Why aren't the Spurs better?

[Nikos]

This is a direct spin off of the Manu MVP thread and postings with timvp.

PER is not exactly full proof of course, but even if I were to look at simple box score stats and from watching games and try to figure out why the Spurs aren't successful as the Celtics in regular season terms -- I still find myself confounded.

Yeah the Celtics might not be bored like the Spurs, but the teams are eerily similiar in terms of construction, talent, and potential on both ends of the court. Where the Celtics have energy, the Spurs have chemistry to subdue boredom and old age somewhat. And yeah, the Spurs do play in a tough conference. But the Spurs haven't had too many serious injuries to the big 3 + Bowen. Small injuries and old age for guys like Barry and Horry might hurt the teams depth -- but the team still should have won above 60 this season.

They aren't even as good as the Celtics on defense, the area where the team was historically elite statistically and this season they have slipped a bit. The big three is as good as ever in terms of realizing their offensive potential, and yet the team isn't even really a Top 10 offensive team this season. Of course this might change, but it is frustrating to see them underachieve. Makes you wonder if they could beat a team like Boston or the best in the West especially if on the road.

Assuming KG and Duncan are roughly equal in terms of value to their teams and overall superstar dominance factoring both ends of the court....are Pierce and Allen really playing any better overall then Manu + Tony. Is Rondo and the rest of the supporting cast really better than the Spurs supporting cast with Bowen being the defensive leader?

Why aren't the Spurs playing better aside from maybe being a little bored and being in a tough Western conference. Just unlucky this season? Are the role players really underachieving? Maybe Garnett is making the role players better moreso than Duncan is?

Are the Spurs just unlucky and bored? I would feel much more comfortable if they had homecourt in the West.....

[timvp]

Why aren't the Spurs playing better aside from maybe being a little bored and being in a tough Western conference.

Like I said in the other thread, the Spurs would have a much better record if they didn't have four championships under their belt. If the roles were reversed and the Celtics had four championships with that group and the Spurs were the desperate up and comers, the records would be reversed. There's nothing more that needs to add to the equation. Cruising during the regular season can cost great teams 10-12 losses easily.

The Spurs have nothing to play for in the regular season. The middle months of the season are basically a matter of just trying to stay healthy and awake enough to not go into too big of a skid. Look at this season. The Spurs have been horrible for weeks on end and now they still basically control their own destiny in terms of the first seed

The Celtics on the other hand are playing every game like it's the seventh game of the Finals. They have three desperate stars who know that this could be their last chance at a championship.

On the desperation meter, the Celtics are at like a 99 or 100. The Spurs spent most of the year at about a 2 until picking it up to about 8 recently.





P.S.

And like I said in the other thread, the Celtics have to be the heavy favorite for the championship right now. They'll probably only have one tough series in the East, while the Spurs would have to play three brutal series to even get the opportunity to get to the Finals.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs are quite good.

[CubanMustGo]

Why aren't the "Spurs aren't all that" threads better?

[Solid D]

In one way, they aren't better because they are still slow on their baseline help D.

Otherwise, they are better than in past seasons in their FT shooting. The Spurs' 4 Wings are rebounding much better than they have in recent memory. They are a fairly physical bunch while still not fouling very often...smart-physical, not stupid-physical. Their TOs are fairly low. The 2nd unit's movement, passing, reversals, sync with each other, etc. is quite good now.

Even Tony Parker's English is improving year-over-year. He says "I'm excited" now, instead of "I'm exciting".

There is lot to be excited about the San Antonio Spurs and their improvements!

[DAF86]

merge please

stop with this "merge" bull , let people say what they think. if you don't agree post your thoughts and have a civilized discussion.

[td4mvp21]

Even Tony Parker's English is improving year-over-year. He says "I'm excited" now, instead of "I'm exciting".

[TwoHandJam]

I think what timvp says makes a lot of sense. I would say the biggest other factors aside from the Spurs being in cruising mode and the injuries they had early on would be the difference in conferences.

The west is just so much better than the east this year it's sick. Boston only has one peer in the east - Detroit. No one else in the east really comes close.

On another note, does anyone think the Spurs are trapping a lot more this year with their defense? I find they're bringing a double far more often than they used to and they're also trapping players that often don't warrant a double team.

I think this has hurt them against the elite teams that know how to swing the ball and find the open man. Also, this trapping style of D forces players to rotate quickly to cover other open players. I find this can hurt us sometimes given the age of our team. Some guys just don't have the speed to do this effectively on a consistent basis.

[lefty]

Even Tony Parker's English is improving year-over-year. He says "I'm excited" now, instead of "I'm exciting".

"Unbelievable, unbeliavable"

[Cry Havoc]

The Spurs play year-round in the West, as well, which is full of power teams that inflict more wear and tear as the season goes on. Having to play nearly every night against a 50 win team means you're going to lose some games that you could have won most years in a weaker conference.

[spursfan09]

"Unbelievable, unbeliavable"

I was jus bein agressive, you know?

[SAGambler]

The reason the Spurs don't have as good or even better record than the Celts is because for the most part Michael Finley and Robert Horry have played like the majority of the season.

Now that Finley seems to have been revived from the grave, maybe he will take Horrys spot in not playing until late spring. Horry I think is probably done and will be a nonfactor in this years run. However, if Fin will keep playing like the has the past 4 or 5 games, no team is going to have an easy time with the Spurs.

Think back..How many times has Finley put up 10 - 12 bricks and the Spurs lose by 5 or 6 points. If he is hitting those shots, Spurs win, and have as good a record probably as Celts and would be way ahead in the West.

[Jimcs50]

Like I said in the other thread, the Spurs would have a much better record if they didn't have four championships under their belt. If the roles were reversed and the Celtics had four championships with that group and the Spurs were the desperate up and comers, the records would be reversed. There's nothing more that needs to add to the equation. Cruising during the regular season can cost great teams 10-12 losses easily.

The Spurs have nothing to play for in the regular season. The middle months of the season are basically a matter of just trying to stay healthy and awake enough to not go into too big of a skid. Look at this season. The Spurs have been horrible for weeks on end and now they still basically control their own destiny in terms of the first seed

The Celtics on the other hand are playing every game like it's the seventh game of the Finals. They have three desperate stars who know that this could be their last chance at a championship.

On the desperation meter, the Celtics are at like a 99 or 100. The Spurs spent most of the year at about a 2 until picking it up to about 8 recently.





P.S.

And like I said in the other thread, the Celtics have to be the heavy favorite for the championship right now. They'll probably only have one tough series in the East, while the Spurs would have to play three brutal series to even get the opportunity to get to the Finals.

The Celtics are last years Mavs, they are trying to prove something every game, and the regular season has been their proving ground.

I really think that Detroit will come out of the East.

[diego]

keep in mind that on top of being less hungry/desperate, we also have an older team that doesnt have as much energy for the 82 game grind of back 2 backs etc.

also, most of the worst offensive teams in the league are out east, and the entire top 5 is out west. that is obviously going to help the celts defensive stats, and hinder ours. as it stands we are 13th on O and 3rd on D, while they are 9th on O and 1st on D (per knickerblogger.net). its really not that big of a difference IMO

[WalterBenitez]

The Celtics are last years Mavs, they are trying to prove something every game, and the regular season has been their proving ground.

I really think that Detroit will come out of the East.

that would be sweat

[TwoHandJam]

that would be sweet

fixed.

[JamStone]

Pretty much a combination of things. Earlier in the season, there were several injuries to the Spurs main three, which obviously had to do with several losses, especially in December. Add to that some championship malaise, and the Spurs did not have as strong a start as they could have. Meanwhile, injuries to role players added to the problem, as well as old age catching up to guys like Robert Horry, Bruce Bowen, and Michael Finley. Spurs definitely need to get younger and more athletic.

While the regular season doesn't mean nearly as much to the Spurs as it does to a team like the Celtics, there are still concerns. Most notably is the 1-6 slide recently in the second half of the season when the Spurs traditionaly switch gears and turn it up a level. Even more so than previous seasons, in a hotly contested Western Conference, the 1-6 stretch was not only uncharacteristic, but worrisome.

The Spurs still are right there at or near the top of the Western Conference and have a very good chance at finishing in the top 3 by season's end. But, there are definite concerns as they go into the playoffs in an ultra compe ive West and into an off-season where several changes appear necessary.

There are a bunch of different reasons why the Spurs aren't better than they are, at least as it is reflected in their record. But, then again, they will ultimately be judged by what happens in the post season.

[hater]

I am actually shocked Spurs are at top of the West. Spurs have been playing like , blowing leads left and right. Our offense has been terrible all season. Defense is worst defense for Spurs in years. We have old players. That plus the compe ion is toughest it has been in the last 10 years.

I am utterly shocked Spurs are on top. But I'll take it. Especially since they are showing some signs that they are going to be in playoff shape soon.

[DazedAndConfused]

A lot of it has to do with injuries and mid-season trades. The Lakers would prob. have a comfortable lead at the #1 spot if Bynum/Gasol/Ariza had not gone down. PHX had an adjustment period with Shaq where they lost a ton of games. Same with DAL, who is now sliding even more with Dirk being out. And same with HOU who lost Yao Ming and are now starting to fall back to earth.

The Spurs have been very fortunate as far as injuries go actually. They are one of the few WC teams that is completely healthy at this point, and that will no doubt be a key advantage they have over many teams coming into the post season.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Pretty much a combination of things. Earlier in the season, there were several injuries to the Spurs main three, which obviously had to do with several losses, especially in December. Add to that some championship malaise, and the Spurs did not have as strong a start as they could have. Meanwhile, injuries to role players added to the problem, as well as old age catching up to guys like Robert Horry, Bruce Bowen, and Michael Finley. Spurs definitely need to get younger and more athletic.

While the regular season doesn't mean nearly as much to the Spurs as it does to a team like the Celtics, there are still concerns. Most notably is the 1-6 slide recently in the second half of the season when the Spurs traditionaly switch gears and turn it up a level. Even more so than previous seasons, in a hotly contested Western Conference, the 1-6 stretch was not only uncharacteristic, but worrisome.

The Spurs still are right there at or near the top of the Western Conference and have a very good chance at finishing in the top 3 by season's end. But, there are definite concerns as they go into the playoffs in an ultra compe ive West and into an off-season where several changes appear necessary.

There are a bunch of different reasons why the Spurs aren't better than they are, at least as it is reflected in their record. But, then again, they will ultimately be judged by what happens in the post season.

I agree but Bruce Bowen is a freak of nature. I have been waiting for him to show signs of slowing down, and thankfully that hasn't happened. Bruce is still the best perimeter defender in the league. Is he old in terms of being an athlete playing Basketball yes, but he still has gas in the tank but for how long I don't know.