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The grass always seems greener, until you get there. Marshall's deal expires at the end of the season so the motivation here is obviously a desire to move Lik's contract.
Pass.
We can only hope
Raptors' trade list almost half-dozen
Obvious who doesn't fit into team's future
Bab has string of clubs to talk to before Feb. 24
DOUG SMITH
SPORTS REPORTER
It's clear that Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, Aaron Williams and perhaps Eric Williams and even Milt Palacio are not in the long-term Raptor plans centred on turning the team into something more than mere playoff participants.
None are young enough, or under contract for long enough, or good enough, or interested enough in sticking around for the years that the process will take, so general manager Rob Bab has just 24 days now to start moving them and give coach Sam Mitc something better to work with.
And some of those moveable parts continue to attract great interest around the NBA, even from opposing players during games.
Marshall would unquestionably welcome a deal, although he has never publicly expressed a desire to be moved. But seeing his minutes yo-yo from one game to the next — a difficult role to accept for someone who thrives on consistent playing time — can be doing nothing to make him consider Toronto a long-term proposition.
The San Antonio Spurs have been added to the list of suitors for Marshall, offering backup big man Malik Rose in return. However, Rose has an untenable contract — three years and almost $20 million (all figures U.S.) — and lacks the athleticism Mitc wants.
The Heat remain strong suitors, strong enough that sources say players on the Miami team are mystified that Bab has refused all entreaties for Marshall so far and let the veteran Raptor know that during a game in Toronto last week.
But the Heat offers, which include journeyman backup centre Michael Doleac, has done nothing to catch Bab 's attention.
And if there's one trait the general manager has displayed more than any other since his arrival, it's patience.
He is likely to weigh any offer until much closer to the Feb.24 trade deadline before acting.
Murray, with one season remaining on his contract, will be in the same position a year from now that Marshall is in today, and there's no question he'll leave as a free agent as soon as he can.
He also doesn't have the speed, or enthusiasm, that Mitc wants and it's become apparent that young Matt Bonner is moving ahead of both Marshall and Murray in the rotation.
"Matt's been great for us," Mitc said recently.
"He's been a diamond in the rough."
Aaron Williams, who can opt out of his contract this summer, has become little more than a bit player, while Eric Williams has been a disappointment recently
The grass always seems greener, until you get there. Marshall's deal expires at the end of the season so the motivation here is obviously a desire to move Lik's contract.
Pass.
Pass? Why? Because you blindly love Malik?
Our only weakness is a long three, Donyell fills that role perfectly. His contract expires at the end of this year, which means he'd be incredibly focused to play in the post-season.
*And* we'd get Malik's bloated contract off our books.
This is a win-win-win for the Spurs, and the only ones who can't admit that are the ones who are overly enamored with a very undersized big man who used to hustle and play hard, but has forgotten how.
Pass because Donyell Marshall doesn't give you anything you can't get out of Horry already. Pass because your weakness in the frontcourt is that you have a starting center who is way too passive in the paint. Pass because the disruption is not needed. Pass because you might just need a bigman physical enough to play inside as well as fleet footed enough to play in the uptempo style the Spurs have become accustomed to.
Don't even start with the blind love kiddo. It's obvious you know very little about the game. But at least you did get the Spurs' cheapness correct.
Donyell is a very nice role player. On offense he can hit the open shot consistently. With Duncan and an overall unselfish passing team, Donyell could benefit with lots of open looks, and likely hit them.
Not sure how he would defend, but Donyell in general is a guy who scores well with someone else setting him up.
Right here is the problem with most posters in this forum. They evaluate a player solely on his jumpshot.
The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.
Frugal and discerning with how they spend their money, yes. Cheap, I don't think so.
Is anyone concerned about the affect on TD if Malik was sent down the river...so to speak? Aren't they fairly tight?
Horry cannot guard the Marions, Rashards, etc. of the league, don't even pretend he can.Pass because Donyell Marshall doesn't give you anything you can't get out of Horry already.
Are you implying Rose fits that qualification? We've got our physical big man, and he's seven inches taller (Massenberg), and even better he knows his role in the offense.Pass because you might just need a bigman physical enough to play inside as well as fleet footed enough to play in the uptempo style the Spurs have become accustomed to.
Malik is living off his legacy from garbage man play a few years back. The last two years has seen opponents' taller bench and starting big men easily throw aside Malik for boards or simply outjump him, and they don't even have to jump to block his shots on offense. No thanks.
Oh brother, don't even start with this one. What has Malik done for this team this year, besides maybe two good games, a bunch of turnovers, a bunch of shots thrown back in his face, and doing a good towel wave on the bench?Don't even start with the blind love kiddo. It's obvious you know very little about the game.
If by cheap you mean actually wanting to get some production for what they're paying, then call them cheap. I call it good business.The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.
BigVee, everyone said the same about Antonio. Tim wants to win first, and he's got his boys now (Manu and Tony). In case you hadn't noticed the past couple of games, the team is loving Marks out on the court, Tim's treating him like a little brother.
It's no secret that the Spurs brass would like to rid itself of the contract, but if Malik isn't contributing, or at least not up to the level that earned him the contract, then why not explore trades for someone else who could? You'd have a better argument if rumors started flying around that the Spurs were shopping Malik for nothing but an expiring contract. Marshall has one, but he also happens to bring a lot more to the table.The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.
AHF, I suppose you are right. Who knows he might be just as pissed about Malik screwing up as many others.
If Horry can't then Marshall certainly can't. Christ, if we are supposedly moving Malik because he's out of the rotation in Toronto Marshall is getting displaced by Matt ing Bonner.
No one is worse in the Spurs' offensive sets than Mass. Yes, Malik can provide a physical presence in the paint and he has done so when given the chance.Are you implying Rose fits that qualification? We've got our physical big man, and he's seven inches taller (Massenberg), and even better he knows his role in the offense.
He did it for 5 years and nothing has changed except for a contract that the team doesn't want. Again and again the argument for moving Rose ends up being about the contract. When will you small ing town homers stop believing that Peter Holt and all of his corporate buddies are some kind of small town bidnessmen just barely struggling to get by?Malik is living off his legacy from garbage man play a few years back. The last two years has seen opponents' taller bench and starting big men easily throw aside Malik for boards or simply outjump him, and they don't even have to jump to block his shots on offense. No thanks.
Oh little boy I am going to start and end this one with your dumb Aggie ass mopping up the floor.Oh brother, don't even start with this one. What has Malik done for this team this year, besides maybe two good games, a bunch of turnovers, a bunch of shots thrown back in his face, and doing a good towel wave on the bench?
Oh please. I've seen Horry and even old grizzled Massenburg up on a consistent basis. But they aren't the ones with the contract. Someone's gotta pay for TP and Manu getting those contracts and lo and behold if it isn't Malik Rose.
Nash and Nowitzki were friend and now they are both getting carrier year, far from each other.
I'm just waiting for the NBA Socrates over here, aka Sparky, to explain to me what Malik has done for this team this year. And please don't point to the 1-2 good games he's had this year, I think we paid him planning on him playing tough and smart and hustling more than once every 20 games.
Let's look at the matchup between Rose and Donyell
Height: Donyell (6'9" trumps 6'3"). I've watched countless opponents the last two years just jump/reach above Malik and get the rebound. No thanks.
Range: Each of the last two seasons Marshall has hit over 120 threes, and is on pace to do so again. Malik can reliably hit from about 17' (I'm gonna go with Marshall here).
Defense: Marshall. Teams post up their big men on Rose, who simply turn and shoot over him. Doesn't have the length to guard long threes, who simply shoot from outside on him when they're not taking him inside. Oh, and if you're keeping track at home, Marshall averaged about a block per game, compared to half that for Rose (and that's just career numbers, last season and this season Rose is averaging a combined .24 blocks per game - what a defensive monster!).
Rebounding: Marshall has a career average of 7.3 and has averaged more than 10 boards a game in two different seasons. Rose has a career avg. of 4.3 boards per game, with a career high of 6.3 (lower than Donyell's avg.) two years ago
Spurs fan sentimental value: Rose (not even good for a cup of coffee at the truck stop)
And I'll go out on a limb and say, seeings the organization makes the whole team do it, that Donyell can do just as much community service as Rose.
And the icing on the cake, Donyell makes 1 million less than Rose (despite more production in every statistical category - but you're right, the Spurs are cheap).
Sadly this is all for not, because Toronto isn't this stupid.
If you think nothing has changed you haven't been watching Spurs basketball for the last year and a half.He did it for 5 years and nothing has changed except for a contract that the team doesn't want. Again and again the argument for moving Rose ends up being about the contract.
Christ, even the likes of LJ, Shoogar Bear, etc. say Malik is sucking this year.
I'm done with this argument, the fact you think a 6'3" big man averaging .25 blocks a game, who's getting DNP-CDs behind a Kiwi with curly hair averaging two points a game, is great for both our offense and our defensive presence in the damn post, tells me all I need to know about your basketball a en, or lack thereof.
Question: If the Spurs really hated Malik because of his contract, don't you think they'd be playing him to try and get his value up for a trade?
Malik's dug his own hole on this one, it's just gotten deeper, and no amount of shoveling by you and Spursgal is gonna change that.
I know this argument's over, it wouldn't be if you weren't trying to bring in my school as some half assed personal attack to try and prove you have a point (which you don't).
Good day.
he hasn't gotten a chance to do anything for this team over the last couple of seasons thanks to the Spurs burning desire to move his contract.
Here we go. Lil' Aggie goes by height to evaluate a player. First sign of a basketball ignoramus.Let's look at the matchup between Rose and Donyell
Height: Donyell (6'9" trumps 6'3"). I've watched countless opponents the last two years just jump/reach above Malik and get the rebound. No thanks.
Next sign: Jumpshot.Range: Each of the last two seasons Marshall has hit over 120 threes, and is on pace to do so again. Malik can reliably hit from about 17' (I'm gonna go with Marshall here).
Next: Using block shots to evaluate defensive ability.Defense: Marshall. Teams post up their big men on Rose, who simply turn and shoot over him. Doesn't have the length to guard long threes, who simply shoot from outside on him when they're not taking him inside. Oh, and if you're keeping track at home, Marshall averaged about a block per game, compared to half that for Rose (and that's just career numbers, last season and this season Rose is averaging a combined .24 blocks per game - what a defensive monster!).
Next: Comparing players using inflated stats on lottery bound teams.Rebounding: Marshall has a career average of 7.3 and has averaged more than 10 boards a game in two different seasons. Rose has a career avg. of 4.3 boards per game, with a career high of 6.3 (lower than Donyell's avg.) two years ago
Considering that most Spurs fans still think Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr are Spurs you might be right.Spurs fan sentimental value: Rose (not even good for a cup of coffee at the truck stop)
I'm sure he can too.And I'll go out on a limb and say, seeings the organization makes the whole team do it, that Donyell can do just as much community service as Rose.
So the Spurs get another lanky forward who is light in the post but, not quick enough to defend the 3, but can shoot a lot of regular season 3s. Great.And the icing on the cake, Donyell makes 1 million less than Rose (despite more production in every statistical category - but you're right, the Spurs are cheap
But the Spurs are.Sadly this is all for not, because Toronto isn't this stupid.
Seriously, I don't see you bringing any takes, just mocking me because I'm using stats to back up the obvious - that Donyell's better than Rose.
As for being light in the post, what Western conference front line player can Malik handle? Shawn Bradley?
What about our likely opponents in the East? Can't guard Jermaine O'Neal, hasn't been able to guard Shaq for a good three years (even when he got the chance).
Come on, just give me some reason other than the fact that it's the stats, or that I'm an Aggie, or (my personal favorite) "I know more than you", as to why Rose > Marshall.
Yeah, the Spurs are dumb. Good call dumbass. Best front office in the damn league, and you're hating because your ing golden child role player, he of the 5 PPG, 4 RPG, hustles once every twenty games variety, is on the trade block.
Here's a thought: Rose isn't playing because he isn't earning the playing time. I know he should be able to dictate his minutes seeings he busted his ass back in '01-'02 and the last half of 02-03, but come on.
He's not beating out Horry, Massenberg, Rasho, or Marks based on play on the court or in practice (despite being paid more than three of those four), and you're throwing a hissy fit over it.
Get over Rose, and get over yourself.
I've addressed your points already. Given that you have a tendency to do what you accuse me of I find your accusation quite humorous.
Oh yes, Malik can't play physical inside. You can't put Malik on Shaq. Malik never did a solid job when matched up against the likes of KG. man your Rose hate has made you stupid. Rose can certainly play inside against physical frontcourts. Too bad Horry has problems with that.As for being light in the post, what Western conference front line player can Malik handle? Shawn Bradley?
Oh yes, Donyell Marshall the defensive genius.What about our likely opponents in the East? Can't guard Jermaine O'Neal, hasn't been able to guard Shaq for a good three years (even when he got the chance).
I've made my points. You have not responded to them directly. Until you do so I will continue to administer the appropriate level of condescention which you have earned.Come on, just give me some reason other than the fact that it's the stats, or that I'm an Aggie, or (my personal favorite) "I know more than you", as to why Rose > Marshall.
Yet if they were the "best front office in the damn league" why would they have ever signed such a horrid player in the first place? Don't they teach logic in Aggieland?Yeah, the Spurs are dumb. Good call dumbass. Best front office in the damn league,
No, I'm hating on them because obviously they are bent on moving Malik's contract because they are cheap. Cheap enough to treat a Tony Parker like crap and be perfectly willing to not extend his contract.and you're hating because your ing golden child role player, he of the 5 PPG, 4 RPG, hustles once every twenty games variety, is on the trade block.
AD was close to Tim, too. It's a business, and Tim understands that.Is anyone concerned about the affect on TD if Malik was sent down the river...so to speak? Aren't they fairly tight?
Funny, the reason given again and again for why they wanted to move Lik has been his contract. It's never been about the play.
It's kind of hard to beat those guys out when he has $26 million hanging around his neck.He's not beating out Horry, Massenberg, Rasho, or Marks based on play on the court or in practice (despite being paid more than three of those four), and you're throwing a hissy fit over it.
Yeah, I'm really sure that Lik hasn't beat out Marks. Get a ing clue.
Get over your own damn self. You most in this forum as if you actually might know something. Shut the up already you little blowhard chump.Get over Rose, and get over yourself.
Not in two years he hasn't. Quit living on the dude's legacy, it's obvious the Spurs team has.Malik never did a solid job when matched up against the likes of KG.
What points? I haven't seen anything other than "I'm right, you're wrong." That's as ing lame as living on Rose's legacy.I've made my points. You have not responded to them directly.
They're human. They make mistakes. Even I was for Rose getting the deal they originally gave him. He hasn't backed it up since, especially not this year.Yet if they were the "best front office in the damn league" why would they have ever signed such a horrid player in the first place? Don't they teach logic in Aggieland?
As for them being cheap, show me a GM in the league who'd be happy with their 12th Man making 5 million per. It's not being cheap, it's about getting value for what you're paying for.
I'd bet you'd be pretty pissed too if you paid for a Porsche and the thing was running slower than a ing tricycle.
I do not think Tim could stand waking up in the morning without seeing Malik's face every day. It might crush him.
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