Offensive funk and poor defensive effort?

[Nikos]

What is up with the team offense AND defense?

Before people simply dismiss these last two losses with typical tired responses such as “the spurs just played soft on D and missed shots” or they were “tired”, I want to ask what is really the root of this teams problem? I am listening to the game on the radio and the game is going exactly like I expect it to with Memphis. Spurs throw it into Duncan he does just enough to keep the game close but won’t make the key FT or basket when the game is tied. Meanwhile Memphis is getting baskets from every single player on the floor in Crunch Time. By the sound of the announcer I can almost tell the shots are going in before he says it and that the shots being put up are clean looks. With the great interior defense and excellence of Tim Duncan, why is that Memphis is able to get to every loose ball, corral every single key offensive rebound, and stop Duncan every single time when it counts?

Just by listening to Bill Schoening’s tone I can sense Memphis is moving the ball well, getting clean looks while getting to every loose ball and converting it into a basket. Bonzi Wells had a hot shooting night, but I heard about 7 or 8 big plays and made shots from role players that seemed to come as a result of solid team play and pure hustle. Why is it that when Memphis needs a big basket they can get it from Lorenzen Wright with such ease over Robert Horry? Yet when the Spurs need a basket they turn it over, or force it into Duncan who at best will hit 1 out of 2 FT’s or miss a contested shot? Are the perimeter defenders so bad that they are single handedly losing games against mediocre teams? I just do not understand these poor performances. It makes no sense to me that every single game Memphis is able to score more off offensive rebounds and hustle than the Spurs are able to score at all. Not to mention the fact that Memphis was also getting offensive within their own typical game plan as well.

To me it seems like the Spurs game plan is
1) Jam it into Duncan, let him dominate and hope the outside shooters hit enough shots off his kickouts to put the game away early as if to avoid a potential 4th quarter collapse situation. If the game gets close and they are sitting on Duncan’s lap just let Ginobili create with 6 or 7 seconds left on the shot clock even if he has not been in a good rhythm nor touched the ball much the entire night. Result a turnover or a forced shot that ends up being blocked.
2) If that fails, give it to Parker to throw up a runner in the lane in traffic, with his best alternative being is to throw it out to a semi-open Bowen who has not hit a shot all night and of course is needed in the game because of his defensive prowess, despite the Spurs not being able to get a stop anyway when it counts.
3) Keep Horry to complete the ‘clutch and versatile’ closing lineup, he has that big shot pedigree despite his propensity to not be able to hold onto the ball nor hit clutch shots in many games lately in the fourth quarter.
4) If Barry is in the game hope that he makes all his open three pointers, otherwise the offense will tighten up in a matter of seconds, not to mention the weak team defense that will result if Bowen is not in the game.
5) There really seems to be no other options. It’s either Parker and or Ginobili are hot, or the game is pretty much decided midway through the fourth quarter when the Spurs actually win the game. The Spurs can still grind out some games with simple hustle, hitting timely threes, and riding Duncan in the post. But I have to wonder if this will actually work with any consistency or in the playoffs against teams that are more assertive on offense, while also having excellent defense.

Bottom line, something is wrong with the offense and it is quite possible it can pop up at the end of the season despite the fact the Spurs can probably win 55 just by defense, hustle, using Duncan the way they have, and have perimeter shooters hit timely shots. But in the end will Parker and Ginobili still have that confidence to make plays and be involved for most of the game, instead of being put in a situation where every shot they get is only if the offense completely stagnates and all momentum is already lost? Parker and Ginobili do have offensive talent and should not be turning the ball over 4-5 times a game on nights when they are not dominating the ball or getting several offensive opportunities within the offense. It just doesn’t make sense. The offense just seems too predictable.

The defense will come and the Spurs can win games by simply milking Duncan, hustling, and hitting timely 3’s once in a while. But the offense needs to stop becoming so predictable. I do not think the team can win the le playing games where most of Duncan’s scoring support comes from hustle players or if the team happens to be scorching hot from the outside, or if Manu or TP has a perfect offense game.

Does anyone else feel this way? Or do you think the team can win by basically being the same as last season, but this time just hoping Brent Barry hits shots than Hedo Turkoglu did not hit? Will that even be enough? Will the rest of the offense still being confident even if Barry does do better than Hedo Turkoglu? Will their be some consistency on the offensive end as opposed to the same old dominant defense that finds itself hoping it can hold up on the offensive end?

Does anyone else feel the offense is shaky and conducive to further erratic play? Some nights it looks like Parker or Ginobili are not even seeing the ball, and it seems the team only prospers when one of them gets real hot. Otherwise its just simple defense, Duncan, hustle, and occasional timely shooting that wins those regular season games but only end up becoming tougher to win in the playoffs against elite caliber teams. What do you guys think of the team, its effort overall, and namely its offensive flow?

[Nikos]

Also, what is with the turnovers in the backcourt by Ginobili and Parker?

Every game I hear of an entry pass being deflected and stolen, as if they Ginobili is telegraphing it to Duncan. Also Parker seems to be getting stripped or losing the ball a lot.

I also noticed a lot of Ginobili's turnovers come as a result of something silly like a 3 seconds call, or stealing the ball but then losing it right after etc.. Same thing happened with Horry last night with his 'butter fingers' and not being able to handle the basketball.

Is the Spurs offense just out of sync right now? Will the backcourt cut down on unneccesary turnovers? Or should we expect this all season long?

PS

Why does Lorenzen Wright always seem to do well against the Spurs on both ends every single game they meet?

[BigVee]

I think the league has a real good idea what the Spurs want to do on offense. They are jamming up the middle, making it difficult for Manu to get anywhere. Plus the subs ution patterns don't allow for any continuity. Seems like they are pre-determined no matter what is going on on the court or who has a hot hand. Time for some adjustments coach.

[smeagol]

Manu's energy level has been down for the last couples games. I will have to agree with Timvp, he is most effective when he plays 30 minutes.

TP had a decent game yesterday.

That being said, I agree with most of what you say Nikos. While I was watching yesterday's game I was thinking to myself, "How the can every single guy in this team (MEM) make a clutch shot down the stretch?. And why can't we?". I just hope the last two games were flukes, i.e., MEM played and excellent 4Q and Toronto made the come back of their lives, while the Spurs simply had mediocre showings.

Nikos, looks like Manu is comming down to Earth as you predicted.

[boutons]

Sag on Duncan and you stop the Spurs, and clog the middle for the drivers. The perimeter shooting and general offensive motion isn't strong enough to stop the sagging. Every team,scout in the NBA knows this (not that they can all execute it).

The Big Fundamental, alone, is also the Big Achilles Heel. As Duncan admitted last spring when the Spurs did well without him and then continued in the Mar/Apr streak, the Spurs are better when he is just "another option", not the first option. So why do the Spurs insist on forcing entry passes all night to a fronted Duncan, who then freeezes offense for many seconds before makine a move?

I don't know why TF the Spurs (ie, Pop) have to be learning and forgetting this stuff over and over. 13 AST @MEM was pathetic.

MEM out-hustled the Spurs last night, esp in crunch time, with Bonzi providing the difference and dagger. MEM hustled 14 ing steals! Spurs got only 4 FB points, and gave up 46 points in the paint.

Bruce and Manu play 62 minutes and get one FG between them?

Mark this game down as yet another loss where our 3 point margin of loss was less than the 6 FTs we missed. Tim alone missed more FT's than the margin of loss! Teams can/will sag and play Punk-a-Dunc, knowing he's pathologically useless at the FT line. Too many Spurs possessions terminated by a foul where we got only 1 or 0 pt on FTs, insted of 2 or 3 pts.

For all that, the Spurs lost by only one possession. But, MEM actually beat us worse than the score shows.

Spurs have started well against weak opponents, but MEM (less Posey) and the 4 next games (DAL less Dirk & Finley), all WC, will say whether these Spurs are really tough or not. They played a bad, soft game @ MEM.

[Nikos]

That is what I am saying, when the Spurs do not have the perimeter guys flowing it just goes back down to Duncan who is prone to miss FTs anyway.

Strange thing is Manu did not even attempt a three pointer? Was he pump faking 4-5 wide open ones?

[Athenea]

Nikos, fantastic analysis. I couldn’t agree more.
Did you really think that switching from Hedo to Barry would do the trick?
I keep hearing "we lost last season because of poor 3pt shooting"...well, that's a really simplistic point of view.
A revision of the offensive system is needed. Forget 4-down. Play a mix between stagnant offense (in the sense of set plays) and motion offense. We have the guys w/the skills to run that kind of offense.
Do you know why Manu improved his shooting %? Is he technically a better shooter out of nothing? Manu was playing the kind of game in which he excels, taking shots from convenient spots.
When someone hits a 3pt is almost a collective orgasm. You live bye the three, you die by the three.
If the Spurs keep the predictability as high as lately, they are in deep problem.
And I want to add one thing and it has nothing to do w/being a Manu homer: TD and Manu are in the same maturity stage. TP logically is way behind.

[timvp]

The defense will come and the Spurs can win games by simply milking Duncan, hustling, and hitting timely 3’s once in a while. But the offense needs to stop becoming so predictable. I do not think the team can win the le playing games where most of Duncan’s scoring support comes from hustle players or if the team happens to be scorching hot from the outside, or if Manu or TP has a perfect offense game.

Does anyone else feel this way?

The Spurs need to tighten up on defense. That is number one. They won't win anything unless they get the opponent's field goal percentage around 40%. They also need a better rebounding effort out of their bigmen at the end of games.

As far as the offense, I think it needs to become more predictable. The Spurs should either run 4-down, pick and roll with Parker and Duncan or a Manu iso. If they can master these three plays, they'll be fine in the fourth quarters.

I'm not a big fan of the "motion offense" because it doesn't work in fourth quarters in the playoffs. You have to rely on actual plays ... like the three listed above.

[johnny00]

Tim, pick and roll is the way to go when run properly it is nearly unstoppable, but don't you think four down is what stiffens up our offense? Especially if Timmy is doubled? Not that it isn't a good play, but the rest of the league has caught on how to better defend it.

[timvp]

4-down has won two championships. Don't mess with what will work.

[Nikos]

I'm not a big fan of the "motion offense" because it doesn't work in fourth quarters in the playoffs. You have to rely on actual plays ... like the three listed above.

Then I expect the same inconsistencies as last season from Parker and Ginobili. Only difference is they will have a few more BREAKOUT games and hopefully fine tune things such as turnovers and decision making etc... The offense just is not conducive to having consistent scoring support to Duncan night in and night out. Sure every player and team has its share of stinkers, but at this point I don't expect too much more scoring out of Tp and Manu than last season.

Well, maybe TP for now since he isn't doing as well as he should thus far. But as far as Manu goes, he HAS to cut his turnovers down and score efficiently over the course of the season. He will have his 1-7 games, but we also need more 'great' games from Manu this season. Same with TP, except he needs to be a solid distributor and decision maker when his scoring is not there.

But if this is how the team is going to be in terms of scoring around Duncan, then all I can ask for is for them to do it efficiently over the course of the season and CUT down on turnovers from the backcourt.

The defense will come. It ALWAYS does. And if it isn't quite up to par for a while, the offensive is probably running smoother than last season.

[boutons]

4-down isolation basketball sucks, is vulernable to sagging defense, and Tim is too damn slow in his decision making upon receving the ball.

If he could get the ball and IMMEDIATELY make his move or pass to the cutter or backdoor, fine. Keep the dynamics going, and the defense off balance.

But way too often, he just plays Statue of Liberty, the sag comes, he dribbles into the damn sag, turnover, or gets foul shots he misses.

[ALVAREZ6]

i just thought i'd say that im bored and i feel like saying that Manu is the man!

[Athenea]

4-down has won two championships. Don't mess with what will work.

The League and the teams were built to dethrone the Lakers...now we're the target. Or either we change or we'll lose again.

[Rummpd]

The reality is simple = play Brown, Barry and Rose more and Spurs will win more often. Brown/Barry = potential good to great per minute scorers and Rose equal hustle and all are good to very good FT shooters (which never hurts). Beno to me is also a year away right now but could improve but needs to come in when we are way ahead etc. Horry should be sat on the end of the bench period.

MadDoc