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I agree. Even in victory, the Suns should be very worried.
IMO this game tonight, if I'm a SUns fan, raises ALOT of red flags.
First the obvious, Tim Duncan is back to putting re ulas numbers on the Suns and he did that missing alot of point blank shots he 99% of the time always makes.
The interior defense of the Suns is about as soft as butter in a 500 degree oven. When the Spurs were agressive they took the Suns to the hole at will and got whatever they wanted. THe Suns are back to 05 level defense, and theres no Kurt Thomas to bail em out.
Grant Hill is a nice addition, but IMO hes not gonna bag turn around shots all night like he did tonight and ESPECIALLY if TOny Parker is in the lineup and Bowen slides over to him. Hope you liked some of the shots tonight Grant, you wont see em again against a healthy Spurs team.
I loved Jacque Vaughn's play tonight. He did as told, gave up the ball to Barry or Manu and got out of the way. His jumper looked fluid and spectacular, and the Suns did nothing to adjust. The comeback to that is "Thats who you want shooting it" True, but if the guy bags the first 3 shots of a quarter to tie the game, think a hand in the face might be warranted?
Amare Stoudamire while he looked solid, was a practical no show. HIs defense as always was horrid, but the Spurs denied him the ball VERY easily. I couldn't believe when the Suns would run a play for him he was so passive to not giving a shot. Props to Duncan but dude, WTF?
If Tony Parker plays the game tonight, this is a DECIDEDLY different outcome.
There were countless times tonight where Barbosa got baskets that he didn't even SNIFF in the playoffs last year. Barbosa is usually guarded by Parker and Parker shuts him down. Evidence Spurs v Suns game 6 last year.
All that being said, the Suns scare me MUCH less this year than last. Skinner while decent on defense, is NO Kurt Thomas. Grant Hill does add a little punch but he trails every single Suns fastbreak and that will kill the Suns when guys like Bowen or Ginobili are allowed to slide over to him.
All in all lots of silver linings.
Keep shooting Bruce
I agree. Even in victory, the Suns should be very worried.
tough to come away overly impressed with the Suns.
they had better hope that Nash and Amare are just coasting, because if they play like that in the playoffs, it will be the first Spurs 'sweep' of the Suns.
no parker, manu's still in a funk, SAS shot 20% from 3 - most of them open, had multiple chances to either get a rebound or a score to win it in the final minute, and the Suns had a 2:1 FT advantage (was this game in Phoenix??????)
if PHX banks on those things happening in the summer, they're building their foundation out of sand.
The biggest key for Phoenix to beat SA in a series is this:
Stop Tim Duncan
until then, I am not worried
props to skinner, but I don't think he's nearly as good as Kurt Thomas.
Well, if they (Suns) get back to feeding Amare consistently, I'm far from worried. Skinner will suffice if given minutes. (good minutes)
Skinner had a couple of plays where he gave Tim problems - and he's an upgrade over Amare (who isn't).
But unlike Kurt Thomas, he let Tim get low position time and time again. More often than not, that'll = 2 points or a trip to the line.
Amare is impressive no doubt, but he is gonna be more vulnerable than ever defensively because he doesn't have KT to save his ass from foul trouble.
funny thing about Skinner is that he had a +/- of -6 tonight
Of course, there's red flags in every game, and silver linings in every game. But here's what I see that gives me hope:
1. Even with all of the mistakes and errors that you point out, the Suns still won -- so that tells you that those mistakes aren't enough to put the Suns out of the game. If the Suns had played flawlessly and squeaked a win, that would be cause for concern.
2. TP didn't play, so maybe that's a difference maker -- but as you point out, Vaughn had a great game tonight, so maybe that cancels it a bit (or maybe not, it's always hard to predict how a missing player might have impacted a game).
3. I'm not sure how much press it's gotten outside of Phoenix, but Nash has been playing with an injured shoulder for a couple weeks now. It mostly seems to impact his shooting, which is why his assists are up and his scoring down. I agree Nash needs to pick it up, but I see no reason to think that he won't come playoff time.
4. Grant Hill is something new to the mix, and makes an impact against the Spurs. How will Bowen guard him if he's got Nash? Maybe Manu takes him, but how tall is Manu? Hill is 6'8" -- just barely shorter than Amare is.
5. The biggest ground for hope is that I don't think anyone in the Suns thinks tonight was anything other than a good win. Contrary to years past around here (Phoenix), all the talk this year has been worrying and complaining that the Suns are just racking up wins without really gutting out improvements where it matters. Whatever else you can say, I don't see this year's team as complacent about anything.
But I sure hope the Spurs disagree with me and agree with you, that they have nothing to worry about this year from the Suns. I want the Suns to stay hungry, and the Spurs to stay pleased with themselves.
One thing the Spurs did tonight against the Suns that was smart, and that I would think other teams would think to do: routinely contest the inbounds pass on a made basket. All you need to set up properly on defense is a second or two head start, and contesting the inbounds gives you that, so why don't other teams do it? Instead of scrambling like mad to get back (or in addition to it), just stand somebody under the basket to contest the inbounds pass.
Do you think the Spurs are a good team overall?
Vaughn replaced some of Parker's direct production, but the Suns never gave him the respect that Parker commands that opens up things for teammates.
They were perfectly happy letting him chuck 16 footers and worrying about everybody else.
Suns fan thinking Vaughn replaced Parker well is prob the funniest thing since
"Its a stupid rule"
It would make a difference...or at least, the look the Spurs give the Suns would be very different from the one they saw tonight. Vaughn is no threat to lead a fast break or slash to the basket. Further, defensively, Parker would probably take Nash and Bowen would shift to Hill or Marion. While Parker is not Bowen on defense, he IS faster and can stay in front of Nash. When you consider that even Bowen was able to stay in front of Nash last night, I have no doubts about Parker's ability to do so.
Parker takes Nash, Bowen takes Hill. And Manu is 6'6"...it's not like he's trying to guard Kevin Garnett...
Actually, the Spurs tended to have higher FT numbers in Phoenix during the Semis last year... the Suns had a high FT margin in Game 4 last year.
1. If Parker played, then Duncan wouldn't have gotten as many touches.
2. It's time for D'Antoni to stop with this Amare defending Duncan routine... he got some lucky no-calls out there and still ended up with 5 fouls. Leave Skinner in there to try him 1-on-1 and then double down as needed, leaving Amare and Marion to protect the glass. It worked out tonight, but won't work in the POs.
Emo thread
vaughn replaced parker's production? he never pressured the suns defense to begin with. all he had were jumpshots.2. TP didn't play, so maybe that's a difference maker -- but as you point out, Vaughn had a great game tonight, so maybe that cancels it a bit (or maybe not, it's always hard to predict how a missing player might have impacted a game).
vaughn never drove to the basket, never got to the line and never forced the defense to collapse on him leaving the shooters open. those are the things tony parker gives to the spurs.
d'antoni was right to let vaughn camp outside happily chucking away with jumpers. jacques has never been accused of being a great shooter.
I agree as well...ESPN also agreed. I hope the Mavs can beat them, as long as we bring our defense.IMO this game tonight, if I'm a SUns fan, raises ALOT of red flags.
First the obvious, Tim Duncan is back to putting re ulas numbers on the Suns and he did that missing alot of point blank shots he 99% of the time always makes.
The interior defense of the Suns is about as soft as butter in a 500 degree oven. When the Spurs were agressive they took the Suns to the hole at will and got whatever they wanted. THe Suns are back to 05 level defense, and theres no Kurt Thomas to bail em out.
Grant Hill is a nice addition, but IMO hes not gonna bag turn around shots all night like he did tonight and ESPECIALLY if TOny Parker is in the lineup and Bowen slides over to him. Hope you liked some of the shots tonight Grant, you wont see em again against a healthy Spurs team.
I loved Jacque Vaughn's play tonight. He did as told, gave up the ball to Barry or Manu and got out of the way. His jumper looked fluid and spectacular, and the Suns did nothing to adjust. The comeback to that is "Thats who you want shooting it" True, but if the guy bags the first 3 shots of a quarter to tie the game, think a hand in the face might be warranted?
Amare Stoudamire while he looked solid, was a practical no show. HIs defense as always was horrid, but the Spurs denied him the ball VERY easily. I couldn't believe when the Suns would run a play for him he was so passive to not giving a shot. Props to Duncan but dude, WTF?
If Tony Parker plays the game tonight, this is a DECIDEDLY different outcome.
There were countless times tonight where Barbosa got baskets that he didn't even SNIFF in the playoffs last year. Barbosa is usually guarded by Parker and Parker shuts him down. Evidence Spurs v Suns game 6 last year.
All that being said, the Suns scare me MUCH less this year than last. Skinner while decent on defense, is NO Kurt Thomas. Grant Hill does add a little punch but he trails every single Suns fastbreak and that will kill the Suns when guys like Bowen or Ginobili are allowed to slide over to him.
All in all lots of silver linings.
Keep shooting Bruce
brandon bass could prove pivotal in the mavs matchup against the suns. well, since bass was enlisted to take advantage of the warriors' relatively weak interior defense, i guess it should work on the suns, too.
I was really suprised to see what little defense the suns showed last year, totaly disapear this year.
This is the 05 Suns all over again. I, unfortunately dont see a long play off run with this type of squad.
like many others have pointed out, stick TP back in there and the floor opens up tremendously, and this is a whole new ball game. The suns are a fantastic scoring team, i just dont think it translates into a ring.
Nash has a gimped shoulder at present and is only playing at about 50%. Even injured he's still better than most PG's in the league but a pale comparison to his usual self. Suns played pretty poorly overall, still managed to eek out the win. With the addition of Hill and Skinner filling KT's shoes I'm feeling very good about our chances come playoff time.
Last edited by Gordionot; 12-18-2007 at 11:47 AM.
Whats amazing is that even though the Suns' defense is like butter in a 500 degree oven, the Spurs still only managed to score 95 points against it.
What does that make the Spurs offense?
The Suns held the Spurs to a lower shooting percentage.
What does that make the Spurs defense?
Also, Bell and Barbosa missed a lot of WIDE OPEN threes that they normally make. How does San Antonio hope to compete when their shots are falling?
This is just one game, but its obvious the Suns have MUCH more talent than the Spurs.
Now they just got to make sure they're firing on all cylinders come playoff time. If that happens, no one has a chance.
grant hill will be exposed in a playoff series...loggin those minutes early in the season is going to loom in the playoffs...
this makes the spurs offense down 1 20+ ppg player and the other in a slump...are you seriously that ignorant?What does that make the Spurs offense?
with 1 person playing consistent offense, and our defense failing for the majority of the game, you guys squeaked out a win.
like i said, congratulations, but your defense is non existant...with TP spacing the floor, this game isnt even close.
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