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they want to change their goal to:
"a government that functions and can bring security."
isnt' that what they had under Saddam??
ing re ed
U.S. officials rethink hopes for Iraq democracy
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security.
A workable democratic and sovereign government in Iraq was one of the Bush administration's stated goals of the war.
But for the first time, exasperated front-line U.S. generals talk openly of non-democratic governmental alternatives, and while the two top U.S. officials in Iraq still talk about preserving the country's nascent democratic ins utions, they say their ambitions aren't as "lofty" as they once had been.
"Democratic ins utions are not necessarily the way ahead in the long-term future," said Brig. Gen. John "Mick" Bednarek, part of Task Force Lightning in Diyala province, one of the war's major battlegrounds.
The comments reflect a practicality common among Western diplomats and officials trying to win hearts and minds in the Middle East and other non-Western countries where democracy isn't a tradition.
The failure of Iraq to emerge from widespread instability is a bitter pill for the United States, which optimistically toppled the Saddam Hussein regime more than four years ago. Millions of Iraqis went to the polls to cast ballots, something that generated great promise for the establishment of a democratic system.
But Iraqi ins utions, from the infrastructure to the national government, are widely regarded as ineffective in the fifth year of the war.
Read rest of story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...acy/index.html
they want to change their goal to:
"a government that functions and can bring security."
isnt' that what they had under Saddam??
ing re ed
lolz
"Democratic ins utions are not necessarily the way ahead in the long-term future," said Brig. Gen. John "Mick" Bednarek
I couldve told you that before invading. These people are not ready for democracy. even our own country can't run a fair democracy.
What a stupid assine statement. Not ready for democracy.
I couldve told you that before invading. These people are not ready for democracy. even our own country can't run a fair democracy.
What are they ready for?
Damn glad we didn't have people like you when we were
fighting for our independence.
Par ion and ethnic cleansing. The latter is already happening.What are they ready for?
After that democracy would be much easier. Might even have three of them instead of one.
That's the key difference: we were fighting for our independence.
you are the only one left that was here in 1776.
They need to be ruled by someone to keep their asses in check because they obviously can't do it, and we can't either.
The real stupidity is not on my part. I'm not the one who advocated going in trying to instill a democracy amongst people who have been at each others throats for 2000 years. They don't want to work together or compromise, both of which are vital to a functioning democracy. Wake the up!
Sorry to burst your bubble ray, but democracy isn't for everyone. It's the best form of government, and it works great in the Western world but it doesn't work everywhere. But of course your American hubris is blinding you from seeing that.
exactly.
And let me say that I would love to see a democratic Iraq. I wish they were ready to get along. Some might say that I'm just a defeatist. That I actually want them to fail only to see Bush's face in the mud. How dumb.
Its in our best interest to succeed. I don't care one way or the other how, or who gets the credit.
But I'm a realist. A functioning democracy is not in Iraq's near future. I suspect Petraeus' report to admit such unless Bush doctors it like he tried with the Surgeon General.
We know that most of the people want democracy. The older people remember a time before Saddam Hussain took over and executed the previous government. The younger people have now had a taste of democracy. They just still live in fear.
Much of what we have is similar to gang run parts of our inner cities. We simple have such things on a larger scale in Iraq, and the people are afraid of the gangs. Like these 'no snitch' policies people honor here.
Someday, as long as patriots here and there work together for freedom. They will have it. They won't have a system quite like ours, and their final results still may be a theocracy based system. What matters is a democracy that works for their culture.
You nay-sayers can say all you want. It just shows how pathetic you are.
There is progress. Yes it's slow, but it is there. As long as the average trend is progress... those who speak of defeat and leaving simply appear as ignorant children who are always saying "I want it now mommy."
Those of you to the left should listen to some right leaning talk radio. Over the last few years, I have head so many interviews with soldiers that you never hear on the mainstream media and from the leftist pundits. Most of our soldiers are proud to do their job over there. The news doesn’t cover them in proportion. All we seem to see are the dissenters.
These soldiers have the true heart of our nation. Those of you who want to ‘cut and run’ are just a cancer on our society.
Lower expectations? I don't see it that way. I see it as slower progress than desired. That has been obvious for some time now hasn't it.
As long as there is progress and hope. Us true Americans will support the efforts. The rest of you can suck each other off.
o rly?
you, you piece of .
I can't stand it when some asshole calls himself a true American because he happens to not question a policy of the present government.
you. With all the antennas from your farm.
I have questioned several policies. You obviously are so biased in you views, you cannot see anything but hatred.
I said "a policy" numbnuts.
And I am biased against assholes like you, because you're an asshole.
While I think fighting to instill a democracy is a noble idea, I really feel that unless the fight begins with the people themselves, it isn't held in the same regard. This analogy might be a bit of a stretch, but do you think that a child that is handed a great job by their father appreciates the job as much as someone who worked hard to earn the position?
For being a "libertarian", WC sure is adamant about telling people whats good for them.
He gets a hard on when he's listening to other people die for what HE believes in. That's some sacrifice. Sipping coffee from the back of a command center or plowing the back 40 of an antenna farm. Now he applauds bush for making characterizations between Iraq and VN. I think we all know what Bush know's about VN.
how to avoid it.
The invasion of Iraq was a poor decision executed horribly. The political calendar and the condition of the military will not allow us to stay much longer. It's not even a question of if or when we are going to leave now -- we've put ourselves into a position where we won't be able to control the events in Iraq even if we want to. We're going to start drawing down next spring -- then we just cross our fingers.
People like you also said Japan couldn't have a
democracy. But they do.
Might like to give the Iraqi's a little time. And by
the way, I misspoke. We have a Republic not a
democracy.
I am certainly happy you folks aren't running our country.
Although you support people just like yourself who
know what is best for everyone. Except you.
Get over it Chump. We did invade. And we cannot afford
to leave with our tails stuck between our legs. We will
win, in spit of people like you. We are winning and
even dimm-o-craps are admitting it. And even if the
dimm-o-craptic nominee, Billary, wins she has already
said we cant leave.
Yes, we had over 300,000 troops occupy the home islands we didn't even have to invade.People like you also said Japan couldn't have a
democracy. But they do.You said that four years ago.Might like to give the Iraqi's a little time.Yeah, you don't want to go after Osama and the real Al Qaeda. Yo should thank your lucky stars we have leaders who agree with you and have distracted us from that the last four years.I am certainly happy you folks aren't running our country.
I agree with that. I’m sure if I were an ignorant lemming, just hearing the main stream media, I would feel this was hopeless too. Over my years, I have learned how they lie, and you to find the truth. I also listen to a wide range of views from both the left and right talk radio.
This is not a lost cause. Only continuing propaganda from the left will lose this war over there. The people are standing up more and more.
Consider this. Those people are scared. Every time they hear the USA may pull out, those who may stand up and fight will continue to hide. Those in real danger are the ones who do stand up. They are more than willing to stand up when they see hope. Take that hope away, and they will do the best they can to stay safe.
What is their biggest fear? That our leftist pundits will win the war of propaganda. If we pull out prematurely, every Iraqi that supported freedom will be rounded up and executed.
You get that you lefties … Your ilk could become responsible for the execution of millions!
We can't afford to stay either.What does that even mean anymore?We will
win, in spit of people like you.In what way are we winning right now?We are winningThere will be some presence in the area, probably in Kudistan after the par ion. It would take two or three years to get all our crap out of the country in the best of cir stances anyway -- so yes, we can't leave in that respect.And even if the
dimm-o-craptic nominee, Billary, wins she has already
said we cant leave.
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