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Relax.
The Lakers, Mavericks, Suns made their efforts to duplicate and to counter SA's "big three" but I think they failed. They might be able to to have their Big three but I doubt that they matched what SA did. What they failed to recognize is that the big three is really the BIG FOUR - composed of Duncan , Ginobili, Parker and Bowen.
Duncan is arguably the best power forward in the league right now offensively and defensively. Shaq isn't what he used to be. Nowitzki kind of play is more of a SF than a PF (so I doubt if he could contest duncan in the post). Stoudamire is the closest that could counter Duncan in the post, but I think he still need a lot of maturing before he could consistently win against Timmy.
Ginobili, in my opinion, is the most productive player in Basketball. He's a threat defensively and offensively. Although Kobe is ahead of him statistically, Gino is still at par with him in terms of offensive talent. Jason Terry (Mr. fourth quarter for Dallas) and Manu provides cardiac shots for their respective teams, but Terry lacks the defensive intensity that Ginobili provides for his team. Raja bell is a defensive specialist but isn't considered as big an offensive threat as Manu.
Parker is one of the greatest offensive guards today. Virtually a flash because of his speed and accuracy in the paint. He can either be a primary option in offense or a playmaker. He's as fast and clever as Nash but physically superior than the latter. Kidd is in the same league as Nash in terms of his passing- but he is no longer an defensive threat against Parker. Fisher is probably is the only person that can guard him, but he is already passe and might be unable to do it anymore consistency.
Bowen is the most consistent and flexible defender in the league. He can guard the likes of Iverson, Anthony, James , Bryant, Nowitzki , and Nash. In my books, no one has equaled bowen's accuracy and skill in defending people. He is the fourth member of the BIG FOUR which other teams failed to duplicate. They may have the more or the same amount of fire power as the spurs , but they never had the same defensive power as the spurs.
in your opinion, considering Bowen's contribution to SA does he deserve to be included in the "BIGS" of San Antonio? In making their moves, how well did the other teams match up against SA's BIG four?
Relax.
Oh...THAT big four...I though you were talking about les...
Don't do it . . .
Just wanted to know what other think about players match up against the spurs
"When you want to come..."
We're dating ourselves by knowing the lyrics!
Cons ent or not, the Spurs have the Big "Three" not the Big "Four"...
Got reasons to come along with that?
Is that song about Tantra?
."When you want to come..."
We're dating ourselves by knowing the lyrics!
I hadn't noticed.
Now I got that stuck in my head.
Bruce is one of the most underappreciated players ever. His ability to marginalize the other teams best player helps the Spurs bridge whatever talent gap there may be. Plus, down the stretch of games he's a difference maker. He's going to have his Jersey retired, so with all that being said, I guess "Big" is fitting.
Agreed. Spurs really are a Big Four, despite the common assumption. Timmy, Tony and Manu may be phenomenal, but defense is what has gotten the Spurs through the playoffs when the going got tough during the championship runs. Seriously, I'm not sure if the Spurs would have gotten their last two rings without Bruce's in-your-face D against each and every team's best perimeters. I watched the Lakers whip the Mavs yesterday (Kobe going off for 52) and couldn't help but think that this wouldn't be happening if Bowen was on Bryant. Kobe knew the Mavs had absolutely no one to stop him, and rabid dog that he is he went in for the kill every time down the court.
This is why the Spurs really are a Big Four. Without a Kobe killer, a Lebron stopper, an A.I. muzzler, etc. like Bowen, I'm just not sure we'd be the champions everyone is clamoring to imitate that we are.
i have always said that it could be disrespectful to Bruce to talk all the time about the big three when he is as valuable as Manu and Tony to the team... Tim is simply on another level...they truly are the big four... i believe in that...
This probably won't help.
Bruce Bowen #12 Forward
2007-08 Statistics
PPG 5.7
RPG 2.70
APG 1.2
MPG 30
Born: Jun 14, 1971
These are easily the worse stats for any starting SF in the League.
And Bowen can't keep up with the best perimeter players this season.
Udoku™ does the same thing in half the time.
Need I say more?
Bruce Bowen #12 Forward
2007-08 Statistics
PPG 5.7
RPG 2.70
APG 1.2
MPG 30
Born: Jun 14, 1971
These are easily the worse stats for any starting SF in the League.
And Bowen can't keep up with the best perimeter players this season.
Udoku™ does the same thing in half the time.
Need I say more?
That the reason why Bowen is so underrated as a player, he's always looked upon in an offensive point of view, rather than his overall effect on the game. Admit it or not most of the things he do isn't reflected on stats. But if that's the way you look at it, then we can't change that.
But just to be sure, can you compare L.JAMES SCORING STATS in the finals and Playoffs of 07?
"When you want to come..."
We're dating ourselves by knowing the lyrics!
Key song in one of the best movies of all time: Zoolander
Bowen's "stats?" Who cares about his stats? When we play the Lakers it's Kobe's stats we need to worry about. When we're up against the Suns, it's Nash's stats that we need to shut down.
True Spurs fans know it's not about stats, but rather team chemistry and D. Bruce is indispensible to the task of controlling the other teams' perimeter superstars. There's just no one better, as every other player and every coach in the league very well know. Big time players like Kobe relish the opportunity to go against the best like Bruce. Wannabe players like Jason Terry and whiny players like Vince Carter are the ones that moan and groan every time they see Bowen coming their way. You can't beat that... stats don't mean a damned thing on the court where the game is played and won!
I wouldn't consider Bruce Bowen part a major player for the Spurs to be considered having a "Big Four." However, he's an invaluable role player and has been for many years and he certainly earns his salary. He's not an absolute lock-down defender anymore, but then again in today's NBA where you can't so much as put a pinky on an offensive player without getting a foul, I don't believe there are any lock-down perimeter defenders anymore. As I said, Bruce is a great role player, a glue guy. But, if Bruce Bowen went down and missed a bunch of games, the Spurs would not feel the effect they would when and if Tim, Tony, or Manu go down. They just wouldn't, and especially with Udoka demonstrating he can hold his own in doing what Bruce does.
I don't want to downplay what Bruce has done for the Spurs over the years and even this year, but I wouldn't consider him one of a "Big Four" for the Spurs.
Bruce is indeed a stellar defender and one reason for the Spurs success but he is not one of the main reasons. Without Tim, Tony or Manu the Spurs would be nothing but an underdog for the le. Without Bruce they're still a contender. I don't wan't to play down what Bruce does for the Spurs, but considering what people refer to as the big xyz he does not qualify for this category. Or would you say the Rockets got the Big Three because they have Yao, McGrady and Battier?
I just can't agree about Bruce not being essential to Spurs championships, past, present and future. In the playoffs in which it takes six or seven games to put down a team (re the Suns and Mavs in the past, and possibly the Lakers and Jazz this year), keeping a Bryant, a Nash or Williams from exploding for 40 or more points, or 10 or more assists, is often what has made a difference between a 95 to 92 win or a 92 to 95 loss.
I'm convinced that we probably wouldn't have won our last two championships without Bruce. Obviously he's on his last legs, and I hope Udoka (or someone else) develops into an heir apparent. Heck, ask any of the Spurs. When they have to go up against other top defensive stoppers they know they may not be having a big offensive game that night. So what do they do? They fall back on the patented Spurs defense to pull out the win. If making the defensive stops is what's gotten them their rings, and if Bruce and Timmy are the Spurs' premier defensive stoppers, you can actually make a case for the fact that San Antonio is really a "Big Two": Duncan and Bowen!
Thanks for the reasoned other point of view. I don't contest that Spurs would be nothing if Duncan, Manu and Parker wasn't in it. I don't see them winning that way either. My only point in mentioning Bruce is that I believe that he played as much part in the Success of San Antonio as the three other players mentioned. If Lebron was to have his way in the Finals last year , do you think the spurs would have won it all the way?
I beg to differ, but It's just to obvious to ignore that stopping the other teams leading scorer is a big thing in winning games. That is what makes Bruce deserving to be part of the elite.
Most teams agree to the saying the "offense win you games but defense win you championship" - I think , if you apply this on the individual level - Bruce would be given his due. Many players can score but we seldom see guys like him, who could shut down a great player offensively.
If the Rockets is as successful as the spurs and Shane played a big part of it (like bowen did) , I would say in a heartbeat that they have a big three.
Dude, do you really want your thread to keep in the first page that badly?
Every time it starts going down you pump it up with another post.
Relax, don't do it.
Your helping me do it
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