Game Thoughts: Toros vs. 66ers Dec. 28

[ChumpDumper]

Holy crap!

I expected at least some kind of letdown with three of the Toros four best players missing, but they came out and simply dismantled the 66ers methodically and decisively. For Tulsa, this is the kind of loss that could get a coach fired. They have far too much talent -- fully half the roster consists of players who currently are or have been in the NBA -- to take this severe a beating. For the Toros on the other hand, the win was a testament to the sheer depth of the roster and the strength of the system they pretty much all have bought into.

- Squeaky Johnson played just one minute Friday, but got the start on Saturday night putting up 10 points, 15 assists and 6 rebounds. Even more impressively, Ramon Sessions was held to just 13 points on 4-15 shooting due in no small part to the much smaller Toros guard staying in front of him and directing him towards the defensive help. Cheyne Gadson added another 8 assists, so the point guard situation looks pretty good right now from that angle. Hopefully they can be counted on to score a little more consistently with their roles increased.

- Ian dominated once more. Tulsa just doesn't have anyone to match him. His defensive rebounding numbers are a little inflated compared to what it might have been against stronger compe ion because the 66ers often had better position than Ian only to see him jump and reach over them. He does seem to be doing a better job of anticipating the boards though -- baby steps. He didn't get his second foul until the fourth quarter and none after that. His discipline in staying rooted to the floor at the right time is coming along nicely, and he was able to get four blocks by going for them at the right time -- a couple of them were the demoralizing, knock-it-out-of-the-building types we all love. The most encouraging thing I saw from him developmentally was that he hit two nice shots from 15-17 feet. More of that will help him be a better fit on the Spurs. Maybe he will be doing more of that with his new frontcourt mate:

- Kris Lang. Another LJ Ellis favorite, it seems Lang was just waiting for the Spurs to move to the top of the signing order to declare his availability to the D-League. Since he is an experienced guy with some knowledge of the system, Lang played as if he had been on the team all season, shooting 8-11 for 17 points and providing help defense with few problems or lapses. Lang probably has limited upside, but is a proven player on this level and play either the center or power forward role on offense, meaning Ian can work on both positions while the two are on the floor.

Lang's signing has made this team slightly heavy on big men, however. Since they didn't take the opportunity to sign a guard, I'm assuming the Toros are counting on one or both of Washington and Williams to rejoin the regular Toros roster. If both happen to come back, one big man will probably be let go. Eric Dawson told me he is probably a month away from playing, Kevin Pittsnogle seems to have lost his shot, which was the only thing that was justifying his playing time, and Anthony Fuqua is playing his best basketball of the season. The Toros may or may not have to lose a big man -- if they somehow keep them all and get them all playing to their potential, they will be the biggest, baddest team in the D-League.

- DerMarr Johnson led all scorers with 27. He seems to have made a conscious effort to diversify his offense the past few weeks, attacking the basket much more and settling less for the three pointer, though he was a perfect 4-4 from the arc. Seems to be in the mix more for rebounds too, which can only be a good thing. Hopefully he can keep his rebounding rate up at the level of the past two games.

- Justin Bowen continued his high energy play, this time as a starter. He had 19 points on 50% shooting, a few of them off putbacks from his usually solid offensive rebounding. He could probably stand to try more than one three pointer a game, but there isn't to much to complain about.

- Kenton Paulino made good use of his extended playing time (18 minutes after playing four minutes Friday), hitting a couple of threes, getting ten points and three steals.

I want to give coach Snyder some credit here. I got to see him work the game up close, and was pretty impressed. He's pretty intense about the game itself (the whole staff is), but not hard on the players at all. Sure, it's not really his system, but he has done a good job implementing it and keeping most of his players ready to answer the bell in the midst of myriad roster changes and wildly varying playing time. To have one's team lose three of its best players over the course of a few days and still have them focus enough to execute even better offensively and defensively is noteworthy. The Toros are looking better than ever.

PS - Thanks to the Toros staff in general and Rick Epstein in particular for accommodating my even more special than usual needs the past two games.

[whottt]

I wonder how the D-league compares to college ball...

Ian is just right now the age of a typical college Junior or Senior...he's putting up numbers that would be pretty nice even by college standards....especially if they came to the game kind of late.

I just wonder if he'd be capable of putting up those sorts of numbers against college comp and what kind of talent he'd be projecting as then....

He's obviously clicking on cylinders right now and it's good to see no matter how you slice it....but I wonder if he'd be projecting as more than a 28th pick based on his play right now.

[timvp]

[merging my thoughts from a different thread. ChumpDumper > timvp]

Another win. They beat the 66ers 113-87. This time without Washington, Williams or Langford. Didn't watch or listen to the game but it looks like Mahinmi played well yet again. 21 points, 13 rebounds, three steals and four blocks in 34:34. Plus he only had two fouls and two turnovers. Looks like it could have been his best game yet.

Squeaky Johnson started and had 10 points and 15 assists. I guess the assist problem for Darius Washington was more him than the team. DerMarr Johnson had 27 points to lead the way ... proving yet again that any shooting guard who plays big minutes can score in D-League. Justin Bowen started and finished with 18 points, eight rebounds and five assists.

Hopefully the Spurs were watching this game and can figure out that Langford and Williams aren't the studs their D-League stats made them out to be. If you play anyone with decent talent enough in the D-League they are going to put up stats.

[timvp]

@ Kris Lang. I forgot to mention him.

Lang is the type of signing that doesn't make sense for the Toros unless they are interested in winning. If that's the case, then Lang is a good guy to have around. But he has zero NBA potential so hopefully the Spurs don't get confused about him putting up big numbers in D-League and call him up. The Langford mistake is one too many

ChumpDumper, few questions:

1) Did Squeaky play the point tonight better than DWash did? Meaning were his 15 assists the result of great playmaking or was every just hot?

2) Would you classify this as Mahinmi's best game yet?

3) Do you agree with my assessment that the only difference between players like Williams and Langford compared to Bow2n and Johnson is minutes? The Spurs apparently got excited that Williams and Langford were lighting it up in the D-League. My opinion is that Williams and Langford didn't do anything many others aren't capable of doing. Hopefully this is a wakeup call for the Spurs that Langford isn't a 6-foot-3 Michael Jordan.

[Cry Havoc]

Will Mahinmi see time in a Spurs uniform this season? If he's putting up those kind of numbers, he deserves a bit of spot duty at least, and from the little action I've seen him play.

After tonight, anyone with fresh legs and some energy would be welcome.

[ChumpDumper]

1) Did Squeaky play the point tonight better than DWash did? Meaning were his 15 assists the result of great playmaking or was every just hot?

His decision making is better, mainly because he realizes he is pretty limited as a scorer. He's very quick, but seems to have more control in his penetrations than Darius did.

2) Would you classify this as Mahinmi's best game yet?

Yes. Now I'd like to see him do it against tougher compe ion, but that won't happen until the showcase.

3) Do you agree with my assessment that the only difference between players like Williams and Langford compared to Bow2n and Johnson is minutes? The Spurs apparently got excited that Williams and Langford were lighting it up in the D-League. My opinion is that Williams and Langford didn't do anything many others aren't capable of doing. Hopefully this is a wakeup call for the Spurs that Langford isn't a 6-foot-3 Michael Jordan.

I think the "excitement" is generated by seeing a player work in the Spurs' system on offense and defense. I really don't see a problem in their bringing up players for auditions like these. It's one of the main reasons to own a minor league team. I don't think they consider every player they call up to be a sure-fire NBA player -- that's why the deals aren't guaranteed.

Oh, and I think the Lang acquisition could be a sign that they may call up Ian for a spell as much as anything else.

[timvp]

Thanks for the reply. Looking back on it, perhaps the Spurs had soured on Washington a while ago. I remember being confused about why they drafted so many point guards and kept so many around.

This could have been the plan all along.

One last question: Did you hear anything about whether Washington would be back if he clears waivers? Reading Washington's blog it doesn't seem like that's in the cards.

[ChumpDumper]

I heard nothing, but my guess is Darius has some offers from Europe to mull over if he clears waivers. He could conceivably stick it out for a few more weeks in the D-League so everyone can get a good look at him at the showcase, but I suppose he would have to have some assurances he was being considered for another NBA job.

[timvp]

I wonder how the D-league compares to college ball...

For perimeter players, I'd say the D-League might be easier than the college level in terms of putting up stats. With the three-point line and the rules spacing the floor, perimeter players have a lot of room to shine.

However, it's tough for a bigman to do well in the D-League. First of all, the ticky tack fouls get bigmen in foul trouble. Also, with the lack of continuity on most teams, it's hard to have many complicated plays to get bigmen involved. And then there are the countless ballhog guards in the league.

The D-League has had around 100 call-ups in its history. The best bigmen out of that entire list is one of Mikki Moore, Chuck Hayes and Justin Williams. Not exactly world beaters.

According to most hardcore D-League fans (including Marty Blake and his son, who are the scouting directors for the league IIRC), Amir Johnson of the Detroit Pistons is the best player in the history of the D-League. Johnson, for those who don't know, is very similar to Mahinmi. Both are raw, athletic bigmen who project to be power forwards.

Johnson in his last season in the D-League averaged:

18.9 points
62.3% fg
74.9% ft
9.7 rebounds
2.1 assists
1.18 steals
3.14 blocks
3.18 turnovers
4.41 fouls
35.1 minutes

Mahinmi's stats look comparable:

18.2 points
64.2% fg
76.9% ft
8.1 rebounds
1.5 assists
1.7 steals
1.4 blocks
2.91 turnovers
4.00 fouls
31.6 minutes

Johnson's block numbers are quite a bit better but other than that, everything else looks the same. The biggest difference is Johnson was 19 during that season, while Mahinmi is 21.

This summer the Spurs reportedly offered Johnson something along the lines of a 3-year, $11M contract. For Mahinmi to be putting up very similar numbers, the Spurs have to be happy. I'd still say Johnson > Mahinmi, however Mahinmi's numbers are on the rise as of late but we'll see how much better he can get. If he can get into double-digit rebounds and up his blocks, he'd really start making noise. A lot of people are already saying he's the best big in D-League.

The thing I'm most excited about Mahinmi is his ability to adjust. He started out fouling too much while not rebounding enough. Now he's apparently solved his fouling problem while also upping his rebounding numbers. While he's gone against pretty weak compe ion, over the last three games he's averaging 25.7 points, 14 rebounds and 2.7 blocks.

Hard to complain about that.

[Bruno]

I'm quite impressed to see that Mahinmi is able to be consistent in D-League. I guess that Spurs aren't now that disappointed to have missed Johnson when you see that Mahinmi doesn't really look like a worse project and cost six times less.

Spurs want to take their time with Mahinmi and not rushing things but if he continues to play well and if Elson continue to be bad, Spurs could even try to see if Mahinmi is able to take Elson's spot this year. IMO, the only way Mahinmi get more than garbage time with Spurs this year is that he outplays Elson. I don't see it happening but we never know.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Calculating Johnson's numbers this season it seems that he will be a very good player in a few years. This season Johnson is logging 8.8 minutes of play and is averaging

2.8 rebounds
2.3 points
1.2 blocks

Per 48 min those numbers would translate to
15.26 rebounds
12.5 points
6.32 blocks

and it's only his second year. If this kid improves and Mahinmi follows a similar pattern then the spurs fandom will not be disappointed.

[picnroll]

Watching the replay of the Torros - Flash first game on NBA TV now and Washington was absolutely horrendous.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, he's being a super ballhog and committing charge after charge. Not adjusting his game at all.

[remingtonbo2001]

With reguard to Timvp's post, hasn't the quality of player's in the D-league improved?

Yes?...No...Maybe?

What year is the D-League in?

[ChumpDumper]

I think it's lower than last season, but last season was a high water mark for the league. It's unlikely anyone is going to find a bona fide star in the D-League, but decent role players are picked up from it every season. We happen to have one of its best coaches doing little else than keeping track of these guys, and he's assembled on of the most talented teams that could be put together in a little over a month's time. I'm pretty happy with the experiment so far.

[remingtonbo2001]

I'm curious.

I'm surprised to find myself wanting to go to a Toros game?

[T Park]

Timvp's comments on Ian are interesting.

It sounds like guarded optimism.