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Spurs have been outrebounded four games in a row. That's extraordinarily unfortuitous.
So, I'm sure gonna get flamed for this thread, but I have to put it out there to work out if I'm insane or not.
Tonight, I thought we were thoroughly outplayed - out-hustled, out-thought, out-shot. The Hornets simply played much better than the Spurs in all aspects of the game from late in the 2nd quarter onward.
When things went wrong in the 3rd Q, a number of posters in the game thread said the Spurs had "given up". Commonly, when things go badly around here, posters say the team has "given up". I didn't think they gave up tonight until the game was clearly over (ie. 5 to go in the 4th when Pop brought in the bench).
Now, earlier in the season, in Dec/Jan, I saw the team give up a couple of times, and I admit that it does happen, especially in the first 40 games. However tonight, and in general at this time of the season with so much on the line, I haven't seen them give up at all. Tonight I saw them keep fighting as nothing fell their way and they were simultaneously unlucky and outplayed - the Hornets were hitting tough shots, flying around for rebounds that were also fortuitously falling for them, playing tough D. The Spurs were doing much the same except the shots and rebounds wouldn't fall right, and the Hornets' shot-making was simply too good for any D. The backbreaker was the great double by TP and Tim on a fading Peja who hit the rainbow from 18 ft.
Anyway, the point is, was this a case of "giving up" (in the 3rd Q) or being "outplayed"?
Spurs have been outrebounded four games in a row. That's extraordinarily unfortuitous.
Outplayed.
Yes, it's a worrying trend, but odd because we've been out-rebounding teams all year. I just don't see them giving up during the most crucial stretch of the season. It could be related to footspeed, not effort. I agree with this from SenorSpur:
"First, they indicated that when the Spurs resort to a trapping style of defense, it's not as effective because of the advanced age and lack of quickness on the part of most of their defenders. This point was repeated by the same broadcast team in an earlier contest between these two teams earlier this season. It's a salient point because they really do seem to struggle against younger, quicker teams - like the Hornets. Their rotations are late, if they come at all, and they don't seem as quick to rebounds and loose balls. We all know if the Spurs cannot defend the opposition, it doesn't really matter what they do on the offensive end."
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89408
Sadly, I think age may finally be catching up with our team.
Looks like we are not talented anymore. I keep hearing that we are talented, where the was the talent? Can someone out of the big three make a play nowadays?
I noticed players that lost their confidence: Oberto, Stoudamire, Udoka.
And some that are out of it: Horry, Finley and Manu.
Players that still give a : Parker, Duncan, Vaughn and Bonner
A coach who's lost it: Pop
Go Spurs Go.
This year we repeat for sure.
I could have sworn you just said that it was related to bad bounces, but whatever. Here's the easy way to tell who's right: If the Spurs continue to be outrebounded for the rest of the season and get bounced out of the first round of the playoffs by a younger, quicker team (since they are all younger and quicker) then you'll be right. If they decide to play smart basketball and show some effort then they'll magically start playing good defense, outrebounding teams, taking high percentage shots, drawing fouls and actually hitting the majority of their free throws. I wouldn't be surprised if that's coupled with having more points than their opponents at the end of games.
I'd certainly hate to think anyone in this league is capable of holding the Spurs to four points in a quarter when they are actually making a genuine effort to come back. But then I know better since the Spurs don't settle for jumpers when they're making an effort.
Outplayed. I don't want to hear any more about the team "is tired". , every team in the league plays their own stretch of above-average teams. Every team in the league plays back-to-back games. That excuse is played out.
After being out played and getting their doors "blown off", Pop gave up.
"Gave up" or "outplayed"?
-slapped.
I think spurs were out rebounded because they missed a lot of shots...and how can you get the defensive rebounds if the opponets were hitting 50% + of their FG?
I think a little of both.The Spurs looked very old tonight.
Um, play defense? They certainly missed enough shots to be getting some offensive boards. Or they could have considered shooting from inside the paint more than once in the 4th quarter.
is there still teh no mercy rule?
Beat the down.
Manu gives a . You can always count on him to give a . It's jsut that defenses have been extremely effective at limiting his production lately because they've been rough with him and been clogging the paint. And to make things worse, his 3 has been off even when he's open.
When he's not a able to drive and kick out, guys like Horry, Finley and Bowen become about half as usefull as they are with him driving.
Gave up! POP is showing the white flag everytime he can, I don't get it .. you can say CIA, KGP, MI5, CSI, but for is S.U.C.K.
I've seen teams give up, and I just didn't see that tonight.
If you're right and we did give up in the middle of the 3rd (which is when people started saying it in the game thread), then we may as well go fishing now, but I don't see it. I think from that point on we kept trying, but a combination of bad bounces and being out-shot (they made some really tough ones while we couldn't make a wide open jumper all night), and out-hustled (which could well be a combination of superior effort on the Hornets' part, and slower feet on the Spurs' part) added up to simply being outplayed.
I hope we're BOTH wrong, because if either of us is right there's no trophy this year.
Oh, and I don't like arguing with people either. We're all on the same side, after all.
Send Los Toros, they will do a better job on the road!
outplayed.. this isn't high school ball. who the gets paid that amount of money to give up? pop would put foot to ass if he smelled that
One more comment - it was on odd game because we couldn't hit a jumper at any point - 2-18 from 3 and 7-17 from the line, not to mention all the wide open 2s missed.
Despite that, we stayed in it until the middle of the third by destroying the Hornets inside. TP and Manu were penetrating at will for 2 quarters before the Hornets pushed the D up a notch. Chandler is the key there - he was out for much of the 1st half with 2 early fouls, and when he's in the game they are tough inside. When he's not, they are marshmallow.
Looks like we are not talented anymore. I keep hearing that we are talented, where the was the talent? Can someone out of the big three make a play nowadays?
I noticed players that lost their confidence: Oberto, Stoudamire, Udoka.
And some that are out of it: Horry, Finley and Manu.
Players that still give a : Parker, Duncan, Vaughn and Bonner
A coach who's lost it: Pop
Go Spurs Go.
This year we repeat for sure.
Disagree about Manu...He has been playing MVP level basketball in the past few months...without him, the Spurs would have been way lower in the seedings right now...
I don't know how you can say that he is out of it...
Even in today's game, he took 10 shot attempts, lower number of shot attempts because both Tony and Tim were rolling...hence, TP took more shot attempts...
The biggest problem is the ROLE players...and I mean ALL of them right now...
A team cannot win with only THREE players playing solid basketball...it takes a full team effort to win a game or a series...It's that simple...Finley/Udoka/Bruce are struggling with their shots lately. Horry's shots just went away somewhere...Damon who had a brilliant start with the Spurs got lost somewhere...
Tony also recently had a few stretch of games where he has played inconsistent basketball. He is just back from the injury, so he's not a 100% yet. Today, he was solid. Tim was solid too. And Manu had a high percentage shooting night as well.
So it looks like The Big Three have been doing everything on their own a bit...That's not going to get it done. They are playing high minutes, they are getting tired...While the role players are not doing much at the moment.
That's what I reckon.
Doesn't make the loss any kinder though.
Good post.
We can't win unless the role players at least break even with the other team's role players, and the only game they've done that in the last 4 was the win over Denver.
*sigh*
BURN THAT LOS SPURS BS JERSEY, and NEVER NEVER bring that back....jinx
My comment regarding Manu was about this game, he had no speed, no energy and his at ude was low considering his high standards. But I agree with you on the role players, who don't play their role as of late
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