I've read different account about who actually conceived the Shaq trade.
One report said it was D'Antoni's & Sarver's idea and they had to convince Kerr. Another account says that It was Sarver and Kerr who wanted the change and D'Antoni wasn't keen on the idea.
Anyone know the real score?
I don't know but Ludden is usually pretty credible and he probably knows Steve Kerr well from his days as a Spur.
The thing is...the stuff Steve Kerr is saying makes a lot of sense. But to me the things he is saying, about wanting a post presence and to improve defense, those things also sound like someone who would push for Shaq...so there does seem to be some conflicting information there.
I don't think either Kerr or D'Antoni will 'fess up specially now.. the only thing for certain is that they had Sarver's blessing.
Neither Kerr/Sarver nor D'Antoni will own up to their collossal mistake trading for Shaq. We will never find out, at least not while Shaq is still in Phoenix.
After reading this and seeing the picture of Tim and Shaq bumping fists I wondered if Shaq could ever be a Spur and how the city would react. He is a pretty likable guy.
We should take role for who thought that deal was going to kill the Spurs and who thought it was going to not mean a thing.
Here is me firmly in the "Won't mean " Camp.
I don't think the Shaq trade was a colossal mistake. The Suns were not getting past the Spurs or the Lakers or even Utah or New Orleans with Shawn Marion. It wasn't happening. Now, it wasn't the successful trade the Suns hoped for. But, the Suns weren't advancing with what they had before anyway. They just weren't. They took risks by trading for Shaq and it didn't work. I don't think it was a colossal mistake of a trade though.
And, I think all of them, Kerr, D'Antoni, and Sarver, were on board to trade for Shaq. It actually did make sense. I don't think any of them anticipated hack-a-Shaq would completely determine how the series would play out. I think all of them wanted the Shaq trade done. I don't think it matters who initially pushed for it. Plus, they wanted Marion out.
Unsuccessful trade? Sure. Colossal mistake? I don't agree with that.
Oh yeah, it was colossal. I think they mortgaged any future they possibly could have had with Marion. Shaq is old and expensive. I also dont think they would have lost 4-1 with Marion.....that may have gone 7. Colossal.
that. I don't want that fat piece of in Silver & Black. Especially not at this point in his career.
Jamstone is right...the Shaq trade wasn't a bad trade except in terms of capspace. Shaq played well and IMO their offense wasn't bogged down because of him.
Steve Nash did not play like Steve Nash in this series and it wasn't just due to the Spurs disrupting their offensive flow with hack-a-shaq.
I don't really think hack-a-shaq worked that well except in one game. In game 5 doing it actually allowed the Suns to come back and tie the game.
This series was about Steve Nash VS Tony Parker more than anything else.
And I think this series was closer with the Shaq trade than it would have been if they'd kept Marion(who usually played poorly against the Spurs).
There was no future with Marion either.
Sub Marion for Shaq and its a 10 point a game win 4 game sweep.And I think this series was closer with the Shaq trade than it would have been if they'd kept Marion(who usually played poorly against the Spurs).
Marion is the only guy I've seen who can somewhat guard Tony Parker. The series would have been a whole lot closer with him in there.
I don't know how you figure that....the worst the Suns ever did against us was when Marion was their second big...he averaged 7 points per game and at no point was that series in doubt...this one was much more difficult.
Marion was a perennial non-factor against us...with last year being the only time he had some degree of success...but that was because they had Kurt Thomas, and they wouldn't have had him this year. It's also because the Spurs no longer had enough respect for him to defend him with Bowen.
And this year before the Shaq trade the Suns didn't even belong on the same court with the Spurs...it was like the Spurs could beat them with one hand tied behind their back.
That wasn't the case in this series...this was a tough and hard fought series that was much closer than the 4-1 record indicates.
Whereas the 4-1 record from the 2005 playoffs isn't indicative of just how one sided that series was in favor of the Spurs.
People are seriously over-rating Shawn Marion, as he is not an impact player of any kind and wich the exception of some good moments in the 07 playoffs, he's been a huge non-factor against the Spurs regular season and post season.
The thing that I was surprised by when this trade happened (and that I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around) is that I have yet to see a report that says Sarver wasn't on board for this. In fact most say that he was a driving force behind it. For the last few seasons he's been dealing draft picks to avoid the guaranteed contracts plus the decision to move KT; by all accounts he's been pushing to cut costs. And then he turns around and pushes to pick up $40 mil worth of Shaq?
The scenario that makes the most sense to me would be Kerr and D'Antoni convincing him of the virtues rather than Sarver teaming up with one to pressure the other. Kerr wants defense, toughness, and post play, while D'Antoni is concerned about Marion poisoning chemistry. Now its rats on the sinking ship. And like a sinking ship, it's going to be tough to actually dig through the wreckage and find out what really happened.
I don't think they are going to think Shaq was the reason the Suns lost this series...he wasn't. At worst he wasn't enough to get them over the hump...
Steve Nash was the reason the Suns lost this series...he didn't play like Steve Nash....guy is 34 years old, and it showed.
That is also the A#1 problem facing the Suns this offseason. It also might be why D'antoni is getting out now, becuase the wheels are about to come off...whether they get a servicable backup PG or not.
It was the worst trade of the year at least. even much worse than Mavericks trade.
and it was definitely Kerr's decision because he said "im an idiot if this does not work" he would not say this if not his idea
The Mavericks also gave up two first round draft picks and lost DeSagana Diop in the process, which by itself isn't bad, but they do now need to get center depth armed with no first round pick as well as a young back-up point guard for the future. The Shaq trade had little risk because Marion was on the outs anyway. Only major problem making the Shaq trade was how much he costs.
Worse trade of the year? I wouldn't even say it was the worse trade Phoenix made this year. Sending Kurt Thomas to Seattle for cap space but also giving up a first round pick in the process was worse, in my opinion.
I'm not sure if the rationale for the Spurs was "if we get Thomas, then no one else can." If it was, it would be the first time that strategy has ever paid dividends, at least to my knowledge. It's worked great so far.
As far as facing the Spurs goes there is no doubt the trade did not work and they were better last year. Series was all tied at 2 with the suspensions for game 5 and we barely won that game. That series was likely going 7 games and headed back to Phoenix for game 7. This year we won a thriller game 1, won game 2 thanks to a great 2nd half, kicked their ass in game 3, laid down in game 4 and won a tight game 5. So as far as facing the Spurs goes Last years Suns clearly were better.
Mavs trade was awful as well. Kidd is totally washed up i was never blown away by him in his prime. I can't love a PG who can't shoot the ball and Kidd even in his prime was a mediocre shot.
Last year the Suns had Kurt Thomas...this year they had no one. They'd have done much worse against us had they met us in the post season, and if you look at the reagular season you will see this borne out...
The Spurs were whupping the Suns without even trying prior to the Shaq trade...they were just doing it in their sleep when the team wasn't even healthy and the contests between the teams weren't even compe ive.
This series was definitely closer than it would have been without the trade..
Shaq put up about 15, 9, and 3, he laid a bunch of bruises and welts on Tony and Manu, that they are still recovering from...
It's ludicrous to say he didn't play well in this seires, he did play well...which is why Pop wanted his ass of the court.
He played a of a lot better than Marion did the last time Marion was forced into playing big against the Spurs...Marion was the reason Suns lost in 05...the obvious #1 reason when he scored 7 points a game.
Last edited by whottt; 05-01-2008 at 02:03 PM.
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