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The mavs are the best team in the league. Therefore they are the most capable team of winning without their superstar. That is just a lame argument as the teams aren't equal record wise.
Dallas can beat more than 50% of the teams in NBA without Dirk in a 7 game series, no doubt. Suns will lose to _every_ team in the NBA in 7 game series without Nash.
How the heck can people consider Dirk the MVP. How is he the "most" valuable to his team?
The mavs are the best team in the league. Therefore they are the most capable team of winning without their superstar. That is just a lame argument as the teams aren't equal record wise.
Then don't use their record to justify Dirk=MVP. Justify it some other way please.
Note: Suns and Mavs are VERY CLOSE in terms of w-l record, and Suns owned Mavs last two times. Keep this in mind when you justify.
My point still stands after your weak post: Remove Nash, Suns suck. Remove Dirk, Mavs still awesome. Thus GAIN from having Nash much greater than GAIN from having Dirk. Thus Nash is more valuable to his team. Done deal.
quod erat demonstrandum
The mavs are not awesome without Dirk. George just had an unusually good game which is good news for the mavs but bad news in Dirk's chances as the MVP. The suns would be just fine without Nash with Barbosa running the show. They even made their lead bigger against the mavs last game with Nash on the bench. They didn't play enough games without Nash to really show what they are.
I don't really think that the Mavs are still awesome without Dirk, although they do eke out wins without him...look at the games he's been out, those wins were VERY narrowly won. To be honest, I will say that Nash, from a win-loss perspective, is more valuable than Dirk but mostly because Nash's position affects all the other players the way Dirk's position cannot. However, this doesn't mean that the Suns aren't capable of winning games without Nash, as a Suns fan pointed out to me the other day. Amare did fine with Marbury as point and there are other guards that can play well enough to maybe eke out some of those wins that the Suns haven't been able to do without Nash...the Suns org refuses to play other guys and give them that opp, or maybe they haven't acquired the right guy. To me, one is not better than the other, but the Suns' failure to win games without Nash should not only be seen as a sign of Nash's value but also as a sign of their failure to secure a decent backup pg. Also, if the Mavs w/o Dirk are greater than the Suns w/o Nash, then take some of those other All-Stars kudos away from them, can't have it both ways...unless you also want to argue that Nash's value is in securing All-Star props for his other teammates.
Let me just clarify, I will be disappointed if Dirk doesn't win this year because I thought he deserved it last year...but it's not like I don't understand why Nash deserves it as well, if he does indeed get it this year.
If both squads are healthy, I guarantee the Suns will beat the Mavs in the playoffs. Watch.
You saying the Spurs are going to lose to the Suns?
Very possible, because they will be extremely tough.
Dont subs ute the fact that the Suns most often malfunction when Steve is out as a case for MVP. The Suns clearly have the edge in talent 1-8, but The mavs have veteran leadship and a wealth of guys that know theyre roles and exceute very well. The suns have a crop of talent that doesnt perform nearly as efficiently as their style of play dictates. That being said, Nash is THE offense.
Using the "remove this player from this team" argument doesnt work, because every team has a player that is vital to their success. That qualifier for MVP only works in association with the W-L record. (the one people are trying to throw out)
-MVP is the most valuble player on his team.
-The most impactfull player on his team
-Makes his teamates better
-Is having an extrodinary year stat wise
-Is one of the better teams in the league
-And has also been the difference in most of his teams wins
The world waits for the mavs to lose now? Id say the team has come a looooong way.
the MVP. There's only one trophy Dirk is interested in.
(Although I do find it disturbing that, even in an MVP race, Dirk is finding a way to wilt and fold under pressure)
Sad to say Nash is the only multiple-time MVP with no championship - yet. It will be a hard road but unless they play defense, I dont think they could breeze past any West playoff team by now.
Was Nash running the point when the Suns lost by a combined 46 points in back-to-back games a couple weeks ago? Just like with Dirk, the Suns lose games when Nash is still playing.
That's the most elementary argument when debating the award. You can do that with any team in the league. And, if we're going to use that as a platform, then Kobe is the clearcut winner.
Best player on the best team with the best record, though = Dirk.
There will be no winners or losers for th MVP award this year. Only he who is awarded the honor and those who aren't. There are two very deserving candidates and a third much deserving one. If either of Dirk, Nash or Kobe get the nod, then I don't see how any can argue against it. Each is very valueable to his team, and their team to the NBA. For any number of reasons, I do think Dirk gets the award.
If the Mavs had to go 10 consecutive games without Dirk, I can promise you we wouldnt go 10-0. We would be 5-5 or 6-4. No Dirk in the playoffs=1st round loss. No Dirk for an 82 game season=lottery bound. I dont get where people think this team without their ing superstar is better then 50% of the league in a 7 game series! Sure we managed to win the games Dirk was out but its been 1 game every once and a while. We wouldnt be doing this if he was out for a few weeks.
That's fine, but yout 5-5 is still better than the likely 3-7 of the Suns without Nash. Two years ago, it was 1-6. So 3-7 may be overestimating things a bit. 2-8 to 4-6 tops. I'd say the Mavs, against the same teams the Suns face would go 5-5 to 7-3.
They just have a team more inclined to win without its superstar. They run a spread-isolation offense where any number of players can break down the defense, get into the lane for points, fouls or perimeter kickouts.
It would be harder for the Mavs, but still doable. Howard, Terry and Stackhouse can each score 20 points without help from others. Amare is the only one on the Suns that can make that claim. Marion needs a set up, Diaw is too passive to try, Bell needs the kickout, Barbosa needs it as well, but not to the extent.
This is all just talk, since neither Dirk nor Nash has missed 10 games this year, but the Suns lost to Atlanta and got blown out by Seattle as well as losing to Chicago big without Nash. 0-3 isn't 3-7, but it's certainly a telling start.
Arguing how good a team would be without their superstar is re ed. Isn't MVP awarded for what they do ON the court?
So if Nash blows out a knee early next season and plays 3 games (all wins), and the Suns go 15-67 that year with him injured, he's MVP cuz of how bad they are without him?
That's a fair point. But a few games here or there can certainly give a good guage of what a team can and can't do without said star. It shouldn't be the whole arguement, but it shouldn't be dismissed either. Ya know, since it is the vague, "MOST VALUEABLE"... It's basically decided on a whim unless someone just plays unbelieveable for an entire season.
Without Dirk, the Mavs would not be anywhere close to W-L total they have right now. I hate the Mavs but you gotta give Dirk credit. He's had a great year.
Nash has already gotten the last two. He won't be getting another.
If any year, this should be the year that the league should go away from the "Best Record" as the criteria to win the award. Kobe is the MVP! He does whatever needed for his team to win. He had Nash like numbers the other day in a win for the Lakers. It's not another player in the league that can do it all as Kobe does.
Steve Nash and his nut huggers have turned the MVP into a total ing joke. It used to be that the best player on the best team won the MVP, now all the nash nut huggers are trying to change the defenition of the ward to what your team does while you are injured. Now a days a player has to miss 10 straight games and his team has to lose all of them in order for him to win the MVP.
suns>mavs
nash>nowitzki
you just killed the thread thanks. Now go to the spurs boards so you can amaze them with your comedy.suns>mavs
nash>nowitzki
not a problem. now try to recessitate it
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