This is not a "Who is better thread," but we all know Jordan has been in a league of his own. No one has been able to live up to him (although the media have tried to push LeBron and Kobe to live up to him...but they can never live up to that man). But now, I am comparing Tim Duncan to Jordan. This is in terms of calibre.
Now, I don't want to talk about awards. Just skill.
Jordan average about 30 ppg career-wise, 2 steals per game, and 5 assists per game. He was a scorer who could also play defense (2 steals per game career-wise is fantastic). He was also a great leader and a very consistent player. Overall, I don't think he was a selfish player, but when the team needed him to take over, he would do so and that lead his team to 6 (probably 8 if he didn't retire the first time) championships.
Duncan averages 21 ppg, about 12 rebounds per game, and 2 blocks per game career-wise. Duncan is a very good scorer, but the difference is between him and Jordan (in this area), is that Duncan doesn't need to score all the points. He likes to get his teammates more involved (not saying Jordan doesn't, but Jordan does like to take over if he feels he needs to). Duncan has shown he's a good passer and although his assists stats doesn't show it (3 assist per game career-wise; only 2 under Jordan, the guard), if you watch Spurs game you'll see what a good passer Duncan is, especially when he attracts double teams which allows the Spurs guards to get open. Like Jordan, Duncan is a great leader and is very consistent. Also like Jordan, Duncan will step up and take control if necessary but that's only after trying to get his teammates involved. If his teammates aren't producing well, Duncan will definitely take it upon himself to take over. Because of this Duncan is able to lead his team to 4 (Injuries is what I believe prevented them from winning in 04' and 06') championships.
Also, we can't forget the lovely stat that states that the Spurs, since Duncan came on, has had the best winning percentage of any team in any sport.
Btw, I think some people don't appreciate consistency as much as they should. Consistency is a top factor that defines a great player. If you score 100 pts on a team, but then the next few games, you're scoring 10 or something, that's not consistent. The way to be a winning player is to go out every night and do the same thing over and over, never letting up. Duncan and Jordan are probably the best examples of this.
Jordan and Duncan are very similar in my opinion. My brother countered my argument is saying that Jordan is a guard and Duncan is a PF/C, so there is a big difference. Big men are expected to do certain things while Jordan went outside the box as a guard. I respect his argument but I think Duncan also went outside the box. He is a dominant big man, yes, but his presence and great decisions get consistent wins as he gets everyone else involved EVERY game.
Also, an interesting piece of information that a few of you may not notice is that, the Spurs don't really play seriously in the season. If you watch the games, you'll notice that there is a BIG change when the post-season begins as Duncan plays at his max in the playoffs (along with the rest of the Spurs). They play harder and smarter in the playoffs, so don't be so set on judging Duncan on his season stats as he has shown that he can probably increase those regular season stats anytime he wants to.
Anyway, that's enough of me babbling about. What do you guys think? Both are recognized as the best guard and best big man, but Jordan has been recognized as the best player. Do you think Jordan has to make room in his "best player ever" league for this humble giant?
It's so hard to compare the greatness of a shooting guard to that of a power forward. Both are the greatest of all time at their respective positions.
The thing is that when Jordan took over a game, you knew he was taking over the game. When Duncan takes over a game, he's a little less obvious about it, because his taking over a game gets a lot of other team mates involved.
The ball can be taken out of Tim's hands, and that was REAL ing difficult to do to MJ. We've already had a longer Finals run than the Bulls, though, nine years of contention and Finals bookends, so far.
Remember guys, this is not "Who's better?," this is "Can we now put Duncan and Jordan in the same league?," since we know that Jordan has been in a league of his own for so long.
if you were doing a 1st team all-time, i think it would be:
PG - Magic
SG - Michael
SF - Larry
PF - Tim
C - Wilt
I think that would put them in the same league and conversation.
Tim has yet to win back-to-back rings.
MJ had TWO three-peats. He got his 1st 3peat, retired for 2 years, came back and got another 3-peat. If he hadn't retired, he would have 8 straight championships. An 8-peat. Reminds you of the Bill Russel era. That's how great MJ was. There was just no discussion. Opposing teams would enter MJ's arena and even THEY knew how much better MJ was.
When MJ retired, players were asked if they would like MJ to come back. Most players were like 'NO!!!!!!' Dan Majerle is famous for saying "Nooooo, please dont come back again. Give others a chance to win"
Duncan on the other hand wins one every few years. Tim is best PF ever, but not MJ. Tim didn't even win MVP Finals last year....
This is the kind of post that doesn't belong here. You're looking at awards and not realizing the calibre of the players. Sorry to say this, but if you're going to post something like this, just stop.
I would put Bill Russell or Dream on that team before Wilt. That is not meant as a slight to Wilt, but I think with this team, Dream and Bill were better team players and better passers and defenders, thus would make the team a good as possible.
This thread is embarrassing.
Bird, Jordan, Magic and Wilt in the same squad?
Too much ego IMO although we might discuss.
I always wondered why can't you make comparisons because it is common to say it's no contest.
LIke Dave vs Dream - no contest, but wtf I want to compare those two guys will you let me?
And I think we can do it with every player in top15 all time.
The eras the guys they played with the guys they played against the cir stances of the playoffs runs etc.
tim duncan is not all about numbers
Russell certainly fits into that team better, but i was doing it more from a 1st Team All-NBA individual award standpoint as opposed to creating the actual best team possible.
I would put Kobe on that team before bird just because I don't think he would have any problem sliding him to 3 with Magic as a 1 and Duncan as a 4... with a traditional 5 in there too... talk about sick teams...
You want chemistry? Put David at 5... of course... kobe and jordan would kill each other... haha...
I can't believe no one has talked about Kareem at center... My all time team would be
Jordan
Kobe
Magic
Timmy
Kareem
When Duncan hit that 3, it reminded me that he is a basketball GOD and belongs up there with Jordan, Bird, etc.
So...am I supposed to be offended or something by this 4th grade flame? I mean c'mon, try a little harder next time. You can do better than that. Or maybe you can't...that would be unfortunate
Please explain this, I find your statement False
In Tim Duncan's Era
1999- Finals (Champions)
2000- 1st round exit
2001- Western Conference Finals exit
2002- 2nd round exit
2003- Finals (Champions)
2004- 2nd round exit
2005- Finals (Champions)
2006- 2nd round exit
2007- Finals (champions)
In Michael Jordan's Era
1985- First round exit
1986- First round exit
1987- First round exit
1988- 2nd round exit
1989- Eastern Conference Finals exit
1990- Eastern Conference Finals exit
1991- Finals (Champions)
1992- Finals (Champions)
1993- Finals (Champions)
1994- Did not play
1995- 2nd round exit
1996- Finals (Champions)
1997- Finals (Champions)
1998- Finals (Champions)
In 98 Spurs were also in the playoffs!
I'll take Duncan over MJ.
Duncan is more of a team player in a team sport.
MJ took several years to become a team player, Duncan was one right out of the blocks.
Duncan moves without the ball and sets screens better than anyone, like Bill Russell and Danny Manning (before his injury).
all-time team:
Duncan F
MJ SG
Kareem C
Magic PG
Bill Russell F
2nd team
Hakeem C/PF
Bird SF
Cousy PG
Wilt C/PF
Havlicek SG
3rd team
Shaq C
West G
Oscar G
Pet F
Karl Malone F
Can we wait and have this discussion after the playoffs are finished?
Timmy's lack of a repeat will always hurt him in G.O.A.T. (MJ, Magic, etc) comparisons but Timmy is the best Power Foward of all time.
did some1 really just say they would take td over mj
...there's a back-handed compliment. calling timmy the best but also counting the Spurs out this season in the same breath.
Well, I guess we fix that problem this year...
The answer is no.
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