Spurs are now "the bad guys"

[Supergirl]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

This article pisses me off.

It totally ignores the fact that the Suns have been getting away with all series. Their only method of playing defense is to push off and hang off of the Spurs' jerseys (I'm looking at YOU, Kurt Thomas, Steve Nash).

The only way to combat that sort of cheating defense is to clear some space with a few elbows and knees.

Horry certainly crossed a line, but I believe he's a smart enough player to know exactly what he was doing. He wanted to send a message to the Suns to back to off and play some real defense, and he was willing to sacrifice himself being suspended to do it.

Anyone heard a statement from Horry since the incident?

The Spurs need to just show up and play hard. Win the next two games, with and without the Suns roster, and shut the haters up.

[Kori Ellis]

Horry certainly crossed a line, but I believe he's a smart enough player to know exactly what he was doing. He wanted to send a message to the Suns to back to off and play some real defense, and he was willing to sacrifice himself being suspended to do it.

I know a lot of people think it was pre-meditated, that Horry was "making a statement" and didn't care if he got suspended. I think the opposite - I think he just lost his head and I don't think Pop and company were probably very happy about it at all.

[Supergirl]

I know a lot of people think it was pre-meditated, that Horry was "making a statement" and didn't care if he got suspended. I think the opposite - I think he just lost his head and I don't think Pop and company were probably very happy about it at all.

Isn't it possible it was somewhere in between - like, he meant to be somewhat menacing about getting Bell and Nash to back off, but in the heat of the moment, with all the adrenaline, he went too far, without intending to?

I think he knew he was likely to ejected. But I don't think he meant to be suspended. Horry would want to play. And we will miss his hustle, his energy, his defense.

And, though Suns fans and Steve Kerr don't want to admit this, that capacity for situations like that to get out of control because of all the adrenaline flying is exactly why it's a good rule to not allow players to leave the bench.

What pisses me off is that the tone of the article makes it sound like all the roughness has been the Spurs doing. That gash on Nash's face back in game 1? Caused by Nash being out of control and veering into Parker? That gash on Manu's face? Caused by the Suns out of control attempts at defense. Seems to me, the Suns are the ones who should be viewed as the violent ones. The Spurs are just playing hard, and the Suns are only able to keep up by cheating on defense and playing recklessly.

[Amare_32]

I am still shocked that the League rewarded the Spurs for a dirty play. They have practically gift wraped the series for the Spurs.

[picnroll]

Screw it let the public perceive the Spurs as the new NBA bad boys.

[Kori Ellis]

Isn't it possible it was somewhere in between - like, he meant to be somewhat menacing about getting Bell and Nash to back off, but in the heat of the moment, with all the adrenaline, he went too far, without intending to? .

I don't know - to me (in re-watching it) it just looks like Horry gets pissed off that he just got pushed down by Bell, so he loses it and takes it out on Nash :shrug

[Amare_32]

Kevin Hench / FOXSports.com
Posted: 4 hours ago



Congratulations to the San Antonio Spurs on their fourth NBA championship in the Tim Duncan era.

And congrats, too, to the NBA and its idiotic, backward, zero-tolerance sentencing guidelines for making it possible.
I suspect the Spurs would have found a way to win two of the next three games against Phoenix even if Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw had played in Game 5, but now it's a foregone conclusion.





















It was a great trade for the Spurs: Robert Horry straight up for Stoudemire and Diaw.

Horry is a terrific role player and perhaps the most clutch playoff performer in league history, but at this point in his career he's just one small element of Gregg Popovich's deep rotation, and he finished 12th on the Spurs in scoring at 3.9 points a game. Stoudemire is an All-NBA first-teamer and Diaw is one of the league's most versatile players.

Even with all their weapons locked and loaded, the Suns still had precious little margin for error and needed a spectacular finish in Game 4 to level the series at two games apiece. Without their best low-post scorer (Stoudemire) and low-post passer (Diaw), the Suns are sunk.

In other words, it was a great play by Horry to body slam Steve Nash into the scorer's table and the league rewarded it accordingly. In fact, all NBA teams should employ a Bob Probert-type player for exactly these situations. Send in the goon at the end of the game to clothesline the other team's superstar in front of his bench and see how many of his teammates manage to stay in their seats with their arms folded.

Like those obscene sentencing guidelines that bind the hands of judges and make them sentence people to life in prison for writing a bad check (Texas, you can look it up), the NBA has painted itself into a corner with its asinine stance on leaving the bench.

As David Stern's lieutenant Stu Jackson said, "No one here at the league office wants to suspend players any game, much less a pivotal game in the second round of a playoff series. But the rule, however, is the rule, and we intend to apply it consistently."


Robert Horry's shove of Steve Nash may just give the Spurs the le. (Bahram Mark Sobhani / Associated Press)

As if the league had nothing to do with the stupid rule in the first place. No, Stu, the league does want to suspend players. That's why it creates Draconian, letter-of-the-law rules in the first place. Any fair assessment of the activity following Horry's cheap shot — and the conduct leading up to it — would lead one to conclude that a suspension for Stoudemire and Diaw was disproportionately harsh. But why leave room for fair assessments when you can tie your own hands with truly moronic rules that leave no room for interpretation or mitigation?

The rule was created to deter those out-of-control melees that have marred postseasons past. But clearly, in this instance, it failed as a deterrent. Two of Nash's teammates sprang to his defense after seeing their most valuable player get viciously poleaxed with 18 seconds left as he tried to dribble out the clock.

Did they punch anyone?

No.

Did they shove anyone?

No.

Did they escalate the situation?

No.

They were merely turned around by the Phoenix coaching staff and led back to the "vicinity of their bench."

But the de facto penalty — the end of the Suns' remarkable 61-win season — was as severe as if they had just come out swinging. Which sends an inane message: If you've already left the bench, you might as well get your money's worth and land a few haymakers on the guy who just cheap-shotted your teammate.

The irony here is that the Spurs — as always — have been the antagonist in this chippy series. Horry's body check was just the latest in San Antonio's fusillade of, shall we say, extra-legal conduct.

Bruce Bowen has mastered the art of fouling his man fairly constantly in a manner where the home viewers see it, the announcers see it, his opponents feel it and only the officials are blithely unaware of the stealth beating he's administering.



The perfect example of this technique occurred in Game 3 when he raked Nash's off-hand as Nash crossed over, forcing a turnover. Replays revealed a clear foul. They also revealed that referee Eddie F. Rush could not have been in better position to make the call, but — as has so often been the case in this series — he swallowed his whistle. Sometimes Bowen's mayhem is less subtle, like when he kneed Nash in the groin.

So the less-physical Suns had been knocked around pretty good in San Antonio and yet were mere moments away from slipping back to Phoenix all even with Mr. Momentum on their side.

Then Horry did his best Zdeno Chara impression, driving Nash into the boards.

The unflappable David Stern — the guy with absolutely no understanding of what it means to be a teammate or to be physically pushed to your very limits — believes that NBA players should have no reaction whatsoever when they see a beloved team member get cut down in front of them.

Or perhaps he thinks they should join hands in a prayer circle at their bench. This is all in keeping with his players-as-automatons goal for the sport. His strange, obsessive desire to wring all emotion out of the players gave us his zero-tolerance edict this season that resulted in countless technical fouls for mild protestations and, yes, sarcastic laughing.

Though he was quick to throw Joey Crawford under the bus, it was Stern and his misguided policy that produced the unfortunate Crawford v. Duncan episode.

Which brings us to the bigger picture: The sad state of the NBA. That pop you just heard is the bubble bursting on the long, uninterrupted NBA boom.)

Ask the dwindling number of hardcore NBA fans about this season and they'll tell you it sucked. Spurs-Suns was the last great hope to salvage something from this year-long walkabout in the hoop wilderness. And now Stern, via his button man Stu Jackson, has taken that away from us, too.

So now we can ready ourselves for the inevitable showdown between San Antonio and some Eastern Conference pretender — probably Detroit — and yawn our way through a series of 85-80 games in which both teams shoot 38 percent. Woo-hoo. Yee-haw.

The biggest basketball fan I know just sent me a one-line e-mail: "I hate the NBA."

Mission accomplished, David Stern.

Kevin Hench is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.

[travis2]

1-800-waa-waaa

[ambchang]

Since when has the league gone this soft? It is embarrassing to watch how the squeaky wheel is getting the grease. Did nobody watch the Rockets Jazz series? Or the Jazz Warriors series, or the Spurs Nuggets series? Those are all 10x more physical than this series, but because Amare and D'antoni is complaining non-stop about it, it makes it all more physical.
Horry's foul was nothing more than a hard foul at the end of the game. It was not necessary, and yes, quite dirty, but assessing it a flagrant 2 is more than enough. The Spurs in fact has already been hit with the lamest flagrant 1 in playoff history, and people are crying for more? Crying for suspension of Bowen on that knee was beyond idiotic. What does the public want? Suspend the whole starting 5 of the Spurs for giving an occassional elbow and knee in the thighs?
If the Suns cannot win playing run-of-the-mill playoff basketball, perhaps it's time for the organization to retool themselves for a tougher, more physical team.

[DarrinS]

A lot of people are treating this game as an easy win for the Spurs. Don't forget, the Suns can still shoot lights out and we'll see a lot of fast players on the floor tonight. Also, the Suns do have two very good perimeter defenders (Bell, Marion) and one "serviceable" big man in Thomas.

If there's anything positive that comes out of this whole fiasco, I think the NBA will either do away with the bench rule or amend it next season.

[G-Nob]

Has everyone forgotten the fact that two suns players broke the rules?!? Why is there now a rallying cry for the Suns by the national media because of it? Kenny Smith said had this been Jalen Rose and Paitkowski, nobody would be griping about this.

Also, the Spurs are getting favorable treatment from the league now? I promise you, had this been duncan and bowen instead, the only people in about this would be spurs fans.

[Amare_32]

Has everyone forgotten the fact that two suns players broke the rules?!? Why is there now a rallying cry for the Suns by the national media because of it? Kenny Smith said had this been Jalen Rose and Paitkowski, nobody would be griping about this.

Also, the Spurs are getting favorable treatment from the league now? I promise you, had this been duncan and bowen instead, the only people in about this would be spurs fans.

Is a big deal because the League in essence has rewarded the Spurs for bushleague tactics. The League should have used common sense and just fined them and move on. But again common sense and Stu Jackson is an oxymoron.

[DarrinS]

Has everyone forgotten the fact that two suns players broke the rules?!? Why is there now a rallying cry for the Suns by the national media because of it? Kenny Smith said had this been Jalen Rose and Paitkowski, nobody would be griping about this.

Also, the Spurs are getting favorable treatment from the league now? I promise you, had this been duncan and bowen instead, the only people in about this would be spurs fans.

Try to look at this from the perspective of your average NBA fan. Horry body checks Nash into the scorer's table -- Amare and Diaw step on the court, but don't get involved in the alterecation, and Horry is out 2 games and Amare/Diaw are out 1. That probably doesn't seem "fair and balanced" AND it probably makes people LESS interested in tonights game.

[DarrinS]

Is a big deal because the League in essence has rewarded the Spurs for bushleague tactics. The League should have used common sense and just fined them and move on. But again common sense and Stu Jackson is an oxymoron.

I don't think it's right, but the league has been enforcing this rule TO THE LETTER since its inception. I don't think they were going to change their ways just because it is the Phoenix Sun and they are dealing with an NBA first-team member. I think they will change the rule next year. You guys just got the ty end of the deal this time. Your asst. coaches should have been quicker to keep those guys on the bench.

[G-Nob]

Is a big deal because the League in essence has rewarded the Spurs for bushleague tactics. The League should have used common sense and just fined them and move on. But again common sense and Stu Jackson is an oxymoron.

Are you going to go back the last 15 years or so and retract every other suspension for players being on the court? Had this been Sean Marks & Pat Burke would you care?

[DarrinS]

Are you going to go back the last 15 years or so and retract every other suspension for players being on the court? Had this been Sean Marks & Pat Burke would you care?

Speaking of Sean Marks, do you think he'll see playing time tonight?

[G-Nob]

Speaking of Sean Marks, do you think he'll see playing time tonight?

Kiwi's in for big minutes tonight.

[G-Nob]

I just don't understand the "bushleague" BS everyone is throwing down. Had Bowen's crap been warrented for suspension, he would gotten it. And Horry's was a frustration foul, that I don't agree with, but it was what it was and he's paying his price.

Has anyone mentioned, Bell's elbow to Horry or Jones' undercut on Elson or Bell pushing Oberto down on a screen in game4 and 100 other things that have happened in this series no one is ing about?

[Supergirl]

Right - not only are Suns fans being pathetic crybabies about this, but they're also acting as if the Spurs only need one win to win the series.

If the Suns lose - and I still think they will - it will be because they aren't as good as the Spurs. Even if the Spurs win Game 5, which they should, but isn't a gimme - the Suns still have two more chances with their full roster. Spurs have only 1 more chance with their full roster, and that's if it goes to a Game 7. Which, I have a feeling now it will.

[Amare_32]

I don't think it's right, but the league has been enforcing this rule TO THE LETTER since its inception. I don't think they were going to change their ways just because it is the Phoenix Sun and they are dealing with an NBA first-team member. I think they will change the rule next year. You guys just got the ty end of the deal this time. Your asst. coaches should have been quicker to keep those guys on the bench.

Do you get the feeling that maybe the League will find a way to push this series to 7 games?

[bulletedge]

The NBA has been on the cusp of becoming a complete joke for a few years and has now finally completed the journey. No matter how you slice it- the suspensions of Diaw and Stoudamire are ridiculous. I know that this is a Spurs board and a lot of folks just want a trophy no matter what. But a championship this year would come with a huge asterisk...to everyone but Spurs fans.

[mrsmaalox]

Just like Nash said It's not easy always taking the high road; the Spurs have always taken that road and it is common knowledge. I can't think of a time that a Spurs player or coach has sat in the press room and complained about the refs (selective memory, maybe ) but how often do you see it from other teams? How often have Spurs players/coaches been fined for shooting off their big mouths? Not many. The Duncan/Crawford thing just proved that the officiating is not always objective and impersonal: how many other teams have complained about that? EVERY ONE. But because it was Tim of the Spurs it is now perceived as whining and NBA favoritism---wise up people, EVERYONE will benefit from it. Robert Horry is not a bad guy, just frustrated and fed up with watching his team taking hits without the benefit of a call. Right now if we could speak with the guys involved, I will bet money that Horry is remorseful and regretful, while Amare and Diaw are whining and blaming. Sad situation all the way around.

[L.I.T]

The Spurs aren't even playing particularly different from previous years. I think the league has just gotten softer around them. Do you think the Spurs would be in this situation if the other team was the Bulls or the Pistons? that, they'd have control and they'd be back in the next game. But no, instead teams in the West have developed the intestinal for ude of soft tissue.

[G-Nob]

The NBA has been on the cusp of becoming a complete joke for a few years and has now finally completed the journey. No matter how you slice it- the suspensions of Diaw and Stoudamire are ridiculous. I know that this is a Spurs board and a lot of folks just want a trophy no matter what. But a championship this year would come with a huge asterisk...to everyone but Spurs fans.

There are only two things that are rediculous:

1. The Mavs' favorable calls last year &
2. You got beat by an 8th seed.

Catch anything yet?

[Kevin Blackistone]

This just shows the degredation of our society where no one holds anyone accountable for their actions anymore. It's pathetic, and just another reason why our society is nearing the end of it's run before suc bing to the fates of the Romans, Greeks, etc...

People are actually blaming the rule for the suspensions. How ed up is that? The rule is there to keep people from the bench off the court during altercations, and is very effective in doing so. If Stoudemire and Diaw had any discipline at all they would not have broken the rule.