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I know that no one will agree with me but I would rather have ppl that have my back.
By JOHN P. LOPEZ
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2911561
Do me one favor, ladies and gentlemen of the jury of public opinion. Replay in your mind's eye every moment, step by step, of Friday night's humiliating debacle between the Pistons and Pacers.
But this time replace the names on the jerseys with Spurs and Rockets.
Replace Ben Wallace's drive to the hole with one by Yao Ming. Replace Ron Artest's hack with one by Tim Duncan.
Would any of the ugliness have happened? Would it ever have gotten past the run-of-the-mill hard foul Artest laid on Wallace?
Of course Duncan commits hard fouls. He plays the game the way it is supposed to be played and taught everywhere. No layups.
And of course Yao takes hard fouls, probably more than most. He feels a certain anger boiling inside him, too, just like players everywhere.
But would that moment have gotten past much more than, at most, a glare from Yao? Maybe a hard foul on the other end or in another game?
Step two:
Suppose Yao did suffer a momentary lapse and pushed Duncan violently in the neck. Suppose a fracas of sorts ensued, players facing off, fingers pointing, words exchanged and officials and coaches stepping in.
Would it have gotten past that?
Step three:
Suppose unruly, drunk, stupid Rockets fans began hurling insults and challenges arising from drunken pride.
Don't think for a moment the things the fans did at the Palace of Auburn Hills have not occurred at every arena in the league. They have.
Beer has been tossed everywhere. Fans are, after all, drunk and idiotic. Not all fans, mind you, only the ones whose bravery and stupidity appear in direct correlation to the amount of beer they drink or the number of fellow stupid fans that surround them.
Some fans like to incite, hoping for some kind of reaction from the supposed millionaire villains. They want a little air time and maybe an out-of-court settlement.
Nothing new in the stands
I have witnessed firsthand some mind-boggling idiotic things. A drunk fan at War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock, Ark., years ago unzipped his pants and flashed an opposing player as the player walked to the locker room.
I have seen globs of guacamole dumped on Pistons coach Larry Brown, long ago during his ABA days. I have been caught in the crossfire of hooligans from England throwing bottles at Argentine players after a World Cup game in 1998.
I have seen fans from Alabama toss quarters and cups at an opposing black quarterback while directing the harshest of racial slurs at him. I have seen a Cleveland Browns fan throw a cup filled with urine at opposing players as they ran through a tunnel underneath the old Municipal Stadium grandstands.
But never have I seen anything like what I saw on TV on Friday night from Auburn Hills, Mich., and you probably have not, either.
Why? Because as much as certain fans are fools and there is no excuse for their actions, never have I seen players of questionable character like Artest and Stephen Jackson do anything more stupid than they did Friday.
Believe it when it is said that blame for the de able scene in Auburn Hills can be shared by many. Fans, security, management, coaches, players, everyone involved got caught up in this case study of an escalating mob scene.
Apologies unacceptable
But don't buy the stuff the talking heads on ESPN and elsewhere were selling, save Bill Walton. Most splashed water on the fire instead of going to the source.
Most laid the majority of blame on the fans. Some forgave Artest and Jackson's actions.
One said Artest should be suspended for two games. Two? Put a zero next to the two and you might get close to what Saturday's indefinite suspension by the NBA should be.
Another said the fans who were on the court during the melee got what they deserved.
I won't argue that point too much, considering that once the hands started flying players should have protected them-
selves from assailants. But it would be impossible to call it deserving for the fan who was sitting on the floor, raising his hands in a defensive posture, taking a brutal punch to the face from the 6-11 Jermaine O'Neal.
Artest, Wallace and Jackson — then O'Neal punching the fan who was rising from the floor — were the problem. The suspension should become the harshest possible, at least as harsh as the 60-day suspension served by Kermit Washington for his punch on Rudy Tomjanovich in 1977.
It might be easy for me to say, sure. Put in the same situation, taking a full cup to the face as I tried to compose myself on the press table, my natural instinct, yours, Yao's, Duncan's, everyone's, likely would be the same.
Retaliate. But would we?
Would we jump into the stands, pushing aside the man who tossed the cup and jump on a heckler who was seen shouting, "No, no?"
And would we want team-
mates and friends around us holding us back, shouting at us to restrain ourselves, or would we want friends like Jackson jumping in, throwing punches and escalating the disgrace?
Step four: Suppose someone threw a cup full of beer or whatever at Duncan. Would it have become a riot scene?
Artest has been among the league leaders in flagrant fouls, technicals and questionable character for quite some time. But the apologists have lined up because he can play.
Jackson has long been a problem child for coaches. Even as a teen in Port Arthur, coaches were known to prop chairs under his hotel room door on road trips, in hopes of keeping him from sneaking out in the middle of the night. But always, another team came calling. Because he can play.
If you are NBA commissioner David Stern and most of what you heard in the aftermath were excuses for Artest's and Jackson's actions, you rightly ignored them.
Security check
You allow police to handle the stupid beer-tossing, chair-throwing fans and hope the culprits go to jail. You don't put a cage around NBA courts. Animals in cages are animals. You address security across the league as soon as possible.
But your first charge was to go to the source. You suspended Artest, Jackson, O'Neal and Wallace indefinitely. You should make it 60 days, minimum.
You remind yourself the majority of NBA players are more like Duncan and Yao than Artest and Jackson. You tell Artest and Jackson the one thing they've never been told despite so much trouble.
You can't play.
I know that no one will agree with me but I would rather have ppl that have my back.
Excellent article...but after rewatching the tape many times...I'm still not so sure what O'Neal did was as bad as what Artest and Jackson did...those two guys that walked down to the court were going to jump Artest until he saw them....they went down on the court looking for trouble and they found a big fistful of it.
To me...the guy that is most in the wrong in all of this was Jack...he clearly wanted to fight, even though he hadn't been provoked...and felt no regrets for doing so.
Jack should have the toughest suspension. He didn't get popped...yet he was trying to get into a fight with the Pistons players and then he went up into the stands and started throwing punches...sucker punches I might add...and then when he left he was antagonizing the out of the fans.
Jac didn't have anyones back...he didn't keep Artest from getting into serious trouble nor did he keep Artest from getting punched...he made it worse.
You know it's funny that that author says you don't put a cage around NBA courts. I remember that at 1 time, Basketball players were called CAGERS.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cager
cager
n : an athlete who plays basketball [syn: basketball player, basketeer]
He kept artest from having a 3 on 1 instead of a 2 on 1. I would expect the same if some asshole fan tried to kick the side of duncan's kneecaps. He did keep artest from being punched from 1 out of the 3 that were currently there.
Drachen -- why didn't he just go pull Artest out?
There's no defending Jackson.
was there time? could he have stopped artest's ability to defend himself? I think if jax would have pulled artest out then both of them would have been defenceless against other team's fans
LOL! You say he went and defended Artest almost like Artest didn't run into the stands. Artest didn't need anyone to defend him until he ran into the stands and grabbed a guy. And all Jack did was get into a fight himself...Artest still got sucker punched from behind... Rasheed Wallace did more to actually protect Artest than Jack did.
You act like Artest was the victim in there...technically Jack went in there and helped him beat the out of an innocent man, and got into a fight himself...nothing more.
And those fans didn't go looking for Artest...he went to where they were and started assaulting a man.
Someone who really had Artest's back would have tried to keep him from getting hurt, getting suspended, hurting his image, hurting his team, and getting sued. Jack didn't help prevent that...he made it worse.
And now he Artest, and O'Neal, who get paid millions of dollars to help the Pacers win games, are going to be out for 30 games....and they have possibly done irrepairable damage to the Pacers' season. They did nothing more than hurt some people, hurt their team and hurt their wallets.
I don't think Jack was trying to be noble...I think he wanted to beat some ass and was looking for reasons to do so. I think Jack was being all about Jack there...watch the way he leaves the arena.
The kind of friendship that Jack offers is the kind that lets you drive home drunk.
I think Jack went in there with good intentions but retalitated after that guy threw a cup of beer at Artest. The video shows as much too. 1 punch took that guy down. Jack erred by trying to go at him again.
Some people are saying that the big dude in the sweatshirt that through punches at Fred Jones, the guy with a pass around his neck, is one of Ben Wallace's brothers. Crazy huh.
I'm calling bull on this. I'd bet Jack didn't have any good intentions. He was dying to fight. He was begging Rip to fight and Lindsay to fight before even go in there. He didn't at all try to "help" like Fred Jones or others were doing. He just tried to fight. Beer getting spilled on you doesn't mean you are threatened, and doesn't mean you have a right to start punching people.I think Jack went in there with good intentions but retalitated after that guy threw a cup of beer at Artest.
At first glance it looks like Jermaine is just looking to punch someone and the sitting fan is the easiest target. If his choice of target was motivated by something else than stupidity then maybe you have a point.
I personnaly think you don't because of how o'neal behaved after the punch, they were draging him off the court and he was trying to go back and fight the public (and a couple of times he almost succeeded).
Couldn't agree more.
Absolutely!
Look at how he behaves after his teammates catch up with and are trying to drag him away. Does it look like someone who has good intentions? or like someone who is thinking about anything else than where is his next victim?
Jermaine was definitely just looking for someone to punch...I still put it on a differerent level though...those two guys were going to jump Artest until he looked right at them...you can see it in the way they were moving towards him...they were down on the court.
So...what makes O'Neal not as bad in my book...#1..He didn't go into the stands. #2.The guys he punched had already been involved in a scuffle. #3.They were looking for trouble themselves. #4. Damn that was a good punch.
If you compare the two you are of course correct, jermaine's action are not as bad as the other two's. I think he behaved badly (maybe even more so after the punch) but was smart enough not to go in the stands.
And regarding #4: Ouch! Did you see the way the fans head snaped back(Although I agree with an earlier poster that if he did not slip his punch would have been even more dangerous)
I agree 100% with Kori and Whottt.
Duncan would never have committed a hard foul like that in the last seconds of a blowout. it makes one wonder why those integral players from both teams were even on the court with 45 seconds left in a blowout. I guess hypothetically the pope could have been out there fouling kermit the frog. this article is reaching. he's right to say the spurs would never have been involved in such a mellee. Very wrong to compare the teams.
p.s. if you'll notice from the videos, it's artest who appears to be pulling Sjax away from a fight rather than vice/versa.
Also, Jax's first punch - the straight right hit the guy Artest first grabbed and let go. This guy was staggering to get up and walk away - not retaliate at a restrained Artest.
IF Jax had any business going after somebody, it sure wasn't him.
Disagree with the author about Wallace, the only thing he should be punished for is the shove to Artest's face and throwing the towel after things had settled down some. Normally that's a 1 to 2 game suspension. It's not his fault Artest, Jack, and JO could not handle themselves when it came to dealing with unruly fans.
Here's the way I look at it: Artest is Artest. He took the fight into the stands and for that he should get the stiffest penalty. As for Jack, he was acting like an idiot and after reviewing the tape it's not really surprising that he ran into the stands when Artest did and started to fight. I see Jack as a bit of a follower. Though he's in his mid 20s, he's still somewhat emotionally immature. Put him with a stable organization like the Spurs and he stays out of trouble and he flourishes. Put him next to Artest and he's running into the seats risking million$ to avenge a thrown beer.
But now we come to the player with the weakest excuse: Jermaine O'Neal. The scuffle between Artest and that fan was over for a good 10 seconds. Artest was moving away from the area. Then from out of nowhere O'Neal comes in to beat down a much smaller fan who wasn't threatening anyone. You can at least chalk up Artest and Jack's stupidity to being a 'heat of the moment' thing.
What's JO's excuse?
I read this in the paper this morning and was going to put it in here. He hits the nail on the head, the Spurs and Rockets would never pull this stunt. Our players are much too classy and intelligent. Also Pop would have his CIA buddies eliminate them, if they would ever do something like that, that would jeopardize their season.
Now our fans are no better than these Detroit fans in any way, that is a given. I attended many many games in the Hemisfair arena whereupon the Baseline Bums, and other fans would throw beer and cokes down on the opponents every time they won a game while going to the lockerroom. Larry Brown will attest himself that he was showered with all kinds of things here in SA, including a huge bowl of guacamole. So we can not really say anything about "Detroit" fans, because they in no way have the patent on uncivil behavior.
Last edited by Jimcs50; 11-21-2004 at 11:25 AM.
that happened, in what, the 70s/???
That doesnt happen NOW is the point Jim.
Its called growing up.
I think saying the fans are no better here than there because of something that happened in the 70s is a little tough and IMO wrong
TPark, that is total ignorance on your part and I am appalled that you even say that the fans of today are more civil than 30 yrs ago. OMG, I thought you had some grey matter in that thick head of yours, but I guess I was wrong.
I hope Jackson gets 20 games, because I am out of vBookie money.
People having your back is good in the right situation...this was not that situation.I know that no one will agree with me but I would rather have ppl that have my back.
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