SI.com: All Time Team- Ian Thomsen (Of Course Duncan's On It)

[duncan228]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ime/index.html

My All-Time Team
Russell anchors starting lineup; Wilt, Kobe miss cut
By Ian Thomsen

This week SI.com let four writers live out a GM's dream. The assignment? Pick three Dream Teams in each of the four major team sports: one for the best of all-time, one built to win right now and one built for five years from now. Each team features a complete roster of players, including reserves, as well as coaches. Check out our experts' picks, then weigh in with your thoughts.

The league has changed drastically from the time of Bill Russell to that of Kobe Bryant, so I looked for dominance within eras, with the emphasis on winning championships. In this league, the best players dominate the playoffs, which is why Shaquille O'Neal makes it and Wilt Chamberlain doesn't: The former ruled his era, while the latter finished a distant second in the postseason to Russell.

Every player on this list won a championship and 10 of them were league MVPs -- the exceptions being John Havlicek and Jerry West, whose inclusions are beyond question. The tough call was Bryant, who was on my original list. But I couldn't include him at the expense of Bob Cousy, who won All-NBA first-team honors for 10 straight years, including the four prior to Russell's arrival in Boston.

FRONTCOURT

SF | Larry Bird | Boston Celtics (1979-92)
More athletic in the open court over the first half of his career than legend has it, Bird was a threat to score or assist from any spot on the floor. He is arguably the greatest clutch shooter in history, and the only small forward to ever be league MVP.

PF | Tim Duncan | San Antonio Spurs (1997-present)
The greatest power forward in history, he has become the Bill Russell of his generation. In an era when power forward is the NBA's best position, Duncan is at the top of the list as the league's most versatile player at both ends of the court.

C | Bill Russell | Boston Celtics (1956-69)
Eleven championships in 13 years, including eight in a row. He invented the blocked shot and established the precedent that rings were more important than scoring les. Russell is far and away the most important and influential player in the history of the game.


BACKCOURT

PG | Magic Johnson | Los Angeles Lakers (1979-91, '95-96)
With an unprecedented blend of size, open-floor athleticism and leadership, he led the Lakers to five championships and nine NBA Finals in 12 years -- a run that is second only to Russell's.

SG | Michael Jordan | Chicago Bulls (1984-93, '94-98), Washington Wizards (2001-03)
He led the league in scoring each of the six years that he led the Bulls to a championship. Only George Mikan (twice, in 1949-50 and '51-52), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1970-71) and Shaquille O'Neal (1999-2000) have been able to pull off that trick.

COACH

Coach | Red Auerbach | Washington Capitols (1946-49), Tri-Cities Blackhawks (1949-50), Boston Celtics (1950-66)
I'm going with Red on the basis of originality and courage, for putting forth the first all-black starting five in racist Boston. His relationships with players set the standard for future generations of coaches, as did his offensive and defensive systems. Phil Jackson has faced an entirely different set of cir stances in his era, and has done practically as well -- so no argument here for those who would prefer to put Jackson in this chair.

RESERVES
POSITION PLAYER
C Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal
F Bob Pet , John Havlicek
G Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Bob Cousy

[ambchang]

So what this guy is saying is that the quality of your FO factors in your greatness, as well as the strength of your opposition.
He left Wilt out because he didn't have a lot of postseason success, but how much of that was because Russell was really better than Wilt, and how much is it because the Celtics > 6ers, Lakers?
Now even IF Russell > Wilt, but what if Russell is #1 of all time, and Wilt is #2? That means that Russell will beat Wilt in all head to heads, leaving Wilt with limited post-season success, thus leading to Wilt being excluded from the list despite being #2.
Vs. a guy like Shaq, who didn't get any success until the previous era's dominant big men were old and has declined (Hakeem DRob, Ewing) did he start to dominate, but does that make him a more dominant player than WIlt?

[lotr1trekkie]

If Wilt and Russel had traded team places how would the results been diffierent?

[goliath]

He also had Manu as a reserve forward and Pop as the coach (along with Tim as the starting center) on his "All-Current Team"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ent/index.html

and had Tony as the staring point guard on his "All-Future Team"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ent/index.html

[duncan228]

He also had Manu as a reserve forward and Pop as the coach (along with Tim as the starting center) on his "All-Current Team"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ent/index.html

and had Tony as the staring point guard on his "All-Future Team"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ent/index.html

I got them all, I posted them separately.

All Current is here:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76063

All Future is here:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76065

[dbreiden83080]

Wilt was better than Russell he was far better on offense also a great defender and an even better rebounder than Russell. The teams he played on were just not as good as the Celts.

[ShoogarBear]

the only small forward to ever be league MVP.

Uhhhhh . . .

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and Russell won EVERYWHERE he went, college/pro.

Wilt was great, but his wilting goes back to his college days in Kansas when they lost to an NC team they should have beaten.

Saying Wilt > Russell is like saying KG > Duncan.

[wildbill2u]

Having Shaq ahead of Wilt Chamberlain is just wrong. I'm not going to the perrenial Russell v. Chamberlain arguments because I've been doing that for more than 40 years and still don't have the definitive answer.

But Chamberlain affected the game in a way that few people have. Rules were changed because of him and the court itself was changed.

The following excerpt is from Wilt's bio on NBA.com:

"During his career, his dominance precipitated many rules changes. These rules changed included widening the lane, ins uting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket)."

[ShoogarBear]

Having Shaq ahead of Wilt Chamberlain is just wrong. I'm not going to the perrenial Russell v. Chamberlain arguments because I've been doing that for more than 40 years and still don't have the definitive answer.

I agree with that. Wilt never got swept six times in the playoffs, either.

[barbacoataco]

I like Kareem as the #1 Center. With him you don't have to choose between individual success (Chamberlain) and team success (Russell.) Kareem did it all for a very long time-- scoring, rebounding, blocking, passing. He had un unstoppable shot (sky hook) and even when he was old he was good.

[rasho8]

"No coach has a better understanding of his players or how to use the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Notice that you scarcely hear whispers from San Antonio that the Spurs are tiring of Popovich? That's the rarest quality among NBA coaches."

Unless youre listening to SequSpur

[Slomo]

"No coach has a better understanding of his players or how to use the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Notice that you scarcely hear whispers from San Antonio that the Spurs are tiring of Popovich? That's the rarest quality among NBA coaches."

Unless youre listening to SequSpur

or Beno.

[ShoogarBear]

The more I think about that starting lineup--Bird, Duncan, Russell, Johnson, Jordan--the more genius it is.

Can anyone think of five OTHER players who could beat them?

[Sec24Row7]

The starting 5 of the Argentinian National team in 2004?

Or did you forget how great teams on paper do in actual games...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The more I think about that starting lineup--Bird, Duncan, Russell, Johnson, Jordan--the more genius it is.

Can anyone think of five OTHER players who could beat them?

I agree. I think it's a great list actually...but I'd of given a month's meth payments to see them in their primes play against....

Julius Erving
James Worthy
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
George Gervin

That would have been a great game.

[duncan228]

Wow...You guys had me breathless for a moment.

What a game that would be.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree. I think it's a great list actually...but I'd of given a month's meth payments to see them in their primes play against....

Julius Erving
James Worthy
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
George Gervin

That would have been a great game.

That's an even better offensive lineup than the first team, but has some rebounding and defensive deficiencies.

The first team has no weaknesses I can see, other than Bird and Magic's individual defense, which would be more than made up for by their solid team defense.

Okay, other than maybe having Duncan and Russell shoot free throws.

[Strike]

I agree. I think it's a great list actually...but I'd of given a month's meth payments to see them in their primes play against....

Julius Erving
James Worthy
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
George Gervin

That would have been a great game.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Oh, and Russell won EVERYWHERE he went, college/pro.

Wilt was great, but his wilting goes back to his college days in Kansas when they lost to an NC team they should have beaten.

Saying Wilt > Russell is like saying KG > Duncan.

Except for unlike Garnett, Chamberlain actually has two NBA championships. And even if you stripped away the rings, Duncan is still a better player than Garnett, where as Wilt is clearly better than Chamberlain as far as their individual game goes. Wilt is far and away the most dominant player in the history of the NBA, and probably second only to Babe Ruth as far as all time sports history goes.

As far as teams that could beat the original team mentioned, I'd have to go with:

Chamberlain
Walton
Pippen
Baylor
Robertson

[Big Empty]

my alltime team
Starters
C-Kareem
PF-Duncan
SF-Lebron
SG-Jordan
PG-Magic

Bench
C-Hakeem
PF-Malone
SF-Bird
SG-Kobe
PG-Stockton