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Mahinmi's criticisms sound a lot like Nazr's weaknesses.
The Austin Toros have completed 20 of their 50 games this season and stand with a record of 14-6. That record is good for first place in the Southwest Division and the third best record in all of the NBA Development League.
Of those 20 games, I’ve been able to watch about four or five complete games and parts of other games. I was able to watch the last two games (yesterday and today) on NBATV. Overall, I’ve been pretty impressed. The team has ins uted a lot of what the Spurs do and they play cohesively as a unit even though there have been a lot of roster changes throughout the season.
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Ian Mahinmi
Spurs Connection: Selected by the Spurs with the 28th pick of the 2005 NBA Draft. Is currently under contract with the Spurs.
Offense: Always known as a defense and rebounding type player, Mahinmi’s offensive game has been very surprising. He’s averaging 18.3 points on 64.3% shooting from the field. Most of his damage comes on the low block where he has a trustworthy hook shot that he can go to. His above average length and athleticism make him a thunderous finisher around the basket. Mahinmi has also proven to be a willing passer and doesn’t force many bad shots or passes.
However, Mahinmi does have a lot to work on offensively. His jumper isn’t very dependable – mostly because his form is inconsistent and he doesn’t get any elevation. When he’s on the block, he almost always goes to his right. His moves are a little slow and robotic, but he’s improving in this area. Truthfully, it’s tough to critique his offensive game too much because his scoring is such a surprise. He’s never scored this well in any level of basketball.
Defense: While I’ve been pleasantly surprised by his offense, his defense leaves me extremely underwhelmed. Early in the season he struggled with foul trouble. The solution? Mahinmi just doesn’t play defense anymore. He just roams away from the ball and goes for blocks every now and then.
His man-to-man defense and team defense is non-existent at this point. Whenever he attempts to play defense, he fouls. He’s had a couple of good defensive possessions here and there but on the whole the Toros have him playing as little defense as possible to keep him out of foul trouble. He averages 1.39 blocks per game, which is low considering he plays over 30 minutes per game against a lot of weak compe ion.
Rebounding is another area he needs to improve in. He lacks any sort of natural rebounding instinct. He’s often late to get into position and then doesn’t have great timing on when to jump. Part of the problem is he’s not strong enough to properly box people out at this stage of development. He averages 7.7 rebounds per game, which isn’t bad but he should be averaging a lot more rebounds considering his length and athletic ability.
Future: Down the line, I think he has a good chance of becoming an NBA player. He’s a very fluid athlete and he plays with a lot of toughness. Those two attributes on his frame make him an automatic quality prospect. However, as it stands, his game still needs a lot of work. The main thing is he has to learn how to play defense without fouling. Not playing defense to not foul won’t fly with Pop. He’ll also have to learn how to rebound, which could come naturally with more strength training and more playing time. Working on his jumper is also important if he wants to play next to Tim Duncan in the future.
Grade: Even though Mahinmi only plays one end of the court for the Toros, he’s very likely the team’s best player.
B+
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Keith Langford
Spurs Connection: Played with the Spurs in summer league and in training camp. Was called up by the Spurs in December for a couple games.
Offense: Langford is a good shooter and he can create off the dribble. On the D-League level, he can finish at the rim rather easily. He’s a very good compe or offensively and comes up big when the Toros need him to. While he’s not a natural playmaker, he can make good passes and setup his teammates rather well.
Defense: Langford is an inconsistent defender. At times, he’ll really try to lockdown his opponent. At other times, he’ll just be going through the motions. In terms of team defense, he knows where to be and makes good rotations.
Future: If Langford were a couple inches taller, he’d have an NBA career. But since he’s a shooting guard, 6-foot-4 without explosive athleticism isn’t going to cut it on the NBA level. I don’t see him being able to make the transition to point guard in the NBA. That said, he’s going to make millions in Europe and should be able to dominate across the pond. While he leads the Toros in scoring at 24.1 points per game, I just think his lack of size is going to keep him out of the big leagues.
Grade: Langford has been very good for the Toros. Sometimes he can chuck it but overall he’s a good leader for the team.
A-
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Marcus Williams
Spurs Connection: Drafted by Spurs with the 33rd pick of the 2007 NBA Draft. Waived during training camp. Signed in December for a short stint with the team.
Offense: During summer league and training camp, Williams’ jumper looked horrible. However, he’s been able to improve his shot a lot while with the Toros. It’s still ugly and the form is still bad, but it’s getting better. With the Toros, Williams has averaged 16.8 points and is shooting better than 50% from the field.
His main strength offensive is scoring in transition and off of broken plays. He has a good natural feel for the game of basketball and can score when the game is free-flowing. He struggles once other teams have a chance to get set and defend him.
Defense: Williams is long and he uses that length to play good team defense. He can come over and adjust shots or get his hands in the passing lane. It’s no accident that he leads the team in steals at 1.53 steals per game.
Where Williams struggles is one-on-one defense. When matched up against a quick player, he just doesn’t have the foot speed to stay in front of the player. His lateral quickness isn’t very good and he gambles far too much.
Future: Williams is still young so he has time to work on his game. Although right now I don’t think he’s very close to being an NBA player. If he can continue to work on his jumper and get quicker and more nimble on the perimeter, he has a shot somewhere down the line.
Grade: Williams has actually surprised me a bit with how well he’s played with the Toros at times.
B
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DerMarr Johnson
Spurs Connection: Signed by the Spurs in December for a short stint with the team.
Offense: Johnson is tall and has a high release on his jumper – making it a very dangerous weapon on any level of basketball. With the Toros he has averaged 15.7 points per game while shooting 42.4% from the field. Obviously, he hasn’t shot the ball as well as he would have liked. He’s decent when driving to the basket but it’s not a strength of his game.
Defense: Johnson’s lateral quickness is a weak spot. He actually has solid defensive instincts and can use his length but he just isn’t that mobile on the perimeter. It’d be nice to see him pick up his defensive intensity as the season progresses.
Future: While he’s been around the NBA block a bit, he’s really not giving any team a reason to call him back up. He’s been good at times with the Toros but he doesn’t stand out as a quality prospect anymore. He’s a tall and can shoot it a bit – but that’s the extent of his worth as a basketball player.
Grade: Johnson’s inconsistency has hurt the Toros at times.
C+
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Kris Lang
Spurs Connection: Played in training camp with the Spurs this season.
Offense: Lang’s offensive game hasn’t evolved much since his days at North Carolina. He still has the same go-to hook shot. His jumper is decent but he doesn’t have a lot of confidence in it. He’s a decent finisher around the basket as long as he’s not matched up against anyone athletic.
Defense: He’s a bit slow but Lang is usually in the right position. He’s pretty physical defensively but he also fouls a lot. When forced to step out on the perimeter, he gets eaten alive.
Future: Lang basically has no NBA potential. He’s 28-years-old and other than his size, he doesn’t offer much of anything. In fact, his presence on the Toros right now actually hurts Mahinmi a bit because he occupies so much space down low that Mahinmi has less room to operate. The good news for Lang is he should be able to make plenty of money overseas.
Grade: Lang is pretty good at the D-League level but is it worth stunting the growth of others?
B-
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Justin Bowen
Spurs Connection: None
Offense: Bowen doesn’t have many plays called for him but he has scrapped his way to an average of 11.7 points per game. He scores in a variety of ways, although he’s probably best in transition.
Defense: Of everyone on the Toros, he’s the best one-on-one perimeter defender. Bowen has quick feet and can stay in front of most players. However, he needs to get stronger because he’s oftentimes overpowered whenever he tries to body up to a player.
Future: At 24, Bowen still has some time to mature as a player. He seems like he’s a good teammate whose main goal is to win games. I don’t think he has the skill level to be an NBA player but I won’t close the door on him yet.
Grade: Bowen is a good role player who can be counted on for a consistent effort.
B
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Cheyne Gadson
Spurs Connection: Played for the Spurs in summer league.
Offense: For a shooting guard who is transitioning to point guard, Gadson has actually handled his point guard duties rather well. He’s not a natural playmaker at all but he’s improving as a passer. Scoring-wise he can get hot and score with anyone on the team. He has nice touch around the basket and can hit the standstill jumper.
Defense: Defense is Gadson’s weakness. He doesn’t seem to care much about the defensive end of the court and is beaten off of the dribble repeatedly. He’s better defensively when he doesn’t play on the ball.
Future: At 27, Gadson’s NBA hopes are fading fast. He might actually be decent on a run-and-gun team but he’s not enough of a point guard to survive in most settings.
Grade: Gadson has filled in for Darius Washington well after Washignton left for Greece.
B-
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Justin Reed
Spurs Connection: None.
Offense: On the D-League level, Reed tries to score most of his points around the basket. His jumper doesn’t extend much further out than the paint. While he’s a small forward in the NBA, with the Toros his offensive game is much more like a power forward.
Defense: Reed is a very active defender but he hasn’t shown any discipline at all. He has the tools to be a Ron Artest-lite type defender but he needs to really refine how he approaches that end of the court.
Future: I was excited when the Toros signed Reed because of his natural tools. However, he has ball hogged offensively and has been so inconsistent defensively that I’m wondering now if the Toros should just go ahead and waive him.
Grade: Good talent but not a team player at this point. Until that changes, he hurts more than he helps.
D
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Carldell Johnson
Spurs Connection: None.
Offense: Can handle the ball and might be the only true point guard on the roster. That said, he has so much trouble scoring the ball that it’s difficult to play him.
Defense: He’s undersized and gets pushed around quite a bit. He tries to pressure the ball but it’s not very effective.
Future: Doesn’t have NBA potential but at 24, he has a chance to develop enough to become a starter on the D-League level.
Grade: Good insurance at point guard for the Toros.
C+
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Anthony Fuqua
Spurs Connection: None.
Offense: He’s a bigman with pretty good athleticism that he uses to score the ball.
Defense: When he’s not fouling, he’s actually not a bad defender.
Future: In his third season with the Toros, Fuqua hasn’t really shown many signs of improvement. He’s in better physical condition this season but his extremely low basketball IQ keeps him from being a reliable player.
Grade: The Toros could do a lot worse at the end of their bench than have a 6-foot-11 prospect who can run and jump pretty decently.
C
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The Spurs have to be happy with what they've seen out of the Toros. Quin Snyder has the team playing pretty well and each game he puts the team in position to win.
I'm a bit concerned about how Dermarr Johnson, Kris Lang and Justin Reed might be holding the team down a bit. Johnson and Reed tend to ball hog at times, while Lang clogs up the paint so much that it's hard for others to operate. Perhaps Snyder can get each of these players to better buy into the team concept. If not, the Toros might have to look at releasing at least one of these guys because right now there are simply too many players who want the ball.
Looking at the big picture, the thing to be most excited about is the play of Mahinmi. While his defense isn't where you'd want it to be, his offense is leaps and bounds better than anyone could have projected. Most everyone agrees that he's the best bigman in D-League and there's a chance he can be a solid backup center one or two years from now.
Last edited by timvp; 01-19-2008 at 01:54 AM.
Mahinmi's criticisms sound a lot like Nazr's weaknesses.
is that all we're getting?
Thanks for the detail timvp. It's good information to have, I like getting it here on ST. It's a more personal approach.
random trivia :
Ian Mahinmi's cousin is a 6-6 swingman playing juco ball before he goes to a division 1 school.
http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/story/299964.html
Hopefully the showcase got some of the ballhog instincts out of Lang, Reed and Johnson. Vets can be the best or worst kind of D-League players out there. Darvin Ham and Randy Livingston are fine examples of the former. If some of our vets continue to play this way I won't mind seeing them getting a contract elsewhere.
Quin Snyder quote from the Yahoo article Bruno linked:
There are these great competing forces here. To me, that's the challenge of the whole thing. For players, you have this survival component. There is this instinct of self-preservation that goes with the challenge of trying to get them to play together as a team, to value the team. You try to get them to understand that they can get to where they want to go by doing it this way.
I believe his potential is higher than that of a backup center. Now, you can't ask for the Spurs to come up with All Star material at n°28 every year. Spurs fans really are spoiled.
Is darius no longer playing for the Toros?
Darius signed in Greece
Most likely, Mahinmi will be a backup center in the NBA. He has a good shot of becoming what the Spurs wanted when they signed Elson.
Does he have the potential to be more than that? Sure but it's not too likely. However, at the rate he's improved his offense, maybe he can continue to improve at that speed and become a poor man's Amare Stoudemire.
But realistically, he projects out to be more of a rich man's Elson.
Yeah, that's really true. Nice find.
My biggest fears of the Lang signing seem to be coming true. Against the LA team, Lang wouldn't GTFO the lane so Mahinmi basically didn't have a chance to do anything.
In that sense, I think Pittsnogle was a better partner down low because Mahinmi used to have as much room as he wanted. Now, if Mahinmi doesn't beat KLang to the lane, KLang acts like he actually can do something in the low post.
You've seen Mahinmi more than I have. Do you agree that the Toros have basically told him to stop playing defense? In the games I've watched, the Toros specifically play so that Mahinmi isn't in a situation where he has to rotate to the ball. And it's a pretty good strategy because when Mahinmi is guarding a player with the ball, he fouls that play about 45% of the time.
That's entirely possible. It seems like he receives pretty specific instructions on what to do on D. After the first couple of foul-plagued games it looked like he was told never to leave his feet, which cut down on his blocking but kept him in games. Lately I don't think he's been told not to rotate at all -- it looks more like he's used to the others defending better than they do now so his timing and positioning is thrown. He's got four guys playing big minutes that weren't in camp, and three of them don't seem overly interested in the system. Ian hasn't gotten to the point where he can erase others' mistakes that well.
As far as individual defense, he's still not being helped by the dearth of true post scorers in the D-League, that's one plus to having Lang around in practice at least. Fortunately, after the Iowa game Sunday he'll have a nice run of about seven games against quality big men. We'll see how he is told to play against them.
Thanks for the recap timvp
Do you think Mahini has a chance to be in Spurs rotation next season or he'll spend another year in Austin?
Pop said this week, just before the D-League showcase, that Mahinmi will be with Spurs next year.
timvp! Thank you for the excellent report. The detail of a trained eye and passion of a caring soul.
Quinn tried to get all players some burn in the LA game since it was the "showcase".
Players have been complaining about Ian and Langford getting majority shots. Ian is an NBA assignee and Langford is the shooting guard right?
I say they are producing at a higher clip than the other players.
timvp you got the grades pretty straight on.
I think Reed could be waived and his minutes given to Justin Bowen - a better team player. Johnson could be waived and his minutes split between Williams and Langford. Lang, I think we need to keep because of Ian penchant to get into foul trouble and I don't know if Fuqua is a viable backup for extended minutes.
I'm waiting for Eric Dawson to get healthy.
One problem with the current makeup of the team is that Reed and Williams are both really power forwards in the D-League. When Williams plays PF, he plays really well. Same with Reed. However, Williams at SF doesn't have the quickness to guard perimeter players (for example, Almond lit him up for about 45 of his 52 points and Tucker went off for 20 in a half against him) and Reed at SF can't make a jumper to save his life.
So if Williams is too slow to guard on perimeter in dleague, then where oh my will he guard in the nba since power forward will definitely not be his position?
Rich man's Elson? I want to die.
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