Reply With Quote
Dream Team would beat this team in 5. Ball movement and team play would be a HUGE advantage.
Not to mention the fact that the 92 team would absolutely annihilate this squad on the inside.
Dream Team still the best ever ... or is it?
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
LAS VEGAS -- Scattered throughout the Thomas & Mack Center on Sunday were a handful of people lucky enough to have witnessed closely the 1992 Dream Team and the 2007 U.S. Olympic qualifying team.
A few of them were on the inside back in Barcelona, spending nearly every waking hour shepherding the 1992 U.S. team -- the Dream Team -- through the ins and outs of the Olympics. Others were chronicling that team's dominance for the folks back home, who got their news from newspapers as the Web was still in its infancy.
ESPN.com talked to a bunch of them over the weekend, asking them to compare what is widely acknowledged as the greatest team ever assembled to this year's version of Team USA, which steamrolled its way through the Tournament of the Americas and will be the undisputed favorite in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
Of all of those interviewed, only one was bold enough to say what a lot of people are beginning to think.
That was Jose "Piculin" Ortiz, the Puerto Rican basketball legend who competed against the Dream Team 15 years ago and was still mixing it up in international compe ions as late as 2004, when he was a member of the Puerto Rico team that defeated the United States by 19 points in Athens.
I reintroduced myself to him up in the top row of the media seats Sunday afternoon just before halftime of the Argentina-U.S. gold medal game and asked him the same question I had been asking everyone else I could find: How does this team stack up against that team?
"I think this team is much better," Ortiz said.
"When '92 came, Larry Bird was already coming out [of the NBA], Magic was coming out. Those guys were legends, but this team is a great, talented team."
Final judgment on this version of Team USA will have to wait another year until we see how it performs in Beijing against world-class compe ion, but for now we're left with the lingering image of the breathtaking display of harmony and talent this team put on over the past two weeks while decimating its compe ion by an average of nearly 40 points per game.
At Sunday's postgame news conference, U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski seemed stunned by the level of awe and respect coming from the mouth of his Argentine counterpart, Sergio Hernandez.
"It is obvious that no one will ever forget the original Dream Team with Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, but I really like this Team USA team because they also have players of the same caliber such as LeBron James and Kobe Bryant who know how to really play together.
"They have good chemistry. They play great defense, but the most important thing for us would be the respect they have for all the other teams so much," said Hernandez, who apologized for his broken English. "I tell you, and I want to say that again and again and again, because I like when teams play hard. If they can beat me by 40 points, I don't want them to beat me by 20 points. I want 40 points -- and this is what they do.
"So, I say thank you. It was a big pleasure to play against you. The game, you see the game. They shoot 20 3-point shots, 25 fast-break points, 15 offensive rebounds. They kill Argentina. They're great."
Krzyzewski, who was an assistant on the 1992 Barcelona team, said he was enjoying this experience more. His comparison of the two teams:
"It was one of those unique experiences of my life, but it's a different time. We could win on just talent alone at that time in the history of international basketball, but those days are gone."
Here's what others who were around Team USA in 1992 and 2007 had to say:
Rod Thorn, general manager the New Jersey Nets, who was a committee member for USA Basketball in 1992:
"Athletically, I don't know that we've had a team more athletic than this team. That team had some of the icons in the history of basketball on it, so you know, it's tough to compare until this team goes on in Beijing."
Russ Granik, former NBA deputy commissioner, who was vice president of USA Basketball in 1992:
"That was a more veteran team, and what you had back then is most of those guys had never had a chance to play in the Olympics. You had a couple, Michael Jordan and David Robinson, but a lot of those guys had never had a chance to play in the Olympics, and even in their 30s they all wanted to play.
"Now you have a situation where a lot of veteran guys, like Kevin Garnett, they've had their chance to play already. So it's not the same."
Terry Lyons, former NBA vice president of international public relations, who handled media relations chores for every U.S. senior national team since '92:
"I have to say it's apples and oranges. Totally different. I'd have to say the '92 team because of the experience would have the edge. But I think this team, by far, is quicker, younger and more athletic, but the '92 team could really score up the middle. Mailman [Karl Malone] and Charles Barkley inside, [Patrick] Ewing and David Robinson up the middle were a lot to handle. But I'd love to see a game [between them]."
Jim O'Connell, longtime basketball writer for the Associated Press and a member of the Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame:
"The biggest difference is the Dream Team, most of them were two exits away from Springfield [Mass.] on I-91. They had all been around for a long time, but these guys are all at the beginnings of their careers with the exception of Jason Kidd.
"But that team had a mystique and an aura to it, because everybody knew who they were everywhere in the world, and not just in the U.S. And if you look on the court, that team had more size with the two centers, Robinson and Ewing, so they could take you inside. But this team is probably a little quicker on the perimeter because of how much younger it was.
"If I had to take one of the two teams, I'd take the Dream Team because they were so much more polished. Maybe if this team stays together and in 2012 we're talking about them, these guys might be that good of a team."
Mark Heisler, veteran NBA columnist for the Los Angeles Times:
"Dream Team was tremendous on offense. We didn't notice if they played any defense, and they probably didn't. But I think the one thing the Dream Team had, besides all the greatest players, I think Magic Johnson's personality made all the difference. He made it so that everybody wanted to play their best. Magic was the rarest of all things, he was a great player who transcended all the other great players just on personality. So there were better players on that team, Michael Jordan to start with, but Magic's personality really made that team different.
"But the one thing I really like about this team, it seems like they've got really good chemistry as far as personalities. I think Kobe's personality and Jason Kidd's personality, I think it's really impressive -- as much better as they are than everyone here -- how hard they play."
Jan Hubbard, columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, who covered the 1992 team for New York Newsday:
"Other than the '96 team that had five members of the Dream Team on it, this team is the closest to the Dream Team. Probably lacking in the middle, compared to Ewing and Robinson, but with Kobe playing defense, he mimics Jordan and Pippen. They had two defenders, and this team kind of really only has one.
"The other thing is that those guys were just legends. They had Magic, Michael and Larry, and Charles, I think in the Olympics kind of became like a legend. He was the second-best player on that team. Michael was first and Scottie [Pippen] was third.
"But that team was older, I think they had five guys over 30 -- this one has two -- more Finals appearances, more championships, more of a veteran team, and just this aura that was incredible.
"But this team is a reasonable facsimile of that, and except for the '96 team, is the best international team they've had -- and has the most promise."
Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. To e-mail Chris, click here.
Dream Team would beat this team in 5. Ball movement and team play would be a HUGE advantage.
Not to mention the fact that the 92 team would absolutely annihilate this squad on the inside.
Dream Team would absolutely dominate.
The 92 team had better jersys.
With that said:
Melo plays the role of Barclay: A guy who doesn't play D and is particularly effective at international style of play. Will be the scoring leader, despite not actually being the best player on the team.
Kobe plays the role of your Jordan.
LeBron plays the role of your Magic.
Kidd plays the role of Stockton.
While inferior, Miller/Redd plays your Bird.
The bigmen don't matter. Period.
The Dream Team would anally rape this team back to the stone age.
dream team in a laugher. the '07 team is made up of alot of rising superstars (besides kobe, kidd, chauncey, etc.). the dream team had proven, veteran winners at the peak of their games. the dream team made other countries their pants. i don't see that kind of intimadation from these guys. although i must say they're pretty ing good.
your comparisons are so ing bad...
Dream Team by 30
They did back when the Dream Team actually had Dream Team-worthy big men.
These suckers on the 2007 squad aren't even in the same league. Let them beat up on some real Olympic teams the way they did this summer and maybe we can have a real discussion.
Is this even a question?
The Paint
'92: Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Laettner
'07: Howard, Amare, Chandler, Melo
Not even close, and this is where 07 gets booted out of the conversation early. Howard and Melo have decent post games but that's about it for '07. '92 had 4 first-ballot HOFs manning the interior. You think Amare or Chandler have even half of the rebounding or defense that a DRob or Malone or Chuck could provide? Laettner would be the official towel waver.
HUGE Edge: 92
Swingmen
'92: Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Bird, Mullin
'07: Kobe, LeBron, Redd, Prince, Mike Miller
Closer in comparison, and the only semblance of an argument that 07 can put up, primarily because of its athletic ability. However, 92 had better perimeter defense with 2of the greatest: Pip and MJ. Even though Bird was old and wouldn't put up too many minutes, he was still a 3-time 3-point shootout winner. Drexler coming off the bench is crazy depth. Mullin was first-team All-NBA, 5-time All-Star and a 25 PPG+ scorer. Not to mention a sizeable advantage in IQ and passing with Bird, MJ, Pip, Glide.
Slight Edge: 92
Guards
'92: Magic, Stockton
'07: Kidd, Billups, Deron
Stockton off the bench?! Arguably two of the top 3 PGs of all time. Kidd is the only one who can even be considered a Top 10 PG of all time. 92 was more versatile, had better defense. And did I mention that the all-time assists and steals king John Stockton off the bench?! Isiah freaking Thomas with 2 recently earned rings couldn't have cracked the rotation if he had played on DT-1, thats how good the PG spot was.
BIG Edge: 92
Experience
Any idea why a Spurs team full of 30+ vets wins/contends year in year out? Experience. You can't put 2 scoring le contenders (Melo and AI) and win the 'ship; actually you can't even get out of the first round that way. '92 had 15 X MVP winners (Jordan X 5, Magic X 3, Bird X 3, Malone X 2, Robinson, Chuck), 12 X Finals MVP winners (Jordan X 6, Bird X 3, Magic X 3), All NBA first-teamers (everyone except Laettner), All-NBA defensive first-teamers, All-time assist leader (Stockton), All-time steals leader (Stockton), 2nd and 3rd in all-time scoring (Malone and MJ), 2 of the top 5 triple double leaders (Magic and Bird), 11 scoring les (Jordan X 10, DRob).
While Bron, Melo and Howard may go on to accomplish some or many of these, a sure thing is much more bankable than a maybe.
A better conversation could be had if you included Duncan, Garnett, Bosh, McGrady, Ray Allen instead of Howard, Amare, Chandler, Prince, Redd. But then, '92 left out players such as rookie Shaq, Hakeem, Isaiah, Dominique, Rodman, Price, Kemp, KJ, Dumars, etc. So ...
Personally, I don't think it's as much of a "slam dunk" as some of you say.
Larry Bird was almost 36 and already retired. Magic was already diagnosed with HIV and was 33.
Jason Kidd is the only core player on this team well into his 30s. The others are in the meat of their primes.
The advantage in the front court is definitely with Dream Team, but I put LeBron's athleticism and strength right with Barkley and Malone if LeBron has to play some power forward.
And, as much as some people are unwilling to acquiesce to such a notion, I think Jordan and Kobe would be pretty much a wash.
So, if Kobe and Jordan are "about" a wash. The next superstars of each team are 33 year old HIV patient in Magic, a 36 year old Larry Bird who at that point admittedly had severe back problems to continue playing, and a legendary but very much undersized power forward in Charles Barkley against LeBron James who might be the best player in the league right now, Carmelo Anthony who has the quickness advantage over Bird and the height advantage over Barkley, and an older Jason Kidd.
David Robinson matching up with Dwight Howard would be fun because both are phenomenal athletic specimens. And, Stockton and Malone still in their prime would give the depth edge to the Dream Team. Although, Amare, Chauncey Billups, and Michael Redd are no slouches.
I would probably go with the original Dream Team as well, but not by a landslide.
Also, the international compe ion back in 1992 isn't what it is now, so blowing out teams by more points back then doesn't mean they were necessarily that much stronger. The original Dream Team didn't face a team even as good as the Argentina "B" team.
I really think it's closer than many of you think.
Dream team by a landslide.
I too think that it is not as much a runaway as most here think. Age is an issue the Dream Team. This will not be the Dream Team facing teams that didn't know what they were getting into and going in to the game in awe of the Dream team.
They would be facing a team with more athleticism then they had. The only "Slow" player on the current team is Kidd. The Dream Team won by running the other teams out of the arena (Drextler, Barkley, Jordan, and Pippen ran the fast break drill all game long) they did not win with half court sets.
Although the centers did have parts in the game, for those that saw the games and remember them ... It was a layup drill all game long. The other teams just didn't have the legs or talent to keep up.
In this game, it would be the current team that would run and gun and the Dream Team that would try to slow the tempo with their big men.
Ewing and Robinson may be able to work the low post, but could they outrun Amare down the court? Could Magic (He played PF at this point in his career, not PG like in his prime with Showtime) keep up with Lebron or Mello in the fast break?
This current team runs the fast break with all five players, the Dream Team only ran with their guards and SF's ... and Barkely). The Dream Team played like the current team does .... They played fast break and then if its not there, works the half court sets. Its just that back then ('92), none of the other teams had seen anything like the talent level on the Dream Team and couldn't keep up.
In the half court sets, the Dream Team had Stockton and Malone ... The very best that you can ask for. They would have the advantage in any game that slowed down into a half court set. They had several players that could be on an All-Defence team OF ALL TIME. The current team doesn't have but Maybe one (Kobe).
In a slow tempo game, the Dream team would shut down the current team. In a fast pace game, the current team would win but MY GOD, the score would be something like 145-142. This would be the only chance that the current team would have ... to use their younger legs run the older Dream Teamers into the ground. A running game would remove Magic and Bird from the game. Ewing would also have a hard time of keeping up.
Having said that, the players that the Dream Team had would force their will on the game. Jordan, Stockton and Magic ... Three of the very greatest team leaders of their age, would force the pace to slow. Stockton and Malone, Magic and Jordan ... They would play the two man game and there would be nothing that the current team could do to stop them.
Not even close. The originals by a mile...
You're right ...I am unwilling to even entertain the notion, much less acquiesce to it. Kobe isn't even close to MJ.
what the kinda question is this? im not gonna even answer it, its so stupid
I think that you would be wrong in this. We are not talking about the Bulls or Lakers, we are talking about Jordan putting up 20+ points on the Dream Team and Kobe puting up 20+ points on Team USA. They are equal on those terms, truth be told, Kobe might get more rebounds then Jordan, while Jordan would have the edge in assists.You're right ...I am unwilling to even entertain the notion, much less acquiesce to it. Kobe isn't even close to MJ.
We are talking about one game and what the final result would be ... In that, Jordan and Kobes roles in the final score would be very similar.
First of all, I think that there is an inherent flaw in associating pure athleticism with the ability to run the fast break. "More athletic" doesn't mean a thing without great passing and decision making, and that's why the original dream team was so effective at the running game. Sure, this team may have a bit in the athleticism department, but I'd give Stockton, Magic, Jordan, Bird et al the edge in passing skill over Kobe, Kidd, and Lebron, and a MAJOR edge in decision making.
Also, just looking at the matchups, I dont know how this team could field a team that wouldnt have matchup problems with the original. If they go small, the '92 squad could still play with Robinson in the post. And the 92 team could give Kobe the double whammy, using Pippen to guard him on D, while Kobe would still have to guard Jordan on the other end. That means that Jordan would be able to guard Carmelo or Lebron, and frankly I think he'd get into either of their heads. Magic was longer than Kidd. I just dont see how, regardless of what team this group put out there, the '92 team wouldnt be able to give them fits. On the other end though, the Dream Team could field a lineup of bigs to destroy them in the paint.
Ultimately, I think it would be closer than some think, but the matchups just dont work out for this gorup.
you failed to mention a 34 year old HIV positive player with 5 rings, 3 MVP's, and a 36 year old with 3 rings, 3 MVP's. Chris Mullin was lights out from anywhere on the court, Clyde the Glide was still the man in Portland, and Scottie Pippen was the , and the level of competion was better than the any era in NBA history. seeing the new crop of superstars have failed miserably (with respect to Dream Team III) to reach the bar set by the Dream Team, i'd say it's a premature to label these guys contenders with the greatest team ever assembled in anything.
Last edited by yourcheatinheart; 09-04-2007 at 10:31 PM.
Sometimes this guy has good takes when he's not busy trolling the Spurs forum
Stockton and Kidd are very close in decision making and passing ability, them both can make the long pass and the tight pass without looking. Jordan and Lebrons passing is similar in level ... Neither are "great" but they are very good. There is no big man that has ever passed better the Magic.
The Dream Team often went with this - Stockton, Jordan, Magic, Bird and Robinson (Sometimes Ewing). This team was all about execution, whith this group, every shot was an easy one. There were six passes on every possesion and not a turnover in sight. Every shot was an open shot in the half court, when this team went to the bench they would be up by 10-20 points.
This is not a "running team". Magic and Bird were well beyond their "running years". This was the "exection team"
When the Dream Team started sub-ing, The would have this on the floor - Jordan, Drexler, Pippen, Barkely and Malone
This team destroyed the oppositions second team and any thought that they may have had at making a game of it. This was the "Fastbreak team". When they sat down, the game was all but over and it was now "show time" for the fans (And opposing team)
The current team has no "execution team", its all fastbreak all the time.
just kidding...
Leadership would win the day on the Dream Team, as would defensive intensity.
And with all due respect (Magic is my favorate player of all time) Magic and Bird were not the players they once were. (Bird was three point shooter .. that was it)
Mullin hardly ever saw the court, if at all (He did play though, unlike Leattner).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
