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  1. #1
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I never knew this before, but John McCain likely cannot be president. He is not a "Natural Born Citizen" as called out in Article II of the cons ution. Why this hasn't been brought up until today is a mystery to me.

    Several law findings conclude that natural born means born in the USA. To me, it is simple. McCain is not a native born citizen. I think in a case like his, it is ridiculous. However, I have a daughter born in an Army hospital in Germany. I was told she could never be president!

    This could cause some serious issues. If you are a McCain or republican supporter in general, imagine this. He gets the presidential election, then the democrats bring on a court case and win, making him ineligible. What happens then?

    I think in cases like this, the native born should include citizens born in other countries who were there because of military duty of the parents. Still, I will take this technicality is it means Huckabee will become the nominee over McCain. This part of the cons ution should be changed. However, it is hard to dispute the black and white of the cons ution, and it is the supreme law of the land.

  2. #2
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    LE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1403

    § 1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or after February 26,
    1904
    (a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

    (b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in le, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
    Link

  3. #3
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    However, I have a daughter born in an Army hospital in Germany. I was told she could never be president!
    That's because she's female.

  4. #4
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Chump, why are you being a troll?

    Dan, there is a distinction between "natural born citizen" and "citizen". Arnold Schwarzenegger is a citizen, yet he is not natural born to the USA and cannot be elected president without a cons utional change. Law does not supercede the cons ution.

    Article II section 1 Clause 5:

    Qualifications for office

    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Cons ution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

  5. #5
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Nobody raised the question when Mitt's dad ran, so precedent is firmly on McCain's side.
    Chump, why are you being a troll?
    you, that's why.

  6. #6
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Nobody raised the question when Mitt's dad ran, so precedent is firmly on McCain's side. you, that's why.
    You are such a troublemaker at times, I'm surprised you haven't been banned.

    Yes, George Romney and Barry Goldwater both ran for president, and are not natural born US citizens. I fail to understand why this was allowed. Today with modern information systems, it is easily seen. In their days before the internet, it is understandable that it could go unnoticed for Romney and Goldwater.

  7. #7
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Yeah, how could anyone have known Mexico wasn't part of the United States back then? They didn't even have basic cable.

  8. #8
    A VERY BAD man
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    You are such a troublemaker at times, I'm surprised you haven't been banned.

    Yes, George Romney and Barry Goldwater both ran for president, and are not natural born US citizens. I fail to understand why this was allowed. Today with modern information systems, it is easily seen. In their days before the internet, it is understandable that it could go unnoticed for Romney and Goldwater.
    It did not go 'unnoticed' for Goldwater. It went to the US Supreme Court and they ruled he was eligible to be president of the US.

  9. #9
    Purrrrrrrrrrrr Holt's Cat's Avatar
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    McCain was born by C-section?

  10. #10
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    Mr. McCain is not the first person to find himself in these cir stances. The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state. But Goldwater did not win, and the view at the time was that since he was born in a continental territory that later became a state, he probably met the standard.

    It also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell P. Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

    Quickly recognizing confusion over the evolving nature of citizenship, the First Congress in 1790 passed a measure that did define children of citizens “born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States to be natural born.” But that law is still seen as potentially uncons utional and was overtaken by subsequent legislation that omitted the “natural-born” phrase.

    Mr. McCain’s citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic cons utional qualifications — a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.

    “I don’t think he has any problem whatsoever,” said Mr. Nickles, a McCain supporter. “But I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if somebody is going to try to make an issue out of it. If it goes to court, I think he will win.”

    Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.

    In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be “unpredictable and unsatisfactory.”

    “If I were on the Supreme Court, I would decide for John McCain,” Ms. Pryor said in a recent interview. “But it is certainly not a frivolous issue.”

  11. #11
    Veteran TheProfessor's Avatar
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    McCain was born by C-section?
    He was from his mother's womb untimely ripped.

    This is only an issue now because he actually has the nomination in hand. It's been brought up before and dismissed.

  12. #12
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Have we no common sense?

    This is ridiculousness at its best (worst?)

  13. #13
    Veteran
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    Goldwater, born in the AZ "terrritory" (before statehood), was "natural born" back in 1964.

    Nobody but WC, our Cons ution prick scholar (it's short and sweet), cares. The right-packed SCOTUS would of course never disqualify InSaine as un-naturally born.

    There are much easier ways to destroy InSaine than his birthplace. In fact, InSaine will sing Bomb-Bomb-Bomb-iran and talk about Iraq-for-ever into over overwhelming defeat, self-destroyed.

    A large majority of Americans now think Iraq was/is a mistake and they want the US out of Iraq, sooner rather than later.

  14. #14
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    You are such a troublemaker at times, I'm surprised you haven't been banned.
    not likely. you see, there's this head that post all the time that said our soldiers died because they opposed the war. absolute ignorance can't even get you banned, but look who i'm telling.

  15. #15
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    McCain's disqualification as un-natural is what's keeping Huck wasting Hucks' time and (other peoples') money? God will come down and smite McCain with a copy of the Cons uion.

  16. #16
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    This seems like a ridiculous issue. There's a fundamental difference between someone born of American parents in a geographical area defined as American territory and someone born of alien parents in an alien territory. The concern that the Cons utional provision seeks to protect against the possibility that those who are actually loyal to a foreign government might assume the highest office in the land and compromise national security or other interests by that alien loyalty. That's not a problem for someone in McCain's situation.

    For what it's worth, technically, George Washington wasn't born in the United States of America, nor were other early Presidents -- they were born British subjects in British territory.

  17. #17
    2nd Verse Same as the 1st Oh, Gee!!'s Avatar
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    troll forum

  18. #18
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    There is no concern whatsoever that the Democrats would bring a court case to take McCain out of office.

    I'm guessing this is a hot topic on the Pundit Circuit right now, and the only reason is ultra-conservatives can't stand McCain. They're just trying to position this in a way that still makes Democrats look like evil blood suckers waiting in the shadows to pounce if Republicans make the horrible mistake of choosing John McCain. Two birds, one stone.

    Republican talking points have gotten so transparent these days.

  19. #19
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Non-issue, IMO.

    To me, youre American when youre born to American (citizen) parents. I dont give a if its Uruguay.

    Now, born and raised in Uruguay is a debateable topic. But seeing as McCain was born elsewhere and raised in America by American (citizen) parents, this is all bull in my mind.

  20. #20
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    And you know what? If I was a Republican and I thought electing McCain would cause the Democrats to go on a crusade to remove him from office, I'd say bring it on... because that kind of thing would piss off a lot of moderates and the Democrats stand to lose a lot more than they have to gain from such a thing. It's not like a Democrat would suddenly get to be President.

  21. #21
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    This could cause some serious issues. If you are a McCain or republican supporter in general, imagine this. He gets the presidential election, then the democrats bring on a court case and win, making him ineligible. What happens then?

    I think in cases like this, the native born should include citizens born in other countries who were there because of military duty of the parents. Still, I will take this technicality is it means Huckabee will become the nominee over McCain. This part of the cons ution should be changed. However, it is hard to dispute the black and white of the cons ution, and it is the supreme law of the land.
    Again, I don't think there's any problem with McCain's eligibility and I would be shocked if anyone chose to really challenge that issue in the event that McCain might win the election.

    Should the hypothesized situation occur, there would be no question of anyone becoming the nominee, because the election would be over. If McCain were to win the election and then have his eligibility successfully challenged, the President-elect would, cons utionally be whomever was McCain's running mate. The same result would hold if McCain were to win election and then, before assuming office, be incapacitated or even (God forbid) assassinated. If only for that reason, it would be political suicide for the Democrats to challenge at that point in the process.

    In the event that a challenge were mounted and concluded before the general election, I would presume that identifying a candidate would truly be a matter of party politics. I can't imagine that there would any reason that the Republicans would be compelled to nominate Huckabee in that situation.

  22. #22
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    You are such a troublemaker at times, I'm surprised you haven't been banned.
    Interesting fact: Chump used to be a mod. He is unbannable.

  23. #23
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Was unbannable.

    There just haven't been enough signatures on the pe ion to date.

  24. #24
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I don't consider that trolling.

  25. #25
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    In a bad way that is.

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