Not including Tim Duncan.
I'm writing an article and need a consensus of who are the top ten power forwards and centers ever.
Discuss.
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. (H)Akeem Olajuwon
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Karl Malone
7. Moses Malone
8. George Mikan
9. Elvin Hayes
10. Bob Pet /David Robinson (Tie)
Honorable Mention
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Artis Gilmore (more ABA than NBA)
Kevin McHale
Patrick Ewing
Charles Barkley
Connie Hawkins
It is difficult to define best because of the era/talent differences. The only player on the list above that I have not seen play, personally, is Mikan. His impact and number of les when he played put him in the top 10, although he probably would be a bench player or IR player if he played today at 6'-10".
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Karl Malone
6. Moses Malone
7. David Robinson
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Patrick Ewing
10. George Mikan
Hmmm...pretty similar to the other guy's list.
Yeah, I should have mentioned to not include Mikan either. Although I'm sure he was a great player in his time, including him wouldn't make sense for the article that I'm writing.The only player on the list above that I have not seen play, personally, is Mikan.
Good lists so far.
I'd rate Methuselah above Warm Karl and Shaq any day, probably ahead of Dead man walking too.
1 Wilt
2 Russel
3 Moses
4 you dumbasses are forgetting Barkley
5 Kareem
6 Hakeem
7 Greates white pf of all time Karl Malone
8 Hayes
9 Robinson
10 Unseld
I didn't forget Barkley but I do know how to spell Russell.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. (H)Akeem Olajuwon
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Karl Malone
7. Moses Malone
8. George Mikan
9. Elvin Hayes
10. Bob Pet /David Robinson (Tie)
Honorable Mention
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Artis Gilmore (more ABA than NBA)
Kevin McHale
Patrick Ewing
Charles Barkley
Connie Hawkins
Some pf/c are easy to include because they led their teams to les, or were key to those runs:
wilt
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
Now, putting anyone without a ring in with those guys, in my opinion, is not just. David was clearly at a level below the key contributor to his rings, so he doesn't get the same kind of credit for his that the top 5 get. IMO, the next 5 are in a "great but level below the creme" catagory.
Karl
Barkley
David
Moses
x?
That last slot is hard for me, because I didn't get a chance to really see basketball much pre 90 (more out of lack of interest than out of age).
uhm Moses led his team to the championship, you know, fo fo fo. The 6ers traded for him and then they kinda had one of the best teams ever.
Anyways you can't quantify greatness by championships in a team sport. Dan Marino and Jim Kelley never won does that make them qb's than Trent Dilfer who did. Is John Stockton a lesser pg than Derek Fisher, Horace Grant a better pf than Karl Malone? The smaller a team in the sport the more weight a ring might bring but the only time championships are the measure of greatness is in individual sports like tennis and golf.
Yes I am!
Here's my list...with the exception of Wilt and Russell I am only going to list players I have seen play...I am going to save the BS PC inclusion of players that played 60 years ago that no one, and I mean not even people that followed in the NBA back then, has seen play. 500 people in in Minneapolis got to see him play..that's it..he was big..I would probably take Rasho Nesterovich over him if I was drafting a team right now and could use any player in history........Wilt and Russell are fairly easy to include because of various statistics and a direct link of matching up with semi modern players that I have seen play.
I also give credit to my players for being two way players...who played both O and D...This is going to bump guys like Barkley and Moses Malone down on my list.
1.Wilt Chamberlain - Greatest player of all time! **** this Jordan crap....Look, averaging
50 PPG for a season was a freak prior to Wilt playing in the NBA, it was a freak while he was playing in the NBA, it was a freak after he was done playing in the NBA...It is a freak now.
50 PPG! No one else, other than Wilt has ever even averaged 40 PPG...so this so called "his numbers were a product of his
era" horse argument doesn't wash...No one else came close to 50 PPG while he was playing, others approached his rebounding numbers......and others did reach the high mark for mortal players in PPG...that of 37 - 38
PPG...a mark that was reached even in the Jordan era..So how is it that 38 PPG has been reachable in mutiple eras but 50 PPG hasn't been reachable by anyone, in any era, unless it was Wilt? Add to that the fact that the guy also lead the league in assists...he is the only player to ever record a triple double double...that feat is achieved by getting at least 20 in 3 different statistical categories...Wilt totaled over 20 points boards and assists in a single game on more than one occasion...I don't doubt that if anyone ever recorded a quintuple double it was Wilt...Quite simply the greatest player of all time and to me that point isn't even arguable.
Wilt is far and away better than any other bigman to ever play the game...he is far and away better than any other player to play the game.
2.Kareem - Second greatest player of all time! The original Super Center...he has the rings, the stats, the longevity...he won at every level...Kareem is the greatest mortal player of all time...
3.Hakeem - Won every playoff matchup against every great center in the greatest era of the center. Owns post season victories over Kareem, Ewing, Shaq and Drob(usually on the way to the finals or NBA les).
4.David Robinson...and all you LakerFans and bigmedia apologists who call themselves Spurs fans can first go yourselves and then go take a huge ing leap off of the tallest building in town...
The simple fact is that David Robinson is statistically the most versatile center in NBA history, he was statistically the best center(and many times the best player) in his era, as his IBM awards attest...in the greatest era of the Center...and he has a winning record against all of the other great Centers of his era...
The difference between David Robinson...and Hakeem and Shaq, and even Kareem and Wilt....David Robinson never failed to make the playoffs in a season in which he was healthy, he never had a losing record, he never even had a 500 record...in fact, the only other center who can say that is Bill Russell...and the difference between Robinson and Russell is that Drob wasn't surrounded by 3-7 other Hall of Famers every year of his career, in a media darling town.
Drob and Jordan are the only players to win a scoring le and a DPOY award...the ultimate sign of versatility...Drob ended a 19 year scoring drought by Centers in the NBA...the only center on this list that can say he scored more points than Drob in a game is Wilt...
Quite honestly the praise so often given to Russell of being more worried about helping his team win than individual numbers more deservedly belongs to David Robinson...he was the guy who both gave up his numbers, or increased them...as his team needed...By Drob's own admission he isn't much of a scorer and never was...One has to then ask just how in the **** he won a scoring le and scored 70 Points in a game...could you imagine if he had been a scorer or had a go to move?
I would like to say that Kareem, Drob and Hakeem...are all very similar players and all very close in my ranking...the difference between Drob and the other two is more due to longevity than anything else...
By the way...for all you ring counters...Drob is the only Center to win two NBA les without an All Star or All NBA guard on his team. And Hakeem is the only other guy to do it once...
5.Shaq - The criticism most often leveled at Wilt is more deservedly leveled at Shaq, for it is Shaq whose numbers are product of his era...people often wonder what kind of numbers Shaq would have put up in the 50's, 60's or 70's and I say to you this....He put up his numbers in this era because in this era refs swallow their whistles and allow physical play that never would have been allowed in previous eras....Shaq would have fouled out more in other eras than he does in this one...IMO..for his method of disloding his defender is against the rules stated in the NBA rule book...it is called an offensive foul...and the defenition of O foul is much more open to interpretation in this era than it was in any other.
Now that we are through the top 5 we get to the more offensive or defensive oriented players with one exception...
6.Elvin Hayes - This guy IMO was the best defensive PF of all time not named Tim Duncan...he was also a pretty good offensive player...I only got to see him at the end of his career and I still think he was the best I ever saw on D other than Duncan.
7.Moses Malone - Honestly this guy is the most over-rated Center ever...he played absolutely no defense, in fact he didn't even try to play defense...
Everyone will mention his le with the 6'ers( won with Dr J and Maurice Cheeks) as proof of his greatness...to which I respond...he got to play with those guys more than 1 year...in fact in later years Charles Barkley and Bob Mcadoo were added to some of those teams...why didn't he win then?
8.Bob McAdoo - Probably deserved to be rated ahead of Malone but I only got to see him at the tail end of his career, in my gut I think he was a better offensive player than Moses Malone.
9.Bill Russell - Winning 11 les but doing it with 3-7 other HOF'ers on your team every single year of your career, and being the best rebounder ever, gets you 9th on my list.
I'd take those Celtic teams over a lot of guys on my list...but I wouldn't take Russell by himself over any of the guys ranked ahead of him on my list...People always bring up Wilt's FT shooting as a weakness in his game and a way in which he hurt his teams...yet no one ever mentions that Russell was nearly as a bad a FT shooter...I wonder why....
10.Artis Gilmore - He, not Shaq, not Wilt, is the best PCT shooter in basketball history and also and excellent defensive player...The prototypical Center...high PCT shooter, great shotblocker and rebounder...IMO the most under-rated Center ever...he probably deserves to be higher on my list, and I can't really give a good reason for him not being higher...other than the fact that he is so grossly over-looked I doubt my own judgement just a little...he definitely belongs on the list of the best ever and he definitely belong in the HOF.
Honorable mentions...Elgin Baylor(who I admit I am clueless of his game..he put up astounding power numbers for a short man though)
Charles Barkley(played no D, absolutely no ing D)
Bill Walton(versatile),
Karl Malone(statisticaly Malone deserves higher ranking...but I look at the teams and players on which he played that failed to win a le, the coaches he had...I don't place a lot of emphasis on rings in a team sport...but Malone has no excuses...no one has played with as many great players and coaches as Malone and failed to win a ring...I won't give huge credit for winning rings, but in this case I will penalize for not winning one...he's got no excuses and I saw him cost his team at least one momentum swinging game, via pure blatant choke at a key moment, in the NBA finals).
oh god its begun. somehome Raphael Palmeiro will get involved
Interesting points so far:
1) People's dramatic views on Barkley. Love or hate.
2) Ewing not being named on a top ten list yet.
3) Wilt always being number one. Russell and Jabbar have their supporters ... somewhere.
Keep up the good work.
What part of "go yourself and then take a huge leap off the tallest building in town" don't you understand, you crack huffing, Drob hating ?oh god its begun. somehome Raphael Palmeiro will get involved
Need directions? One American Center @ 4th and Congress...let me know if you need a ride over there.
TimVP, I like Barkley but as with Malone...look at the teams and players that Barkley got to play with that failed to win les...Scottie Pippen knew how to win rings, so did Hakeem, so did Drexler, so did Dr. J and Moses Malone...I have vivid memories of a miserable Barkley on mediocre Sixers teams prior to his trade to the Suns...Great player but don't think he's among the 10 best bigmen ever...and he didn't play D. He makes my all time quote team though...
As for Ewing...Ewing wasn't even in the top 3 Centers of his ERA IMO...much less one of the top 10 ever...He's Alonzo Mourning with more longevity...Good Center....not one of the best ever...and he played on some very talented teams, backed by lots of money as well...The best thing Ewing had going for him in being one of the greatest ever is that he played in New York...that's about the only reason he even gets mentioned IMO.
welp this thread is dead
Let's keep this moving. I was hoping to link to this thread in the final article.
My list.
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Moses
6. Hakeem
7. Mikan
8. Karl
9. David
10. Reed
I would like to also mention, that I'm factoring a considerable gap between #4 and #5. Personally, I think the top 4 are at a level on their own, because of what they have accomplished in their careers.
Whottt, Elgin normally played the smaller forward position on the Lakers.Elgin Baylor(who I admit I am clueless of his game..he put up astounding power numbers for a short man though)
I don't really consider him a post player. With that said, he was so good though, like Magic or Larry Bird, he could play just about anywhere. He was a basketball player, not just a positional guy. He was the first guy I remember the announcers using the terms "hang time" and "double pump".
I think shaq will slip further down when he is not as productive without kobe:next3
The only reason Wilt was so good was because he was a tall freak at that time and the only move he did was go on the left block and stretch out his RIGHT arm and put the ball in the hoop he didn't even have a left hand. Any of the great centers from the 85's and up would have dominated Wilt and I don't see Wilt giving his team 6 rings.
Jordan >>>>> Wilt.
Also, Wilt was a ball hog it's like Kobe to the billionth power. Also if Jordan was alive in that era and played........he'd average more than 50.
Name another center to lead the league in total assists.Wilt was a ball hog it's like Kobe to the billionth power.
If you have a guy making 70% of his shots over a whole season, no one else on that team should be shooting.
E20, nice guess but that's really not true. When Wilt got the ball in a position to score down on the block, he did. Someone had to pass it to him, whether it was Guy Rodgers or Hal Greer or Gail Goodrich entering the offense.Also, Wilt was a ball hog it's like Kobe to the billionth power. Also if Jordan was alive in that era and played........he'd average more than 50.
Besides, Wilt got a lot of his points after he rebounded his teammates shots and then he would dunk or finger-roll them in (yes, Wilt finger-rolled well before Ice did).
Wilt did **** 20,000 chicks tho
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