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So is divorce......really sad.......
So is divorce......really sad.......
Here we go again. Great job NPR/API. Any new news? This appears to be a redressed December 2006 story by USA Today:
Suicide rate es among troops sent to Iraq war
Now in the USA Today story lists the national figures of 10.4/100,000 for 1993. Not a fair comparison with the military since women are not enrolled at the same percentage as men.
Wiki has the 2002 figures as 11.0, but this is with a 50/50 male female average. The 2002 wiki numbers include 17.6 male and 4.1 female. If I assume a 90% male 10% female mix, that brings the equivalent US numbers to 16.25 rather than the 11.0. Not far from the military statistics for 2006 of 17.3.
Considering the added stress of war, I wouldn't call these stories news worthy! Notice how the male/female balance is ignored in the stories to sex them up a bit.
There is a much more obvious math problem;
Army suicides at highest level in 26 years
WASHINGTON (AP) —Washington POSTArmy soldiers committed suicide last year at the highest rate in 26 years, and more than a quarter did so while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new military report.
The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War.
The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
1991 - 2007 = 16 YEARS, not 26! DOH!
professional nitpicker ^
A. So what you're saying, WC, is that there aren't two separate studies being released (the one in 2006 which you link to and the one being released today in Dan's link)?
B. Dan, in the lede of that article in which you quoted a snippet, what are those two letters following the dateline of Washington? It says "AP" as in The Associated Press. The AP is responsible for that story and you don't even link to the Washington Post, you linked it to USA Today. I can't see how anybody can have any sort of conversation with you when you can't even master basic facts such as those.
C. By starting a new graf and having the one with the 1991 and 2007 numbers in a separate graf, the story is saying that 1) these are the specific numbers, 2) the three different grafs reference hard numbers in the 1991 and 2006 listing and the overall ratio over the past 26 years. Just because the highest numbers were in 1991 does not necessarily make that the highest ratio. The grafs are referencing two different time frames.
But just so you feel better about it, Dan, since I know you have so much concern for the media, they've made it a little cleaner for you.
Date: 08/15/2007 09:34 PM
BC-Army Suicides,3rd Ld-Writethru/615
Eds: SUBS 2nd graf to SPECIFY it was highest number since 1991, adding word 'number'.
Army suicides at highest rate in 26 years, more than a quarter in Iraq and Afghanistan
By PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Army soldiers committed suicide last year at the highest rate in 26 years, and more than a quarter did so while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new military report.
The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest number since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War.
The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
Last year, "Iraq was the most common deployment location for both (suicides) and attempts," the report said.
The 99 suicides included 28 soldiers deployed to the two wars and 71 who weren't. About twice as many women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan committed suicide as did women not sent to war, the report said.
Preliminary numbers for the first half of this year indicate the number of suicides could decline across the service in 2007 but increase among troops serving in the wars, officials said.
The increases for 2006 came as Army officials worked to set up a number of new and stronger programs for providing mental health care to a force strained by the longer-than-expected war in Iraq and the global counterterrorism war entering its sixth year.
Failed personal relationships, legal and financial problems and the stress of their jobs were factors motivating the soldiers to commit suicide, according to the report.
"In addition, there was a significant relationship between suicide attempts and number of days deployed" in Iraq, Afghanistan or nearby countries where troops are participating in the war effort, it said. The same pattern seemed to hold true for those who not only attempted, but succeeded in killing themselves.
There also "was limited evidence to support the view that multiple ... deployments are a risk factor for suicide behaviors," it said.
About a quarter of those who killed themselves had a history of at least one psychiatric disorder. Of those, about 20 percent had been diagnosed with a mood disorder such as bipolar disorder and/or depression; and 8 percent had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, including post traumatic stress disorder _ one of the signature injuries of the conflict in Iraq.
Firearms were the most common method of suicide. Those who attempted suicide but didn't succeed tended more often to take overdoses and cut themselves.
In a service of more than a half million troop, the 99 suicides amounted to a rate of 17.3 per 100,000 _ the highest in the past 26 years, the report said. The average rate over those years has been 12.3 per 100,000.
The rate for those serving in the wars stayed about the same, 19.4 per 100,000 in 2006, compared with 19.9 in 2005.
The Army said the information was compiled from reports collected as part of its suicide prevention program _ reports required for all "suicide-related behaviors that result in death, hospitalization or evacuation" of the soldier. It can take considerable time to investigate a suicide and, in fact, the Army said that in addition to the 99 confirmed suicides last year, there are two other deaths suspected as suicides in which investigations were pending.
___
Associated Press reporter Lolita C. Baldor contributed to this report from Washington.
___
On the Net:
Defense Department: www.defenselink.mil
Talk about nit-picking....Dan, in the lede of that article in which you quoted a snippet, what are those two letters following the dateline of Washington? It says "AP" as in The Associated Press. The AP is responsible for that story and you don't even link to the Washington Post, you linked it to USA Today. I can't see how anybody can have any sort of conversation with you when you can't even master basic facts such as those.
I'm not the one calling you a nitpicker. I'm the one calling you an idiot that for some reason, can't get his own biased eyes to scan a news story long enough to see who actually wrote it.Talk about nit-picking....
Oh, and I fail to see where you said I was wrong.
You call somebody out for math they didn't attempt to make, but you roll your eyes when you're called out because you see the dateline of Washington and immediately associate it with the Washington Post.
Journalism lesson: The dateline is not the media outlet which wrote the story. The dateline references where the story took place and where the reporter did the legwork.
The link you tried to establish but massively failed at.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...topnews&sub=AR
Army Suicides Highest in 26 Years
By PAULINE JELINEK
The Associated Press
Wednesday, August 15, 2007; 11:44 PM
From the article...Just because the highest numbers were in 1991 does not necessarily make that the highest ratio. The grafs are referencing two different time frames.
So he is obviously not referencing the rate, but the raw numbers...The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
No ratio.The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest number since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War.
Ratio.The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ratio
ra·tio /ˈreɪʃoʊ, -ʃiˌoʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-shoh, -shee-oh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -tios.
1. the relation between two similar magnitudes with respect to the number of times the first contains the second: the ratio of 5 to 2, written 5:2 or 5/2.
------
Graf one: No ratio.
Graf two: Ratio.
I'm not saying our wrong, I'm just pointing out that it's nit-picking a story that you obviously can't logically disagree with other-wise....
Graf one: "The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest number since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War."
Where's the ratio?
Graf two: "The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001."
There's the ratio.
I can't argue logic with someone that can't even set up their argument correctly to begin with.
And where's your argument? Divorce is sad, too?
Oh, that's right, your argument must have been the math, which I have since logically disproved via the start of a new graf.
What's the le of this thread again? Army suicides highest ratio in....? nope....
It appears to me that the USA Today story I linked was the original storyline for the data, but before the figures were official.
My key point is that the numbers are not excessive however. They are not statistically different than the nationwide suicide rates as a whole. What the storyline should be is something to the effect:
"Military suicide rates in line with national suicide rates during wartime"
I say that because the peacetime suicide rates in the military are about half that of the national rates. For this story to maintain credibility, it should be more honest.
What's the lede say?
I would argue that no matter the numbers, the release of an official report on military suicides (or the acquiring of the report prior to its release) is news, whether it be low or high or in the middle.
The story draws its conclusions from the information in the report, it's the reader's job to take that information and reach their conclusions. If the report is saying it's the highest rate, that's on the report, not the reporter.
Date: 08/15/2007 09:34 PM
BC-Army Suicides,3rd Ld-Writethru/615
Eds: SUBS 2nd graf to SPECIFY it was highest number since 1991, adding word 'number'.
Army suicides at highest rate in 26 years, more than a quarter in Iraq and Afghanistan
By PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Army soldiers committed suicide last year at the highest rate in 26 years, and more than a quarter did so while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new military report.
Tell ya what, Danny Boy...let's let the report come out later today and let's just see how many years they have data for.
My money's on 26, yours is on 16.
The average suicide rate in the U.S. is about 12 per 100,000, but that includes Americans over 85 who account for 65/1000 U.S. SUICIDESMy key point is that the numbers are not excessive however. They are not statistically different than the nationwide suicide rates as a whole. What the storyline should be is something to the effect
If your argument is that U.S. TROOPS were killing themselves at a larger ratio in 1981, with no war going on, than in 1991, during GW1, yeah, I'll take your money and what's left of your online dignity...
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