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  1. #1
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Yes, Faux News took Jeremiah Wright's word out of context...the man does not hate white people, nor does he hate America....Faux News should be banned...


  2. #2
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    It's just part of giving balance Dan.

    Any time a republican or white's work can be misconstrued to be a racist remark, it is reported to death. This is just balance. Showing the blacks what us whites have to deal with.

    It has also been well reported by Fox and conservative programming he was talking about the past sins. Still, his words do foster hatred rather than love. There is no defense of him, nor for Obama, calling this man a "mentor."

    The apparent truth is that Obama either feels the same way, or simply used the powerful black message of the church for political gain. Either way, it shows a side of Obama that wasn't well known before.

    FYI. I've even called him a racist, however, nobody called me on my misuse of the word. Truth is, few people know the subtle differences between prejudice, racism, racialism, bigotry, etc.

    Now remember how the liberals want to legislate hate crimes. "If it APPEARS to be hateful" is a common phrase. Such idiocy is why conservative reject so-called equal rights legislation. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. Now consider this. Regardless what the verbatim and meaning of Wright's words, he appears to be a racist. What's wrong with us conservatives turning around liberal definitions and using them against them?

  3. #3
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    It's just part of giving balance Dan.

    Any time a republican or white's work can be misconstrued to be a racist remark, it is reported to death. This is just balance. Showing the blacks what us whites have to deal with.

    It has also been well reported by Fox and conservative programming he was talking about the past sins. Still, his words do foster hatred rather than love. There is no defense of him, nor for Obama, calling this man a "mentor."

    The apparent truth is that Obama either feels the same way, or simply used the powerful black message of the church for political gain. Either way, it shows a side of Obama that wasn't well known before.

    FYI. I've even called him a racist, however, nobody called me on my misuse of the word. Truth is, few people know the subtle differences between prejudice, racism, racialism, bigotry, etc.

    Now remember how the liberals want to legislate hate crimes. "If it APPEARS to be hateful" is a common phrase. Such idiocy is why conservative reject so-called equal rights legislation. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. Now consider this. Regardless what the verbatim and meaning of Wright's words, he appears to be a racist. What's wrong with us conservatives turning around liberal definitions and using them against them?
    The shoe has to fit, WC. It doesn't here.

  4. #4
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Nice.....but the question is can W.C. spot the real racists?

    Different Standards for Black and White Preachers
    Cenk Uygur


    Rudy Giuliani's priest has been accused in grand jury proceedings of molesting several children and covering up the molestation of others. Giuliani would not disavow him on the campaign trail and still works with him.

    Mitt Romney was part of a church that did not view black Americans as equals and actively discriminated against them. He stayed with that church all the way into his early thirties, until they were finally forced to change their policies to come into compliance with civil rights legislation. Romney never disavowed his church back then or now. He said he was proud of the faith of his fathers.

    Jerry Falwell said America had 9/11 coming because we tolerated gays, feminists and liberals. It was our fault. Our chickens had come home to roost, if you will. John McCain proudly received his support and even spoke at his university's commencement.


    Reverend John Hagee has called the Catholic Church the "Great ." He has said that the Anti-Christ will rise out of the European Union (of course, the Anti-Christ will also be Jewish). He has said all Muslims are trained to kill and will be part of the devil's army when Armageddon comes (which he hopes is soon). John McCain continues to say he is proud of Reverend Hagee's endorsement.

    Reverend Rod Parsley believes America was founded to destroy Islam. Since this is such an outlandish claim, I have to add for the record, that he is not kidding. Reverend Parsley says Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" brought down from a "demon spirit." Of course, we are in a war against all Muslims, including presumably Muslim-Americans. Buts since Parsley believes this is a Christian nation and that it should be run as a theocracy, he is not very concerned what Muslim-Americans think.

    John McCain says Reverend Rod Parsley is his "spiritual guide."

    What separates all of these outrageous preachers from Barack Obama's? You guessed it. They're white and Reverend Jeremiah Wright is not. If it's not racism that's causing the disparity in media treatment of these preachers, then what is it?

    I'm willing to listen to other possible explanations. And I am inclined to believe that the people these preachers go after are more important than the race of the preacher. It's one thing to go after gays, liberals and Muslims -- that seems to be perfectly acceptable in America -- it's another to accuse white folks of not living up to their ideals.

    I think there is another factor at play as well. The media is deathly afraid of calling out preachers of any stripe for insane propaganda from the pulpits for fear that they will be labeled as anti-Christian. But criticism of Rev. Wright falls into their comfort zone. It's easy to blame him for being anti-American because he criticizes American foreign and domestic policy.

    If Rev. Wright had preached about discriminating against gay Americans or Muslims, there probably would not have been any outcry at all. That falls into the category of "respect their hateful opinions because they cloak themselves in the church."

    But one thing is indisputable -- the enormous disparity in how the media has covered these white preachers as opposed to Rev. Wright. Have you ever even heard of Rod Parsley? As you can see from what I listed above, all of these white preachers have said and done the most outlandish and offensive things you can imagine -- and hardly a peep.


    If the disparity in coverage isn't racist, then what is it?
    Huffington

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    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Nice.....but the question is can W.C. spot the real racists?
    Dan, the racist is the one who believes his race is superior than others. Therefore, only the Mormon past ban on blacks, and some of the other religious points are racist.

    Several of the points you brought up are allegations rather than fact, and if you remember, I have always opposed "organized religion."

    Wrights points are not racist, but are racial. They are also hateful and bigoted. He is the leader of a hate group under the guise of a church. There is no place for these types of remarks in Christianity. At least the Mormon view isn't based on hate, but on a particular biblical interpretation, as ignorant as it is. Ignorance isn't as dangerous as hate speech.

    All of the below are forms of bigotry, how many of you all fit at least one category? I removed some less common ones to reduce the size:

    Anti-Americanism
    Anti-Catholicism
    Anti-Mormonism
    Anti-Polish sentiment
    Anti-Protestantism
    Anti-Semitism
    Chauvinism
    Classism
    Discrimination
    Hate group
    phobia
    Islamophobia
    Misandry
    Misogyny
    Narcissism
    Nazism
    Racism
    Religious persecution
    Religious intolerance
    Reverse Discrimination
    Scientology
    Sectarianism
    Sexism
    Stereotype
    Supremacism
    Xenophobia

    Now you have to remember. The only reason why Wright is getting so much attention is because he was Obama's mentor for 20 years. It is rightfully assumed that this mans bigoted viewpoints are engrained into Obama. The mention of Giuliani's priest isn't so relevant. Has he claimed him to be a mentor? Are the facts complete? The words in the article are "accused" therefore there is no verdict. Wright's words are very clear. He speaks out against America as an oppressor.

  6. #6
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    The Media Needs to Fess Up to Its Mess and Its Responsibility: Time for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights to Take a Look

    Yesterday's speech by Barack Obama was extraordinary. Yet there are those who believe it will cost Obama the presidency, if not the nomination. And if the media continues to have its way, I fear it will.

    In my 20 years in political life I have never quite seen, much less read, a speech by a political figure less calculated to please or pander. It was a tour de force in passion, but passion from within not designed to evoke passion from without. It was somber, uplifting, scolding, challenging, and defiant, all at the same time.

    As a member of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, a federal agency whose mission in recent years has been largely forgotten (if news coverage of these issues is any measure), it was an eye-opening moment not only about the future of our politics, but about the need to sternly examine the role of the 4th estate in helping achieve "a more perfect union."

    In its 50 year history the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has never questioned the role of the news media on the journalistic equivalent of the who, what, where, why, when, and how in terms of choosing to report on race. We have questioned, sometimes under subpoena, officials partaking in corrupt voter schemes; officials out of compliance with the mandates of Brown and federal civil rights laws. But never, in our 50 years, have we asked the media what they believe their role has been and continues to be in shaping the entire question of race in this country for their audience, the American people.

    Make no mistake; race was always the elephant in the room in American politics. And in this election, it is a mega-elephant. Until Obama's candidacy became viable, it was easy to ignore, pretend that it wasn't there, a non-factor until he became a factor. Then slowly, inexorably, perhaps even spurred on by parodies on "SNL", the media began to rise up and chip away at him on issues or race. News media began worrying about the "racial divide," exit polls tracked black-brown-white voting patterns, and experts were brought in to analyze what it all meant.

    Now how the media covers race is the 45-foot long raptor sitting next to the elephant in the room. Will the raptor simply slash away at the elephant for the political equivalent of a cage match? Will there be thoughtful discussion, or will You Tube tapes of Pastor Wright available to serve as "video wallpaper" simply be used to re-fuel the issue on slow news days?

    It's quite a crowded and noisy room. And the today's media provides all the filters.

    As we see in the few Commission hearings that the Bush administration wishes wouldn't happen, race is, and continues to be, an issue that will not go away. Any understanding of the plight of migrant field hands, sweatshop workers, and drop-out rates of inner-city kids, continuing efforts to suppress minority voting, and the growing racial and class divide between the boardrooms and the mailroom shows just how much our nation has failed in achieving a truly "equal" society. But don't just trust my word on this. A quick perusal of the blog comments made in reaction to Obama's speech is enough to validate the notion that racism is alive and well in our country.

    But Obama is running for President, and the cardinal rule of Presidential politics is that victory is an additive, not subtractive process, and race is a four-letter word that loses votes. Yet, despite this maxim, his speech was not overtly calculated to stop white flight from his campaign. There were no pandering lines, such as "I am not, and never will be, a card-carrying Muslim" or "Pastor Wright is no longer a friend, I reject his support, and I hope that the devil carries him away." To the contrary, Obama stayed true to his message of inclusiveness. More importantly -- and perhaps most dangerously -- Obama challenged the American public about his candidacy, and essentially said, "I'm black, you can get over it and join me because many others have voted for me because I'm the best leader for America, or you can choose not to get over it and vote against me because I'm black. You can choose to listen to me and understand that who I am, what I am, is part of the black American experience, but it does not solely define what I stand for and what I want to accomplish for America. Or, because I'm black, you can tune me out. Now let me tell you what I want to do for America, and let your hand on the "mute" button determine whether you have an open or closed mind."

    That is what made this speech an extraordinary profile in courage and relegates people like Pennsylvania Governor Rendell (who said that 5% of his victory over Lynn Swann was attributable to people "whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate") to, well, just a profile.


    Ultimately the success of this speech will be measured by whether Obama wins or loses, whether he is able to move on and get his message out or whether he his opponents and the media succeed in miring him in the issue of race. As he said in his speech, "[w]e can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism . . . . Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time."

    As noted, I think it is time for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights to hold a first hearing on the role of the media with respect to race relations, coverage of race, and, ultimately, its responsibility on the issue of race.

    I ask this because the power of the press is still undeniably powerful. Publishers, editors, and advertisers decide how many minutes or column inches, whether it is buried on page A-25 or after the sports break. Polls show that white voters had more definite negative feelings about Obama immediately after the weekend Pastor Wright double features that ran all over the media. Katrina victims or the Jena 6 seem to get less coverage than OJ's latest Vegas adventures.

    In the larger context of an African American presidential candidate, race becomes the chum for conflict to whip news desks into a frenzy. It makes one wonder whether if Governor Rendell were black, would his statement on white voters have gone as unnoticed as it has by the national media? Race, in this election more than any in my memory, seems to be the "gotcha" factor that creates news leads.

    Perhaps the news media can realize that the quality of the candidate should be judged by his words, and his positions. Perhaps the news media can also say that on the issue of covering this Presidential election with a race angle - "not this time." Ultimately, the hearts of individual Americans will decide that issue. Does the media need to fan the flames with endless talking heads and extremists on all sides who don't represent the average American?


    Dare I believe in the audacity of hope on this topic?
    Huff

  7. #7
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    Dan, the racist is the one who believes his race is superior than others. Therefore, only the Mormon past ban on blacks, and some of the other religious points are racist.

    Several of the points you brought up are allegations rather than fact, and if you remember, I have always opposed "organized religion."

    Wrights points are not racist, but are racial. They are also hateful and bigoted. He is the leader of a hate group under the guise of a church. There is no place for these types of remarks in Christianity. At least the Mormon view isn't based on hate, but on a particular biblical interpretation, as ignorant as it is. Ignorance isn't as dangerous as hate speech.

    All of the below are forms of bigotry, how many of you all fit at least one category? I removed some less common ones to reduce the size:

    Anti-Americanism
    Anti-Catholicism
    Anti-Mormonism
    Anti-Polish sentiment
    Anti-Protestantism
    Anti-Semitism
    Chauvinism
    Classism
    Discrimination
    Hate group
    phobia
    Islamophobia
    Misandry
    Misogyny
    Narcissism
    Nazism
    Racism
    Religious persecution
    Religious intolerance
    Reverse Discrimination
    Scientology
    Sectarianism
    Sexism
    Stereotype
    Supremacism
    Xenophobia

    Now you have to remember. The only reason why Wright is getting so much attention is because he was Obama's mentor for 20 years. It is rightfully assumed that this mans bigoted viewpoints are engrained into Obama. The mention of Giuliani's priest isn't so relevant. Has he claimed him to be a mentor? Are the facts complete? The words in the article are "accused" therefore there is no verdict. Wright's words are very clear. He speaks out against America as an oppressor.
    How are Wright's comments classified as hate speech or bigotry?

  8. #8
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Anyone who watches the full video can see for themselves that Wright was speaking about a white guest on FAUX News, paraphrasing if you will, the absurdity of the position the guests and hosts were taking....

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    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Anyone who watches the full video can see for themselves that Wright was speaking about a white guest on FAUX News, paraphrasing if you will, the absurdity of the position the guests and hosts were taking....
    Problem is Dan, that is one clip of many. Have you reviewed all the different clips?

    This man clearly hates!

  10. #10
    Wisconsin Spurs Fan Dre_7's Avatar
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    Wow. Watching the sermon for longer than the few seconds they show on TV makes it much more clear as to what Pastor Wright was saying.

    FOX ed up with that clip. Completely out of context.

  11. #11
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    How are Wright's comments classified as hate speech or bigotry?
    You haven't seen very many, have you.

    That clip is very tame compared to some of his other ones. If you're interested, you can find them. I have better things to do than find links for them.

  12. #12
    Marilyn Rae Lover jochhejaam's Avatar
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    his speech was not overtly calculated to stop white flight from his campaign. There were no pandering lines, such as "I am not, and never will be, a card-carrying Muslim" or "Pastor Wright is no longer a friend, I reject his support, and I hope that the devil carries him away."
    Yaki lost me with that hyperbole.

    If you want to keep an audience, keep it real.

  13. #13
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    Like I said. Rev. Wright does not teach the Gospel of hate. Fox news does. All other media outlets are not news leaders, they are ratings seekers.

    Those who know, are in the know. Those who do not, react and follow irrationally.

  14. #14
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    It's just part of giving balance Dan.

    Any time a republican or white's work can be misconstrued to be a racist remark, it is reported to death. This is just balance. Showing the blacks what us whites have to deal with.

    It has also been well reported by Fox and conservative programming he was talking about the past sins. Still, his words do foster hatred rather than love. There is no defense of him, nor for Obama, calling this man a "mentor."

    The apparent truth is that Obama either feels the same way, or simply used the powerful black message of the church for political gain. Either way, it shows a side of Obama that wasn't well known before.

    FYI. I've even called him a racist, however, nobody called me on my misuse of the word. Truth is, few people know the subtle differences between prejudice, racism, racialism, bigotry, etc.

    Now remember how the liberals want to legislate hate crimes. "If it APPEARS to be hateful" is a common phrase. Such idiocy is why conservative reject so-called equal rights legislation. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. Now consider this. Regardless what the verbatim and meaning of Wright's words, he appears to be a racist. What's wrong with us conservatives turning around liberal definitions and using them against them?
    The point of the sermon was the the "cycle of violence begets violence".

    I agree with that.

    A war of ideas will not be won by killing.

  15. #15
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    I thought it was actually a pretty damn good sermon, with a good human message. He's a really engaging pastor, actually, and I think if my former pastor had been as engaging, the church I used to attend (because of my school) wouldn't have the attendance problem it has now. That said, my former pastor was/is a good-hearted man. The mythical beliefs are just stupid.

  16. #16
    What's the Word? Don Quixote's Avatar
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    Hmm ... decent points here. However, I am curious to know how and to what extent the famous YouTube clips of J. Wright represent what he actually says, believes, and teaches. Are the clips have all been lifted from their context, and he is actually an orthodox, not overly leftist preacher, who has just been misunderstood? Or is he actually preaching from a far left perspective?

    Either way, my main problem with his preaching (not just him, but a large part of the church, both black and white) is somewhat bigger than politics. To put it in a very small nuts , much of contemporary preaching is not focused on Christ. Too much of it neglects the overall theme of scripture, and the person of Christ, and tends to focus on one thing -- prosperity, healing, tongues, end times, political issues, social justice, etc. Not that these things ought not to be addressed from the pulpit, but the Gospel has some aspects that many preachers hardly touch -- repentance, regeneration, sanctification are three important ones.

    Lastly, I'm not sure I would list Pat Robertson, Rod Parsley, or John Hagee as leading evangelical leaders. All three, besides being somewhat kooky, represent the dominionist view of church-state relations: that America was founded by God to be God's own nation. Alot of people might be surprised, but those three have little or no influence among Christians who are halfway learned or mature in their faith. I'm a conservative follower of Jesus and don't particularly care what they say or do, so long as they don't embarass the church or drag Christ's name through the mud (Benny Hinn and Parsley are known for this). So attacking their endorsement of McCain is a bit of a straw man.

    Now ... if McCain were to get endorsements from ... I dunno ... Richard Land, O.S. Hawkins (a Brit, nevermind), Billy Graham, or some other giant of the faith, that would carry more weight.

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    Not to start a new thread.

    Here's a story about McCain's "spiritual guide", a white extreme hate preacher:

    http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/80436/

    Anybody here not voting for McCain because of his embrace of Parsley? Didn't think so.

  18. #18
    A VERY BAD man
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    pimpin' obama ...

  19. #19
    What's the Word? Don Quixote's Avatar
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    Not to start a new thread.

    Here's a story about McCain's "spiritual guide", a white extreme hate preacher:

    http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/80436/

    Anybody here not voting for McCain because of his embrace of Parsley? Didn't think so.
    Hmm. A couple of things to say in response to the article.

    (1) Alternet is not known as an unbiased source of political information. Judging from their columnists, they seem pretty far-out there (e.g., Robert Scheer, et al). And who is the author of the piece? He doesn't appear to be anybody special, and it's an opinion piece anyway.

    (2) But I don't want to resort to an ad hominem attack. The piece talks about Parsley, who everyone, right and left, agrees is a kook. But I don't see anything racist about his message, at least not anything geared against blacks. Indeed, one of his arguments against abortion is that it disproportionately affects black babies. As for his comments about Islam, I would concur that his church-state views and his tact need some serious work.

    Like I said, Parsley has almost no influence among evangelicals with any education or spiritual maturity. And, not to be flippant, I'm not jumping out of my seat in anger over his "deep association" with McCain just because some blogger at a left-wing site says so. Give me a real news article linking the two and I'd be more inclined to believe it.

    Pax ...
    Last edited by Don Quixote; 03-21-2008 at 11:32 PM. Reason: needed to clarify

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    "Like I said, Parsley has almost no influence among evangelicals"

    the point is that McCain embraces Parsley as McCain's guide. He also embraces Hagee. No problem for McCain, no black people involved.

  21. #21
    "Have to check the film" PixelPusher's Avatar
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    another angry black preacher
    "God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place...[God will say:] And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

    - Dr. Martin Luther King

  22. #22
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    I thought it was actually a pretty damn good sermon, with a good human message. He's a really engaging pastor, actually, and I think if my former pastor had been as engaging, the church I used to attend (because of my school) wouldn't have the attendance problem it has now. That said, my former pastor was/is a good-hearted man. The mythical beliefs are just stupid.
    I guess you could say the same for old Hitler and Castro.
    Very engaging, good talkers and always a human message.


  23. #23
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Got to hand it to you dan, only you could come up with Fox News
    as the bad guy and Wright as the mis-understood good guy.
    Might want to try it somewhere else, I'm not buying it.

  24. #24
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Got to hand it to you dan, only you could come up with Fox News
    as the bad guy and Wright as the mis-understood good guy.
    Might want to try it somewhere else, I'm not buying it.
    shocking that a 110 year old white guy from texas isn't buying it.

    shocking

  25. #25
    What's the Word? Don Quixote's Avatar
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    the point is that McCain embraces Parsley as McCain's guide. He also embraces Hagee. No problem for McCain, no black people involved.
    And here's mine: give me a legit news story that links the two (or three), and I'd be more inclined to believe it. Look, the MSM most certainly wants Obama or Hillary in the White House in 08, and if they saw a shred of anything with this allegation, I am sure they would run with it. But all we have, so far, is words from an obscure blogger from a lefty blog. I'm open to the idea -- just give us a real source!

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