Damn Climate Change

[Wild Cobra]

Global Warming, Climate change. I don't care what it's being called, it's just a cycle.

I don't recall the last time we had so much rain in Portland in July. It's probable been 25 years or so. How about those floods in Texas? When's the last time you guys had so much precipitation?

Years ago, we used to have a saying here, "We don't tan in Oregon, we rust." That was completely true when I was a child. Then we transitioned into a long period of hot dry summers that we all love. Looks like we might be going back to those days of rust. On the bright side, maybe Mt. Hood will stay snow capped this next summer like I remember as a child.

I don't see this climate change as an effect from global warming. I see it as natural celestial cycles. Those of you who wish to continue with the panic, the primary sign I think you may want to consider is the atmospheric temperature measurements taken by weather balloons for the last 50 years or more. I wonder why the alarmists of the scientific community never talk about these troposphere temperatures. Surely, if we have global warming over the last 50 years, the troposphere will show the increase, wont it?

[Extra Stout]

This has been the coolest, wettest summer of my life. But it's just one data point.

There is that alternate theory out there which alleges that the gap between variations in solar output and observed climate response on earth is explained by concomitant decrease in cloud cover due to disruption of cloud-promoting cosmic rays by solar wind. So not only is the sun more energetic during its peaks, but more of its energy reaches the surface.

In any event, I figure that energy efficiency initiatives which purportedly would slow down global warming also happen to result in a marginal decrease in the amount of money going to Arabs sympathetic to people trying to kill me, as well as to multinational corporate executives eager to rape every last dime out of me. So energy efficiency is the way to go until we learn more.

I understand that there are some lefty "intellectuals" out there who don't think that is going far enough, but I think they don't care about the science, but rather just want people to submit to coercive central planning, of which they of course will be in charge.

[PixelPusher]

In any event, I figure that energy efficiency initiatives which purportedly would slow down global warming also happen to result in a marginal decrease in the amount of money going to Arabs sympathetic to people trying to kill me, as well as to multinational corporate executives eager to rape every last dime out of me. So energy efficiency is the way to go until we learn more.

I understand that there are some lefty "intellectuals" out there who don't think that is going far enough, but I think they don't care about the science, but rather just want people to submit to coercive central planning, of which they of course will be in charge.

Would you consider the following the result of "coersive central planning"?

[Wild Cobra]

In any event, I figure that energy efficiency initiatives which purportedly would slow down global warming also happen to result in a marginal decrease in the amount of money going to Arabs sympathetic to people trying to kill me, as well as to multinational corporate executives eager to rape every last dime out of me. So energy efficiency is the way to go until we learn more.

I agree we should do what we can to limit our energy usage. I just wish those leftist elitists would take their own medicine.

I understand that there are some lefty "intellectuals" out there who don't think that is going far enough, but I think they don't care about the science, but rather just want people to submit to coercive central planning, of which they of course will be in charge.

I know. Funny how they want the government involved in their agenda's, but no government involvement for other people's agendas...

"Distinctively bitter?" Ready for a 6.8% IPA?

Inversion IPA
Deschutes Brewery website
Wiki on Deschutes Brewery

Just happens to be my favorite beer maker after living in Germany for six years.

[fyatuk]

Hey, I'm just glad the rain isn't coming down all at once like in July 2002 and Oct 1999. Those royally sucked.

Other than that, I want less clouds and temps about 7 degrees warmer.

[Extra Stout]

Would you consider the following the result of "coersive central planning"?

No, I don't believe there was a Marxist economy constructed in the United States during the 1940's.

You win the "Non Sequitur of the Month" for July.

[inconvertible]

In 500 million years the sun will grow, turn red and then swallow the earth.

so we gonna die anyway.

[PixelPusher]

No, I don't believe there was a Marxist economy constructed in the United States during the 1940's.

You win the "Non Sequitur of the Month" for July.

Who said anything about marxism? I'm just trying to find the gap between the Federal government's comprehensive energy and conservation policy back then (based, for the most part, on national security) and the current policy, which is...well...

"Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue, but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy." - Vice President Cheney

[sabar]

In 500 million years the sun will grow, turn red and then swallow the earth.

so we gonna die anyway.

By that logic we should just save ourselves the trouble and commit mass genocide on the human race.

Oh, but the problem (or alleged problem) at hand doesn't affect you in your lifetime, so screw the future!

On topic, there isn't enough data to show anything, everything is an assumption. I'll take the "better safe than sorry" route.

[Extra Stout]

Who said anything about marxism? I'm just trying to find the gap between the Federal government's comprehensive energy and conservation policy back then (based, for the most part, on national security) and the current policy, which is...well...

Well, the Paul Ehrlichs of the world insist that the threats of global warming/overpopulation/food supply/blah blah blah require us to abandon market economies and adopt rigid central planning of the economy. That element is always present on the left, and just has to be ignored.

I really question why in the world you would throw something Cheney said back in my face. Am I Yonivore or something? Should I throw Hugo Chavez quotes in your face?

[Sec24Row7]

In 500 million years the sun will grow, turn red and then swallow the earth.

so we gonna die anyway.

We actually have a lot longer than that... but nice of you to remember something from highschool and pull a big number out of your ass.

[xrayzebra]

And then you have this. You just gotta love it. You gonna die
anyhow, so I think I will enjoy my beef.Where's the beef

[Soul_Patch]

Im pretty sure humans will find a way to eradicate themselves long before the sun does it.

[xrayzebra]

And then you have Father Gore, savior of the world and another
one of his pronouncements.


The sky is falling, the sky is falling

[Yonivore]

By that logic we should just save ourselves the trouble and commit mass genocide on the human race.

Oh, but the problem (or alleged problem) at hand doesn't affect you in your lifetime, so screw the future!

On topic, there isn't enough data to show anything, everything is an assumption. I'll take the "better safe than sorry" route.

As long as you do it out of your pocket and not mine, I'm cool with that.

You see, that's the biggest opposition to all this "global climate change" nonsense; all the money it costs -- and economic growth it re s -- to implement these idiotic measures, i.e. the Kyoto Protocols.

So, sure, be safer rather than sorry...just do it with your own money.

[Yonivore]

Well, the Paul Ehrlichs of the world insist that the threats of global warming/overpopulation/food supply/blah blah blah require us to abandon market economies and adopt rigid central planning of the economy. That element is always present on the left, and just has to be ignored.

I really question why in the world you would throw something Cheney said back in my face. Am I Yonivore or something? Should I throw Hugo Chavez quotes in your face?

Hey, hey, hey! Be nice.

[spurster]

It is good to know that science is a liberal conspiracy.

[Yonivore]

It is good to know that science is a liberal conspiracy.

Not empirical science, it's just the pseudo-science of concensus that is a liberal conspiracy.

[PixelPusher]

Well, the Paul Ehrlichs of the world insist that the threats of global warming/overpopulation/food supply/blah blah blah require us to abandon market economies and adopt rigid central planning of the economy. That element is always present on the left, and just has to be ignored.

I really question why in the world you would throw something Cheney said back in my face. Am I Yonivore or something? Should I throw Hugo Chavez quotes in your face?

No, you certainly aren't Yonivore, and apologize my last 2 posts seemed like I was attacking you personally. I didn't quote Cheney because he's the ultimate uber-villain of the right, I quoted him because he's the guy in charge of our national energy policy.

Frankly, I'm tired of the kneejerk barring of teeth and growling like a junk yard dog from so many people everytime anyone suggest anything that even remotely resembles a collective response to energy conservation/production/whatever - as if any deviation from a purely laizze-fare government will plunge us into the dark abyss of a communist dystopia. As you said yourself - the conservation policies and programs during WWII didn't transform us into another USSR.

If dependence on foreign oil is a national security issue, why shouldn't the government have a role? The "free market" says we import foreign oil because it's currently the cheapest option. Do we intervene to secure ourselves, or do we just wait around for another 4 or 5 decades hoping things don't get worse while we wait for foreign oil to grow scarce enough to make other energy options more compe ive?

[Extra Stout]

No, you certainly aren't Yonivore, and apologize my last 2 posts seemed like I was attacking you personally. I didn't quote Cheney because he's the ultimate uber-villain of the right, I quoted him because he's the guy in charge of our national energy policy.

Frankly, I'm tired of the kneejerk barring of teeth and growling like a junk yard dog from so many people everytime anyone suggest anything that even remotely resembles a collective response to energy conservation/production/whatever - as if any deviation from a purely laizze-fare government will plunge us into the dark abyss of a communist dystopia. As you said yourself - the conservation policies and programs during WWII didn't transform us into another USSR.

If dependence on foreign oil is a national security issue, why shouldn't the government have a role? The "free market" says we import foreign oil because it's currently the cheapest option. Do we intervene to secure ourselves, or do we just wait around for another 4 or 5 decades hoping things don't get worse while we wait for foreign oil to grow scarce enough to make other energy options more compe ive?

I'm not sure why you think I disagree with you on any of that.

Somebody to my right might point out that FDR was a wacko liberal with godless communists in his Cabinet, however.

[Yonivore]

I'm not sure why you think I disagree with you on any of that.

Somebody to my right might point out that FDR was a wacko liberal with godless communists in his Cabinet, however.

FDR was a wacko liberal with godless communists in his Cabinet.

He also extended the depression with his New Deal socialism.

[Wild Cobra]

And then you have Father Gore, savior of the world and another
one of his pronouncements.


The sky is falling, the sky is falling

Yep, Chicken Little Gore.

I'm not worried about CO2 levels raising the temperature any more. I'm worried about it becoming toxic to some life form. Increase what we have by tenfold, and it will cause havoc on us. How much can more vulnerable life like birds take?

When they start being honest with us, I can support their ideas and plans. Until they are honest, I think they are just starting a giant money grab. Also, until they are honest with us, people wont understand the real threats.

How much stock does Gore have in companies that sell carbon credits?

[Wild Cobra]

FDR was a wacko liberal with godless communists in his Cabinet.

He also extended the depression with his New Deal socialism.

Careful, we might need a "Project Venona" thread.

[DarkReign]

FDR was a wacko liberal with godless communists in his Cabinet.

He also extended the depression with his New Deal socialism.

Right on queue, too. That was awesome.

[spurster]

Not empirical science, it's just the pseudo-science of concensus that is a liberal conspiracy.

Of course, there is no pseudo-science from conservatives on global warming or other science they don't like (e.g., evolution).

If you want hard data of a large change, maybe the shrinking Arctic ice might be convincing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/st...035521,00.html