Nothing reserved about Spurs' backups
Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer
Tony Parker was still sitting in front of his locker almost 30 minutes after the Spurs' victory Saturday night. Someone wanted to know about the team's reserves, and Parker was patiently trying to provide as complete an answer as possible.
"Beno (Udrih) is doing a very good job," Parker said. "Brent Barry has obviously played very good. Devin (Brown) showed everybody in the playoffs last year what he can do.
"Malik (Rose) is coming back like the old Malik, coming in and being productive and bringing a lot of energy. Robert Horry brings something different with his 3-point shooting. And if they aren't doing well, we still have T-Mass (Tony Massenburg).
"Our team," Parker said before taking a breath, "is very deep."
That has come in handy of late. The Spurs' bench averaged 30.2 points during a tiring seven-games-in-10-days stretch that ended with Saturday's rout of Utah. With the team also playing its next seven games in 10 days, coach Gregg Popovich may have to lean on his reserves more than usual.
"There are certain games when the starting five doesn't have the juice and you need the bench to lift you up," Manu Ginobili said. "That happens a lot in this league, especially in a back-to-back."
The Spurs' reserves provided such a jump-start in the Nov. 19 victory at Boston. After the team fell behind by 13 points midway through the third quarter, Popovich sat Ginobili and Tim Duncan. Five minutes later, Rose, Horry, Barry and Brown — along with Parker — had tied the game.
"I can't tell you how much that means," Ginobili said. "It was a whole different game when we came back. Our energy was up. Our confidence was up."
Popovich has been especially concerned about making sure Duncan and Ginobili get enough rest. Both played in the Olympics this summer and Ginobili, in particular, has looked fatigued at times. On Saturday, each played only eight minutes in the second half while the reserves protected the team's comfortable lead.
"Any night Manu and Tim get to sit like that," Popovich said, "is good for us."
To maximize Ginobili's energy, Popovich tries to limit his time on the floor to six- or eight-minute stretches. Barry usually replaces Ginobili midway through the first quarter. Rose often replaces Rasho Nesterovic a minute or two later and Udrih takes over for Parker near the end of the quarter.
For now, Brown, Horry and Massenburg don't have nearly as consistent roles. Their minutes usually are decided by matchups, foul trouble and whether the other reserves are producing.
"You have to support each other," Horry said. "It's one common goal: to win as many games as you can and place yourself in the best playoff position possible.
"I've been on some teams where guys who think they should be playing become cancers. Then it affects the morale of the team and that's not a good thing.
"This team is very positive. Everybody supports one another — even the guys that play the same position."
Last season, Horry got the bulk of the significant minutes behind Nesterovic and Duncan. Rose has made the most of that role of late, totaling 27 points on 12 shots in the past two games. As per Popovich's wish, he has focused on running the floor, rebounding and defending.
"You can't forget the year we won the championship (2003); he was big on that team," Parker said. "If he can come back and be productive and bring energy every game, I think we're going to be a of a team."
In addition to Rose, the biggest difference from last season, Popovich said, is that the team appears to have found a dependable backup point guard. Udrih earned a rebuke from Popovich on one possession Saturday when he didn't get the team in the proper set. Otherwise, he played respectably after Parker picked up two quick fouls in the first quarter. He also has been the Spurs' most accurate 3-point shooter.
"He's a real player," Popovich said. "He's a clever little ... young lad. He gives you visions of a poor man's (John) Stockton in the sense that his timing is great on passes, the little bounce passes off pick-and-rolls, the change of pace.
"He really understands that position. But is he tough enough? Is he strong enough? Is he sturdy enough? I don't know yet."
Those aren't the only questions Udrih and the rest of the Spurs' reserves still have to answer, Popovich said. Though no one has grumbled about his minutes, the season is still young.
"We'll see if all the roles are accepted," Popovich said. "If that happens it could be the deepest team we've had."
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....a1c5bd9c.html
Amen. This team has a chance to become something special. The Utah game was a glance at what could be. Who knows what will be, will they play to their potential, with injuries, etc. But, when they are on their game, there is not a team in this league that can touch them. Their best is better than anyone else's best.
It's good to see that winners like Horry get this. It's disheartening to see that many SpursFans, like boutons, dump and Rummpd don't.
It's especially disheartening to see some fans, like oh say, TimVP for instance, who often brag about being so in touch with the team's concept of team ball and defense, don't get it, and instead would rather get moist like a teenage girl, over an Euro who has nice scoring stats, in the Euroleagues...while they take a big on team players who do get it...and play for the league min to boot.
Which Euro?
He's talking about Scola.
Link?It's good to see that winners like Horry get this. It's disheartening to see that many SpursFans, like boutons, dump and Rummpd don't.
My point is Horry is not as good as he was. He's certainly worth the minimum, but he hasn't been as clutch as you claim in some time. You agreed with that.
I said he hasn't been put in his type of clutch situation since he has been with the Spurs. He hasn't. You elect to judge him by his one missed shot as if it is the rule...when in fact it was the exception...that's a recipe for stupidity.
That's ok, you were a Malik hater too, and damned if I can find the link for that either..but you are only fooling yourself...You better go on a diet or you are going to get fat from eating your own words...
Now run along and go play with your dream team of Anthony Carter, Bobby Sura, Charlie Ward, and the immortal Karl Malone's ageless knee.
Malik is playing well, better than last year.
I said play him or trade him. He's playing well so they play him. I said he should play like he did in the championship years -- he has and EVERYONE on this board and on the team has said so. This is very simple stuff even a dumbass like you could understand.
Horry isn't playing well for the most part. They are playing him too much for what he is actually contributing. Sure, keep him on the bench for that one brief shining moment that probably won't happen. Once again you have made Mt Everest out of your molehill. You are such a ing idiot. I agree with you that Horry is worth the minimum and I agree with you that it won't have to be a Scola/Horry choice. You agree with me that Horry hasn't been clutch in a long time. And yet all you can do is .
Horry isn't playing well, and your dumbass knows it. He can't get defensive boards with you hanging from his sac like that.
Whottt may be referring to Scola (the Euro, actually an Argentine playing in the Euroleague) since Whottt would prefer Horry to some unproven-in-the-states-tweener.
Horry does have savvy, moxy and he has done well in the playoffs, but he has deserved the fewer minutes he's received this year. He and Malik have clearly traded roles thusfar. Some of the games this year, Horry has looked like a newborn giraffe trying to manuever but that happens when your knees get to a certain point, regardless of your age as compared with some of the other guys on the team (see Steve Smith, the latter years).
If Scola can prove himself, I am all for it. Personally I don't put a lot of stock in Euroleague numbers by themselves.
In the limited minutes he's getting Horry is blowing a lot of defensive assignments.
But he might make a last-second three so you have to play him regularly no matter how badly he plays....right?
wrong.Horry is blowing a lot of defensive assignments
Horry played very good Defense vs Nowitzki and Boozer.
I think most people were just disappointed in Robert's production during the Lakers' series, since he had been able to turn in up in the playoffs for them and Houston over the years. He is in decline He is no longer the default choice to close out games as the "other" big, as Pop would have hoped for.
The Spurs didn't hit shots, there was lots of blame to go around, but face it, most people were disappointed in the following from Robert:
Robert Horry 2003-04 Lakers versus Spurs Playoff Series
Game Min FG..3FG...Reb Pts
1 ..... 23 0-2 0-0 ... 5 .. 0
2 ..... 17 1-3 1-3 ... 4 .. 3
3 ..... 12 0-0 0-0 ... 2 .. 2
4 ....... 7 0-1 0-1 ... 6 .. 0
5 ...... 27 0-4 0-3 ... 6 .. 0
6 ...... 25 3-7 1-5 ... 7 .. 12
Horry has been very late on weakside rotation and lost his man in the post a number of times. That use to be Malik's role along with Malik not stopping the P&R well, getting back to his man too soon.
Horry spreads the floor but lately Malik has been hitting the 18 - 20' more often than not. Pop will play them both but eventually if it keeps going this way I expect Malik will start getting the lion's share of the minutes come March.
wrong thread
Malik is already getting the most big-man reserve minutes (17.1). Horry is currently averaging 12.8, more and more - commensurate with a vet-minimum player contribution.
Pretty much the way it should've been last year, if not for Malik's substandard play.
Solid D, that's a pretty good asessment but you still missed the forrest for the trees...
Horry has always had that funky gait that looks like a baby giraffe taking it's first steps...it's always been painful to watch him walk and run, he's always looked goofy...and something you failed to mention...he's always had negative body language that seems to scream "I am defeated"
He has had those traits since the day he came into the league....in missing that fact you have missed the true genius of Robert Horry...the main reason why Horry has done so much damage in high pressure situations...the main reason it has so often been him that opposing teams either forgot about or chose to challenge.
He simply doesn't look like a guy that can hurt you, he doesn't carry himself like a guy that can hurt you.....And in truth he isn't a guy that can hurt you offensively, as long as you pay attention to him, he isn't a guy that's going to dominate a game night in and night out, he could not really even be considered a go to guy......but bank on this...
If you fail to pay attention to him, if you doubt him, if you underestiumate him, or try to make him the fall guy for his team, he will rip your heart out and hold it in front of your face before you die....and he will sport a big goofy hayseed grin while he is doing it.
I really shouldn't have to explain this to other SpurFans...you'd think Spurfans would have learned this lesson by now.
I assure you that, despite the fact that he often looks like a guy that needs to be getting treatment in a cerebal palsy ward, he is a muti skilled bigman capable of doing just about anything he wants to do. He can shoot threes, he can block shots, he can steal the ball, he can make beautiful passes, he's got seldom used texbook perfect post up moves, he can put the ball on the floor from the top of the key and throw down a Julius Irving type dunk...he's even got a fade away jumpshot...
How do I know these things when he hasn't yet used most of them with the Spurs?
Simple, because I have seen him use all of them in key moments of big games when teams underestimated him.
He can do it all.....he's just not good enough to do it for an entire game, an entire season, or if you prepare for it and defend him with respect....
In 94-95...I remember watching a beaten down, scorless Horry get the ball on his team's final posession...and I remember thinking, thank god that loser scrub Horry has that ball and not Hakeem...and then, much to my dismay, I remember watching Horry pull off a beautiful pull up textbook jumper that I had never seen him do before, that I had no inkling he could do, and hitting the game winner. I remember later in the series he executed a perfect back to the basket post up move....catching Hall of Fame defender David Robinson with his pants totally down in the process....
I remember, countless times, him being left open from 3 in that same series against my beloved Spurs and saying to myself, there is no way in this goofy, unhappy looking, slump shouldered, , is going to hit that 3 and beat my golden boy Spurs....and I was wrong. Painfully wrong...again, and again, and again. I learned my lesson then and I have never forgotten it...
Don't judge this mother er by his stats or his appearance...just make sure you have a man on his ass and don't forget about him in the defining moments of a game...because if you think he is going to beat himself, if you think he will fail that test, you are dead ing wrong.
When he was traded for Barkley it should have been cause for much depression on the part of most Spurfans, I mean the addition of a HOF PF to a HOF center should have spelt death for my beloved franchise...but there was a part of me that was very happy to see Horry leave that team...that was happy I wasn't going to have to feel the sting of those timely 3's that killed my team time and time again when he was underestimated...that was happy my team wasn't going to be tricked into doubting him, ever again.
This was all before he went on to much the same type of success with the Lakers...
Since that time I have watched him again be chosen as the weak link by opposing teams...and again and again I watched Horry shrug off his goofyness, his apparent permanent injury, to reveal the big red
or is it a 5, behind his jersey and punish those who thought he couldn't hurt them, who thought he couldn't even walk, who thought he was finished...
That's exactly the sercret behind his clutchness, that's the secret to his closing seconds genius...I guess he knows he can't produce consistently at a high level...but what he can do is play steady defense, play smart, and bait opposing teams hoping they will choose to test him, or forget about him, in the final moments of a game...I have only seem him fail in these moments 1 time in his entire career, and that was against us...but that shot was oh so ing close to going in...watch the replay.
Yes he is slower, he has aged...but the main reason he is slower is because he put on about 20 pounds to move to the PF spot for the Lakers...a move which even Tim Duncan and Pop say made him the best Duncan defender in the NBA...I don't think it's any coincidence that among the most embarrasing moments and worst playoff series of Duncan and Robinson's careers the common denominator is Robert Horry D...either as the primary defender or as double team help....he is a smart team player and an asset to any team.
And something needs to be cleared up to set Horry's offensive performance against LA apart from that of Hedo and Bowen....Horry was drawing a defender at all times in that series...LA never tested him...they knew better...but the Spurs didn't help him...they were giving him the ball in the same spot they give it to Duncan...Horry can be of the most help out on the perimeter.
Anyway, I agree that Malik is playing better than Horry this season...but that doesn't mean I don't want Horry on this team...if only in a Danny Ferry type role. It's stupid to not keep him here....he played an important role in winning all of his rings.
Last edited by whottt; 11-29-2004 at 09:13 PM.
That is sure saying a lot in order to say that the Spurs need to hope for teams to underestimate Robert Horry in order for him to be effective.
I do know his history and he does have the potential to play well. He shows flashes of it but once again, lately he hasn't been deserving of close-out minutes of big games.
You remind me of the itching-to-fight Stephen Jackson. Everyone knows I'm the least sold on Scola out of this whole forum. You make no sense.
Give it a rest, Shane.
I'm not only saying teams need to underestimate him for him to be effective on offense...although I did say that and it is true...I went to great lengths to explain why he gets underestimated...time and time again, inspit of what is, IMO, an unmatched portfolio of playoff game winners and stand out moments.
His method works...and if you doubt this just look at the many Spurfans saying he is finished....He's burnt the Spurs more than any other team...You'd think the fans wouldn't keep making the same mistakes, you'd think Spurfans would have learned the tricky nature of his play...
But as your comments, and those of chump, and others, most notably TimVP, prove, people either don't understand what he does, when he does it, or why he is able to do it, or they else have forgotten it...Either way it doesn't speak highly for the historical knowledge of many Horry doubters.
And I'd argue that those are the only minutes he really needs to play....I think it hurts the Spurs more by not having him out there in those situations than it does Horry...I do know his history and he does have the potential to play well. He shows flashes of it but once again, lately he hasn't been deserving of close-out minutes of big games.
But at least the fact that he is on this team will keep the old "Those dumbasses that forget history are doomed to repeat it" proverb, that many SpurFans would otherwise be running headfirst to embrace in the wrong way, from biting us in the ass yet again.
I've still got no problems with Horry being on the court in key moments, and I have absolutely no problems with him taking the last shot.
Timvp is probably one of the most against Scola on the board. People bashed him all summer about it.Everyone knows I'm the least sold on Scola out of this whole forum. You make no sense.
Forgive Shane. He's too busy writing up his next fillibuster to read what other people type.
Well if you don't disagree with me then why do you keep putting your ass in front of my foot?
You remind me of the itching-to-fight Stephen Jackson. Everyone knows I'm the least sold on Scola out of this whole forum. You make no sense.
Give it a rest, Shane.
And don't give me this that you gave Horry a chance last season...you were pissed he got minutes last season, even before the Laker disappointment.
You hate Horry, just admit it.
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