More fun facts about LeBron's big game(s)

[GSH]

LeBron's game against the Pistons is proof that he is the second coming of MJ, right? No team can contain him, and he has the ability to win a game single-handedly, through sheer force of will. If (when) the Cavs advance, the Spurs are in serious danger, because they have no answer for LeBron. Right?

Well let's see. He scored 30 in regulation - a good game, but not exactly unstoppable. Then he dropped 18 on the Pistons in the two overtime periods (10 minutes), which proves that LeBron can't be contained. So what about Manu dropping 16 points on the Jazz in a 10 minute stretch in the fourth quarter of Game 4? Why aren't people recognizing that Ginobili is unstoppable? What answer will the Cavs defense have for him?

Maybe the difference is that LeBron does it all the time. I'm sure he's done the same thing dozens of other times this season. So let's take a look at LeBron's other big games:

The only other time LeBron scored more than 40 in a game this season? He scored 41, also with the help of OT minutes. Strangely, it was also against the Pistons.

He scored 39 abainst the Bulls - also overtime. But he only had 32 in regulation, none in the last 7 minutes. (The Cavs only scored 2 points in the last 7 minutes, which is the reason the game even went to OT.)

He scored 39 against the Sixers. Double overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 39 against the Mavs in regulation. Cavs lost.
He scored 38 against the Celtics in regulation. Cavs win by 1.
He scored 37 against Charlotte. Overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 37 against the Nets in regulation. Cavs Lost.

I've said it before...the Spurs won't get a trophy for beating LeBron. The trophy will be for beating the Cavs (assuming they beat the Pistons). And when LeBron throws up big numbers, his team usually doesn't fare so well.

Most of the time, LeBron puts up numbers a lot like what Deron Williams put on the Spurs. Maybe DeRon was unstoppable....but his team wasn't. And if LeBron is scoring 37-38-39 points, it's because the rest of his team sucks that night, and the Cavs probably don't win the game. The media has to try and create some kind of suspense and excitement for the finals. But Spurs fans don't. If the Cavs can manage to get past Detroit...bring em on. LeBron may be unstoppable. But the Cavs damned sure aren't.

[SAGambler]

LeBron may be unstoppable. But the Cavs damned sure aren't.

That's how I see it too. Don't know why Flip hasn't figured this out yet.

I figure LeBron is good for 25 - 30 in regulation. But it's not like we haven't had players do that to us before and still prevail.

Bron has little offensive help on that team.

So I look for the Spurs to probably try and get him to pick up his dribble, get the ball out of his hands, and make the other 4 try to beat them.

But, I still think the Pistons will win tonight and take it to 7. Then anything can happen. I'm not granting Bron a spot in the Finals just yet.

[SA210]

Bruce will step up the the ocassion.

[BreezeHillBill]

Bruce will step up the the ocassion.

Too right!

[michaelwcho]

Did you call him DeRon? I think it was like "Darren"...or is it more like ...DeBron.

[Obstructed_View]

He's got the fifth highest scoring average in NBA playoff history. Not bad for a kid. People go to an awful lot of work to prove that he isn't great. History will say whether or not he's great. Ignore ESPN and just enjoy watching the mother er play, people. Whether or not he ends up being the greatest player of all time some of you guys are going to look back one day and realize that you didn't appreciate what you were watching. That's kind of stupid, considering we are all basketball fans, right?

[sprrs]

Well let's see. He scored 30 in regulation - a good game, but not exactly unstoppable. Then he dropped 18 on the Pistons in the two overtime periods (10 minutes), which proves that LeBron can't be contained. So what about Manu dropping 16 points on the Jazz in a 10 minute stretch in the fourth quarter of Game 4? Why aren't people recognizing that Ginobili is unstoppable? What answer will the Cavs defense have for him?

It's not just that he scored 29 of the last 30 points (which would never happen on the Spurs BTW), it's the manner in which he did it. A lot of those shots were ridiculous circus shots that any other player would only pray to knock down consistently.

That being said, I agree that it's not as foreboding for the Spurs as the media makes it seem. Watching the game, it became evident how bad the rest of his team is. If they can stop the rest of the Cavs, it should become substantially easier to beat them.

[BUMP]

He's got the fifth highest scoring average in NBA playoff history. Not bad for a kid. People go to an awful lot of work to prove that he isn't great. History will say whether or not he's great. Ignore ESPN and just enjoy watching the mother er play, people. Whether or not he ends up being the greatest player of all time some of you guys are going to look back one day and realize that you didn't appreciate what you were watching. That's kind of stupid, considering we are all basketball fans, right?

agreed. just because he's not Duncan, or he hasnt won 3-4 les in 7 years or whatever means he's irrelevant in the basketball world. some people or too closely tied to the Spurs and their success and fail to appreciate what great players the league has to offer

[peskypesky]

"He was basketball's unstoppable force, the most awesome offensive force the game has ever seen...Dominating the game as few players in any sport ever have, [he] seemed capable of scoring and rebounding at will, despite the double- and triple-teams and constant fouling tactics that opposing teams used to try to shut him down."

Yet, in 14 seasons, Wilt Chamberlain only won 2 Championships. As "unstoppable" as he was, he was stopped from winning a Championship 12 times. By teams.

[E20]

LeBron's game against the Pistons is proof that he is the second coming of MJ, right? No team can contain him, and he has the ability to win a game single-handedly, through sheer force of will. If (when) the Cavs advance, the Spurs are in serious danger, because they have no answer for LeBron. Right?

Well let's see. He scored 30 in regulation - a good game, but not exactly unstoppable. Then he dropped 18 on the Pistons in the two overtime periods (10 minutes), which proves that LeBron can't be contained. So what about Manu dropping 16 points on the Jazz in a 10 minute stretch in the fourth quarter of Game 4? Why aren't people recognizing that Ginobili is unstoppable? What answer will the Cavs defense have for him?
Maybe the difference is that LeBron does it all the time. I'm sure he's done the same thing dozens of other times this season. So let's take a look at LeBron's other big games:

The only other time LeBron scored more than 40 in a game this season? He scored 41, also with the help of OT minutes. Strangely, it was also against the Pistons.

He scored 39 abainst the Bulls - also overtime. But he only had 32 in regulation, none in the last 7 minutes. (The Cavs only scored 2 points in the last 7 minutes, which is the reason the game even went to OT.)

He scored 39 against the Sixers. Double overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 39 against the Mavs in regulation. Cavs lost.
He scored 38 against the Celtics in regulation. Cavs win by 1.
He scored 37 against Charlotte. Overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 37 against the Nets in regulation. Cavs Lost.

I've said it before...the Spurs won't get a trophy for beating LeBron. The trophy will be for beating the Cavs (assuming they beat the Pistons). And when LeBron throws up big numbers, his team usually doesn't fare so well.

Most of the time, LeBron puts up numbers a lot like what Deron Williams put on the Spurs. Maybe DeRon was unstoppable....but his team wasn't. And if LeBron is scoring 37-38-39 points, it's because the rest of his team sucks that night, and the Cavs probably don't win the game. The media has to try and create some kind of suspense and excitement for the finals. But Spurs fans don't. If the Cavs can manage to get past Detroit...bring em on. LeBron may be unstoppable. But the Cavs damned sure aren't.

Lebrons points were all of field goals (jumpers/dunks/layups). Ginobili's were mostly FT's. He only had 1 FG for those 16 points.

[GSH]

He's got the fifth highest scoring average in NBA playoff history. Not bad for a kid. People go to an awful lot of work to prove that he isn't great. History will say whether or not he's great. Ignore ESPN and just enjoy watching the mother er play, people. Whether or not he ends up being the greatest player of all time some of you guys are going to look back one day and realize that you didn't appreciate what you were watching. That's kind of stupid, considering we are all basketball fans, right?

If you want to call someone stupid, check a mirror. Nobody in this thread was questioning LeBron's talent. He's a great player. But Kobe is a great player...Iverson is a great player... but they can't win a championship series by themselves. And neither can LeBron. I don't care if he has the best playoff scoring average in history, it's still a team sport. If LeBron has one glaring hole in his game (and he does) it's that he hasn't figured that out yet.

Yeh, I know he passes the ball. But when you listen to his interviews, he talks about his teammates like they are just there to keep the Cavs close so that he can win the game. It's not a subtle distinction. Manu comes off the bench for the Spurs, when he could start for any other team in the league. Tim passes the ball fully believing that his teammate is going to bury the shot. LeBron makes it clear that he IS the team.

agreed. just because he's not Duncan, or he hasnt won 3-4 les in 7 years or whatever means he's irrelevant in the basketball world. some people or too closely tied to the Spurs and their success and fail to appreciate what great players the league has to offer

Lebron is very relevant. He has great numbers. He is fun to watch. He is a great player, and he is still just a kid. But I'm talking about championship series and this year. He isn't going to bury the Spurs all by himself.

It's not just that he scored 29 of the last 30 points (which would never happen on the Spurs BTW), it's the manner in which he did it. A lot of those shots were ridiculous circus shots that any other player would only pray to knock down consistently.

And that's sort of my point - those circus shots. Near the end of the last game, he danced around until the shot clock was running down and then hit an off-balance fade-away 3-pointer. It's amazing that he hit it - and very impressive. I'm just saying that I would rather have my playoff future depend on a boring shot at the rim. Inferior teams rely on circus shots at the end because they have to. If you're an inferior team, it's great to have LeBron James taking those circus shots. Good luck winning 4 out of 7 games that way.

Lebrons points were all of field goals (jumpers/dunks/layups). Ginobili's were mostly FT's. He only had 1 FG for those 16 points.

And finally....so ing what? He got it to the rim, and forced them to hammer him rather than giving up easy points. Then he knocked down the clutch free throws. That's somehow not as good as taking off-balance fade-away 3-pointers at the buzzer?

But the point is, it isn't about Ginobili. The Spurs have a half dozen players who can put a dagger in the other team, on any given night. The Cavs don't.

And it's still a team game.

[SRJ]

"He was basketball's unstoppable force, the most awesome offensive force the game has ever seen...Dominating the game as few players in any sport ever have, [he] seemed capable of scoring and rebounding at will, despite the double- and triple-teams and constant fouling tactics that opposing teams used to try to shut him down."

Yet, in 14 seasons, Wilt Chamberlain only won 2 Championships. As "unstoppable" as he was, he was stopped from winning a Championship 12 times. By teams.

Eight of those twelve seasons was the Boston Celtics, a team loaded with Hall Of Famers. An entire wing of the HOF usually beats everyone, and that's what Auerbach's Celtics did 11 out of 13 seasons.

In a modern context, it's like if MJ's best teammate was Orlando Woolridge rather than Scottie Pippen and some other team had seven or eight HOF on the roster. MJ wouldn't have won six les either.

[E20]

And finally....so ing what? He got it to the rim, and forced them to hammer him rather than giving up easy points. Then he knocked down the clutch free throws. That's somehow not as good as taking off-balance fade-away 3-pointers at the buzzer?

But the point is, it isn't about Ginobili. The Spurs have a half dozen players who can put a dagger in the other team, on any given night. The Cavs don't.

And it's still a team game.

Those are two completely different performances one was spectacular and the other was watching a 90 percent FT shooter shoot FT's. Not only was Lebron carrying his team by himself with scrubs he was constantly getting fouled and not getting calls. On the other side Ginobili still had Duncan, Parker, Finley, Bowen, Barry etc and the fouls called on him were questionable. Lebron scored the last 30 points of his team through two OT's. Manu wouldn't last in one OT he would become too fatigued.

Comparing those two performances is like comparing apples and oranges, it doesn't fuel your arguement to use Ginobili's 16 point 4th quarter burst as unstoppable because the Jazz were fully able to stop it, they just played like boneheads.

[boutons_]

James's Growing Body of Evidence

Game 5 Performance Vaults Superstar to New Heights

By Michael Lee
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 2, 2007; E01

AUBURN HILLS, Mich., June 1 -- LeBron James arrived on Cleveland's doorstep on draft night in 2003, gift-wrapped in a shiny white suit, carrying the hype of a regal nickname and the promise that greatness would follow. Each step along the way, the nation has bore witness to James's tantalizing talents and leveled criticism whenever he has stumbled or come up short of gargantuan expectations.

Four years later, the Eastern Conference finals have become a career-defining series for James. The 22-year-old superstar perhaps has grown more over the last two weeks against the Detroit Pistons than during his first four seasons in the league. He has experienced extreme lows and highs -- none higher than Game 5 on Thursday, when he single-handedly lifted the Cavaliers to a 109-107 double-overtime victory and a 3-2 lead in this best-of-seven series with a transcendent performance that rivals any in NBA playoff history.

Michael Jordan will forever be remembered for scoring 63 points against the Boston Celtics in 1986. Magic Johnson will forever be remembered for starting at center for an injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as a rookie and posting 42 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists against Philadelphia in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals.

And decades from now, when James's career is over, people may look back on his 48-point performance against the Pistons -- when he scored his team's final 25 points and 29 of the last 30 -- as the night the would-be King attained his crowning achievement, in a building fittingly called The Palace.

"It was very Jordanesque," Pistons guard Chauncey Billups said.

"That was a phenomenal performance," said Cavaliers Coach Mike Brown, who kissed James on the forehead after the game. "My words don't do justice to what he did. He was awesome and at 22 years old, wow. That's all, wow. Wow."

James kept the win and his individual excellence in perspective afterward because Cleveland still needs one more win to complete the journey and reach the NBA Finals for the first time in franchise history. Game 6 is Saturday in Cleveland.

"We can't dwell on this," said James, a native of nearby Akron, Ohio, who knows that there is no need to get overly optimistic in a city that has felt the heartache of watching Craig Ehlo guard Jordan, the Cleveland Browns' collapse against John Elway, and the failings of the Indians in two World Series trips in the '90s.

Just a year ago, James and the Cavaliers were in a similar position against the Pistons in the conference semifinals. They lost the first two games at the Palace of Auburn Hills, won the next three and returned home with an opportunity to win the series at Quicken Loans Arena. The Pistons, though, won the next two games and the series. "This is definitely a group of guys that has a lot of fight in them, and we have to take the challenge on Saturday," James said. "When you look at San Antonio and you look at Detroit, that's what you want to be at a certain point in your career. They've done it year after year. So I respect the Pistons more than any team in the league just because I'm in the Eastern Conference, and I play against them as much as I do."

James appears to be starring in the same role -- as a one-man wrecking crew -- in the conference finals that Miami's Dwyane Wade played against Detroit last year. The Cavaliers have yet to lose at home this series, and while they are 3-3 in closeout games the past two seasons, James is playing like a man on a mission. He shouldered the responsibility before Game 3, saved his team in Game 4. Then, after coming to the defense of Anderson Varejao after Antonio McDyess's takedown in the first quarter -- chasing down McDyess and leaping over his fallen teammate before being restrained -- he put the entire team on his back in Game 5.

Still, James may face no greater challenge than Game 6 tonight. "We have got to do our best to try to win that ballgame and get to where we wanted to be all year," James said.

After Game 5, Pistons Coach Flip Saunders said the message he delivered to his team was, "We've been here before and we've got to regroup and get it done."

Indeed, Detroit has come back to win Game 6 on the road after trailing 3-2 in a playoff series in each of the past three seasons -- against New Jersey, San Antonio and Cleveland, respectively -- but this series has a different feel about it for the Pistons. After each loss to the Cavaliers, the Pistons players have expressed the same confident bravado of years past, but the tone has obvious cracks.

They have been outplayed for most of this series and have been unable to intimidate James and Cavaliers in crunch time the past three games. The poise the Pistons once displayed has been absent; replaced by images of Rasheed Wallace angrily tossing his headband and later his jersey off a wall and into the face of teammate Will Blalock, and Billups failing to live up to his nickname, "Mr. Big Shot."

Billups hit a three-pointer that gave Detroit a 91-89 lead with 23 seconds left in regulation on Thursday, but he missed shots that could have won the game in regulation or forced a third overtime. Billups had just one turnover in Game 5, but he has committed as many turnovers in this series as he did in the previous series against Orlando and Chicago combined (23). He explained his shortcomings this series, saying, "I'm human, dawg."

James looked anything but human in the fourth quarter and two overtimes on Thursday, when it seemed as if he was the only Cavalier on the floor -- and the Pistons were at his mercy. He had back-to-back windmill dunks in the fourth quarter, shot over double-teams, hit a difficult, step-back three-pointer in front of the Pistons' bench and elevated to heights only he appeared capable of reaching. Then, with the score tied at 107, he drove around Billups, dipped into the lane and powered home an underhanded layup despite getting whacked by Pistons reserve Jason Maxiell.

The show was so surreal that Cavaliers forward Drew Gooden has started to call his teammate "Video Game James."

"I felt like I was playing a video game out there with the Cavaliers, just watching him take over," Gooden said.

[td4mvp21]

You can't take James' performance lightly. He is dangerous and if you don't contain him you face a high possibility of losing the game. But, people forget that the Cavs have a hard time closing out games. They did last game. There shouldn't have been a second overtime had the Cavs capitalized on their situation. And there shouldn't have even been a first overtime had the Pistons capitalized on theirs. The point I'm trying to make is that the Pistons squandered several opportunities that could have pushed them to a win, as did the Cavs. The Cavs made/do make pretty consistent mistakes in crunch time, when the game is close. The Pistons, this series, have not been too good in close situations with the exceptions of Games 1 & 2. The Spurs must do what they have done all season and execute in the crunch. If they do, they should be fine against either team.

[Manudona]

Those are two completely different performances one was spectacular and the other was watching a 90 percent FT shooter shoot FT's. Not only was Lebron carrying his team by himself with scrubs he was constantly getting fouled and not getting calls. On the other side Ginobili still had Duncan, Parker, Finley, Bowen, Barry etc and the fouls called on him were questionable. Lebron scored the last 30 points of his team through two OT's. Manu wouldn't last in one OT he would become too fatigued.

Comparing those two performances is like comparing apples and oranges, it doesn't fuel your arguement to use Ginobili's 16 point 4th quarter burst as unstoppable because the Jazz were fully able to stop it, they just played like boneheads.

E20, The most important differences I see are that while Ginobili was HAMMERED several times by the Jazz thus going to the line, the Pistons were quite soft, you say he was constantly fouled, I did not see that, and even if he was fouled, it was not a foul that could stop him, like, for an obvious example Okur hitting Ginobili, and the credit to Manu was that he was not afraid of going back for more, where others might've some doubts. I really think that the Pistons were waaay to soft. Another thing I do not understand was the last play of regular time, why Billups tried a three pointer instead of a penetration, just one free trhow and the Piston would've been the series leaders.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu' game and other big 4th quarter scoring games like SG's Wade, Kobe, and Manu do, are different.

On the "statsheet" you can undderate Lebron's "big performance" but,

all you have to do is just to have watched the game, to see that it was a little more special, than just the numbers. When Webber had that 3 point play with about 30-20 seconds left, you'd think the pressure was on, but Lebron just went and answered with a spectacular three. Lebron willed all his shots in, there was no doubt that Cleveland was gonna it up in OT.

All of Lebron's shots in OT were to put Cleveland at an advantage, none of them were in the bonus, or after the fact that Cleveland had took the game. So that's what made all his shots more amazing.

[ponky]

the best stat? he scored twelve points in the first half with ONE field goal...get ready for some eastern conference superstar treatment spurs!

[Capt Bringdown]

the best stat? he scored twelve points in the first half with ONE field goal...get ready for some eastern conference superstar treatment spurs!

Uh-uh...14 of this 19 points from the FT line.

[E20]

E20, The most important differences I see are that while Ginobili was HAMMERED several times by the Jazz thus going to the line, the Pistons were quite soft, you say he was constantly fouled, I did not see that, and even if he was fouled, it was not a foul that could stop him, like, for an obvious example Okur hitting Ginobili, and the credit to Manu was that he was not afraid of going back for more, where others might've some doubts. I really think that the Pistons were waaay to soft. Another thing I do not understand was the last play of regular time, why Billups tried a three pointer instead of a penetration, just one free trhow and the Piston would've been the series leaders.

The reason that Lebron isn't affected is because of his pure strength. If Ginobili were being fouled like Lebron was he would've felt the effects much worse and they would have been visible to the viewer and I'm pretty sure it would warranted a call. Lebron can barge through Wallace and Webber and get held and we wouldn't see anything on the TV. The point being was Lebron wasn't looking to shoot FT's, while Ginobili was. Oh yeah, I may look like a Manu hater, but actually he is my favorite, hence the name E20 = Emmanuel Number 20, but you can't compare Manu's 16 point 4th quarter to Lebron's performance.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

The reason that Lebron isn't affected is because of his pure strength. If Ginobili were being fouled like Lebron was he would've felt the effects much worse and they would have been visible to the viewer and I'm pretty sure it would warranted a call. Lebron can barge through Wallace and Webber and get held and we wouldn't see anything on the TV. The point being was Lebron wasn't looking to shoot FT's, while Ginobili was. Oh yeah, I may look like a Manu hater, but actually he is my favorite, hence the name E20 = Emmanuel Number 20, but you can't compare Manu's 16 point 4th quarter to Lebron's performance.

On that last layup gamewinning shot, I think he got fouled on it, you can see an arm grazing his body. But Lebron's just so powerful he can go through arms and fouls like he's playing with a bunch of school girls. Lebron has no reason to be afraid of anyone on the court.

[Manudona]

The reason that Lebron isn't affected is because of his pure strength. If Ginobili were being fouled like Lebron was he would've felt the effects much worse and they would have been visible to the viewer and I'm pretty sure it would warranted a call. Lebron can barge through Wallace and Webber and get held and we wouldn't see anything on the TV. The point being was Lebron wasn't looking to shoot FT's, while Ginobili was. Oh yeah, I may look like a Manu hater, but actually he is my favorite, hence the name E20 = Emmanuel Number 20, but you can't compare Manu's 16 point 4th quarter to Lebron's performance.

That is a very weak argument! If Lebron is so Strong, why he went to the floor today when 'Sheed fouled him with much less violence than when Okur fouled Manu? And I am not comparing in the same sense as the original poster, what I am saying is that the FTs of Manu came because he was hard fouled several times, while Lebron was not even touched (in general, not saying that there might have been one play or two where he was fouled or one play or two where Manu was not)