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spread the word nigs
It strikes me as fascinating that all of the trades we are hearing about involve teams trying to acquire another team's PRIMARY STAR for secondary players and filler.
What ever happened to swapping your star player for someone else's and a finding a few role players who fill out the team better? For example, Dallas choked in 2006 and then got handed their heads in 2007, yet they are saying that Dirk is off limits... why? Isn't he a large part of the reason they can't get over the hump? , if I were them I'd be shopping Dirk and JET and rebuilding around Howard. You could make the same comment about the 2000-02 Spurs and why they didn't shop Duncan, however you'd be an idiot because it was clearly the guard play and perimeter defence that killed those teams (and improved vastly with the arrival of Manu and Tony), as we around here all know...
Minne seems to be the only team dangling its primary guy out there. I guess the reason other teams don't want to swap their primary guy for KG is his proven inability to improve the players around him. He is also not the clutchest of players, although he makes the odd amazing shot to clinch a game. KG is an odd commodity - a fantastic balla with a HoF game who seems not to have what it takes to win. Make him second banana on Dallas or Phoenix and it'll be a tough year for us next year, but i don't see who can deliver enough to Minne to get that done.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 06-26-2007 at 11:47 PM.
spread the word nigs
Amare is now a "secondary player"?
Amare is now a "secondary player"?
No post defense with Steve Nash on your team pretty much guarantees you aren't the go-to guy. Way to respond intelligently though. All those smilies really get your point across.
By all accounts, Phoenix is trying to trade Marion, not Amare, for KG. And I don't see Marion as even a second banana on a championship-level team, although he's paid like a franchise player.
Thank you Genghis. All the word I've been reading says Amare is not on the table, Marion is the guy who's being shopped. That's my point, 10 years ago the Suns would've swapped KG for Amare or the Lakers KG for Kobe, shuffled their role players and had another shot, but this offseason everyone is trying to get a superstud player for 50c on the dollar.
I guess it is partly because it is early in the trade season, partly because it's pre-draft, and partly because there are so many superstud and solid franchise players on the market this year, and finally so many teams who know they have to improve to have a chance against us.
I don't understand why the Suns don't accept a KG for Amare and say Ricky Davis-type swap. Nash, Bell, Marion, KG, Thomas with Davis/Barbosa/Diaw and Banks to spark off the bench - ouch! After Nash declines, which is only a max of 3 years away, Amare is not going to carry your franchise - he's great and exciting but he'll never be Duncan - so you may as well put KG with Nash and see if they can get it done.
I can see the other side of that too - Amare is a crowd pleaser, young, who knows where he'll go, but I think their immediate window closes with Nash, who is in the class of Stockton and Thomas as great PGs of the last 30 years.
Don't forget to add Parker to that list.
And no, I'm not being a homer - I think Tony Parker is as important player for San Antonio as Tim, Bruce and Manu.
We don't win 3 Championships without Parker.
Nope, Amare is part of the deal that is being talked about.
Hey, I love Tony, and I think he took a leap into the top 5 PGs in the league this year, but I'm not sure he's in the Stockton/Thomas/Nash echelon yet... but then he has two rings and two of those guys don't have one, so maybe he should be there.
Let's put it this way, I think Tony will be in that class in a few years, but I'm hesitant to put a 5th year player in that group.
And none of that is Tony-hating. I've never been a Tony hater. In fact, I've vastly enjoyed watching as each year he has added to his game and presence, and this is his year. VIVA LA TEEPEE!!!
Nope, Marion has been in at least three deals that I have read on ESPN and Truehoop AND HAVE REFERENCED (LINKED) IN OTHER THREADS.
Amare is what Minne WANTS, Marion is what the Suns are willing to part with (at this early stage of negotiations).
I'm predicting Amare to Atlanta, Atlanta's #3 and #11 to Minnesota, Garnett to Suns.
Haven't heard that one, and it doesn't make much sense. Atlanta need a point guard and probably want to take Conley or Law. If the Suns are willing to part with Amare, why not simply swap him for KG and whatever filler satisfies both teams? Say Amare, Banks and X for KG and Davis?
Did I misread? Parker has 3 rings.Hey, I love Tony, and I think he took a leap into the top 5 PGs in the league this year, but I'm not sure he's in the Stockton/Thomas/Nash echelon yet... but then he has two rings and two of those guys don't have one, so maybe he should be there.
Let's put it this way, I think Tony will be in that class in a few years, but I'm hesitant to put a 5th year player in that group.
And none of that is Tony-hating. I've never been a Tony hater. In fact, I've vastly enjoyed watching as each year he has added to his game and presence, and this is his year. VIVA LA TEEPEE!!!
There's no way the Suns do the trade as rumored where they trade both Amare and Thomas in one fell swoop, losing both their centers. Also, that 2008 Atl 1st becomes next to nothing if they choose to help the Hawks.
That's not happening. They'll cut their losses on the Garnett trade, do the rumored Charlotte deal and draft a young replacement like Noah or Brewer. If Brewer, then they'll look to move Diaw to the for an additional top-20 pick.
Kori posted this last night. They even talked about this on ESPN this morning saying that Phoenix has now put Amare in the trade talks.Nope, Marion has been in at least three deals that I have read on ESPN and Truehoop AND HAVE REFERENCED (LINKED) IN OTHER THREADS.
Amare is what Minne WANTS, Marion is what the Suns are willing to part with (at this early stage of negotiations).
Garnett talks now include Suns' Stoudemire and third team
By Chad Ford and Marc Stein
ESPN.com
There was a growing sentiment around the league Tuesday night that the Kevin Garnett sweepstakes are nearing a conclusion and that the Phoenix Suns are the most likely winners, with two trade scenarios emerging that could potentially land Garnett in the desert by draft night.
With the Los Angeles Lakers' attempts to construct a multi-team deal or a direct trade with the Minnesota Timberwolves collapsing, ESPN's Jim Gray reports that talk of a potential three-team trade that would involve Minnesota, Boston and Phoenix has been rekindled, in which the primary cost to the Suns would be All-Star forward Shawn Marion moving to the Celtics.
Yet an even bigger trade concept, ESPN.com has learned, was hatched Tuesday by the Wolves, in which Phoenix would likely be asked to trade away the player it has been trying not to trade, All-NBA center Amare Stoudemire, who would go to the Atlanta Hawks.
Either way, indications from various NBA front-office sources suggest that Garnett being moved in conjunction with Thursday's draft looks more likely than ever before, with the Suns -- identified by ESPN.com last week as KG's first choice for a new home -- in prime position to make the big score.
In the scenario reported by Gray, Garnett would go to Phoenix, Boston would land Marion and the Wolves would receive a package featuring the No. 5 overall pick in Thursday's draft along with undisclosed players from the Celtics and Suns.
The key stumbling block for Boston would be Marion's reluctance to play for the Celtics, which sources say was conveyed to both teams last week when the idea of a three-team trade involving these clubs was first made public. With Marion possessing the right to opt out of his contract after next season and become a free agent in July 2008, Boston would undoubtedly be seeking assurances from Marion's camp that he's interested in signing an extension with the Celtics, even though league rules technically would preclude such negotiations until after July 1 (and after the trade).
Another possible stumbling block: Minnesota, sources say, has been adamant that any trade with Boston would include Al Jefferson. The Celtics, in turn, are willing to part with Jefferson only if they're the team that gets Garnett. It remains to be seen if either side softens its stance in the final hours before the draft.
In the newer trade scenario, sources say, Minnesota is looking to acquire Atlanta's No. 3 and No. 11 picks in the draft along with several cap-friendly contracts from the Hawks and Suns. To participate, Atlanta wants Stoudemire from Phoenix.
Such a trade would hold significantly greater appeal to Minnesota than any Celtics' offer that didn't include Jefferson. The Hawks, meanwhile, would be able to reunite Stoudemire with ex-Suns teammate Joe Johnson and immediately field a promising big-and-small core to build around and make Atlanta compe ive, given the current state of the Eastern Conference.
The Suns, though, are understandably reluctant to part with Stoudemire after he made the All-NBA first team in what appears to be the most successful comeback from microfracture knee surgery that the NBA has ever witnessed.
The Lakers, meanwhile, haven't abandoned all hope of partnering Garnett with the increasingly frustrated Kobe Bryant just yet. Another concept in circulation Tuesday raised the possibility of a multi-team trade in which the Indiana Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal would go to Atlanta, with Lakers forward Lamar Odom and young center Andrew Bynum heading to the Pacers. That package, at worst, would send the No. 3 pick in the draft to Minnesota as the main payoff for Garnett.
But the Suns increasingly look like the favorites, given that Phoenix is Garnett's preferred destination if he has to leave the only NBA city he has ever known and with the Suns clearly possessing more trade assets. The Wolves are looking for a combination of high draft picks, top young talent and expiring contracts to provide cap relief. The Lakers don't have a draft pick higher than No. 19 to offer and Minnesota, sources say, is not interested in Odom because of the two years and nearly $28 million left on the lanky lefty's contract.
It's believed that the Suns will continue trying to keep Stoudemire out of any deal, but sources say that the athletically gifted 24-year-old is not untouchable -- not with the Wolves having finally made the philosophical commitment to end the Garnett Era after years of speculation and with Phoenix feeling as though there is no better player it could acquire to counter San Antonio's Tim Duncan, who is seen as the Suns' biggest obstacle to getting out of the Western Conference playoffs.
Sources say Minnesota, furthermore, clearly hopes to complete a Garnett trade before the draft begins in hopes of securing a pick in first half of the lottery to go with its own No. 7 selection. The fact that Wolves owner Glen Taylor left the country for China on Tuesday afternoon for his honeymoon doesn't appear to have slowed the Wolves down at all.
Yet it remains to be seen if the Hawks, who have been notoriously reluctant to make roster moves of any sort for months because of their uncertain ownership situation, will actually commit to join in on a trade of this magnitude.
In any case, it's a trade that, even without completion, has seemingly eclipsed one of the most anticipated drafts in years.
If Phoenix wants KG they will have to part with Stoudemire.
That's all good and fine, but that's not necessarily truth. However, if it comes down to it, they'll either trade Amare to Boston, rather than Atlanta, therefore not weakening their 2008 Atl 1st, or they'll pull out of talks.
There's NO WAY Amare goes to Atlanta. On top of everything, JJ left Phoenix because of Amare. He hates his at ude and desire to be the man. It directly conflicts with JJ's desire to be the man. They clashed on several occasions and with Amare being louder, he was always the one shouting down the softer-spoken Johnson. I don't see that working.
Minnesota keeps acting like it has leverage. They don't. Or at least, not much. Garnett has the no-trade clause which he can evoke if he feels the destination is crap, or if the acquiring team is giving up too much to get him. If I'm Garnett and I'm hearing of Phoenix as a possibility, I want to play with Nash and Amare. He can impose his will to make it so. We'll have to see, however.
And by the way, anyone remember the sign-n-trade deals of Penny Hardaway to Phoenix and Grant Hill to Orlando? Each player was at his peak. Neither player was acquired for a star in return. Simple packages based upon picks and young players. Rembmer the trades of Shaquille O'Neal? Yeah, I know he was past his prime, but not even one expiring contract, nor All-Star was included in that deal.
There are plenty of examples where a star is acquired for next to nothing and picks.
Shouldn't PHX have to trade someone else with Amare I don't think he is enough for KG
Sign and trade deals tend not to yield much due to the fact that the player involved is a free agent.
No. Did he guard Wade? Did he guard Baron Davis?Isn't he a large part of the reason they can't get over the hump?
That's why you're posting on Spurstalk and Donnie Nelson is president of basketball operations for the Mavericks. Why does a team with a Finals apperance, an average of 62 wins over the past three seasons and the only team in the League that has demonstrated an ability to take San Antonio out need to "rebuild"?, if I were them I'd be shopping Dirk and JET and rebuilding around Howard.
Well, with Garnett being able to walk at year's end, this is closer to such than it is to a player being held hostage by situation and having zero say in the matter.
If he wants his salary to stay at its grandfathered level he'll cooperate.
Charles Barkley for Tyrone Corbin and Jeff Hornacek, what?
At what point does wanting to win a le matter? At what piont is well over 100 million made in your career worth taking less for a chance at a ring? He may not be at that point yet, but he's always been a fierce compe or, someone who wants to win, and these past three years may have just pounded home how he'll never do it when making that much money. Even Shaq had to take a paycut.
It was actually Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang. Not even a pick was thrown in...
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