That's just mean. I think I can paraphrase what they might say:
The refs suck. Manu is a flopper. Bruce is dirty. Tony is French. Tim doesn't have any major endorsements. Mike Brown should be fired. It's not fair that the Spurs get away with playing that gay Euro ball. The series is fixed. San Antonio is full of dirty Mexicans. Mexican food gives me the s.
Did I miss any major points?
the part where i was supposed to laugh.
actually the Tim line was kinda funny
I wasn't trying to be funny.
I've already heard it froms ome... They'll just try to blame it al on Mike Brown (who is partially at fault).... and say the Cavs are playing like ....
but according to them, the Spurs don't have anything to do with it...
Cavs grade - C-
Offense - terribly inconsistent. Mike Brown still hasn't figured out that getting the ball to Lebron and then having 4 players stand and look at him isn't effective. Cavs starters (Z, Gooden, Hughes) have provided nothing at all. Z's trying too many hook shots when he is a great face-up, spot shooter. Gooden is always out of position and getting beat to loose balls. Hughes, well Hughes couldn't hit the side of a barn. Pavlovic has ups and downs - gets some good shots or drives, but is still inexperienced and "edgy". From day one this has lead the Spurs defense to do the following - everyone focuses on Lebron and could care less about other offensive players. Offense comes to life when Daniel Gibson is on the floor. He's a young guy hitting big shots, which allows Lebron to get to the hoop. Mike Brown is still -bent on Hughes playing at least 25 minutes with no productivity on either side.
Defense - first half of game one was pretty solid, minus letting Parker dance in the lane whenever he wanted. The 3rd Quarter Plague that has been with the Cavs all year was back again. In game one, moving Lebron on Parker was a good move. Parker had a much more difficult time getting to the hoop. The terrible defense carried over into game two. In game two Lebron picked up his two fouls because Z was way out of position. For some reason Hughes was back on Parker - getting beat easily. Granted Hughes has a partially torn muscle in his foot, but his defense (one of his "staples") has been atrocious. Gooden has never been a prime defender, and never will be. He's too easily distracted and caught out of position. Z, who isn't a shot blocker, seems to think that merely putting two hands in the air will effect Duncan's close-range shots. Terribly wrong. Gibson and Snow have both done well defensively in their limited minutes. Parker isn't getting into the lane as much, but when you're getting all the bounces like game two that doesn't matter much. Gibson's only defensive lapse was being baited into Ginobli on the three attempt. Ginobli was able to lean to his right just as Gibson flew by, drawing the contact.
Officiating has been fine. My only gripe is twice Lebron has been blindsided by Oberto, and there has been no calls. Oberto also gets away with a little arm-hooking on a lot of box outs, but then again a lot of players do. Other than that, there have only been a few blown calls. Cavs got away with a charge in game one that was pretty obvious to me, and Parker got away with an easy-to-call travel in the 4th quarter of game two.
Coaching - well, this is obvious. Mike Brown is a young coach, and his inexperience is apparent. His inability to properly adjust on both ends is extremely problematic. He seemed to have this fixed in the Detroit series, but has since relapsed.
Overall, the first two games have been what I expected. The Cavs only player with finals experience is Eric Snow. No one else has ever been in the Finals, and that's clearer than water. The Spurs are a veteran team that have been in this situation before. They outmatch the Cavs in every position besides one. Unless someone on the Cavs can step up and help out Lebron, the next two games will be Spurs victories. However, playing at home will help the Cavs...
Which brings me to my next point - what is with the Spurs fans at the games? Don't they realize it's the NBA Finals? Crowd interaction/noise has been pretty bad. Maybe I'm spoiled by the Cavs home games because they're insanely loud (I've seen countless people pull out ear plugs, even in the upper concourse).
And on to my next point - is that Bill Gates doing the PA announcing? Whoever it is, his voice seriously irks me.
And lastly, all the criticism of Lebron is re ed. The guy is 22 years old, and in the finals for his first time. He carried his team to where they are, and he needs some serious help. He has no real supporting cast that can alleviate the pressure that is on him, and without it it's 1 on 5. Not only that, but he is going against one of the best defensive teams over the last several years. All the attention is on him when he's on the court, and to think that he can single-handedly beat the Spurs (as he's expected to by many) is a joke. It's clear how much Lebron is helped out when his teammates start hitting shots. Just look at what Gibson does - a couple jump shots and next thing you know Lebron is getting to the rim with relative ease.
*Excuse spelling and grammar. I was eating pasta as I typed this.
Thanks FlatMan, good analysis and nice honesty.
I agree that the officiating has been good with a few exceptions. I saw an obvious travels by Parker that weren't called in the last game but I also saw LeBron nail Ginobili with an elbow to the face and simply proceed on to an And 1. All and all though, I typically agree with what you had to say.
Last edited by Darkwaters; 06-11-2007 at 06:22 PM.
Nice one, Flatman. Are you sure you're a Cavs fan. Usually when opposing fans come on here, they are full of denial and strange ideas about things. I think I agree with just about everything you said.
Except, Larry Hughes was never a defender, he just can steal the ball. Notice that the Spurs don't steal the ball all that much, but they can defend.
Thats a good point. There is a big difference between somebody that sacrifices position for a potential steal and somebody that simply plays good defense.
I always get a kick out of these basketball video games that have Bruce Bowen as an absolutely masterful theft artist. Hes not bad, but hes hardly the standard.
thanks flatman
you watch cavs all the time
I was wondering what grades you would give them
How do you loose and still get a C?
some players get c and d when spurs win
I'd beg to differ. In Washington he was a good on the ball defender and really good about keeping his player in front of him. Steals aside, his length and speed (former) made him a good guard cover.
Also, I hate people who are homers, which is why I tell it like it is. There is nothing worse, especially on message boards, then a straight-up homer.
I dunno about the elbow, I'd say that was Lebron going in motion to the rim - pulling the ball close to his chest to protect the ball, thus pulling his elbow back. If I had a replay I'd point it out, but to me it really looked like he was cradling the ball towards him and Ginobli's face was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
A C-
Achieving less than average.
Just like Manu did to Ron Artest last year. It was incidental contact. The only thing that annoyed me was all the phantom three second calls.
Flatman,
First of all, fantastic summary, THANK YOU!
I have added some comments interspersed below...
I agree, since this has been quite obvious. I am surprised by Cavs' the lack of movement in offense. More on this below.
Z's is not getting the ball in his sweet spots. I think Mike Brown should try running some isos for him in the low block ala Spurs' 4-down and see how he reacts. His production has been horrid on offense.
Gooden needs a good kick in the balls to wake the up. When his offense is not going, he completely disappears from the game. He is very one-dimensional in this regard, but what is new.
I believe this is combination of two things. I think the man is seriously hurt and he has not yet faced a defense as stringent as the Spurs in the playoffs. I would cut down his minutes.
IMHO, he has been one of the bright spots on the Cavs offense. He is tall, and can take it to the rack.
There are a couple of things that I would do if I were Mike Brown. Please note that I will be trying this because I would be in semi-desperation mode trying to defend home court. In no particular order or combination:
- Do not run screen and rolls for Lebron at the top of the key. He is more than capable of getting rid of his defender(s) (Bowen and/or Manu) w/o any screen. Setting up screens allow the Spurs' bigs to show up hard and follow up on Lebron, giving enough time to the small defender to go under the screen. The Spurs have run this to perfection in the first two games.
- If Mike Brown insists on running screen and rolls, then ask Lebron to try to split the defenders and penetrate instead of trying to overpower them on the wide side. He would be much more dangerous if he could penetrate vertically instead of laterally. He has to mix it up a bit.
- Run, run, run. Try to go small on certain times of the games to see how the Spurs adapt. The Spurs have been able to run with Phoenix and Denver, so this is not an easy task, but at this point it is worth trying. I would put on the floor a lineup of Gibson, Hughes, Pavlovic, Lebron and Varejao. Lebron is more than capable of defending Oberto and/or Horry, and after a defensive rebound I would like to see them run fast on the break. Opening the floor may make transition opportunities easier for the rest of the guys, in particular, Hughes and Pavlovic.
I think Lebron is so instrumental on offense, that he cannot afford picking up fouls by helping from the weakside on the paint. Those fouls are easy to call by the refs.
Regarding Parker, I think there was a good adjustment in game two. Let Parker take shots from the outside and back up on him. If he beats you from the outside, so be it, but if a couple of shots do not fall, it might be a long night for him. Do not let him penetrate, because this is when he is at his best.
I think the guy is playing hurt and he might be a little nervous being in the Finals and all. I would reduce his minutes if his non-production continues.
Gooden exemplifies what is wrong with basketball these days. Most young fellas believe the only important part of the game is offense, and being athletic, make spectacular blocks swatting the ball to the third row, and making dunks for ESPN highlights is the only important think in the game. Defense is only an afterthought. What I find funny is that when guys like Gooden find any offensive rhythm, they start feeling good about themselves and this usually translate in better defense.
It is difficult to teach and old pony new tricks. I think Z is what he is, and he is doing the best he can, which is not great.
I think both Gibson and Snow are two small to contain Ginobili. I would try putting Pavlovic on him. One thing that the Spurs have not used much (only 2 times in the first 2 games if I recall correctly), is to post up Gino when being guarded by one of the smurfs. Both times Manu scored easily. The main problem for this match up is that if you give Manu room to maneuver, he is more than capable of killing you from the outside.
There were many missing/wrong call, but nothing out of the ordinary so far.
It is clear that Mike Brown is a great defensive coordinator, but the Cavs don't have yet the experience to run a more effective offense. Part of this is lack of personnel, part is lack of preparation during the off season, which is when you introduce new concepts and practice.
The playoffs only start when one time breaks the home court advantage. The only thing the Spurs have done so far is defended its home court. The result of game 3 will be critical do determine the tone of the rest of the series.
It is a combination of multiple things. First of all, Spurs' fans are quite spoiled in recent years with all the success the team has had. Second, the majority of the fans who might be loud and noisy fans may not afford getting good seats close to the action. Many people that are richer and can afford good seats tend to be quieter... this is human nature, basketball is just entertainment. Finally, I wonder if the acoustics of the ATT Center and the position of the floor mics have something to do with it.
I cannot agree with you more.
Lebron is a wonderful talent and a great player. IMHO, he is still young and too full of himself. With tremendous popularity and endorsements comes great criticism when things go wrong.
Note this is not a critique toward him, most of the young talent players in the league are similar. By the end of the regular season, I've heard interviews with Agent Zero, AI, Kobe, and Wade and they were asked for the top 5 clutch shooters, or the top 5 guards, or something like that. All of them included themselves in their lists. In my profession, I would be ashamed of myself if I were to do something like that, even if I were the absolute best. I think it is a cultural issue that transcends basketball.
I completely agree. I'm from Chattanooga, TN...i fly down for game two, i'm at the game having a good time....and then STAN starts whining on the PA...i can't take it!!!!
no he won't go!
no ..........he won't go!
no .........................he won't go!
They would not do that would they?
Ok ..... guess they would.
It's good to see all but one Cavs fan went MIA.
I used to loathe Stan Kelley's voice as well, it's more suited for a shriner's bingo game than the NBA....but I've grown to embrace his crappy voice due to his enthusiasm for the team. Anyone know how long he's been doing the games?I completely agree. I'm from Chattanooga, TN...i fly down for game two, i'm at the game having a good time....and then STAN starts whining on the PA...i can't take it!!!!
did you notice in one 3 second call, everyone was outside of the paint? How can that be called if the guys are outside of the paint? Weird...
I would give them a "C". I don't think most Cavs fans actually saw them winning one of the first two games. I think they have played to their abilities though. They are what they are, they play good defense, but the Spurs play it better. They have always been a average to poor offensive team, and they are living up to those expectations. I as a Cavs fan do see some concern though (as well as my gripes) and they inclue these:
-Mike Brown is NOT a NBA head coach. He has brought a defensive mentallity to the table for the organization, and it has worked. But my NBA coaches don't just coach one side of the ball. He is a great defensive coach, but saying that he is a poor offensive coach is simply being kind to him. They need help offensivly, becuase right now their offense is just give it to Lebron and hope he gets it done.
- Mike Brown gets out coached every game. Taking Lebron out of the game in the first quarter during game 2 was the dumbest move I have ever seen him make (which is saying alot). Not only has Lebron fouled out of just 2 games in 4 years, but he is our offense. Taking him out so early took him away from gaining any sense of flow within the game. Now he re enters in the 2nd and needs to find his shot quickly. Normally you have a couple minutes in the first to adjust.
-On Mike Brown again, check out his inbound plays. Sometimes I think they don't even talk about basketball during time outs. I've never seen a NBA team make more mistakes off inbound plays than the Cavs this year. Not only that, they rarely have plays drawn up to have easy looks for a basket, something that should be done on every play following a T.O.
-Larry Hughes- it's nice he is "gutting it out" for this series, but I frankly would like to see him sit on the bench. He is the most inconsistant player in the East. He is the East's version of Kwame Brown. He was signed by the Cavs during the summer we went after Ray Allen and Michael Redd. The problem is he has never been a outside shooter, he was always a slasher who go his points taking it to the bucket. Now, I'm not sure if they tell him to shoot, or he thinks he can shoot, but if he shoots 4 three pointers a game , he is taking 4 too many. He has no outside shot, and the problem is he doesn't know that.
-Drew Gooden- his offense alot of times covers up the terrible job he does on defense. I have counted over 10 times in this series where he fails to defend a backdoor becuase he is out of position. He closes out on doubles he shouldn't, then leaves guys wide open under the basket.
Those are my gripes, I'm sure there are more but I can't think of them right now
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