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Indeed, God Bless our military.
...military.
Indeed, God Bless our military.
I wonder how long it will take for some snug asshole to make a derogatory comment about that wonderful photo.
Semper Fi!!
Damn right I support our military.
Anyone who would make a snide comment on a photo like that is out of line. It's not the military some of us have a problem with, it's what this administration is making them do. My feelings on it can be summed up with a quote from Bertrand Russell:
It's a beautiful photo regardless of whose military the man holding the child represents. You're comment in anticipation of the photo being ruined is what actually ruined it.Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their country.
But you know what? The job of the military is to kill people and break things with extreme prejudice. There's no way to get around that.
The job of the military is NOT to be a Red Cross clone.
It just happens that they are good at doing that too. And when they can, they should.
And, that is the case here...
You honestly think the a military's purpose is to "kill"? Call it idealistic (after all, we cynics are disappointed idealists), but I'd like to think we're past the ages of militaries being expressly for imperialistic empires where you go in, conquer and pillage, and rule authoritatively thereafter. I was under the impression that when budgets were configured the military was labelled under "defense spending" and such rather than "money for murder". This country has established that it can defend itself, if its military is going to go outside the country then shouldn't it be to help instead of to kill? You talk about it like helping someone was just incidental.
Last edited by Jekka; 01-05-2005 at 03:33 PM. Reason: posted before thought finished.
I know that. I was referring to Jekka's posting of the Bertrand Russell comment.
Just because "patriots" may not talk of killing for their country, they are often called upon to do so.
Patriots don't need to talk about killing for their country. They understand they may need to without talking about it.
It's sort of like saying "a true leader doesn't need to tell others how great a leader he/she is"...
That's a pretty ed up analogy - you're equating great leadership with killing.
And you talk about any military member who understands the need to kill is not a patriot.
In the end, yes. The military's purpose is to kill.
Now, having said that, the military does everything in its power not to do that unnecessarily. Military members do not enjoy killing and would prefer not to. But they understand it's in the job description.
In short, the military's job is to enforce the policies of their parent government. That definition applies to any country's forces, not just our own. When it can be done without killing, that's how it's done. When it can't be, then it's done in such a way as to minimize the killing.
No I'm not.
On the other hand, you're equating patriotism with complete pacifism. Which I think is pretty ed up, myself.
The understanding is quite debateable. Do the so called patriots in this country really understand the horror of real war? Or is their version of killing sanitized by one too many gun camera videos? When a country sits back and is critical of the arabic news network who shows much of the killing, I wonder if it does "understand" what killing is.
I don't doubt that there are a great number of people who are patriotic and do understand what is going on in Iraq and other places we use our military, but I do doubt that all (or even a majority) so called patriots understand what war is, and the supposed need for it.
And as Jekka said, the feelings of those who are against the war are not directed in any way at the military and the men and women in it, but the supposed patriots in the white house who supposubly understand a supposed need to kill.
Because war is the only patriotic measure? You know, as ed up as that is, that is this country's perception.
I recognize that complete pacifism is something that will probably never happen - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it. I'm saying that all other options had better be exhausted before we send people in for the purpose of killing.
Military members are patriots too, Manny. That's my only point in this thread.
And yes, they understand the horror of real war.
Patriots are those who love their country, regardless of how they think that country should be run.
I've never implied otherwise.
I prefer the quote by Oscar Wilde...
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
the job of a military is also to protect...looks like it in that picture to me.
Great quote, Manny. I think one thing that people tend to forget is that the reason why they can complain about the government is because of our military has put themselves on the line throughout history to ensure such rights.
Well, if we're doing quotes, how about this one? It's only from a character in a sci-fi novel, but I think it hits the nail on the head...
Pacifism for the sake of pacifism is the height of arrogant selfishness when that belief prevents you from acting to save others from harm
The military's principle purpose is to kill enemy combatants and to destroy enemy assets. Period.
However, having said that, the photo demonstrates our military has other uses...and, we're damn good at it.
Marines believe that one of our duties is to fight for those who can't fight for themselves and there is nothing wrong with that.
And yes, I got that from "A Few Good Men".
And, yet, you oppose the Iraq operation...where we're fighting for those who cannot fight for themselves.
You know, lets stop the ing bull !
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DOES NOT GO AROUND DOING THINGS IN THIS WORLD UNLESS THERE IS AN UNDERLYING REASON WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU WARM FUZZIES.
I'm sick of the way the military actions of this country are always sold as some noble crusade where we are off to save the world.
We do things that have beneficial consequences, and I am not denying that. There are definetly people in Iraq who are now better off because of our actions.
But the fact remains that we will do less than desirable things to innocent people across the globe whenever it suits our goals, short sighted and noble. We did not go into Iraq to save the masses, we went in for other reasons. So don't try and sell the operation as a humanitarian one, it's ing insulting.
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