDuncan** · 11-12-2004

Now I know from a talent standpoint Manu is loaded, but from a touches standpoint, if Parker ever becomes a marginaly good point gaurd again, will Manu have enough shots to keep up these stats?

I have seen Manu play some great ball of late (well actually: listened, read, and seen; mostly the former) and I have always thought that Manu had an uncanny ability to score points off the bench with limited minutes. This always lead me to think that starting would cause an increase in points, but Tim Duncan is our guy, and I wonder if we can have Manu averaging 21 ppg, Parker averaging 16 ppg (I feel confident that by midseason his numbers will be around that level) and Tim averaging 23-25 ppg unless they go into ovetime every game this season.

We are succesfull as a slow, time managment, and defense oriented team, in order to make that work, we would have to turn into the Mavericks.

**FromWayDowntown** · 11-12-2004

Manu's touches aren't particularly out-of-line with what would be expected for the rest of the season. He had 12 shots in Seattle on a night where Duncan took 16 and Parker took 23. The bigger question to me is whether Manu will continue to shoot the ball this well -- I'd expect him to fall back a bit, but with the number of layups and dunks he creates for himself, he should be able to maintain a fairly lofty FG %, which will make him efficient with his productivity, which is the most important thing he can be.

But, if the Spurs keep averaging 97 ppg, Manu's production (regardless of his efficiency) will continue to be impressive.

if Parker ever becomes a marginaly good point gaurd again

Don't you think that's a bit of an overstatement? Parker on bad nights is a marginally good point guard. If he'd played poorly in 3 of 4 games during a week in January, nobody would be questioning if Parker could play. Get off to a slow start, however, and the calls of incompetence come raining down. Give the kid some time.

**fonzy16** · 11-12-2004

and dont forget barry. seem's like the spurs will just have to average more points per game this season. what a sweet problem.

**Nikos** · 11-12-2004

15-16ppg from each Parker and Manu would be fine. I don't expect anywhere near 20ppg from either of them at this point.

**RobinsontoDuncan** · 11-12-2004

Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan

if Parker ever becomes a marginaly good point gaurd again

Don't you think that's a bit of an overstatement? Parker on bad nights is a marginally good point guard. If he'd played poorly in 3 of 4 games during a week in January, nobody would be questioning if Parker could play. Get off to a slow start, however, and the calls of incompetence come raining down. Give the kid some time.

I thought my sarcasm was evident but yes, your right, Parker is good, I am diappointed with him so far this season though.

Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan

Parker averaging 16 ppg (I feel confident that by midseason his numbers will be around that level)

**Rummpd** · 11-12-2004

Ginobli right now deserves strong consideration one of the top 5 shooting guards in the league (or world for that matter) as the Olympics and this early NBA season has shown and might be moving into the top 3 challenging Allen, Pierce, Rudd (is that the guy on the Bucks) and perhaps a few others. I would not trade him right now straight up without blinking for anyone of those three but Kobe and McGrady (and even he is a maybe yes and maybe not with his injuries and seems to be a head case at times) without thinking about his all around game, passion etc.

Duncan + Ginobli will be the major reason the Spurs win the championship this year if we get a solid performance from Parker, Rasho, Bowen, Rose and the rest.

If he plays 30 min plus a night he will average at least 18 a night and correspondingly through his passing, defense and all around head up play help win many games.

The only confounder might be Brown - Barry will get his minutes but Brown can also play well at times and may steal some minutes for stretches.

I personaly would love to see Barry, Brown, Ginobli on the floor 10 minutes per game - tall, quick, athletic etc!

MadDoc

**Solid D** · 11-12-2004

I'm not as concerned with Manu's points average as I am with other things like TOs. He's still under 1 on assist-to-turnover ratio (more TOs than assists).

What I am most impressed with about Gino this season is his on-court command, confidence, and knowledge of the offense and defense. He is actually vocal and pointing people to spots like a point guard will do.

He actually is another point guard the way they run a couple of their sets. One example is when Manu gets the ball at the top of the key. He, at that spot, becomes the quarterback and is in the triple threat position. It's the play where the two pivots are setting screens on either side for the 1 and 3 men. Manu's rifle passes have led to numerous easy buckets so far this year out of this set.

**Nikos** · 11-12-2004

I'm not as concerned with Manu's points average as I am with other things like TOs. He's still under 1 on assist-to-turnover ratio (more TOs than assists).

Agreed. Eventually as his PPG drops down I am hoping his TO's drop as well, while his assists stay around the same or more.

A lot of his turnovers have been just careless passes and many them come instanteously after one of his steals. I don't think its really a function of him getting the ball more as it is hes still making risky passes and getting careless with the ball after steals. His scoring/rebounding/efficiency are making up for it right now, but I want him to make up for his likely decrease in PPG/FG% with a solid A/TO ratio.

**smeagol** · 11-12-2004

Originally Posted by Nikos

15-16ppg from each Parker and Manu would be fine. I don't expect anywhere near 20ppg from either of them at this point.

Man of little faith. Manu will prove you wrong, though.

**Nikos** · 11-12-2004

It's just too tough to average 20ppg as a sidekick on this team, unless you are an elite scorer. Spurs play a more defensive oriented style, and Pop will make sure they stick to that SLOW pace and defensive type of game that yields fewer possesions than the average team.

**Phenomanul** · 11-12-2004

Originally Posted by Nikos

Agreed. Eventually as his PPG drops down I am hoping his TO's drop as well, while his assists stay around the same or more.

A lot of his turnovers have been just careless passes and many them come instanteously after one of his steals. I don't think its really a function of him getting the ball more as it is hes still making risky passes and getting careless with the ball after steals. His scoring/rebounding/efficiency are making up for it right now, but I want him to make up for his likely decrease in PPG/FG% with a solid A/TO ratio.

Some of those turnovers are still because his teammates aren't ready for the pass when in a good scoring position (The pass the bounced on Horry's head while cutting under the basket against LA comes to mind).... When Barry, Manu and Parker are on the floor everyone including Duncan needs to be ready for a pass from anyone, from anywhere.... that is how great passing teams develop chemistry...

Since Pop has somewhat relaxed the leash he had around Ginobili, I think his teammates are finally beginning to gel with his style... Last two years Ginobili was plucked out of the game for a turnover. This year he at least is allowed to make up for them with the rest of his game.

**Mr. Body** · 11-12-2004

Just wanted to say - that pass Manu threw off Horry's head against LA was a bad pass. Terrible, actually.

**RobinsontoDuncan** · 11-12-2004

So the general consensus seems to be- No.

**Solid D** · 11-12-2004

For the record, yes I think he can keep this up...at least in the 18-20 ppg range.

**Nikos** · 11-12-2004

So the general consensus seems to be- No.

Yes. His currently production seems way too high in terms of what he will be producing from an entire 82game season. I'd be thrilled with 16-5-5 with less turnovers. Even that is not gaurunteed.

**spursfaninla** · 11-12-2004

Well, for one more game (at least), he was able to.

And then some; he was more than a "second star" for the spurs tonight; he was clearly THE dominant player on the court (though shaq's 23 and 20 was big as well).

Manu's confidence is incredible right now, and he keeps putting up ridiculous numbers. I hope this carries over, when this hot streak is over, into his general play.

**Athenea** · 11-12-2004

Originally Posted by Nikos

Yes. His currently production seems way too high in terms of what he will be producing from an entire 82game season. I'd be thrilled with 16-5-5 with less turnovers. Even that is not gaurunteed.

Nikosss, keep it up!!!

Manu seems to react to your opinions!!!

**Solid D** · 11-12-2004

Well, I said "yes" before this game tonight but WOW, tonight's performance confirms my opinion about his ability to keep this up!

**Nikos** · 11-12-2004

Manu sucks

Just Kidding.

Still I am hoping for 16-5-5 out of him. That would be great. Right now I'm happy hes finding a comfort zone and scoring very efficiently. Hope he keeps it up.

**RobinsontoDuncan** · 11-12-2004

watch the fvcking game he dominated

**pjjrfan** · 11-12-2004

Man, I'm just happy he is on our Spurs team. Manu doesn't need to score points to be effective or productive. He does so many things, and his basketball instincts are one of the best I have seen in any player. I saw this when he helped beat the US team 3 years ago, and Barkley saw it right off also. I think Manu has been great since he came on, he has had to overcome Pop's strict control , the NBA refs, the pressure of having to prove himself all over again against the best compe ion in the world, being benched for a guy who was playing so bad that he was no help off the bench coming in for Manu, I think this year the contract, Pop's committment to his game, and knowing that he won't be relegated to the bench again is just taking all the baggage that's been put on his back. And he wasn't playing to shabby with all this crap hanging on his neck.

I love this guy. He plays like every game will be his last and he leaves it on the floor.

**smeagol** · 11-12-2004

Nikos:

I agree. He will eventually hit a wall. But right now it's fun to watch him play. Last year I said he can be an 18 / 5 / 5 player. I'm still hoping for that (and maybe a little more).

By the way, Athenea and I were calling for you at tonight's chat, but you failed us.

**Goddess Spur** · 11-13-2004

Man, and people still think the Spurs are boring..

I sure hope he can keep this up, but to get 20+ppg.. I don't know. Like previous posters have said, it's hard to do on a team like this. I see somewhere around 16-18.

**TheWriter** · 11-13-2004

He's avg 31 minutes per game so far.

He's playing the same amount of minutes as last season.

Difference is he's getting the ball more often and his shot is falling down.

I most def. see him keeping this up.

**Rummpd** · 11-13-2004

Manu season average will be at least 18.2 mark it down! Barring major injury of course! Tim will gladly give up some of his points (but would not need to if he would hit his stupid FTS).

See previous post above where I called him top 3-5 right now - after last night he could be definite top 3 shooting guard - I am not sure I would want a swap for anyone at his position = defense, intensity, scoring, passing, rebounding and most important his APPARENT GRANDE STONES!

MadDoc

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