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Um, what?
With Donnie Walsh now the head honcho in the Knicks organization, in my opinion, they now have a combination of one of the best GM's in the NBA (who has been given huge concessions) as well as still retaining the best evaluator of draft day talent out there in Isiah Thomas.
I believe that with the addition of a quality coach, and some house cleaning, the Knicks have a great chance at regaining prominence within the next 2 seasons.
What are your thoughts?
Um, what?
He's one of the best, if not the best. I'd hire him as director of scouting for sure.
Tracy McGrady
Damon Stodamire
David Lee
Channing Frye
Marcus Camby
The record speaks for itself.
When you have a top 10 pick every year you're going to hit on more than a few.
How about drafting mid-2nd round talent with the 20th pick in the draft in 06?
T-Mac was drafted in the "let's get a high school kid!" frenzy. Camby didn't blossom until Isiah was long gone. David Lee & Frye are nice 20 minute a game guys but let's not make them out to be badasses. Picking Damon Stoudamire is nothing to brag about because everybody who had that draft pick was going to take Stoudamire.
And if he's such a great draft talent evaluator why did he trade out of the 07 draft for Eddy Curry?
Curry is a fantastic talent. just lazy and terrible coaching.
I know that.
But if you're a great draft talent evaluator, you trade yourself OUT of the Durant/Oden sweepstakes?
I can't argue that. I just can't blame him for wanting Curry either, has he had proven that he was more than capable of being a major force at the NBA level, and is one of the best post players the game has.
The Knicks needed a defensive minded small forward. What small forward after Balkman would have been better in that draft?
Isiah also identified James Jones and Trevor Ariza in the second round, David Lee with the last pick of the first round in a thin draft, was criticized for taking Channing Frye as high as he did but turned out to be approximately where he should have been drafted in that draft, Jamaal Tinsley with the second to last draft pick in 2001. He was also one of the driving forces to acquire Jermaine O'Neal before Jermaine O'Neal had star status.
Isiah is a very good evaluator of talent. I don't know if he's the best in the NBA, but he's very good. He mostly relies his evaluation on athletic ability first then skill second then other intangibles after that, and that's why he's generally solid in evaluating talent. Athleticism generally succeeds over just mere skill in the NBA.
That was two years after the Curry trade (summer 2005), before Durant and Oden were even in college and cemented themselves as the best prospects in 2007, and before either were assuredly going to declare for the 2007 draft. It is also a moot point since that Knicks pick in the "Durant/Oden sweepstakes" ended up being the 9th pick, Joakim Noah.
There seem to be plenty of GM's who get 1st rounder after 1st rounder and blow it more than 50% of the time.
People generally hated IT's picks... yet every single one of them has been, at the very least, a serviceable NBA player, and at best, the scoring champion/DPOY.
Well Balkman isn't exactly good right now, but that's niether here nor there. The fact that nobody was even thinking of this guy being a 1st round pick means that Isiah obviously didn't evaluate the talent in that draft too well. He could have gotten a 1st round player and then traded up in the 2nd round to get Balkman. If he didn't think anybody was worth taking in the 1st round, then trade the pick away.
That's like the Cowboys taking Quincy Carter in the 2nd round when he was evaluated as a 4th/5th round talent.
people were talking about Greg Oden when he was a junior in HS.
Because he is a sucky GM, hence him being replaced by Walsh. Kind of like Checks and Balances...
I never said they were badasses, but they are still in the NBA, and more than just scrubs.
Just like 90% of NBA GMs and draft experts had Darko Milicic a top 3 prospect in 2003.
Missing the point because it wasn't certain Oden was going to be in the 2007 draft, certainly not in the summer of 2005.
so Renaldo Balkman with the 20th pick in the draft was the right pick?
knowing that no other NBA GM has this guy on the radar until the early-to-mid 2nd round, you think taking Balkman with the 20th pick was a smart idea?
Compare those draft picks to players selected before and after they were.
He didn't trade out of the 2007 Oden/Durant sweepstakes with the Curry trade. If you actually remembered the trade, you would recall that the trade involved a right for Chicago to swap picks in the 2007 draft. It did not outright give the Bulls the Knicks draft pick because they couldn't trade consecutive future first round draft picks under the CBA. Isiah's stubbornness would not allow him to believe the Knicks would be a lottery team in 2007, therefore that pick was assumed to be a middle of the first round pick, not a lottery pick or a chance to select Oden or Durant.
No right or wrong pick when you're that late in the first round. By that selection, all the sure fire picks are gone in the high lottery. It's about finding a diamond in the rough or a player that fits what you're looking for. Was it the right pick? Not necessarily. Was it the wrong pick? Not necessarily. The only player that you could argue turned out better in that draft is Rajon Rondo, and with Marbury, Francis, and Nate Robinson on the roster at the time, a point guard was not the way to go. Who else would have been a better selection in that draft?
If you can't answer that question then you trade out of the pick. You don't take a 2nd rounder.
Again, that has to do with his GMing abilities... With the (theoretical) separation of powers, assuming IT will continue as head scout, this problem should be alleviated.
Reports were that the Knicks tried to trade the pick but there were no takers. The Knicks couldn't get value from the trade and they liked Balkman. They took Balkman. He was a projected second round pick. But, looking back at that draft, that's about where he should have been picked. So who's right and who's wrong? Again, most people, NBA GM's, scouts and draft experts included, believed Darko was a top 3 prospect in 2003. Just because people regarded Balkman as a second round talent, it doesn't mean they were right.
You might want to take another look at Balkman before saying that.
I agree that just cuz he's regarded as a 2nd rounder doesn't mean he is. Paul Millsap was perceived as possibly going undrafted that year.
But the point is that Balkman's perceived value was that of a 2nd rounder. His value was set by NBA GM's as a 2nd round talent. So why waste a 1st round pick on him? If they couldn't trade out of the pick, why not take a flyer on one of those guys projected as a 1st round pick? 2nd round picks in the NBA are one of the cheapest commodities there are, you can easily move into the 2nd round for Balkman.
Because sometimes perceived second round talent becomes Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, or Manu Ginobili. If they re-draft those players from their respective drafts, are they still second round picks even though that's what most NBA GMs perceived them to be before the draft?
You're trying to force an argument that has little merit. At the end of the day, almost all draft picks in any particular draft are generally crap shoots after the top 3-5 picks. And, even the top 3-5 picks can end up being Darko or Kwame Brown or Olowokandi or Darius Miles or Marcus Fizer. There's no sure fire thing when it comes to gauging absolutely everything in a prospect, from talent and skill to mentality to character. Sometimes teams select projected second round talent in the first round because they just fit the team needs and the team's character. Jason Maxiell was a huge reach at #25 for the Pistons in 2005 because of his height, but he fit. Andrew Bynum was a huge reach for the Lakers at #10 in that same draft, but the Lakers wanted elite size at center and he may very well be that right fit. Kevin Martin was a second round talent in 2004, but was the type of scorer Geoff Petrie liked. Devean George was a huge reach for Jerry West at #23 in 1999, but he was exactly what they were looking for as a complimentary player at small forward. Same with Derek Fisher at #24 in 1996.
In the late first round, you rarely get starter type players, much less star players. It's a gamble whoever you take because the sure fire talent in most drafts is top 5, at the most top 10. So, taking a projected second round pick in the late first round is fine if he fits what your team is looking for or you're just hoping he's a diamond in the rough that might become a much, much better player than he is projected.
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