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    Do ents Contradict Gonzales's Testimony

    By Lara Jakes Jordan
    The Associated Press

    Thursday 26 July 2007

    Washington - Do ents indicate eight congressional leaders were briefed about the Bush administration's terrorist surveillance program on the eve of its expiration in 2004, contradicting sworn Senate testimony this week by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

    The do ents underscore questions about Gonzales' credibility as senators consider whether a perjury investigation should be opened into conflicting accounts about the program and a dramatic March 2004 confrontation leading up to its potentially illegal reauthorization.

    A Gonzales spokesman maintained Wednesday that the attorney general stands by his testimony.

    At a heated Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Tuesday, Gonzales repeatedly testified that the issue at hand was not about the terrorist surveillance program, which allowed the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on suspects in the United States without receiving court approval.


    Instead, Gonzales said, the emergency meetings on March 10, 2004, focused on an intelligence program that he would not describe.

    Gonzales, who was then serving as counsel to Bush, testified that the White House Situation Room briefing sought to inform congressional leaders about the pending expiration of the unidentified program and Justice Department objections to renew it. Those objections were led by then-Deputy Attorney General Jim Comey, who questioned the program's legality.

    "The dissent related to other intelligence activities," Gonzales testified at Tuesday's hearing. "The dissent was not about the terrorist surveillance program."

    "Not the TSP?" responded Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y. "Come on. If you say it's about other, that implies not. Now say it or not."

    "It was not," Gonzales answered. "It was about other intelligence activities."

    A four-page memo from the national intelligence director's office says the White House briefing with the eight lawmakers on March 10, 2004, was about the terror surveillance program, or TSP.

    The memo, dated May 17, 2006, and addressed to then-House Speaker Dennis Hastert, details "the classification of the dates, locations, and names of members of Congress who attended briefings on the Terrorist Surveillance Program," wrote then-Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte.

    It shows that the briefing in March 2004 was attended by the Republican and Democratic House and Senate leaders and leading members of both chambers' intelligence committees, as Gonzales testified.

    Schumer called the memo evidence that Gonzales was not truthful in his testimony.

    "It seemed clear to just about everyone on the committee that the attorney general was deceiving us when he said the dissent was about other intelligence activities and this memo is even more evidence that helps confirm our su ions," Schumer said.

    Bush acknowledged the existence of the classified surveillance program in December 2005 after it was revealed by The New York Times. In January, it was put under the authority of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for judicial review before any wiretaps were to be approved.

    Asked for comment on the do ents Wednesday evening, Justice spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said Gonzales "stands by his testimony."

    "The disagreement referenced by Jim Comey in March 2004 was not about the particular intelligence activity that has been publicly described by the president," Roehrkasse said. "It was about other highly classified intelligence activities that have been briefed to the intelligence committees."

    The disagreement over whether to renew the program led to a dramatic, and highly controversial, confrontation between Gonzales and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft on the night of March 10, 2004.

    After briefing the congressional leaders, Gonzales testified that he and then-White House chief of staff Andy Card headed to a Washington hospital room, where a sedated Ashcroft was recovering from surgery. Ashcroft had already turned over his powers as attorney general to Comey.

    Comey was in the hospital room as well, and recounted to senators in his own sworn testimony in May that he "thought I just witnessed an effort to take advantage of a very sick man, who did not have the powers of the attorney general because they had been transferred to me."

    Ultimately, Ashcroft sided with Comey, and Gonzales and Card left the hospital after a five- to six-minute conversation.

    Gonzales denied that he and Card tried to pressure Ashcroft into approving the program over Comey's objections.

    "We never had any intent to ask anything of him if we did not feel that he was competent," Gonzales told the Senate panel Tuesday. "At the end of his description of the legal issues, he said, 'I'm not making this decision. The deputy attorney general is.' And so Andy Card and I thanked him. We told him that we would continue working with the deputy attorney general and we left."

    Democrats and Republicans alike expressed disbelief at Gonzales' version of events.

    "There's a discrepancy here in sworn testimony," Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said after listening to Gonzales, raising the possibility of a perjury inquiry. "We're going to have to ask who's telling the truth, who's not."

    Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, top Republican on the panel, also disregarded Gonzales' description. "I do not find your testimony credible, candidly," he told the attorney general.

    House and Senate lawmakers who attended the Situation Room briefing are divided on the accuracy of Gonzales' account of that meeting, which he said concluded by a "consensus in the room from the congressional leadership is that we should continue the activities, at least for now, despite the objections of Mr. Comey."

    Three Democrats - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller and former Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle - dispute Gonzales' testimony. Rockefeller called it "untruthful," and Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said the speaker disagreed that it should be continued without Justice Department or FISA court oversight.

    On the other hand, former GOP House Intelligence Chairman Porter Goss, "does not recall anyone saying the project must be ended,' spokeswoman Jennifer Millerwise Dyck said. And former Senate Republican leader Bill Frist stopped short of confirming or denying the meeting's outcome.

    "I recall being briefed with the others about the program and it was stated that Gonzales would visit with Ashcroft in the hospital and that our meeting was part of the administration's responsibility to discuss with the leadership of Congress,' Frist said in a statement.

    ---

    Associated Press writer Katherine Shrader contributed to this report.

    ----------

    The Judiciary Committee prepared an extensive do ent for Committee Members summarizing the basis for today's vote to recommend contempt proceedings against Harriet Miers and Joshua Bolten. This memorandum is linked below.

    http://judiciary.house.gov/Media/PDF...Memo070725.pdf.




    =============================




    Gonzo on the Hill: a Comedic Tragedy

    By Andrew Cohen
    The Washington Post

    Tuesday 24 July 2007

    Forget about the politicization of the Justice Department. Forget about the falling morale there. Forget about the rise in violent crime in some of our biggest cities. Forget about the events leading up to the U.S. Attorney scandal and the way he has handled the prosecutor purge since. Forget about the Department's role in allowing warrantless domestic surveillance. Forget about the contorted and contradictory accounts he's offered before in his own defense.

    Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales deserves to be fired for his testimony Tuesday alone; for morphing into Jon Lovitz's famous "pathological liar" character (or maybe just one of the Marx Brothers) as he tried to dodge and duck responsibility before the Senate Judiciary Committee not just for his shameful leadership at Justice but also his shameless role in visiting an ailing John Ashcroft in the hospital to try to strong-arm him into renewing the warrantless surviellance program. Can anyone out there remember a worse, less-inspiring, less confidence-inducing performance on Capitol Hill? I cannot.

    No reasonable person watching Gonzales' tragically comedic performance Tuesday's on Capitol Hill- especially his miserable exchange with Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) in late morning- can any longer defend his appalling lack of competence, courage and credibility. And no one who hears him say that he is what's best for the Department right now should forget that on the eve of his testimony (and a few days after he urged his subordinates to work diligently to regain their morale) the nation's top law enforcement official reportedly left work early to go for a bike ride Monday afternoon- at about 3:50 p.m.

    I am running out of words to describe how inept this public servant is and how awful is the message our government sends to the nation and to the world by allowing him to continue to represent us. So I'll just turn it over to Sen. Schumer. Here is part of the exchange between the two (they are discussing the contradictions between what Gonzales had previously said about L'Affair Aschroft and also about under-oath discrepancies between Gonzales' version of events and the version offered by former Deputy Attorney General James B. Comey, We pick up where Gonzales is trying to yet again weasel out of his prior statements on the topic):

    Schumer: I'd like to just pick up where Senator Specter left off, about the TSP program. Just a few preliminaries.
    First, I take it that there was just one program that the president confirmed in 2005. There was not more than one.

    Gonzales: He confirmed one, yes, intelligence activity. Yes, one program.

    Schumer: Thank you. OK. Now, you - and you've repeatedly referred to the, quote "program," that the president confirmed in December 2005. Let me just - I'm going to put up a chart here. Here's what you said before this committee on February 6th of 2006. You said, quote, "There has not been any serious disagreement about the program the president has confirmed. With respect to what the president has confirmed, I do not believe that these DOJ officials that you were identifying had concerns about this program." This was in reference to a question I asked you, "Was there any dissent here?"

    This was before Comey came to testify. It was in February. But we had some thoughts that maybe that happened. And now, of course, we know from Jim Comey that virtually the entire leadership of the Justice Department was prepared to resign over concerns about a classified program. Disagreement doesn't get more serious than that. And what program was the ruckus all about? And this is the important point here. At your press conference on June the 5th, it was precisely the program that you testified had caused no serious dissent. You said, "Mr. Comey's testimony" - and he only testified once - "related to a highly classified program which the president confirmed to the American people some time ago."

    Schumer: These are your words, right? You don't deny that these are your words. This was a public press conference.

    Gonzales: I'm told that in fact here in the press conference I did misspeak, but I also went back and clarified it with the reporter.

    Schumer: You did misspeak?

    Gonzales: Yes. But I went back and clarified it with the reporter...

    Schumer: When was that? And which - what was the reporter's name?

    Gonzales: At The Washington Post two days later.

    (CROSSTALK)

    Gonzales: Dan Eggen was the reporter.

    Schumer: OK. Well, we'll want to go follow up with him. But the bottom line is this: You just admitted there was just
    one program that the president confirmed in December...

    Gonzales: The president...

    Schumer: ... just one. Is that correct, sir?

    Gonzales: The president talked about a set of activities...

    Schumer: No, I am just asking you a yes-or-no simple question, just as Senator Specter has. And just like Senator Specter and others here, I'd like to get an answer to that question. You just said there was one program. Are you backing off that now?

    Gonzales: The president...

    Schumer: Was there one program or was there not that the president confirmed?

    Gonzales: The president confirmed the existence of one set of intelligence activities.

    Schumer: Fine. Now let's go over it again, sir, because I think this shows clear as could be that you're not being straightforward with this committee; that you're deceiving us. You then - then you said in testimony to this committee in response to a question that I asked, "There has not been any disagreement about the program the president confirmed." Then Jim Comey comes and talks about not just mild dissent, but dissent that shook the Justice Department to the rafters. And here, on June 5th, you say that Comey was testifying about the program the president confirmed. You, sir...

    Gonzales: And I've already said...

    Schumer: Sir.

    Gonzales: ... I have clarified my statement on June 5th. Mr. Comey was talking about a disagreement that existed with respect to other intelligence activities.

    Schumer: How can we - this is constant, sir, in all due respect with you. You constantly make statements that are clear on their face that you're deceiving the committee. And then you go back and say, "Well, I corrected the record two days later." How can we trust your leadership when the basic facts about serious questions that have been in the spotlight, you just constantly change the story, seemingly to fit your needs to wiggle out of being caught, frankly, telling mistruths? It's clear here. It's clear. One program. That's what you just said to me. That's what locks this in. Because before that, you were, sort of, alluding - in your letter to me on May 17th, you said, "Well, there was one program," - you said there was the program, TSP, and then there were other intelligence activities.

    Gonzales: That's correct.

    Schumer: You wanted us to go away and say, "Well, maybe it was other" - wait a second, sir. Wait a second.

    Gonzales: And the disagreements related to other intelligence activities.

    Schumer: I'll let you speak in a minute, but this is serious, because you're getting right close to the edge right here.
    You just said there was just one program - just one. So the letter, which was, sort of, intended to deceive, but doesn't directly do so, because there are other intelligence activities, gets you off the hook, but you just put yourself right back on here.

    Gonzales: I clarified my statement two days later with the reporter.

    Schumer: What did you say to the reporter?

    Gonzales: I did not speak directly to the reporter.

    Schumer: Oh, wait a second - you did not.

    (LAUGHTER)

    OK. What did your spokesperson say to the reporter?

    Gonzales: I don't know. But I told the spokesperson to go back and clarify my statement...

    Schumer: Well, wait a minute, sir. Sir, with all due respect - and if I could have some order here, Mr. Chairman - in all due respect, you're just saying, "Well, it was clarified with the reporter," and you don't even know what he said. You don't even know what the clarification is. Sir, how can you say that you should stay on as attorney general when we go through exercise like this, where you're bobbing and weaving and ducking to avoid admitting that you deceived the committee? And now you don't even know. I'll give you another chance: You're hanging your hat on the fact that you clarified the statement two days later. You're now telling us that is was a spokesperson who did it. What did that spokesperson say? Tell me now, how do you clarify this?

    Gonzales: I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.

    =========================

    Democrats Urge Perjury Probe of Gonzales
    By LAURIE KELLMAN
    The Associated Press
    Thursday, July 26, 2007; 12:01 PM


    WASHINGTON -- Senate Democrats called Thursday for a special counsel to investigate whether Attorney General Alberto Gonzales perjured himself regarding the firings of U.S. attorneys and administration dissent over President Bush's domestic surveillance program.

    "It has become apparent that the attorney general has provided at a minimum half-truths and misleading statements,"
    four members of the Senate Judiciary Committee wrote in a letter to Solictor General Paul Clement.

    They asked Clement to immediately appoint an indepedent counsel from outside the Justice Department to determine whether Gonzales "may have misled Congress or perjured himself in testimony before Congress."

    "We do not make this request lightly," wrote Sens. Charles E. Schumer of New York, Dianne Feinstein of California, Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

    A draft copy of the letter was obtained by The Associated Press shortly before a news conference planned by the senators.

    Neither Gonzales nor the Justice Department had immediate comment about the letter. A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he supports the request.

    Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy of Vermont, in a separate letter Thursday to Gonzales, said he would give the attorney general eight days to correct, clarify or otherwise change his testimony "so that, consistent with your oath, they are the whole truth."

    The four senators said that Gonzales' testimony last year that there had been no internal dissent over the president's warrantless wiretapping program conflicted with testimony by former Deputy Attorney General James Comey and with Gonzales' own statements this week before the Judiciary Committee.

    They also said Gonzales falsely told the panel that he had not talked about the firings with other Justice Department officials. His former White House liaison, Monica Goodling, told the House Judiciary Committee under a grant of immunity that she had an "uncomfortable" conversation with Gonzales in which he outlined his recollection of what happened and asked her for her reaction.

    "The attorney general should be held to the highest ethical standards," the senators wrote.

    Clement would decide whether to appoint a special prosecutor because Gonzales and outgoing Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty have recused themselves from the investigation that involves them. The Justice Department's No. 3, Associate Attorney General William Mercer, is serving only in an acting capacity and therefore does not have the authority to do so.

    At issue is what was discussed at a March 10, 2004, congressional briefing. A letter from then-Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte said the briefing concerned the administration's terrorist surveillance program on the eve of its expiration.

    But Gonzales, at Tuesday's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, repeatedly testified that the issue at hand was not about the terrorist surveillance program, which allowed the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on suspects in the United States without receiving prior court approval.

    Instead, Gonzales said, the emergency meetings on March 10, 2004, focused on an intelligence program that he would not describe. He said the meeting prompted him to go to the bedside of ailing Attorney General John Ashcroft to recertify the surveillance program, but he denied pressuring Ashcroft to do so. Ashcroft, recovering from gall bladder surgery, refused.

    White House press secretary Tony Snow defended Gonzales on Thursday but would not talk about the subject of the 2004 briefing.

    "Unfortunately we get into areas that you cannot discuss openly," Snow said. "It's a very complex issue. But the attorney general was speaking consistently. The president supports him. I think at some point this is going to be something where members are going to have to go behind closed doors and have a fuller discussion of the issues. But I can't go any further than that."

    Two former Republican chairmen joined Democrats in recent days in suggesting that the questions surrounding Gonzales be resolved by those outside the process.

    Sen. Arlen Specter, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee and former chairman, on Tuesday told Gonzales during his appearance before the panel that a special prosecutor might be needed.

    "I do not find your testimony credible, candidly," Specter told Gonzales.

    Specter's counterpart on the House side, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., suggested that the House file a civil suit against the administration's executive privilege claim.

    And Specter brought his concerns directly to Bush aboard Air Force One Thursday morning.

    The senator, accompanying Bush on a trip to Philadelphia, said the president was sticking by Gonzales out of personal loyalty despite the attorney general's deteriorating support on Capitol Hill.

    "The hearing two days ago was devastating (for Gonzales). But so was the hearing before that and so was the hearing before that," Specter said.

    ===================

    You really are forced to admire the quality of the people dubya and head have brought into the Exec. The entire Exec since Jan 2001 has been, and is, a stinking pile of , of liars, of incompetence.

  2. #2
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Gonzales testified that he went to the hospital to see John Ashcroft, then the Attorney General, in part to communicate to him the consensus of Congressional leaders that a particular anti-terrorist program, whose legality was being questioned after two years of re-authorizations, should be continued. In the Washington Post story you link, they try to cast doubt on this testimony, but in fact the sources they cite make it pretty clear that Gonzales's testimony was accurate.

    Then, the Associated Press tries another tack, in a story based on a leak from either Congress or the intelligence community. The AP's story is headlined "Do ents Contradict Gonzales' Testimony":

    At a heated Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Tuesday, Gonzales repeatedly testified that the issue at hand was not about the terrorist surveillance program, which allowed the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on suspects in the United States without receiving court approval.
    This is incorrect. The terrorist surveillance program allowed interception of international communications involving a suspected terrorist, where time constraints did not permit obtaining an order.

    Instead, Gonzales said, the emergency meetings on March 10, 2004, focused on an intelligence program that he would not describe.
    This is wrong too. Gonzales offered to explain to the Senators in private, away from the television cameras, but they declined his invitation. I wonder why that is?

    The AP reports that the leaked do ent, which comes from the national intelligence director's office, says that on March 10, 2004, the White House held a briefing with the Gang of Eight Congressional leaders on the terrorist surveillance program:

    A four-page memo from the national intelligence director's office says the White House briefing with the eight lawmakers on March 10, 2004, was about the terror surveillance program, or TSP.

    The memo, dated May 17, 2006, and addressed to then-House Speaker Dennis Hastert, details "the classification of the dates, locations, and names of members of Congress who attended briefings on the Terrorist Surveillance Program," wrote then-Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte.

    It shows that the briefing in March 2004 was attended by the Republican and Democratic House and Senate leaders and leading members of both chambers' intelligence committees, as Gonzales testified.
    This do ent was created after controversy developed over the international terrorist surveillance program. In response, I assume, to a request from Congress, the memo lists all dates on which Congressional leaders were briefed on the TSP. This, the AP says, "contradicts Gonzales's testimony," but of course it doesn't. The memo doesn't say that the only program discussed at the meeting was the TSP, nor does it say that the TSP was the one on which the Justice Department (Ashcroft and Comey) had suddenly changed its mind, leading to the famous hospital visit. The do ent, as described by the AP, confirms Gonzales's testimony that he met with Congressional leaders shortly before visiting the hospital; to the extent that the AP describes it, it does not contradict the Attorney General's testimony.

    This is really something of a mystery. When Comey testified before the Judiciary Committee, he refused to name the surveillance program at issue. In a previous post, I assumed it was obviously the terrorist surveillance program. But that assumption may have been wrong.

    It wouldn't be hard to figure out whether the program about which DOJ changed its mind was the international terrorist surveillance program, or something else. There is a paper trail of legal memos, etc., on the subject, and a considerable number of people know the answer to the question, including at least one unimpeachable source, John Ashcroft.

    Given those facts, it is hard to see why Gonzales, or anyone else, would lie about the iden y of the program, as the AP accuses Gonzales of doing. It's also inexplicable why the Senate Committee wouldn't allow Gonzales to explain the discrepancy off camera and in a secure setting -- unless, of course, the committee is more interested in painting him as a liar than getting the facts.

    Given Comey's refusal to name the program and Ashcroft's public reticence on the subject, the only information we have is Gonzales's testimony that it was something else. But, as I say, this is a mystery that wouldn't be hard to solve.

    Now, while we're on the subject of Attorney General Gonzales, let's talk about the Congress' penchant for oversight hearings ad naseum and their unprecedented attempt to pry apart executive privilege.

    As Tony Snow pointed out yesterday; during this Congress there have been more than 300 executive branch investigations or inquiries; 400 requests for do ents, interviews, or testimony; we've had more than 550 officials testify; we've had more than 600 oversight hearings; 87,000-plus hours spent responding to oversight requests; and 430,000 pages made available to Congress for oversight. None of which as resulted in a single piece of legislation or criminal detection. That's pretty significant.

    And, now, it appears that Congress and the White House will come to a resonating conclusion to the lifelong tension over the use of executive privilege, and it will be fought on the White House's turf. Not a very smart move by the Congress. That's right, Worst. Congress. Ever!

    The House Judiciary Committee took the extreme step of recommending contempt citations for two senior administration officials after they refused to testify under subpoena regarding political advice at the White House. In a Washington Post article yesterday:

    The House Judiciary Committee voted today to issue contempt citations for two of President Bush's most trusted aides, taking its most dramatic step yet towards a cons utional showdown with the White House over the Justice Department's dismissal of nine U.S. attorneys.

    The panel voted 22-17, along party lines, to issue citations to Joshua B. Bolten, White House chief of staff, and Harriet E. Miers, former White House counsel. Both refused to comply with committee subpoenas after Bush declared that do ents and testimony related to the prosecutor firings were protected by executive privilege. ...

    Republicans on the panel argued strongly today against issuing contempt citations, and Democrats shot down two proposed GOP amendments before voting for the contempt findings.

    "I believe this is an unnecessary provocation of a cons utional crisis," said Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.). "Absent showing that a crime was committed in this process, I think the White House is going to win an argument in court."
    Tony Snow rather forcefully responded to this development, calling it a singular event in American history, where the legislative branch will direct the executive branch -- in the form of the federal prosecutor -- to file contempt charges against itself. The Department of Justice reminded Congress that administrations of both parties have long held that Congress has no power to issue contempt citations for claims of executive privilege. Obviously, the current leadership in Congress doesn't care.

    It portends a showdown in the Supreme Court over the nature of executive privilege, and Sensenbrenner is correct. Absent any evidence of criminal conduct, the Supreme Court is highly unlikely to grant the legislative branch free rein to pursue contempt charges or to undo executive privilege. Nancy Pelosi will in all likelihood force a ruling that will firmly establish executive privilege and leave Congress with less power than it has had, after having finally called its own bluff. Way to go!

    It's unfortunate that the Democrats chose to pursue this course. No one has established any criminal conduct at the Department of Justice, nor are they likely to do so by calling Harriet Miers and Josh Bolten for testimony. It's a fishing expedition in both chambers of Congress. They can conduct all of the fishing expeditions they want, but they have no right to abrogate executive privilege to do so. Absent clear evidence of criminality, the President has the right to confer with his aides without Congress demanding to know what was said -- which is the heart of executive privilege.

    If the main body of Congress is foolish enough to endorse this course of action, then it will set the stage for its diminishment. Up to now, smarter leadership in the Legislature has carefully wielded the threat of contempt to compel greater cooperation on matters of national interest. In one action in a situation that amounts to little more than a sideshow for a nation at war, the Democrats will throw that leverage away on the inhospitable shores of the Supreme Court in a case where they cannot even demonstrate any criminality.

    Idiots. No wonder their approval ratings are the lowest in History.

  3. #3
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Gonzales testified that he went to the hospital to see John Ashcroft, then the Attorney General, in part to communicate to him the consensus of Congressional leaders that a particular anti-terrorist program, whose legality was being questioned after two years of re-authorizations, should be continued. In the Washington Post story you link, they try to cast doubt on this testimony, but in fact the sources they cite make it pretty clear that Gonzales's testimony was accurate.

    Then, the Associated Press tries another tack, in a story based on a leak from either Congress or the intelligence community. The AP's story is headlined "Do ents Contradict Gonzales' Testimony":


    This is incorrect. The terrorist surveillance program allowed interception of international communications involving a suspected terrorist, where time constraints did not permit obtaining an order.


    This is wrong too. Gonzales offered to explain to the Senators in private, away from the television cameras, but they declined his invitation. I wonder why that is?

    The AP reports that the leaked do ent, which comes from the national intelligence director's office, says that on March 10, 2004, the White House held a briefing with the Gang of Eight Congressional leaders on the terrorist surveillance program:


    This do ent was created after controversy developed over the international terrorist surveillance program. In response, I assume, to a request from Congress, the memo lists all dates on which Congressional leaders were briefed on the TSP. This, the AP says, "contradicts Gonzales's testimony," but of course it doesn't. The memo doesn't say that the only program discussed at the meeting was the TSP, nor does it say that the TSP was the one on which the Justice Department (Ashcroft and Comey) had suddenly changed its mind, leading to the famous hospital visit. The do ent, as described by the AP, confirms Gonzales's testimony that he met with Congressional leaders shortly before visiting the hospital; to the extent that the AP describes it, it does not contradict the Attorney General's testimony.

    This is really something of a mystery. When Comey testified before the Judiciary Committee, he refused to name the surveillance program at issue. In a previous post, I assumed it was obviously the terrorist surveillance program. But that assumption may have been wrong.

    It wouldn't be hard to figure out whether the program about which DOJ changed its mind was the international terrorist surveillance program, or something else. There is a paper trail of legal memos, etc., on the subject, and a considerable number of people know the answer to the question, including at least one unimpeachable source, John Ashcroft.

    Given those facts, it is hard to see why Gonzales, or anyone else, would lie about the iden y of the program, as the AP accuses Gonzales of doing. It's also inexplicable why the Senate Committee wouldn't allow Gonzales to explain the discrepancy off camera and in a secure setting -- unless, of course, the committee is more interested in painting him as a liar than getting the facts.

    Given Comey's refusal to name the program and Ashcroft's public reticence on the subject, the only information we have is Gonzales's testimony that it was something else. But, as I say, this is a mystery that wouldn't be hard to solve.

    Now, while we're on the subject of Attorney General Gonzales, let's talk about the Congress' penchant for oversight hearings ad naseum and their unprecedented attempt to pry apart executive privilege.

    As Tony Snow pointed out yesterday; during this Congress there have been more than 300 executive branch investigations or inquiries; 400 requests for do ents, interviews, or testimony; we've had more than 550 officials testify; we've had more than 600 oversight hearings; 87,000-plus hours spent responding to oversight requests; and 430,000 pages made available to Congress for oversight. None of which as resulted in a single piece of legislation or criminal detection. That's pretty significant.

    And, now, it appears that Congress and the White House will come to a resonating conclusion to the lifelong tension over the use of executive privilege, and it will be fought on the White House's turf. Not a very smart move by the Congress. That's right, Worst. Congress. Ever!

    The House Judiciary Committee took the extreme step of recommending contempt citations for two senior administration officials after they refused to testify under subpoena regarding political advice at the White House. In a Washington Post article yesterday:


    Tony Snow rather forcefully responded to this development, calling it a singular event in American history, where the legislative branch will direct the executive branch -- in the form of the federal prosecutor -- to file contempt charges against itself. The Department of Justice reminded Congress that administrations of both parties have long held that Congress has no power to issue contempt citations for claims of executive privilege. Obviously, the current leadership in Congress doesn't care.

    It portends a showdown in the Supreme Court over the nature of executive privilege, and Sensenbrenner is correct. Absent any evidence of criminal conduct, the Supreme Court is highly unlikely to grant the legislative branch free rein to pursue contempt charges or to undo executive privilege. Nancy Pelosi will in all likelihood force a ruling that will firmly establish executive privilege and leave Congress with less power than it has had, after having finally called its own bluff. Way to go!

    It's unfortunate that the Democrats chose to pursue this course. No one has established any criminal conduct at the Department of Justice, nor are they likely to do so by calling Harriet Miers and Josh Bolten for testimony. It's a fishing expedition in both chambers of Congress. They can conduct all of the fishing expeditions they want, but they have no right to abrogate executive privilege to do so. Absent clear evidence of criminality, the President has the right to confer with his aides without Congress demanding to know what was said -- which is the heart of executive privilege.

    If the main body of Congress is foolish enough to endorse this course of action, then it will set the stage for its diminishment. Up to now, smarter leadership in the Legislature has carefully wielded the threat of contempt to compel greater cooperation on matters of national interest. In one action in a situation that amounts to little more than a sideshow for a nation at war, the Democrats will throw that leverage away on the inhospitable shores of the Supreme Court in a case where they cannot even demonstrate any criminality.

    Idiots. No wonder their approval ratings are the lowest in History.

    And yet all polls show Americans prefer to see dems in control... not to a good sign for the repubs...

  4. #4
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    And yet all polls show Americans prefer to see dems in control... not to a good sign for the repubs...
    What's that got to do with the thread?

  5. #5
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    What's that got to do with the thread?

    your taking shots at the dem congress being the lowest in history.. And America STILL wants them in control.. pretty patetic for your party don't you think?

  6. #6
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    your taking shots at the dem congress being the lowest in history.. And America STILL wants them in control.. pretty patetic for your party don't you think?
    Okay, resisting the GGA-like impulse to tell you to provide do entation that proves all polls show Americans prefer Dems in control, I'll wait until next November to see who America prefers.

    But, thanks for picking on an insignificant point in the post and ignoring the more substantial content.

  7. #7
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Okay, resisting the GGA-like impulse to tell you to provide do entation that proves all polls show Americans prefer Dems in control, I'll wait until next November to see who America prefers.

    But, thanks for picking on an insignificant point in the post and ignoring the more substantial content.

    No problem. I'll remind you everytime you mention the Congresses low approval rating..

  8. #8
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    No problem. I'll remind you everytime you mention the Congresses low approval rating..
    D'okie dokie; whatever blows your skirt.

  9. #9
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    I would like to see anyone on this forum sit before any group of
    folks for days on end and attempt to answer all their questions
    without contradicting themselves somewhere along the line.

    Of course he could have done as many dimm-o-craps and just
    say: I cant recall or I have no recollection of that conversation.
    He has tried to be honest in his answers.

    Or maybe he should have just went to the National Archives
    and stolen all the paperwork, changed it like he wanted or
    destroyed it and lost his law license for a couple of years.

  10. #10
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    I would like to see anyone on this forum sit before any group of
    folks for days on end and attempt to answer all their questions
    without contradicting themselves somewhere along the line.

    Of course he could have done as many dimm-o-craps and just
    say: I cant recall or I have no recollection of that conversation.
    He has tried to be honest in his answers.

    Or maybe he should have just went to the National Archives
    and stolen all the paperwork, changed it like he wanted or
    destroyed it and lost his law license for a couple of years.

    wow ray defending the administration with more excuses....like clockwork..

  11. #11
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    And what are you doing, dummy?

  12. #12
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    And what are you doing, dummy?

    ray go back to sleep with your president bush pillow resting nicely under your head..

  13. #13
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    And you keep your little dream that Bush is the cause of all
    evils. And the dimm-0-craps are the saviors of all mankind.

    One thing I can always depend on. If you had a brain you
    would take it out and play with it like you do with your other
    play things. That would be the only use you get from it.

  14. #14
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    And you keep your little dream that Bush is the cause of all
    evils. And the dimm-0-craps are the saviors of all mankind.

    One thing I can always depend on. If you had a brain you
    would take it out and play with it like you do with your other
    play things. That would be the only use you get from it.

    Bush hasn't caused all evils but that idiot sure made things worse..

  15. #15
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Bush hasn't caused all evils but that idiot sure made things worse..
    I got to file this statement where I can get to it later. You
    really mean it? He isn't the cause of all evils?

    See, even you make mis-statements. And you pick on
    Gonzo..........

  16. #16
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    And yet all polls show Americans prefer to see dems in control... not to a good sign for the repubs...
    I didn't know that's what the polls say. How do you interpret that from approve/dissaprove? Maybe the republican voters dissaprove of how nice the republican congress is being to their opposition?

    In the habbit of jumping to comclusions?

    Take those colored glasses off please and keep an open ming.

  17. #17
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    Polls show that the polled trust the Congressional Dems on Iraq more than dubya.

    The Exec or Congressional Repugs have lost all credibility on Iraq and on the direction of the country.

  18. #18
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Polls show that the polled trust the Congressional Dems on Iraq more than dubya.

    The Exec or Congressional Repugs have lost all credibility on Iraq and on the direction of the country.
    Where is the link......where is the link.......where is the
    link.........

    Polls are taken and used as news. I really don't need a
    link, don't want one.

    I know who I trust and it damn well isn't a bunch of
    's in Congress who want us to lose a war, our
    freedom and and bunch of dumbass whimps like you
    boutons who have already given up on us winning
    anything. And never even consider what the alternatives
    to us not winning. What a dumb, short memory you
    have. Not even considering 9/11 two, just consider
    the other attacks on us. BEFORE BUSH! You stupid,
    stupid, silly people.

  19. #19
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    FBI Director Contradicts Gonzales

    By LAURIE KELLMAN and LARA JAKES JORDAN
    The Associated Press
    Thursday, July 26, 2007; 5:18 PM

    WASHINGTON -- The head of the FBI contradicted Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' sworn testimony and Senate Democrats requested a perjury investigation Thursday in a fresh barrage against President Bush's embattled longtime friend and aide.

    In a third blow to the Bush administration, the Senate Judiciary Committee issued subpoenas to compel the testimony of Karl Rove, Bush's chief political adviser, in connection with its investigation.

    "It has become apparent that the attorney general has provided at a minimum half-truths and misleading statements," four Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee wrote in a letter to Solicitor General Paul Clement calling for a special counsel to investigate.

    "I'm convinced that he's not telling the truth,"
    added Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

    The developments marked a troubling turn for Gonzales as well as the administration, which has been on the political defensive since congressional Democrats launched an investigation seven months ago into the firings of U.S. attorneys.

    That probe revealed information that Democrats have sought to weave into a pattern of improper political influence over prosecutions, of stonewalling and of deceit in sworn testimony before Congress.

    The White House defiantly stuck by Gonzales and denied that FBI Director Robert S. Mueller had contradicted him.

    Democrats insisted that Gonzales had been untruthful and that the White House had encouraged top aides to flout congressional subpoenas in the U.S. attorney probe.

    But Gonzales took the toughest hits Thursday, when four Senate Democrats issued a list of examples of what they said was the attorney general lying to Congress under oath _ the basis for their request to Clement to appoint a special counsel to investigate.

    Among the Democrats' examples of Gonzales' untruthfulness was his emphatic and repeated statement to the Judiciary Committee Tuesday that his dramatic nighttime visit to the bedside of Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004 was not related to an internal administration dispute about the president's secret warrantless eavesdropping program.

    In his own sworn testimony Thursday, Mueller contradicted his boss, saying under questioning that the terrorist surveillance program (TSP) was the topic of the hospital room dispute between top Bush administration officials.

    Mueller was not in the hospital room at the time of the dramatic March 10, 2004, confrontation between Ashcroft and presidential advisers Andy Card and Gonzales, who was then serving as White House counsel. Mueller told the House Judiciary Committee he arrived shortly after they left, and then spoke with the ailing Ashcroft.

    "Did you have an understanding that the conversation was on TSP?" asked Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas in a round of questioning that may have sounded to listeners like bureaucratic alphabet soup.

    "I had an understanding the discussion was on a NSA program, yes," Mueller answered.

    Jackson sought to clarify: "We use 'TSP,' we use 'warrantless wiretapping,' so would I be comfortable in saying that those were the items that were part of the discussion?"

    "The discussion was on a national NSA program that has been much discussed, yes," Mueller responded.

    The NSA, or National Security Agency, runs the program that eavesdropped on terror suspects in the United States, without court approval, until last January, when the program was put under the authority of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

    © 2007 The Associated Press

  20. #20
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Mueller was not in the hospital room at the time of the dramatic March 10, 2004, confrontation between Ashcroft and presidential advisers Andy Card and Gonzales, who was then serving as White House counsel. Mueller told the House Judiciary Committee he arrived shortly after they left, and then spoke with the ailing Ashcroft.

    "Did you have an understanding that the conversation was on TSP?" asked Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas in a round of questioning that may have sounded to listeners like bureaucratic alphabet soup.

    "I had an understanding the discussion was on a NSA program, yes," Mueller answered.

    Jackson sought to clarify: "We use 'TSP,' we use 'warrantless wiretapping,' so would I be comfortable in saying that those were the items that were part of the discussion?"

    "The discussion was on a national NSA program that has been much discussed, yes," Mueller responded.
    Again, both Comey and Gonzales have already said it wasn't the same program.

    Besides, Mueller wasn't in the room and his testimony is based on his understanding after a conversation with Ashcroft.

  21. #21
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    FBI Director Contradicts Gonzales

    By LAURIE KELLMAN and LARA JAKES JORDAN
    The Associated Press
    Thursday, July 26, 2007; 5:18 PM

    WASHINGTON -- The head of the FBI contradicted Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' sworn testimony and Senate Democrats requested a perjury investigation Thursday in a fresh barrage against President Bush's embattled longtime friend and aide.

    In a third blow to the Bush administration, the Senate Judiciary Committee issued subpoenas to compel the testimony of Karl Rove, Bush's chief political adviser, in connection with its investigation.

    "It has become apparent that the attorney general has provided at a minimum half-truths and misleading statements," four Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee wrote in a letter to Solicitor General Paul Clement calling for a special counsel to investigate.

    "I'm convinced that he's not telling the truth,"
    added Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

    The developments marked a troubling turn for Gonzales as well as the administration, which has been on the political defensive since congressional Democrats launched an investigation seven months ago into the firings of U.S. attorneys.

    That probe revealed information that Democrats have sought to weave into a pattern of improper political influence over prosecutions, of stonewalling and of deceit in sworn testimony before Congress.

    The White House defiantly stuck by Gonzales and denied that FBI Director Robert S. Mueller had contradicted him.

    Democrats insisted that Gonzales had been untruthful and that the White House had encouraged top aides to flout congressional subpoenas in the U.S. attorney probe.

    But Gonzales took the toughest hits Thursday, when four Senate Democrats issued a list of examples of what they said was the attorney general lying to Congress under oath _ the basis for their request to Clement to appoint a special counsel to investigate.

    Among the Democrats' examples of Gonzales' untruthfulness was his emphatic and repeated statement to the Judiciary Committee Tuesday that his dramatic nighttime visit to the bedside of Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004 was not related to an internal administration dispute about the president's secret warrantless eavesdropping program.

    In his own sworn testimony Thursday, Mueller contradicted his boss, saying under questioning that the terrorist surveillance program (TSP) was the topic of the hospital room dispute between top Bush administration officials.

    Mueller was not in the hospital room at the time of the dramatic March 10, 2004, confrontation between Ashcroft and presidential advisers Andy Card and Gonzales, who was then serving as White House counsel. Mueller told the House Judiciary Committee he arrived shortly after they left, and then spoke with the ailing Ashcroft.

    "Did you have an understanding that the conversation was on TSP?" asked Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas in a round of questioning that may have sounded to listeners like bureaucratic alphabet soup.

    "I had an understanding the discussion was on a NSA program, yes," Mueller answered.

    Jackson sought to clarify: "We use 'TSP,' we use 'warrantless wiretapping,' so would I be comfortable in saying that those were the items that were part of the discussion?"

    "The discussion was on a national NSA program that has been much discussed, yes," Mueller responded.

    The NSA, or National Security Agency, runs the program that eavesdropped on terror suspects in the United States, without court approval, until last January, when the program was put under the authority of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

    © 2007 The Associated Press
    Come on Boutons The FBI director must have an agenda.. sheesh.he's john kerry all over again..

  22. #22
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    I didn't know that's what the polls say. How do you interpret that from approve/dissaprove? Maybe the republican voters dissaprove of how nice the republican congress is being to their opposition?

    In the habbit of jumping to comclusions?

    Take those colored glasses off please and keep an open ming.

    I'm taking the same liberty yoni does..I am simply going to interpret these polls in a way that proves my point.. see the beauty in that is that I don't have to back my point up because my opinion is proof enough

  23. #23
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Come on Boutons The FBI director must have an agenda.. sheesh.he's john kerry all over again..
    I didn't accuse the FBI Director of anything. In fact, I don't see where the FBI Director accuses AG Gonzales of anything either.

    The newspaper is the one that came to the conclusion Mueller contradicted Gonzales.

  24. #24
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I'm taking the same liberty yoni does..I am simply going to interpret these polls in a way that proves my point.. see the beauty in that is that I don't have to back my point up because my opinion is proof enough
    You'd have a point if you also showed "all the polls" that supported your interpretation.

    Just how many polls are we talking about?

  25. #25
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    see the beauty in that is that I don't have to back my point up because my opinion is proof enough
    Continue such things and you will be deemed unreliable and put on my INGNORE list.

    Shouldn't a person debate with factual intent? It's one thing to be wrong, but what you are doing cons utes a lie!

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