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3 is either totally off base or worded wrong based on the second paragraph.
Last year during the regular season when the Spurs were struggling, rebounding was perhaps the biggest culprit. The team just couldn't rebound as well as other Spurs teams had rebounded.
When the playoffs came around, the Spurs turned it around and actually rebounded really well in the playoffs. Denver is a good rebounding team and the Spurs were right there with them on the boards. Utah is a very good rebounding team and the Spurs didn't allow the Jazz to exploit that advantage. Cleveland was, IIRC, the best rebounding team last year and the Spurs easily handled them on the boards.
That job of rebounding (no pun intended) in the playoffs made all of Spurs Nation forget about the rebounding trouble the Spurs had all last year in the regular season. The problem originally surfaced against the Kings in the 2006 playoffs and then got worse against the Mavs in the next round.
Tonight, the Rockets reminded us that the Spurs can be beaten strictly due to not being able to grab a board. My question is whether the Spurs actually have a rebounding problem.
The possible answers I can think of are:
1) The Spurs only struggle rebounding when they aren't giving their full effort. In the playoffs the effort level changes and the Spurs suddenly can rebound with anyone.
2) The Spurs struggle dealing with perimeter players who can rebound. Players like Bonzi Wells and Josh Howard can torture the Spurs on the boards because none of the Spurs' swingmen are that great of rebounders. Against teams that rebound mostly with their bigmen, the Spurs are fine.
3) The Spurs are a poor rebounding team. Last playoffs, the Spurs were lucky they didn't face a team that could take advantage of that weakness.
4) This Rockets game was a fluke. I expect the Spurs to rebound like they did in the playoffs last year.
I'm not sure which answer I believe at the moment.
Opinions?
3 is either totally off base or worded wrong based on the second paragraph.
Udoka is a good rebounder for his size but right now he won't get that much playing time
Well, if the Spurs were just much more talented than the Nuggets, Jazz and Cavs, their rebounding propensity wouldn't really come into play. One could argue that the only great team the Spurs played in the playoffs last year were the Suns ... and the Suns are a horrible rebounding team.
If the Spurs face a great team in the playoffs that can rebound, would rebounding again show itself as being a weakness of this Spurs team?
that cleared it up quite well. we'll just have to hope the spurs peak at the right time again.
We are a mediocre rebounding team. During the playoffs we did rebound better.
The good rebounding perimeter players we faced were Marion and Lebron; both are SF, which maybe makes it easier on us because we have bruce to help out on boxing them out.
But, if the other team has a sg who can really rebound, like Bonzi, then it looks like they wreak havok. I'm not sure we really have an answer to that, other than Udoka or hoping our bigs make up for it.
Bowen is below average in rebounding. Manu has great rebounding games on occasion, but is not even a good rebounder usually. Similarly Parker.
Duncan is great but he can't do it all himself.
Yeah, rebounding for this team is something to really think about. Part of the team d is to bet back on transition, which means you miss out on some offensive rebounding. Well, we need to do a better job on the defensive rebounding then, because otherwise the other team is getting 10+ more shots than us...
Rebounding is about effort and positioning, both of which the Spurs left in SA tonight. No secret why they got bombed on the boards, just like game 3 in Utah last year. If you fail to show up then pretty much every stat is going to look bad.
timvp, I think it's mostly #1. Seriously, I remember last year Utah did a similar number on us, just beat us up early in the year.
Two things for sure that are "mostly" effort in basketball: rebounding and defense.
Yeah, there is some technique and stuff, but those two things are mostly effort. Who wants it more badly, etc.
Depending what word you want to use, we are "experienced", "a veteran team", "old farts"... either way, we know that if we try to lead the league from begining to end in something like defense and rebounding, we will have half our team on the injured list, hobbling with nagging injuries or just physically drained by the playoffs. Mavs last year = Exhibit A.
We need to pace ourselved because the one thing for sure we know that can derail us really fast from repeating is a hobbling team. And let's face it, once you reach a certain age (which a lot of our guys have) the probability of injury begins to rise. Counter that with pacing yourself by using your depth and not killing yourself for rebounds before Thanksgiving and you give yourself a chance of being healthy when it matters.
#2, more or less.
2. Bonzi was everywhere. Nobody was near the guy, Duncan was busy covering Yao, and he was just all over the place.
Weren't Cavs a great rebounding team? They didn't take advantage of that, timvp's right.
I'd go with 1. Looking at tonights game, there were lots of boards that were with in arms reach. Only there was no reaching. It was just one of those nights were the ball just bounced the Rockets way all night.
We just don't have the athlets on wings to rebound.
Gino, Bruce, Tony, Barry - where is the strenght?
Simple about the playoffs - the rebound were the attention what their doing and, well if they can turn around in this year playoffs that will be goog but you never know.
Too early to say.
So I think there is a bit of every point that timvp put here.
I'd say #2, with a smattering of bounce of the ball. As you point out, Bonzi and J Ho regularly do us like this, but few other players or teams do (how about Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace, for eg?).
There isn't one good rebounder amongst our smalls, except Manu when he decides to be (like last playoffs when he averaged over 5 boards a game and I remember stretches where he'd pull down 3 or 4 in a couple of minutes and change the game).
Was it also an artefact of the defence we were playing (double-teaming leads to open men on the O boards)?
Anyway, we need to find a solution for it just in case we meet these guys in the playoffs, but I'm not too worried by it unless it becomes a pattern.
(Just to be picky, is Bonzi really a 2? I think he's a 3, T-Mac is the 2, and Head is his backup.)
Timmy hitting more shots would help the cause.
1 & 2.... I sense that Udoka is a pretty good rebouner. Hopefully his PT will increase as the season goes on.
I think its #2...
The Spurs DO read scouting reports. They know which players on opposing teams have a penchant for rebounding. For the Rockets that would be Hayes, Wells, Yao, among others.
Rebounding is more about positioning, effort, and desire. One of the big problems I see is the lack of rebounding fundamentals - particularly from the wings.
I rarely see a Spur player actually seek out an opposing player and put a body on him when a shot goes up. This isn't an issue that just cropped up against Houston last night. This has been an issue with the Spurs for a couple of seasons now. They've simply managed to overcome it in other areas.
Udoka is supposed to be decent rebounder for his position. I did see him routinely work his way to the glass in his short stint on the floor. I was diappointed that Pop didn't give him more time.
The Spurs are never going to be a good offensive rebounding team because their defensive philosophy dictates them getting back to stop transition opportunities. The bottom line is the bigs and the wings MUST exert more effort on the defensive glass. There's no excuse in allowing the opposition so many offensive rebounds. They need to concentrate on limiting opponents to one shot only.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 11-07-2007 at 09:46 AM.
Or something like that. chalk it up to a bad game on the boards on our part
Last edited by rasho8; 11-07-2007 at 08:51 AM.
scola did against spurs last night
Did he?
I did not watched the game?
Is he gonna be suspended?
I did watch Bonzi last night. He was always about 4-5 feet away from the bucket. He played like Dennis Rodman last night. He was watching the ball for rebounds just like Rodman used to do. Although Bonzi isn't as tall as Rodman, his positioning for rebounding was excellant.
for me it's the first choice !
i remember this subject coming back regularly last season, and especially after all star break ...
but it is always the same....
as stated before, rebounding is effort and desire mainly. Playoffs times will as usual offer a major change in the mentality of our team...
ah, the long regular season...
xap'
Now I didn't see last nights game but these are just some general comments.
Rebounding has for a long time been the big elephant in the room that no-one talks about. Tell me, when the Spurs match-up against a strong post team, who on the Spurs is a good rebounder, outside of TD?
I've been concerned about Houston for two years because for the past two years Houston has gotten bigger with Battier, and better at rebounding, with Bonzi Wells.
Those two players don't concern me by themselves but on the Rockets, they play directly into one of the Spurs' biggest weaknesses.
The Spurs in that time lost Rasho, our best Yao defender and 2nd best rebounder, and Nazr (no big deal). Now I imagine, TD has to guard Yao (until Mahinmi can, maybe next year), or Elson (ugh) or Oberto (too slow).
I imagine Oberto can use his "smarts" to out-position Yao but there's NO WAY he can out jump him for a board.
It is my belief that we lost to the mavs in 06 mainly because of rebounding.
Bottom line = Houston does not = elite team in the West but they will ALWAYS out rebound the Spurs. The Spurs can only get away with that by nailing 3 after 3 after 3. If the outside shot isn't falling, watch out.
I think Houston is 2nd tier because of consistency, health, and team-play. But they will always be a danger if they can put it together.
This.
Hopefully Udoka can ameliorate the problem, but there's no ignoring how Howard and Bonzi in 06 destroyed us. Fortunately Sacto was weak other than Wells that year, but of course Dallas knocked us off.
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