A bit of perspective on Frankie

[SenorSpur]

There has been a lot of Elson hate on this board recently. Some of it righly so. By no means is this an attempt to rebuild the "Church of Elson", which has pretty much been torched to the ground by now. Nor this an attempt to rally support for him, or even lobby for the Spurs to keep him. Just a bit of perspective.

When he came here, we all knew about his wonderful athleticism, his length, and his ability to get up the court - fast. I still remember the Sunday afternoon home game (Spurs vs. the Rich-N-Creamies) a couple of seasons ago, when Elson beat Rasho, Duncan and Nazr up the court to torch the Spurs for something like 18 and 8, in a Nuggets road win. In my mind, that was the game that the Spurs became enamored with him. He was acquired via free agency that summer.

Yes, he has seemingly regressed some this season. He hasn't demonstrated a consistent understanding of the Spurs defensive rotations. He's not gotten consistent playing time either. Yet he's had his moments. He is what he is. Dude can still score from 8-15 ft out, he is an average rebounder and a sub-par defender. Even still, think the Mavs would like to have him now that Kidd is in the fold?

Part of his offensive problems are he more effective in transition. Without Parker, the Spurs rarely get out in transition. Elson NEEDS TP and Manu fto create transition opportunities for him. He still has a very sweet jumper though. Can he get better? Don't know. Is he a bum? No way. I don't think he's as bad as some think or even bad enough to warrant a permanent place in Pop's doghouse. It's not as though Oberto and Horry are playing at a high level either.

The point is, since the retirement of 5-0, everyone the Spurs have run through that position has had warts. They last a season or two and we're ready to get them outta here. I just don't think we should be ready to run Elson out of town, without a suitable replacement. If Elson is still on the roster after the trade deadline, it's not necessarily a bad thing. He does have an expiring contract. That said, if the Spurs can get Diop (my personal choice) in a trade for Elson, it would be a wash. They would certainly improve defensively, but not on the offensive end.

[polandprzem]

If you are in pop's doghouse it's hard to contribute. You have not much minutes to prove anything.
I remember the begining of a season when he was told to shoot the ball and he was making the baskets.

Now he do not know what his role is and spurs trying to higher the level of play leaves Elson on the same position. He did not make any progress and more than enything it's sad.
Sad because we do not have nobody at the frontcourt who can provide some offence flexability and more important - rebounds. The spurs system needs rebounds to be productive. Right now with the Shacky Bob we are in trouble.

[T Park]

That said, if the Spurs can get Diop (my personal choice) in a trade for Elson, it would be a wash. They would certainly improve defensively, but not on the offensive end.

Who cares about offense.

The Spurs need a shotblocking rebounder.

Diop is both of those.

Elson sucks.

End of story on that.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the Spurs won't repeat without some production from Elson. It's too late to get anyone else that can figure out the defense and he's got the strength to defend centers and the height to intimidate shooters when he's in position. I'd say Pop should put him into the rotation, first or second team, for the next ten or 12 games to see how he does, without pulling him the first time he s up. This system doesn't have to get any kind of stats from the center position in order to do well. You give up fewer easy baskets with a below average center in there than you do with Finley and Horry alongside Duncan on the front line.

[T Park]

You give up fewer easy baskets with a below average center in there than you do with Finley and Horry alongside Duncan on the front line

Uh Horry no.

Finley, yes.


Elson though has had almost 2 years.

If he hasn't figured the system out yet, hes never going to.

Trade him for Diop or Thomas.

[timvp]

Is he a bum? No way. I don't think he's as bad as some think

Agreed.

I led the charge to not sign the guy but that was when it appeared that the Spurs were looking at him as a starting center. I said at the time and I still believe today that if your starting center is Francisco Elson, you can't win a championship.

But as a backup center? Eh, not bad. There are a lot worse backup centers out there than Elson. Sure he sucks but there are a good number of starting centers who suck ... not to mention about 95% of backup centers suck.

And at least Elson practices really hard, is in good shape and cares about winning. Those three traits for a backup center are hard to find.

I won't go as far as to say he's vital to a championship run but he's a good 10th, 11th or 12th man. If he's traded in a deal that brings back a quality player I won't shed a tear but as long as he's on the team, he isn't as worthless as some people make him out to be.

[remingtonbo2001]

So, if he takes a pay cut, do you resign him?

With the addition of Splitter and Mahnimi, is Elson's speed to run down the court a neccesity. I was reminded that he is the only post player who is fast enough to keep up with Parker on a break. Elson does run the floor alot like David, but that's usually where the similarities end.

[SenorSpur]

So, if he takes a pay cut, do you resign him?

With the addition of Splitter and Mahnimi, is Elson's speed to run down the court a neccesity. I was reminded that he is the only post player who is fast enough to keep up with Parker on a break. Elson does run the floor alot like David, but that's usually where the similarities end.

Assuming the Spurs do not make a successful run at Diop, I'm not sure. I mean Elson is already cheap as it is. How much of a pay cut do you want the guy to take?

[remingtonbo2001]

Assuming the Spurs do not make a successful run at Diop, I'm not sure. I mean Elson is already cheap as it is. How much of a pay cut do you want the guy to take?

Maybe 2-2.5 mil per year.

[Obstructed_View]

Uh Horry no.

Finley, yes.


Elson though has had almost 2 years.

If he hasn't figured the system out yet, hes never going to.

Trade him for Diop or Thomas.

Horry's knack for making plays doesn't change the fact that he's not a good defender. He's historically been an above average weak side shot blocker, which doesn't mean much when he can't keep his own man from scoring when he's the 4. Elson's problem has less to do with his knowledge of the system than his inability to secure any playing time because he's the scapegoat for any defensive lapse, whether it's his fault or not. I guess Pop needs a whipping boy on the team; I wish he'd pick guys from positions of slightly less need for that job, or at least allow them to play through mistakes, like he did with Parker and Ginobili, at least once in a while.

[Holt's Cat]

At least the Spurs only paid $6 mil total for Elson over two seasons. For a NBA big who at least gave the Spurs a useful two man platoon at the 5 spot last year during a le run that's not a major problem. His expiring contract may just benefit the Spurs; we'll find out on Thursday.

[hater]

Diop >>>>> Elson

[remingtonbo2001]

Splitter>Diop

[Obstructed_View]

Diop >>>>> Elson

That's irrelevant. Diop=pipedream. Besides, the only way he's useful is if you have a time machine and can acquire him last year.

[hsxvvd]

Agreed that Elson will rise when Parker returns. Pop's small ball hasn't helped either. Even Oberto has been given a lot of minutes spelling Duncan. I don't necessarily think this is anything to do with Elson, but rather a preference to go small.

[polandprzem]

Horry's knack for making plays doesn't change the fact that he's not a good defender. He's historically been an above average weak side shot blocker, which doesn't mean much when he can't keep his own man from scoring when he's the 4. Elson's problem has less to do with his knowledge of the system than his inability to secure any playing time because he's the scapegoat for any defensive lapse, whether it's his fault or not. I guess Pop needs a whipping boy on the team; I wish he'd pick guys from positions of slightly less need for that job, or at least allow them to play through mistakes, like he did with Parker and Ginobili, at least once in a while.

Esp. when Center takes a great part in spurs defensive system.

If there would be Elson+Barry for Diop I would not pull up the triger just because of barry.

[fyatuk]

I think Elson has gotten the short end of the stick on defense. He's not good in the Spurs system, but he's rarely been as bad as he's made out to be on that side.

My biggest problem with Elson is on the offensive side. His spacing is crap and his timing worse. When he's in there, several times a game he'll run his man down into Duncan at the exact moment Duncan is going up for a shot. He just seems to blow up any rhythym on the offensive side. At the very least, I don't think he should be on the court at the same time as Duncan (Duncan being our only real post scorer would be the one most affected by this annoying Elson habit).

[smeagol]

Scola >>>> Elson

[polandprzem]

Scola >>>> Elson

[SAGambler]

Somewhere in the playoffs, we are going to have the need for a big man with speed. Elson is the only one we have who fits that. I can't understand how a person who speaks 5 languages fluently cannot get a grasp on the Spurs system.

I've watched last years playoffs a few times, and Elson actually performed in some of those games pretty damn well.

Other than just being a big man, I'm not so sure Diop would help us this season, even if we could get him.

After watching part of the Rockets dismantling of the Cavs last night, I'm beginning to wish more and more we would have kept Scola. If he has fit in this well in Houston, imagine how he would have fit in with Manu and Oberto.