Spurs: Rookies could be Toros teammates

[Solid D]

Web Posted: 10/16/2007 10:53 PM CDT

Jeff McDonald
San Antonio Express-News

Marcus Williams sensed his first NBA assignment to be an important one. So he made sure to write down the instructions verbatim.

One dozen chocolate doughnuts.

One dozen glazed.

And make sure they come from Krispy Kreme.

"It had to be Krispy Kreme," Williams said.

Not long upon their arrival at Spurs training camp, Williams and Ian Mahinmi — the team's two 20-year-old rookies — were charged with the traditional task of supplying the veterans their daily bread.

"It's like an unsaid rule," said Williams, a second-round pick from Arizona. "If you do what you're supposed to, you get the perks."



For the Spurs' rookies, those perks aren't likely to include a full-time NBA gig. At least not yet.

Through two weeks of their first NBA camp, Williams and Mahinmi have alternately impressed and frustrated. They have shown flashes of professional competence — and flashes of why they probably won't be seeing much time in an NBA uniform this season.

By November, both players are likely to find themselves ticketed for the Austin Toros, the Spurs' newly purchased affiliate in the NBA Development League.

The Spurs haven't made any formal decisions about either rookie. Then again, there isn't much of a decision to make.

It's a simple matter of mathematics.

The Spurs are already overloaded with guaranteed contracts. They returned a dozen players from last year's NBA championship squad and added another semi-prized free agent, swingman Ime Udoka, in the offseason.

Only 12 of those 13 players can be designated as active for any given game once the regular season starts.

There isn't much room for a rookie.

How much longer Mahinmi and Williams can remain on doughnut duty remains to be seen.

The Spurs believe Mahinmi, their first-round pick in 2005, will get more out of being a player in the development league than a spectator in the NBA.

A 6-foot-11 forward from France with remarkable raw ability but little formal basketball training, Mahinmi logged less than 13 minutes per game in Europe last season. In Austin, he can glean the experience he needs, all while remaining under contract with the Spurs and continuing to immerse himself in their system.

"Ian is a lucky young man in that the Spurs are willing to put him down there and let him develop," said Mo Mahone, director of basketball development for the Toros. "The No. 1 thing he needs is to be out on the floor and play minutes. He needs to play 30 to 35 minutes a night. He'll get that in the D-League."

For now, Mahinmi is unconcerned with where he will be plying his trade next season, so long as he is plying it somewhere.

"We haven't talked a lot about where I will be in a month," Mahinmi said. "I just want to keep getting better every day."

Williams, a 6-foot-7 swingman, faces a future even more uncertain. Unlike Mahinmi, Williams' contract is not guaranteed — and neither is his roster spot.

With the Spurs overstocked on the wing and lacking healthy bodies at point guard, they could opt to waive Williams to keep their final roster spot flexible. If that happens, Williams might still wind up in Austin — but as the property of the Toros and not the Spurs.

There, he would be auditioning for other NBA teams.

Like Mahinmi, Williams says he hasn't given much thought to ending up a Toro.

"If that happens," he said, "I'll just have to fight to get back up here."

Krispy Kreme could use the business.



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[timvp]

Williams, a 6-foot-7 swingman, faces a future even more uncertain. Unlike Mahinmi, Williams' contract is not guaranteed — and neither is his roster spot.

With the Spurs overstocked on the wing and lacking healthy bodies at point guard, they could opt to waive Williams to keep their final roster spot flexible. If that happens, Williams might still wind up in Austin — but as the property of the Toros and not the Spurs.

I knew Williams signed that tender non-guaranteed contract. Spurs wanted him to go to Europe, he refused, signed the automatic tender and here we are.

timvp impresses himself sometimes.

[Solid D]

timvp impresses himself sometimes.

[whottt]

added another semi-prized free agent, swingman Ime Udoka, in the offseason.

whottt impresses himself sometimes too..

[whottt]

With the Spurs overstocked on the wing and lacking healthy bodies at point guard, they could opt to waive Williams to keep their final roster spot flexible. If that happens, Williams might still wind up in Austin — but as the property of the Toros and not the Spurs.

There, he would be auditioning for other NBA teams.

ChumpDumper your thoughts?


Do they mean via the d-league draft?


And this begs another question...would they draft exactly who the Spurs want them to draft? Or do they have a little autonomy on that issue?

[timvp]

Seriously though, Williams sucks. Ugly shot. Not a fluid athlete. Can't finish at the rim. Not a ballhandler. Overrated defender.

His positives are he has a decent at ude, pretty good rebounder and wants to be a good defender. That usually isn't enough positives to make an NBA team but Williams might make it because the rest of the guys the Spurs brought to training camp pretty much suck.

I'm pretty certain if the Air Force let Nwaelele come to the Spurs, Nwaelele would have beaten out Williams.

[whottt]

BTW, I've got to give McDonald some props.....

He may be new, but it seems like he produces a lot more content than Ludden...

[timvp]

And this begs another question...would they draft exactly who the Spurs want them to draft? Or do they have a little autonomy on that issue?

That's RC in the back.

[whottt]

If I didn't know better I'd say you made that gif just to respond to my question...



So the Toros don't even get to draft guys that might actually help them have a successful season? It's always going to be development for the entire Toros roster?


They aren't going to sell the Toros to Austin with that philosophy...

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure Mo McHone is going to do the heavy lifting in the draft for the Toros, and if he has done so in the past for Sioux Falls, Austin has little to worry about.

Williams would be available to any D-League team in the draft as the Spurs would have to waive all their rights to him if they cut him from training camp. Were he to be picked by the Toros, he could still be called up by any other NBA team if he got to that level.

[mystargtr34]

Seriously though, Williams sucks. Ugly shot. Not a fluid athlete. Can't finish at the rim. Not a ballhandler. Overrated defender.

His positives are he has a decent at ude, pretty good rebounder and wants to be a good defender. That usually isn't enough positives to make an NBA team but Williams might make it because the rest of the guys the Spurs brought to training camp pretty much suck.

I'm pretty certain if the Air Force let Nwaelele come to the Spurs, Nwaelele would have beaten out Williams.

Thank god your not our GM, otherwise we would have waived Tim Duncan in 97 and signed Ostertag to a multi year deal.

[timvp]

Thank god your not our GM, otherwise we would have waived Tim Duncan in 97 and signed Ostertag to a multi year deal.

That was pretty random.

Marcus Williams = Tim Duncan?

[mystargtr34]

No Marcus Williams > Tim Duncan

Nah im just saying, Duncan 'struggled' in his first summer league as a 4 year collegiate, obviously no where near to the extent of Marcus but the kids 20 years old, yeh hes pretty much stunk it up since hes been here but im not about to give up on him.

[Bruno]

If Spurs waive Williams at the end of the training camp, it will be a huge failure of Spurs FO.

First, it will be a huge scouting mistake. Spurs have chosen Williams with the 33rd pick that is to say over tons of quite good players. 4 months later, they won't keep him while he is cheap and Spurs have to chose between him and nothing.

Second, it will too be a failure of the way Spurs handle the draft. Williams is a long term prospect (college sop re with a jumpshot to build). He has underachieved this summer but Spurs must too be patient with that kind of raw players. If Spurs wanted to judge the drafted player after 4 months, they should have drafted a college senior or drafted a foreigner and let him overseas for years.

If Spurs waived Williams, it will bite them in the ass way more than the Scola trade.

[Solid D]

There are not too many players selected after Marcus that have stood out, although it's difficult to know at this point who will develop into a good NBA player. Now if the Spurs had pulled in Azubuike from the D-League instead of Golden State, then this place would be buzzing about now.

Through 10/16/07 Preseason stats

33. Marcus Williams, Forward, Arizona, SA Spurs (2.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 14.5 mpg)
34. Nick Fazekas, Forward, Nevada, Dallas Mavericks (7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 16.3 mpg)
35. Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Forward, LSU, Boston Celtics (from Seattle) (3 ppg, 1 rpg, 4 mpg)
36. Jermareo Davidson, Forward, Alabama, Charlotte Bobcats (from GS) (9.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 18.8 mpg)
37. Josh McRoberts, Forward, Duke, Portland Trail Blazers (injured - left ankle sprain)
38. Kyrylo Fesenko, Center, Ukraine, Utah Jazz (from Phila.) (4.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 13.8 mpg)
39. Stanko Barac, Center, Bosnia, Indiana Pacers (from Miami) (signed 5-yr. deal with Tau Ceramica)
40. Sun Yue, Guard, China, Los Angeles Lakers (will spend another yr. w/ Beijing Aoshen)
41. Chris Richard, Forward, Florida, Minnesota Timberwolves (2 ppg, 4 rpg, 13 mpg)
42. Derrick Byars, Guard/Forward, Vanderbilt, Philadelphia 76ers (from Portland) (2 ppg, 2 rpg, 14 mpg)
43. Adam Haluska, Guard, Iowa, New Orleans Hornets (16 ppg, 1 rpg, 21 mpg)
44. Reyshawn Terry, Forward, North Carolina, Dallas Mavericks (from Orlando) (encouraged by Donnie to play in Europe for a yr., signed with Aris TT Bank, Greece)
45. Jared Jordan, Guard, Marist, Los Angeles Clippers (recently traded to Knicks, 2 ppg, .5 apg, 4.5 mpg)
46. Stephane Lasme, Forward, Massachusetts, Golden State Warriors (6 ppg, 3 rpg, 11 mpg)
47. Dominic McGuire, Forward, Fresno State, Washington Wizards (4.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 22.8 mpg)
48. Marc Gasol, Center, Spain, Los Angeles Lakers (will play again for Girona)
49. Aaron Gray, Center, Pittsburgh, Chicago Bulls (10 ppg, 6 rpg, 18.3 mpg)
50. Renaldas Seibutis, Guard, Lithuania, Dallas Mavericks (Donnie says develop overseas, young pup, signed 3-year contract at Olympiacos)
51. JamesOn Curry, Guard, Oklahoma State, Chicago Bulls (5 ppg, 3 apg, 22 mpg)
52. Taurean Green, Guard, Florida, Portland Trail Blazers (9.3 ppg, 3.3 apg, 18.7 mpg)
53. Demetris Nichols, Forward, Syracuse, New York Knicks (from Portland) (2.5 ppg, 1 rpg, 7 mpg)
54. Brad Newley, Guard, Australia, Houston Rockets (signed with Panionos in Greece)
55. Herbert Hill, Forward/Center, Providence, Philadelphia 76ers (from Utah) (3.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 11.3 mpg)
56. Ramon Sessions, Guard, Nevada, Milwaukee Bucks (0.5 ppg, 2 apg, 6.5 mpg)
57. Sammy Mejia, Guard, DePaul, Detroit Pistons (0.5 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 7.5 mpg)
58. Giorgos Printezis, Forward, Greece, Toronto (from San Antonio) (will play for Olympiacos Reds this season)
59. D.J. Strawberry, Guard, Maryland, Phoenix Suns (6.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 19.3 mpg)
60. Milovan Rakovic, Forward, Serbia, Orlando Magic (from Dallas) (playing for Spartak, Russian A)

[whottt]

His rebounding is pretty standout.

[SenorSpur]

If Spurs waive Williams at the end of the training camp, it will be a huge failure of Spurs FO.

First, it will be a huge scouting mistake. Spurs have chosen Williams with the 33rd pick that is to say over tons of quite good players. 4 months later, they won't keep him while he is cheap and Spurs have to chose between him and nothing.

Second, it will too be a failure of the way Spurs handle the draft. Williams is a long term prospect (college sop re with a jumpshot to build). He has underachieved this summer but Spurs must too be patient with that kind of raw players. If Spurs wanted to judge the drafted player after 4 months, they should have drafted a college senior or drafted a foreigner and let him overseas for years.

If Spurs waived Williams, it will bite them in the ass way more than the Scola trade.

Couldn't agree more.

It's impossible to know what the Spurs have in Williams at this point because he's not yet a finished product. If he was expected to step in and contribute now, that would be one thing. Even if he was NBA-ready, he wouldn't earn any minutes ahead of the glut of veteran swingmen on this roster.

What is the freaking hurry? The Spurs need to invest time into the development of Williams. Give him time and structure in which he can develop. To give up on him this early would be a travesty - not to mention another year wasted on a player with nothing to show for it (i.e. James White).

[Solid D]

Marcus was probably worth a shot at R2,#33, considering the others that were available. I liked Fazekas' offensive abilities (not a good defender, though) and I liked McRoberts upside but since the Spurs took Splitter in the 1st round and didn't need another Big, there were slim pickings at 33. After having watched Splitter perform against NBA players this summer, he's changed my mind and I'm very happy the Spurs drafted him in the 1st round. He's most certainly moved up from "Mr. Potential" to someone who can come in and contribute next season. Tiago's got basketball A.D.D. but he's still a good player who will compliment the Spurs' team defensive scheme.

Marcus has a long way to go but he could have done himself a favor by going to Europe to play...although he needs so much work on his jumpshot form, maybe he's better off getting the basics down from Chip as much as possible now.

[wildbill2u]

There are not too many players selected after Marcus that have stood out, although it's difficult to know at this point who will develop into a good NBA player. Now if the Spurs had pulled in Azubuike from the D-League instead of Golden State, then this place would be buzzing about now.

Through 10/16/07 Preseason stats

33. Marcus Williams, Forward, Arizona, SA Spurs (2.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 14.5 mpg)
34. Nick Fazekas, Forward, Nevada, Dallas Mavericks (7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 16.3 mpg)
35. Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Forward, LSU, Boston Celtics (from Seattle) (3 ppg, 1 rpg, 4 mpg)
36. Jermareo Davidson, Forward, Alabama, Charlotte Bobcats (from GS) (9.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 18.8 mpg)
37. Josh McRoberts, Forward, Duke, Portland Trail Blazers (injured - left ankle sprain)
38. Kyrylo Fesenko, Center, Ukraine, Utah Jazz (from Phila.) (4.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 13.8 mpg)
39. Stanko Barac, Center, Bosnia, Indiana Pacers (from Miami) (signed 5-yr. deal with Tau Ceramica)
40. Sun Yue, Guard, China, Los Angeles Lakers (will spend another yr. w/ Beijing Aoshen)
41. Chris Richard, Forward, Florida, Minnesota Timberwolves (2 ppg, 4 rpg, 13 mpg)
42. Derrick Byars, Guard/Forward, Vanderbilt, Philadelphia 76ers (from Portland) (2 ppg, 2 rpg, 14 mpg)
43. Adam Haluska, Guard, Iowa, New Orleans Hornets (16 ppg, 1 rpg, 21 mpg)
44. Reyshawn Terry, Forward, North Carolina, Dallas Mavericks (from Orlando) (encouraged by Donnie to play in Europe for a yr., signed with Aris TT Bank, Greece)
45. Jared Jordan, Guard, Marist, Los Angeles Clippers (recently traded to Knicks, 2 ppg, .5 apg, 4.5 mpg)
46. Stephane Lasme, Forward, Massachusetts, Golden State Warriors (6 ppg, 3 rpg, 11 mpg)
47. Dominic McGuire, Forward, Fresno State, Washington Wizards (4.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 22.8 mpg)
48. Marc Gasol, Center, Spain, Los Angeles Lakers (will play again for Girona)
49. Aaron Gray, Center, Pittsburgh, Chicago Bulls (10 ppg, 6 rpg, 18.3 mpg)
50. Renaldas Seibutis, Guard, Lithuania, Dallas Mavericks (Donnie says develop overseas, young pup, signed 3-year contract at Olympiacos)
51. JamesOn Curry, Guard, Oklahoma State, Chicago Bulls (5 ppg, 3 apg, 22 mpg)
52. Taurean Green, Guard, Florida, Portland Trail Blazers (9.3 ppg, 3.3 apg, 18.7 mpg)
53. Demetris Nichols, Forward, Syracuse, New York Knicks (from Portland) (2.5 ppg, 1 rpg, 7 mpg)
54. Brad Newley, Guard, Australia, Houston Rockets (signed with Panionos in Greece)
55. Herbert Hill, Forward/Center, Providence, Philadelphia 76ers (from Utah) (3.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 11.3 mpg)
56. Ramon Sessions, Guard, Nevada, Milwaukee Bucks (0.5 ppg, 2 apg, 6.5 mpg)
57. Sammy Mejia, Guard, DePaul, Detroit Pistons (0.5 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 7.5 mpg)
58. Giorgos Printezis, Forward, Greece, Toronto (from San Antonio) (will play for Olympiacos Reds this season)
59. D.J. Strawberry, Guard, Maryland, Phoenix Suns (6.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 19.3 mpg)
60. Milovan Rakovic, Forward, Serbia, Orlando Magic (from Dallas) (playing for Spartak, Russian A)

Actually, if you compare him against the players most of us wanted in the draft (McGuire, Terry, Byars, Nichols, etc) he's not doing too badly in comparison stats.

[ShoogarBear]

49. Aaron Gray, Center, Pittsburgh, Chicago Bulls (10 ppg, 6 rpg, 18.3 mpg)

I haven't been paying too much attention to the preseason of other teams, but I have to say that one shocks me.

[polandprzem]

Thx whottt for answering to my PM


Is Marvin realy worth disscussing?
The latests spurs prospects were bad.
Now we can only wait for Mainhimi but all in all if he would have it he would have it now. I do not see him as a starter in championship team with TD and MG declining

[SenorSpur]

The fact that the Spurs chose Williams tells me they saw something in him. It be hard for me to believe that they've now determined that he's not worth the investment. If that is the case, it would tell me something about their ability to evaluate, draft and develop domestic players.

Speaking of which, here's a good trivia question. Who is the last American born player the Spurs have drafted and developed? Beats me.

Back to Williams, if they didn't like the kid, why did they take him in the first place? If this kid does bomb, this will be their second consecutive failed attempt to develop a player at this spot. The 2-3 spot will be a critical spot for this team going forward. The acquisition of Udoka was a good one for a stop-gap relief for Bowen. However at some point, they MUST start developing a young swingman - sooner than later.

[picnroll]

Spurs draft picks playing n Europe hasn't worked out to well of late. Mahinmi and Sankidze both collecte a lot of splinters. Williams is better off in the states.

[ChumpDumper]

Ian and Marcus are precisely why the Spurs bought the Toros. Unless there is someone who seems to have more upside cut from another camp in the next two weeks (who will also be sent to Austin) or some trade leaves us with a need for a veteran swingman, there's really no reason to even think about waiving Williams until January.

[SenorSpur]

"Then stick them in the oven and let them cook"