The Manu Doesn't Believe in God Thread

[PixelPusher]

And James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights, didn't think it was important did it under pressure...so I don't know why I'd give him much credit for the foundation of our Constitution.

Because, besides the Bill of Rights, he also wrote..

Father of the Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison)

Back in the Virginia state legislature, Madison welcomed peace, but soon grew alarmed at the fragility of the Articles of Confederation, and especially at the divisiveness of state governments. He strongly advocated a new constitution to overcome this divisiveness. At the Philadelphia Convention in 1787, Madison's draft of the Virginia Plan and his revolutionary three-branch federal system became the basis for the American Constitution of today. Though Madison was a shy man, he was one of the more outspoken members of the Continental Congress. He envisioned a strong federal government that could overrule actions of the states when they were deemed mistaken; later in life he came to admire the Supreme Court as it started filling that role.[10]
And according to you, Constitution+Bill of Rights = "OUR" Constitution, which means you should put Madison > Henry

[Kamnik]

Don't have time or will to read whole 29 pages, but still, one question for DPG2192 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014)0 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Europe_belief_in_god.png/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.png
Map shows percentage of positive responses to statement "I believe there is a God." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_belief_in_god.png

So in your opinion, in large part of Europe, believers should keep themselves closeted as not to insult any ubersensitive infidels?

/me takes bill of rights and wipes his ass

oh nice map (i like maps in general)

i never thought about it... but yeah, all 4 neigbour countries of Slovenia are much more religious

[angel_luv]

Angel if you had to advise Manu and his two options were to be happy and atheist or slightly less happy and a devout Christian, which road would you tell him to take?

Thanks. :stirpot:


For the record, I wasn't ignoring you. I went to sleep and here you were cooking up brunch. haha

I want Gino to know fullness of joy, so if ever given the opportunity I will advise him to choose Christ.

John 17: 13-19- ( This is Jesus speaking)
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.


Jesus again...

John 10: 9-10-
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

[xtremesteven33]

Not really, no. You set what your purpose in life is. You even set your purpose in life when you decided to follow God's direction. You say, 'OK, God says my purpose in life is this, that and the other', when you made the decision to agree and pursue that in life, you effectively decided what your purpose in life is going to be. Some other people decided otherwise. Some people agreed, then noticed that didn't work for them, so they went a different way. There's no Right or Wrong here, IMO. It's completely a personal choice, and it's very disingenuous to claim that because somebody opted for a different purpose in life than yours, they're automatically wasting their life.
There are a lots of people who have set their purpose in life to help others, to advance sciences for the greater good of humanity, to make other people happy, and they don't believe in God at all. Even when some of their actions align themselves with Christianity.


What you say doesnt apply to the point im trying to make. Im not talking about individual value and purpose to ones life. Im talking about the broad spectrum of the human race since the beginning of time. Sure everyone has goals and ambitions everyday. I wanna go run today. So i go and do it. But how does that apply to eternal purpose of the human soul IF we do have one?

see what im saying?

I am a creationist. I believe we HAD to have intelligent design to have this beautiful universe with such precise order that none of this could have happened by accident. And since we were created by an infinite being. We assume by logic that this superior being had a plan for us.

Accidents dont have no meaning to begin with right? A "big bang" gives the impression that it was unplanned, therefore an "accidental event". AFTER the accident has happened, you can give meaning to it but not you cannot say the accident happened for a reason. that my friend is illogical.

[remingtonbo2001]

Under the athestic belief, reality does not exsist. Before you call me crazy, please read carefully.

Under such beliefs, if you were to die, nothing would happen, you would essentially cease to exsist. Therefore, everything you've percieved to have occured is non-exsistant, with regard to your conscience.

Well, you might say what about the conscience and perception of others.
As time passes, an astriod strikes the Earth, destroying all forms of life and anything which would provide evidence of previous life forms. (Hypothetical)

So, did reality exsist? Did anything ever exsist? More importantly, what defines that exsistance after such a point in time?

[Phenomanul]

For the record, I wasn't ignoring you. I went to sleep and here you were cooking up brunch. haha

I want Gino to know fullness of joy, so if ever given the opportunity I will advise him to choose Christ.

John 17: 13-19- ( This is Jesus speaking)
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.


Jesus again...

John 10: 9-10-
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

One of my two favorite passages....

:tu

[Phenomanul]

Theoretical scenario:

An athiest out at sea, staying afloat with the debris from his/her capsized vessel; 3rd day out in the water.... Sharks start to swim around.



























100:1 odds that said person starts his/her 'rescue me and I'll believe' plea to the GOD that created the universe.

[Shastafarian]

Under the athestic belief, reality does not exsist. Before you call me crazy, please read carefully.

Under such beliefs, if you were to die, nothing would happen, you would essentially cease to exsist. Therefore, everything you've percieved to have occured is non-exsistant, with regard to your conscience.

Well, you might say what about the conscience and perception of others.
As time passes, an astriod strikes the Earth, destroying all forms of life and anything which would provide evidence of previous life forms. (Hypothetical)

So, did reality exsist? Did anything ever exsist? More importantly, what defines that exsistance after such a point in time?

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.

[Shastafarian]

Theoretical scenario:

An athiest out at sea, staying afloat with the debris from his/her capsized vessel; 3rd day out in the water.... Sharks start to swim around.



























100:1 odds that said person starts his/her 'rescue me and I'll believe' plea to the GOD that created the universe.

Interesting scientific study you have there. Let me know what the results are when they're analyzed.

[remingtonbo2001]

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.

Well, if it's is so illogical, then rebuff my argument.

Why do you use sarcasm to defend your stance? Isn't there a more intellectual approach to take?

Why not try to answer the questions I purposed. Is it too difficult?

[angel_luv]

Interesting scientific study you have there. Let me know what the results are when they're analyzed.

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

[xtremesteven33]

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.



Yea i didnt really understand it either.

Ive heard of those kinda theories before.

"Is our reality Truth?"


:wow

[Shastafarian]

Well, if it's is so illogical, then rebuff my argument.

Why do you use sarcasm to defend your stance? Isn't there a more intellectual approach to take?

Sarcasm is fun. This is an internet message board. It's supposed to be fun right?

Your argument is illogical because it assumes there needs to be continued consciousness for reality to exist. That is blatantly false. Just because we are no longer here to conceive of something doesn't mean it never existed. I feel like you're arguing, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?"

[Shastafarian]

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.

[remingtonbo2001]

Sarcasm is fun. This is an internet message board. It's supposed to be fun right?

Your argument is illogical because it assumes there needs to be continued consciousness for reality to exist. That is blatantly false. Just because we are no longer here to conceive of something doesn't mean it never existed. I feel like you're arguing, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?"

Good point.

Okay, i'll take it one step further. If the Universe implodes upon itself, then what? What happens when the Universe ceases to exsist?

Granted, I'm presenting this in the hypothetical, but I'm curious about your opinion. Not your wit. :)

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?

[baseline bum]

Bo, your argument can also be used to say creation never happened, because we can never know of it due to the intense gravity in the singularity that destroyed all information at the time of the big bang.

[ElNono]

What you say doesnt apply to the point im trying to make. Im not talking about individual value and purpose to ones life. Im talking about the broad spectrum of the human race since the beginning of time. Sure everyone has goals and ambitions everyday. I wanna go run today. So i go and do it. But how does that apply to eternal purpose of the human soul IF we do have one?

see what im saying?


See, the problem is that we don't agree with terms here. To you, a 'soul' is this divine thing. To me, the soul is a few cellular interconnects in my brain. And so, my soul exists just as long as I live. When I kick the bucket, so does every other part of my body. To me, there's no such concept as an 'eternal soul'.



I am a creationist. I believe we HAD to have intelligent design to have this beautiful universe with such precise order that none of this could have happened by accident. And since we were created by an infinite being. We assume by logic that this superior being had a plan for us.


If believing that is what works for you, great!


Accidents dont have no meaning to begin with right? A "big bang" gives the impression that it was unplanned, therefore an "accidental event". AFTER the accident has happened, you can give meaning to it but not you cannot say the accident happened for a reason. that my friend is illogical.

What? Accidents happen every day, and you can almost always find a reason of why they happened. When you can't, you have two paths to follow: Either you scientifically attempt to figure out why (by proposing a theory for scrutiny based on sound science) or, if you're a person that believes in the supernatural, you assign it to it.
The second problem with your post is that you assume that the Big Bang happened. It's called a theory for a reason. Even pretending here for a second that it did happen, we still don't know how it happened.
But then again, how any of this has anything to do with Evolution?

[xtremesteven33]

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.



Ur right. then the believer should stop. Faith was never meant to be forced upon mankind.

Jesus said:

"Those with ears listen"

thats it....

[angel_luv]

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.

I don't want to alienate people because I would hate to turn someone off so much that they would never give me a chance to witness to them at a later date, when they could be more receptive.

I try to live my life in a way that people know what I believe.
I hope people know they are welcome to ask me questions about my faith and/or to pray with them, whenever ( if ever) they desire to.

Joshua 24: 15-
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

[ElNono]

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

I've read much better science fiction. Much scarier too.

[baseline bum]

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?

No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.

[Shastafarian]

Good point.

Okay, i'll take it one step further. If the Universe implodes upon itself, then what? What happens when the Universe ceases to exsist?

Granted, I'm presenting this in the hypothetical, but I'm curious about your opinion. Not your wit. :)

Nothingness happens..in our Universe. Some people (that are smarter than you and me combined) think that there are alternate universes.


I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?
It depends on your definition of a sound. baselinebum explains it very well


No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.

[angel_luv]

I've read much better science fiction. Much scarier too.

One of the great things to me about God is that one day, all will see Him and everything I have stood for in faith will be proved true.
When that day comes, AND IT WILL, no non-believer will have any argument to present, much less the nerve to speak.

I don't want you to come to the Truth to prove me right.
I want you to come to the Truth because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His Word WILL be PROVEN right.

[Shastafarian]

One of the great things to me about God is that one day, all will see Him and everything I have stood for in faith will be proved true.
When that day comes, AND IT WILL, no non-believer will have any argument to present, much less the nerve to speak.

I don't want you to come to the Truth to prove me right.
I want you to come to the Truth because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His Word WILL be PROVEN right.

But how can you know that for sure? I mean 100% know it. Because you read it in the Bible?

[remingtonbo2001]

No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.


Who, or what is present to measure the waves created(sound)?

Something has to be present in order for sound to be measured. Something has to be present in order for sound to be defined.

I understand your point of view. Your holding all things constant.

We live in a world in which not everything is held constant, there are different variables.

[xtremesteven33]

What? Accidents happen every day, and you can almost always find a reason of why they happened. When you can't, you have two paths to follow: Either you scientifically attempt to figure out why (by proposing a theory for scrutiny based on sound science) or, if you're a person that believes in the supernatural, you assign it to it.
The second problem with your post is that you assume that the Big Bang happened. It's called a theory for a reason. Even pretending here for a second that it did happen, we still don't know how it happened.
But then again, how any of this has anything to do with Evolution?



Accidents happen everyday. Ur right. But no one PLANS an accident bro. Thats my point!

My original arguement was that Atheists seem to believe in "purpose" even though they also believe in accidental existence. It is illogical to say the least. You cant have it both ways sad to say. Its either "created with a purpose" or "Accidental Natural selection"

One cannot say an accident happend for a reason with a atheistic point of view. If an accident happend for a reason or was orchestrated in any way, then you either look at it by divine intervention or it was planned and therefore had purpose.

[Phenomanul]

Interesting scientific study you have there. Let me know what the results are when they're analyzed.

Hence the descriptor... "Theoretical...."

I guess a much better adjective choice would have been to use the word "hypothetical...." oh well. My point stands; when faced with death, most people, including athiests, will succumb to the innermost desire of their spirit to continue living. In most cases they will plea. So if no one is there... they will eventually plea to the one entity they've denied existence to. GOD will listen when He senses true belief. How He chooses to respond at that point however is entirely up to Him.

Anyhow, the prevailing notion in this thread that "belief in GOD makes one intellectually inferior" is quite laughable... Go ahead and conduct a such a study. "Let me know what the results are when they are analyzed."

I will tell you this.... there is no correlation. One could be completely athiestic and be highly intelligent. Or be completely spiritual and highly intelligent. They are not mutually exclusive attributes. IMO however, I would consider the latter person wiser for having recognized and connected the Creator with His creation.

[ElNono]

Under the athestic belief, reality does not exsist. Before you call me crazy, please read carefully.

Under such beliefs, if you were to die, nothing would happen, you would essentially cease to exsist. Therefore, everything you've percieved to have occured is non-exsistant, with regard to your conscience.


Boy, are we confused...
When you die, you die. Including your conscience. You don't get to perceive anything after you're dead. Reality keeps on going. You get buried/cremated and the life of others goes on. If you happened to leave anything that transcends your life, such as photographs, a book, etc, some people might remember you. But you're toast, done, finito.



Well, you might say what about the conscience and perception of others.
As time passes, an astriod strikes the Earth, destroying all forms of life and anything which would provide evidence of previous life forms. (Hypothetical)

So, did reality exsist? Did anything ever exsist? More importantly, what defines that exsistance after such a point in time?

Of course reality exists. There are other planets, galaxies, might be other universes for all we know. They'll still have reality. Reality is nothing but a label to describe the marker in time for the current time. You would need to destroy time in order to destroy reality.

[Shastafarian]

Accidents happen everyday. Ur right. But no one PLANS an accident bro. Thats my point!

My original arguement was that Atheists seem to believe in "purpose" even though they also believe in accidental existence. It is illogical to say the least. You cant have it both ways sad to say. Its either "created with a purpose" or "Accidental Natural selection"

One cannot say an accident happend for a reason with a atheistic point of view. If an accident happend for a reason or was orchestrated in any way, then you either look at it by divine intervention or it was planned and therefore had purpose.

People who understand what atheism truly is probably don't believe in things happening for a reason. Can't say for sure as I don't know any steadfast atheists.

[remingtonbo2001]

But no one PLANS an accident bro.

What about the Mafia? :spin

[angel_luv]

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.


A tree falling does make a sound, even if there is no one to bear witness to that specific instance.
People have witnessed other trees fall and have heard the sounds they make.
Therefore, we can apply that knowledge and know that whenever any tree falls, it does indeed make a sound.

[ElNono]

One of the great things to me about God is that one day, all will see Him and everything I have stood for in faith will be proved true.
When that day comes, AND IT WILL, no non-believer will have any argument to present, much less the nerve to speak.

I don't want you to come to the Truth to prove me right.
I want you to come to the Truth because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His Word WILL be PROVEN right.

So, what happens if an alien ships shows up first and provide evidence that they created us? I mean, it's just as sound as a theory as God.
What you would believe then? Would you *STILL* believe you're going to be facing God?

[clambake]

does anyone else walk through life thinking that there are demons bent on confusing mankind?

[baseline bum]

Who, or what is present to measure the waves created(sound)?

Something has to be present in order for sound to be measured. Something has to be present in order for sound to be defined.

I understand your point of view. Your holding all things constant.

We live in a world in which not everything is held constant, there are different variables.

No, something has to be present for the perception of sound to be measured. Your argument is basically boiling down to "If a tree falls in the forest and no one heard it, then no one perceived it", which really isn't saying anything. If your argument is that it makes no sound period, then your argument clearly states that inductive reasoning is false, and that we can only believe in something we explicitly see, hear, taste, etc. (not a good point to make if you're arguing for the presence of a god who does not reveal himself in any scientifically measurable way.)

What would you not hold constant in a tree falling in an uninhabited forest? That air is not there? That the tree doesn't accelerate to the ground at 9.8 meters per second squared? That it never stood in the first place?

[remingtonbo2001]

Of course reality exists. There are other planets, galaxies, might be other universes for all we know. They'll still have reality. Reality is nothing but a label to describe the marker in time for the current time. You would need to destroy time in order to destroy reality.

Precisely, time is a human conception of measurement.

Which goes back to my argument, if nothing exsists in order to measure time, how does time itself exsist?

And I also purposed the following hypothetical about the collaspe of the Universe, taking planets, galaxies, ect, out of the equation.


Okay, i'll take it one step further. If the Universe implodes upon itself, then
what? What happens when the Universe ceases to exsist?

[RandomGuy]

George Washington quotes:



A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

“O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

http://www.eadshome.com/GeorgeWashington.htm

One can be a "secularist" and still pray, go to church, read the Bible, and advocate others do so.

There is a big difference between faith, and the idea that government shouldn't advocate one religion over any other.

These men wanted that seperation, because of the different flavors of Christianity at the time were all were competing to be the "official" religion of the new nation. Some colonies actually had official religions, if memory serves.

The people writing the constitution were of different sects of Christianity, and understood full well that allowing one or another of those sects to gain "official" status would lead to all sorts of persecution.

[jman3000]

A tree falling does make a sound, even if there is no one to bear witness to that specific instance.
People have witnessed other trees fall and have heard the sounds they make.
Therefore, we can apply that knowledge and know that whenever any tree falls, it does indeed make a sound.

:lol @ the deceptively clever Jesus/God metaphor.

[angel_luv]

But how can you know that for sure? I mean 100% know it. Because you read it in the Bible?

How do you know for sure your mother is indeed your mother?
Likely...
1) Because your mom identified herself to you personally as your mom 2)because it says so on your birth certficate and 3)because people ( doctors, family members) witnessed your birth to your mother and told you about it.

I know Jesus is returning because 1) He speaks directly to my heart, 2)because it says so in the Bible ( my birth certificate, so to speak, and 3)because I have the testimony of others who also know Jesus. ( Accounts of people in the Bible ( disciples, Apostle Paul etc.), historical records of people who have already died (missionaries, pastors etc), and the daily testimonies of fellow Believers ( Christians here on the Forum and my friends from church).

[RandomGuy]

does anyone else walk through life thinking that there are demons bent on confusing mankind?


I am reasonably certain that you are one of those... :lol


j/k

[remingtonbo2001]

What would you not hold constant in a tree falling in an uninhabited forest? That air is not there? That the tree doesn't accelerate to the ground at 9.8 meters per second squared? That it never stood in the first place?

My point is things must witnessed. Someone has to witness a tree falling at accelerated rate of 9.8 meters per second squared, to know precisely that.
Without someone, or yourself, witnessing such an event, you don't know the possibility of that event to occur, exsists.


Veronica, corrected me if wrong, but isn't that a fundamental part of Christianity, that certain events be witnessed?

[Phenomanul]

does anyone else walk through life thinking that there are demons bent on confusing mankind?

Despite your ignorant intolerance for parading my quote out of context (for more than a year no less), it applies to ElNono's hypothetical scenario.

I won't build a strawman argument and suggest that aliens don't exist; while linking that belief to the notion that if they do, that then GOD doesn't.

More than likely however that day will never come (aliens showing up at the White House to declare their existence to the world). Regardless, my belief in "sovereignties and principalities" not of this world (Angels and Demons) is unwaveringly linked to the belief in GOD Himself. You may laugh at me now, but frankly it has no bearing on what I will continue to believe in.

:wakeup

[Shastafarian]

I know Jesus is returning because 1) He speaks directly to my heart,
How?

2)because it says so in the Bible ( my birth certificate, so to speak,
If I believed everything I read in books I'd be reinforcing my house against vampires and giant squid. Sorry but a book written by men is as flawed as men

and 3)because I have the testimony of others who also know Jesus. ( Accounts of people in the Bible ( disciples, Apostle Paul etc.), historical records of people who have already died (missionaries, pastors etc), and the daily testimonies of fellow Believers ( Christians here on the Forum and my friends from church).
What does this mean really? What does it mean to "know" Jesus? I think it's safe to say you're not claiming you have met or talked to him. So what do you mean?

[RandomGuy]

How do you know for sure your mother is indeed your mother?
Likely...
1) Because your mom identified herself to you personally as your mom 2)because it says so on your birth certficate and 3)because people ( doctors, family members) witnessed your birth to your mother and told you about it.

I believe Jesus is returning because 1) He speaks directly to my heart, 2)because it says so in the Bible ( my birth certificate, so to speak, and 3)because I have the testimony of others who also know Jesus. ( Accounts of people in the Bible ( disciples, Apostle Paul etc.), historical records of people who have already died (missionaries, pastors etc), and the daily testimonies of fellow Believers ( Christians here on the Forum and my friends from church).

Fixed.

As a mortal, you cannot "know" the details of the divine plan. The Infinite is beyond the finite to truly comprehend.

You can read things that allow you to know the divine will as percieved by the writers.

I can buy this, if it is "Jesus will return someday". I think this is what you mean here.

BUT

I hear a lot of people who firmly believe Jesus will come back in their lifetime. That is not for us to know, only to guess at.

[Shastafarian]

Did Jesus change the day of the sabbath or are Jews just simply wrong?

[angel_luv]

does anyone else walk through life thinking that there are demons bent on confusing mankind?

There are. But they will get theirs. :)


Revelation 10:12-10-

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."


Revelation 20:10-

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[ElNono]

Precisely, time is a human conception of measurement.

Which goes back to my argument, if nothing exsists in order to measure time, how does time itself exsist?

And I also purposed the following hypothetical about the collaspe of the Universe, taking planets, galaxies, ect, out of the equation.

LOL, you're looking really retarded already, but I'll help you get to the next level. If time is a human conception, then if every single human decide to try real hard for just a second and say: 'Ok, let's stop time', close their eyes, and shrug real hard, does time stop?

And to me, time is just another dimension defined by our Universe. Now if the Universe is destroyed, then I would say that the existence of that Universe concluded at whatever specific time was local to that Universe.

[Phenomanul]

One can be a "secularist" and still pray, go to church, read the Bible, and advocate others do so.

There is a big difference between faith, and the idea that government shouldn't advocate one religion over any other.

These men wanted that seperation, because of the different flavors of Christianity at the time were all were competing to be the "official" religion of the new nation. Some colonies actually had official religions, if memory serves.

The people writing the constitution were of different sects of Christianity, and understood full well that allowing one or another of those sects to gain "official" status would lead to all sorts of persecution.

And yet the church faces all sorts of persecution from secularist agendas today... Ironic, no?

The Bible endorses separation of 'Church and State'.... with the implied premise that GOD's precepts continue to remain relevant to one's daily conduct.

[angel_luv]

So, what happens if an alien ships shows up first and provide evidence that they created us? I mean, it's just as sound as a theory as God.
What you would believe then? Would you *STILL* believe you're going to be facing God?

How is it plausible to you than aliens could appear to me but not at all conceivable to you that the God of the Universe will appear to you?

We will see who appears and who doesn't.

Spolier alert: Jesus is the only one returning. :)

[baseline bum]

My point is things must witnessed. Someone has to witness a tree falling at accelerated rate of 9.8 meters per second squared, to know precisely that.
Without someone, or yourself, witnessing such an event, you don't know the possibility of that event to occur, exsists.


Veronica, corrected me if wrong, but isn't that a fundamental part of Christianity, that certain events be witnessed?

Then there is no god as there is no way to measure its presence. I highly doubt that is a fundamental part of Christianity.

[Shastafarian]

How is it plausible to you than aliens could appear to me but not at all conceivable to you that the God of the Universe will appear to you?

We will see who appears and who doesn't.

Spolier alert: Jesus is the only one returning. :)

Well there are billions of other galaxies (within them are billions of stars) in the Universe so it seems likely intelligent life is out there. The bigger question is how to get past that whole can't accelerate to the speed of light nonsense. I'd believe that over an invisible, omniscient being who created us in his image story any day.

[clambake]

well phen, you're the one that said it, because thats the way you're wired. funny you don't think your dad had anything to do with that download.

post all pictures of demons, please.

[Phenomanul]

LOL, you're looking really retarded already, but I'll help you get to the next level. If time is a human conception, then if every single human decide to try real hard for just a second and say: 'Ok, let's stop time', close their eyes, and shrug real hard, does time stop?

And to me, time is just another dimension defined by our Universe. Now if the Universe is destroyed, then I would say that the existence of that Universe concluded at whatever specific time was local to that Universe.

Joshua once stopped the sun to continue fighting Israel's enemies for an extra day.... maybe he singlehandedly reversed the earth's spin, like superman... does that count?

:lol

[angel_luv]

:lol @ the deceptively clever Jesus/God metaphor.

For you. :)

Matthew 16:17-Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven

[remingtonbo2001]

LOL, you're looking really retarded already, but I'll help you get to the next level. If time is a human conception, then if every single human decide to try real hard for just a second and say: 'Ok, let's stop time', close their eyes, and shrug real hard, does time stop?

And to me, time is just another dimension defined by our Universe. Now if the Universe is destroyed, then I would say that the existence of that Universe concluded at whatever specific time was local to that Universe.


Sigh, your missing my point. Time is a human conception of measurement. If a human does not exsist to define time, does the concept of time exsist?

How can something exsist if nothing of capable intellegence is there to define it?

[Shastafarian]

Sigh, your missing my point. Time is a human conception of measurement. If a human does not exsist to define time, does the concept of time exsist?

How can something exsist if nothing of capable intellegence is there to define it?

No. The concept of time does not exist.

[remingtonbo2001]

Then there is no god as there is no way to measure its presence. I highly doubt that is a fundamental part of Christianity.

You can measure God's presense (in a sense) through prayer.

[baseline bum]

You can measure God's presense (in a sense) through prayer.

How can you objectively measure God's presence through prayer? I tried many times through the first 19 years of my life when I was a believer, and never got anything but a one-way conversation.

[ElNono]

Accidents happen everyday. Ur right. But no one PLANS an accident bro. Thats my point!

You could have said just that and saved me some typing.
I agree, no accidents are planned.


My original arguement was that Atheists seem to believe in "purpose" even though they also believe in accidental existence. It is illogical to say the least. You cant have it both ways sad to say. Its either "created with a purpose" or "Accidental Natural selection"


Complete fallacy. You can absolutely have a purpose, even if you were created by accident. I don't see where this is 'illogical' at all. Unless you're referring again to this unsubstantiated notion of 'eternal purpose'.


One cannot say an accident happend for a reason with a atheistic point of view. If an accident happend for a reason or was orchestrated in any way, then you either look at it by divine intervention or it was planned and therefore had purpose.

The mistake is that you think Natural evolution is accidental. And it's actually a causality of different factors. You could even predict the extinction of a species based on different parameters. That's no accident at all.

[xtremesteven33]

How can you objectively measure God's presence through prayer? I tried many times through the first 19 years of my life when I was a believer, and never got anything but a one-way conversation.




Yet there are millions of people who testify differently.

I have felt Gods power. Not the power of suggestion. Not the power of Mind tricks. But really the Power and conviction of the supernatural.


If you have not felt anything it does not take away the fact that there is a creator.

[angel_luv]

Veronica, corrected me if wrong, but isn't that a fundamental part of Christianity, that certain events be witnessed?

We ourselves are called as Christians to be a witness.


Matthew 5:13- You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.


2 Timothy 2:2-
And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

But in regards to your current argument, consider these verses...


Hebrews 11:1- Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

John 20: 24-29-
Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came.
So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

[Phenomanul]

well phen, you're the one that said it, because thats the way you're wired. funny you don't think your dad had anything to do with that download. My spiritual Father is GOD. You don't see me bashing you with the intent to cause ridicule by posting your beliefs in my signature... Oh well, little do you know that all you've been doing is spreading a message you don't particularly believe in. How you like dem apples?


post all pictures of demons, please.

Even if I could... that would prove nothing. Your unbelief stems from your heart, not from your senses. In essence you have made a conscious choice not to believe in GOD, despite the fact that everything around us speaks volumes of His nature - "The Heavens declare the Glory of GOD, and the firmament showeth His handiwork."

One day however, all humans will see Jesus himself triumphantly return to earth from the heavens, unfortunately for many - it will be too late to have a change of heart.

[ploto]

I believe that God exists and I believe in the after-life. I also believe that everyone has a different path to God.

I believe that every soul on this planet is on a journey towards finding God. We do have a purpose and everyone is unique and special. I obviously don't have all the answers and most of my prayers include a request for faith but I sincerely believe that there exists a God that cannot be quantified, dissected or formulated.

I believe the Bible is one of the most incredible collection of books ever compiled and that it was divinely inspired. I also don't believe that every word or story is to be taken literally.

To truely appreciate the fantastic stories in the Bible (those stories that lead some rational humans to believe that it is absurd and impossible) i.e. Genesis, one has to understand that these stories were written to appeal to all of mankind in the most simplest of terms. In other words, the point of Genesis was to explain that God created the Heavens, Earth and Man. The Bible says it took 7 days. Well, 7 days could represent x-million number of years. The point is, God did it. Why try to explain the minutia of evolution when you are trying to keep an audience's attention ?


I would say that my thoughts are very much in line with yours. I think to lose out on the context within which the Bible was written is to lose the richness of it. I do not believe that everything in it is to be taken literally- that does not mean it is not inspired, just that its intentions are to instruct in the spiritual life and not in the biological realgm. I believe all its spiritual teachings to be true but its methods of storytelling are there to instruct in ways in which people can understand. Even Jesus spoke in parables that were not literal. For example, I do not believe that a 900 year old man literally gathered two of every species and got them all onto his boat.

I also think in a large sense that it really does not matter. Seriously. If the stories are literal or not does not effect my faith because the spiritual truths are all that really matter. The point is the belief that God created us- not how He did it or or in how many days.

I also do not personally know any Jewish people who take those early Genesis stories literally and it is their book after all.

[RandomGuy]

And yet the church faces all sorts of persecution from secularist agendas today... Ironic, no?

The Bible endorses separation of 'Church and State'.... with the implied premise that GOD's precepts continue to remain relevant to one's daily conduct.

"the church" is being "persecuted".

Which church?

How is it being "persecuted" by a "secularist agenda"?

Details?

Links?

I call "bullshit" on this. I want to see some sort of proof for this assertion.

[remingtonbo2001]

How can you objectively measure God's presence through prayer? I tried many times through the first 19 years of my life when I was a believer, and never got anything but a one-way conversation.

Because I can measure the benefits I've recieved being in God's presence, vesus the struggles I faced being outside of his presence.

Therefore, I choose to be in the presence of God.

I cannot provide an answer for your situation, because I'm unaware of the details. More so, it would require that I place some type of judgment upon your spitual faith, your heart, and situations and events which nurture spirtual growth. I am not capable, nor qualified to make those judgments.

I can only offer you an example of what has worked in my life.

Being in the presence of God, having a relationship with Jesus Christ, has been beneficial and continues to be beneficial in my life.

[xtremesteven33]

Complete fallacy. You can absolutely have a purpose, even if you were created by accident. I don't see where this is 'illogical' at all. Unless you're referring again to this unsubstantiated notion of 'eternal purpose


Eternal Purpose is exactly what i am speaking of. On the topic of evolution. I am no scientist but i dont have a little knowledge on the subject.

Just like Creationism. Evolution is a theory that cannot be proven due to lack of evidence-In the Beginning. Just like Creationism. Its the beginning that is the stumbling block. Most Scientists who support the theory of Evolution claim that it started with the "big bang". which again cannot be proven with imperical evidence.

No matter how you look at it. The beginning of time and earth cannot be proven with tangible evidence but has to be looked at with faith and logic.

[clambake]

My spiritual Father is GOD. You don't see me bashing you with the intent to cause ridicule by posting your beliefs in my signature... Oh well, little do you know that all you've been doing is spreading a message you don't particularly believe in. How you like dem apples?



Even if I could... that would prove nothing. Your unbelief stems from your heart, not from your senses. In essence you have made a conscious choice not to believe in GOD, despite the fact that everything around us speaks volumes of His nature - "The Heavens declare the Glory of GOD, and the firmament showeth His handiwork."

One day however, all humans will see Jesus himself triumphantly return to earth from the heavens, unfortunately for many - it will be too late to have a change of heart.

you don't know shit about religion beyond the teachings of your father. i grew up in belfast where they didn't deny their preaching was anything other than projecting their influence. you will likely never see to what extent they are willing to create chaos and murder as being noble for their cause, in their gods name. you tend to deny the history. it's always been nothing more than what powerful people "agreed to believe".

[ploto]

Being in the presence of God, having a relationship with Jesus Christ, has been beneficial and continues to be beneficial in my life.

So you do it for what YOU get out of it?

[ElNono]

How is it plausible to you than aliens could appear to me but not at all conceivable to you that the God of the Universe will appear to you?

We will see who appears and who doesn't.

Spolier alert: Jesus is the only one returning. :)

You didn't answer the question. If it does happen, what you would believe then? Would you *STILL* believe you're going to be facing God?

[angel_luv]

One question at a time. :)



How?


The clearest example I can give you is what you likely refer to as your conscience.
Man is a spirit, he has a soul ( mind, will, and emotions) and lives in a body.

The spirit is what lives forever. Your spirit is what chooses either to align itself with God or Satan and that determines the priorities and behaviors of your mind, will, and emotions.

God speaks to me through his Holy Spirit, who at my acceptance of Christ came to live in me, to help my spirit as I follow Jesus.

John 4: 23-24-

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

John 16:12-14
"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

John 14: 15-21
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[ in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

Acts 1:1-8-
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.
After His suffering, He showed Himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
On one occasion, while He was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not is leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
So when they met together, they asked Him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

[smeagol]

You guys should read the God Thread, in the Classic Forum (except BB, he posted in it).

[Phenomanul]

"the church" is being "persecuted".

Which church?

How is it being "persecuted" by a "secularist agenda"?

Details?

Links?

I call "bullshit" on this. I want to see some sort of proof for this assertion.

Why such belligerence. Anyways, my lunch break at work is over; so I won't be able to respond.

Moreover, even if I point these things out, you will try to explain them away as justified acts of reasoning. You have little context to measure the damage that such acts are doing to the church.

But off the top of my head;

1). Proposed laws in California that deny mothers the right to 'homeschool' their children, simply because a few irresponsible parents failed to properly conduct homeschooling sessions. Laws that make it harder to legally sanction the homeschooling practice - requiring mothers to have accredited teaching certificates. This raises the question: Since when has the state been 100% effective at educating its students? Why the double standard? Oh yeah, because most of these 'homeshooled' households have religious reasons for choosing said system as their method of choice. Liberal California lawmakers can't have any of that!!! All children must be instructed by the state at a 75% success clip. No ifs, and, or buts...

2) Proposed laws that want to qualify certain passages in the Bible as "hate speech," and that ministers refrain from preaching about said passages from the pulpit. GOD hates the sin, and loves the human. It is the calling of the church to steer society's burdened souls toward GOD's redemptive love. Calling a sin by its name is not tantamount to condemnation of the sinner.

[ElNono]

Eternal Purpose is exactly what i am speaking of. On the topic of evolution. I am no scientist but i dont have a little knowledge on the subject.
Just like Creationism. Evolution is a theory that cannot be proven due to lack of evidence-In the Beginning. Just like Creationism. Its the beginning that is the stumbling block. Most Scientists who support the theory of Evolution claim that it started with the "big bang". which again cannot be proven with imperical evidence.


The difference is that Evolution is a theory that can be tested, scrutinized, and so far has not been directly contradicted by researching our past.
Creationism, on the other hand, cannot be tested, scrutinized, and so far HAS been contradicted by the research in our past. Or you do believe in man walking with Dinosaurs 4000 years ago?


No matter how you look at it. The beginning of time and earth cannot be proven with tangible evidence but has to be looked at with faith and logic.

Actually, I disagree. I think it has to be looked scientifically. How does looking at it with 'faith' will advance any knowledge of how it happened?

[Phenomanul]

you don't know shit about religion beyond the teachings of your father. Talk about unqualifiable assertions.... Now suddenly I have no sentient thoughts of my own?


i grew up in belfast where they didn't deny their preaching was anything other than projecting their influence. you will likely never see to what extent they are willing to create chaos and murder as being noble for their cause, in their gods name. you tend to deny the history. it's always been nothing more than what powerful people "agreed to believe".

People ultimately act on the desires of their hearts.

Men are inherently corrupt.

GOD gave humanity the free will to act independently from His Will.

Those three statements are not mutually exclusive. What happened in Ireland is tragic; GOD was not responsible for that. It's sad, however that the evil of this world has pushed you away from GOD instead of drawing you closer to Him.

[xtremesteven33]

The difference is that Evolution is a theory that can be tested, scrutinized, and so far has not been directly contradicted by researching our past.
Creationism, on the other hand, cannot be tested, scrutinized, and so far HAS been contradicted by the research in our past. Or you do believe in man walking with Dinosaurs 4000 years ago?



Actually, I disagree. I think it has to be looked scientifically. How does looking at it with 'faith' will advance any knowledge of how it happened?




Faith is applied at whatever you believe that you cannot prove 100%.

the same applies with Evolution. Creationism actually parallels alot with the evidence that Science has. You gotta look it up. For example. The Bible contains so many scientific facts that has proved science wrong years in advance.

Also The Bible speaks of a worldwide disaster wiping out the earths population and Science itself has evidence that speaks volumes that this testimony could actually be true.

[angel_luv]

If I believed everything I read in books I'd be reinforcing my house against vampires and giant squid. Sorry but a book written by men is as flawed as men

Matthew 22:29-
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God

2 Timothy 3:16-
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Revelation 22:17-20The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus



What does this mean really? What does it mean to "know" Jesus? I think it's safe to say you're not claiming you have met or talked to him. So what do you mean?,


I do know Jesus, personally.

Jesus is a personal God interested in the transformation of each individual life.

An example of this is the Conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Acts 9: 1-6-
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 9:10-22
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

As for me, I know Jesus through His Word, which he wrote for me ( so I and all of us might know Him and His ways).
Again 2 Timothy 3:16-
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Also, I know him as I communicate with him through daily prayer daily which is daily answered.

Also, I learn of Jesus simply by looking around me.
Romans 1:20-
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

[AnotherArgie]

Theoretical scenario:

An athiest out at sea, staying afloat with the debris from his/her capsized vessel; 3rd day out in the water.... Sharks start to swim around.

100:1 odds that said person starts his/her 'rescue me and I'll believe' plea to the GOD that created the universe.

10000000:1 odds that the sharks will still eat the reformed atheist alive.

[smeagol]

I did not get all worked up in the context of what he said.

Oh yes you did. You are simply backpedalling. You goit bailed out by whotttt. You should thank him, otheriwse we would be reapping you a new one for 30 additional pages.

To refresh you memory, here's some of the things you said:


to act like superstars in the limelight spouting off about really inflammatory subjects

"Act like superstars in the limelight"?

WTF is wrong with you? Manu is probably one of the only NBA superstars (together with TD and a few others) who does not act like a "superstar in the limelight". He was simply answering a question from a fan. This is something he does on a regular basis. Get a fucking clue.


"Spouting off about really inflammatory subjects"?


Again, WTF? He simply said he does not believe in God. How is that inflammatory?

More BS from DPG:



he was incredibly stupid for posting such a inflammatory answer on the world wide web

"Incredibly stupid"?

According to who? To you . . . ? Do you realize what a dumbass you are? Saying Manu looks stupid for telling the truth on a topic regading religion, makes you look like a dumbass.



I got surprised that he even bothered to answer a question that seems to be personal on a fan forum.


He does it all the time. Keep up with the program. Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling the world you believe or you do not believe in God. Even if you play in the NBA.



Most stars are not that open or honest.


Manu is that honest, much to your surprise.




That is all. I did not say it was a sin, I said I do not care about his beliefs. I said good for him for being honest,


You said he was stupid for being honest. Quit the fucking backpedalling already.



but I thought it was surprising

You said he was stupid, not surprising. You actually said incredibly stupid. It's on page two of this thread. Go re-read to refresh your memory.



and he might get grief about it from some fans.

Get grief from fans simply because he thinks differently? Then those fans are as retarded as you are. Frankly, he wont get more grief than playing for his NT . . . I think not.

[remingtonbo2001]

So you do it for what YOU get out of it?

Serving God?

In some regard, yes.

However, to look at it soley from what I gain and do not gain, wouldn't be very accurate. My desire is for my faith to be able to serve others and God.

[angel_luv]

Fixed.

As a mortal, you cannot "know" the details of the divine plan. The Infinite is beyond the finite to truly comprehend.

You can read things that allow you to know the divine will as percieved by the writers.

I can buy this, if it is "Jesus will return someday". I think this is what you mean here.

BUT

I hear a lot of people who firmly believe Jesus will come back in their lifetime. That is not for us to know, only to guess at.


Wrong on an important count. I do KNOW Jesus will return, because He promised He will.

True, I don't know the precise time in which Jesus will return, but then again Jesus already said that too.

John 14:1-3-Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Mark 13:31-33-
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

[byrontx]

I hate having scriptures quoted as proof. You shouldn't quote the Bible unless you can say who wrote it. Who were the authors? A lot of Christians mistakenly believe that the disciples wrote the books for which they are named. Your preacher knows that the authors are unknown (hopefully they passed seminary) but will give you some jive about the invisible hand of god writing through the agency of an unknown believer or something to that effect. Which is a bunch of bullcrap.

If you are going to declare the Second Council of Nicaea to be divinely inspired, name someone that attended and provide some proof.

I can accept that there is a god but what I cannot accept is that anyone knows more about it than anyone else.

I think Manu is saying that he is not a Christian, that does not mean he is an atheist.

[angel_luv]

You didn't answer the question. If it does happen, what you would believe then? Would you *STILL* believe you're going to be facing God?

I did answer you, you just refused to receive it. :)

[angel_luv]

All right guys... we have been at this for over an hour.


As always, a privilege talking to you.

I have some things to take care of around the house.

Later. :)

[DPG21920]

Oh yes you did. You are simply backpedalling. You goit bailed out by whotttt. You should thank him, otheriwse we would be reapping you a new one for 30 additional pages.

To refresh you memory, here's some of the things you said:



"Act like superstars in the limelight"?

WTF is wrong with you? Manu is probably one of the only NBA superstars (together with TD and a few others) who does not act like a "superstar in the limelight". He was simply answering a question from a fan. This is something he does on a regular basis. Get a fucking clue.


"Spouting off about really inflammatory subjects"?


Again, WTF? He simply said he does not believe in God. How is that inflammatory?

More BS from DPG:




"Incredibly stupid"?

According to who? To you . . . ? Do you realize what a dumbass you are? Saying Manu looks stupid for telling the truth on a topic regading religion, makes you look like a dumbass.





He does it all the time. Keep up with the program. Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling the world you believe or you do not believe in God. Even if you play in the NBA.





Manu is that honest, much to your surprise.






You said he was stupid for being honest. Quit the fucking backpedalling already.




You said he was stupid, not surprising. You actually said incredibly stupid. It's on page two of this thread. Go re-read to refresh your memory.




Get grief from fans simply because he thinks differently? Then those fans are as retarded as you are. Frankly, he wont get more grief than playing for his NT . . . I think not.

Why don't you post the entire quotes and not just the parts that agree with what you say? Ask the others on here that were actually involved in the conversation and heard what I said IN CONTEXT now that I explained? Oh wait, you won't do that because you are a sheep.

[ElNono]

Faith is applied at whatever you believe that you cannot prove 100%.

Oh, that I know. It's the lazy way out. The complete opposite of the scientific method. Why bother doing research when you can just simply tag it to God and be done with it?



the same applies with Evolution.


Evolution is actually scrutinized and tested all the time. Should some evidence come up that contradicts it, then it's thrown away and replaced either by a new theory or a modified version that accounts for the difference in the new evidence. That's the scientific method. That's exactly how we have advanced as a society by building over sound science.


Creationism actually parallels alot with the evidence that Science has. You gotta look it up. For example. The Bible contains so many scientific facts that has proved science wrong years in advance.

Care to show any of these biblical scientific facts that proved scientific laws wrong? I mean, I can definitely show you where science has proved biblical beliefs to be factually wrong.


Also The Bible speaks of a worldwide disaster wiping out the earths population and Science itself has evidence that speaks volumes that this testimony could actually be true.

The bible speaks of many, many things, depending on who reads it, and what message they're trying to deliver. Science, on the other hand, is for the most part factual, and where it isn't, it's actually in pursue of said facts.

You still didn't answer my question... Do you believe man walked with dinosaurs 4000 years ago?

[DPG21920]

Don't have time or will to read whole 29 pages, but still, one question for DPG2192 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014)0 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Europe_belief_in_god.png/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.png
Map shows percentage of positive responses to statement "I believe there is a God." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_belief_in_god.png

So in your opinion, in large part of Europe, believers should keep themselves closeted as not to insult any ubersensitive infidels?

/me takes bill of rights and wipes his ass

Nope. People can say whatever they like. I would be surprised if the most famous people that live in those areas told a bunch of people about their religion on an internet fan forum and opened themselves up to a bunch of people they do not know.

[ElNono]

I did answer you, you just refused to receive it. :)

Actually, I did receive an answer. Just not to the question.


So, what happens if an alien ships shows up first and provide evidence that they created us? I mean, it's just as sound as a theory as God.
What you would believe then? Would you *STILL* believe you're going to be facing God?


How is it plausible to you than aliens could appear to me but not at all conceivable to you that the God of the Universe will appear to you?

We will see who appears and who doesn't.

Spolier alert: Jesus is the only one returning. :)

I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to answer the question. :lol
But you can simply tell me you don't want to answer it, just don't say that you did answer it.

[Shastafarian]

I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to answer the question. :lol
But you can simply tell me you don't want to answer it, just don't say that you did answer it.

Palinology.

[xeromass]

Nope. People can say whatever they like. I would be surprised if the most famous people that live in those areas told a bunch of people about their religion on an internet fan forum and opened themselves up to a bunch of people they do not know.

In short:
You support freedom of speech, but minority should employ don't ask don't tell policy, out of fear that somebody might be offended by their stance. What a pile of self-serving bullshit. BTW, love those gay analogies lol.

He was asked a question. He answered it, truthfully I would think. If for that reason he became less of a person for some small-minded assholes, well they can go fuck themselves. And all others should be thankful that manu doesn't have a contract with Disney. Amen.:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I knew the thread was going to end up here. It was so inevitable.

[Shastafarian]

I knew the thread was going to end up here. It was so inevitable.

Thanks Nostradamus.

[MannyIsGod]

Thanks Nostradamus.

Back to your regularly scheduled twrilling on a stick in the mud.

[Shastafarian]

Back to your regularly scheduled twrilling on a stick in the mud.

I guess that's better than taking pictures of myself playing guitar.

[MannyIsGod]

I guess that's better than taking pictures of myself playing guitar.

That might be relevant if I had 1,360 pics of me playing my guitar.

[Shastafarian]

That might be relevant if I had 1,360 pics of me playing my guitar.

How about writing a blog that no one reads?

[MannyIsGod]

How about writing a blog that no one reads?

You suck as an investigative journalist. While I'm flattered you've taken time out of your crusade to dig up info on me, you should take a bit more time to read dates as well.

[timvp]

Shastafarian vs. Manny? This should be good.

:hungry:

[Shastafarian]

You suck as an investigative journalist. While I'm flattered you've taken time out of your crusade to dig up info on me, you should take a bit more time to read dates as well.

You wrote a blog for a year. I think it got a total of 4 comments. Maybe you should go here

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107071

Unless it gets in the way of you playing acoustic guitar for the ladies.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Shastafarian vs. Manny? This should be good.

:hungry:

No kidding...:ihit

[MannyIsGod]

So let me get this right, you're insulting me because I

A) Wrote a blog

and

B) Play guitar.


You really think this is going to be good LJ? I mean seriously?

I admit I wrote in a blog and I admit I play guitar (for the ladies).

I guess thats that.

[ElNono]

:corn:

[Shastafarian]

So let me get this right, you're insulting me because I

A) Wrote a blog

and

B) Play guitar.


You really think this is going to be good LJ? I mean seriously?

I admit I wrote in a blog and I admit I play guitar (for the ladies).

I guess thats that.

You TOOK A PICTURE of yourself playing guitar. Either that or someone else did and you loved it so much you put it in your profile. You wrote a blog that no one cared about. I think that's funny. Even if you don't.

[MannyIsGod]

You TOOK A PICTURE of yourself playing guitar. Either that or someone else did and you loved it so much you put it in your profile. You wrote a blog that no one cared about. I think that's funny. Even if you don't.

K,

You win.

[I Love Me Some Me]

C'mon...this is gonna be worse than Slice/Petruzelli.

[Shastafarian]

C'mon...this is gonna be worse than Slice/Petruzelli.

Awwww, he doesn't wanna discuss it. Oh well.


K,

You win.

[RandomGuy]

Shastafarian vs. Manny? This should be good.

:hungry:

I'm waitin' for the "yo mama's"...:lol

[Shastafarian]

Well I had to try and own someone after BRHornet clearly owned me in that other thread.

LMAO at you again son! your the one who keeps bringing up our gay romance. look at the threads! your the one who keeps bringing it up not me! I told you from the start that I was just going to hit it and quit it, but you can't seem to accept that and you won't leave me the fuck alone. STOP HARASSING ME WITH PM'S AND EMAILS FOR MORE MAN MEAT! GO ASK MANNYISGOD OR FINDOG FOR SOME!


LOL your telling me son! that thing of yours is loose like a rubber band now ... hence why I don't need it anymore! now leave me alone! no more man meat for you!



Did you? Cuz I think I have several posts where you admit to being gay. I have no problem with gay people. But I have a strong inkling that you do. Please show me how I got "owned". And visual aids of your sexual habits are not necessary, thanks.


lol your too easy son. go to sleep now little one. daddy owned you again.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Whats there to discuss? I wrote in a blog (I know you're capable of running on and on in circles about nothing but really?) which apparently no one read and I have a picture of me playing guitar in my profile.

I suppose we could discuss your level of fascination with me that led you to click not only on my profile but the links within it. Tell me Shash, did your face light up with glee when you thought "zomg i got dirt on mannyisgod" or did you simply make a mess of yourself?

We could discuss how you have managed to annoy even those that sometimes agree with you in this forum with your unending and nonsensical rants or we could just discuss how most of the time you come across as a foaming at the mouth imbecile who thinks that "you wrote a blog that no one read" is some kind of insult.

[ElNono]

Mental note: Update the RPG post...

[Xylus]

Mental note: Update the RPG post...

:lol

That was the best part of the whole thread.

[Spur-Addict]

48TVqttHIuo

[baseline bum]

I can't believe this thread could get any worse than it was at the beginning.

[Shastafarian]

:lmao

Whats there to discuss? I wrote in a blog (I know you're capable of running on and on in circles about nothing but really?) which apparently no one read and I have a picture of me playing guitar in my profile.

I suppose we could discuss your level of fascination with me that led you to click not only on my profile but the links within it. Tell me Shash, did your face light up with glee when you thought "zomg i got dirt on mannyisgod" or did you simply make a mess of yourself?

We could discuss how you have managed to managed to annoy even those that sometimes agree with you in this forum with your unending and nonsensical rants or we could just discuss how most of the time you come across as a foaming at the mouth imbecile who thinks that "you wrote a blog that no one read" is some kind of insult.

It really didn't take much effort. I clicked on your profile. There was a link to your blog. I clicked on that to see if it was worthwhile. It wasn't. I found it humorous. I also noted the picture of you playing a guitar because, frankly, it makes you look like a douchebag. I suspect you are one after reading many of your posts. You seem to think you know it all. I guess you studied political science at...where UTSA? Congrats. I didn't study political science so I'm not up on all the polls you like to break down and analyze.

In the end it's a message board. Do I post things that are annoying? Yeah, sure. Sometimes it's intentional and sometimes I don't think about what I'm typing. Call it impulsive. Sometimes I'm just an idiot. I don't spend a long time reading into the various hidden meanings of people's posts. But I can't say I go around acting like I'm a political expert when in fact, I'm a 20-something student who doesn't know shit.

[MannyIsGod]

Ohhh, did I touch a nerve?

[I Love Me Some Me]

This is like when Zack and Slater fought in the hallways of Bayside High.

[Shastafarian]

Ohhh, did I touch a nerve?

No. Why, did my response sound like I was upset?

[I Love Me Some Me]

http://www.gotgifs.com/albums//zackslaterfight.gif (http://www.gotgifs.com/viewer.php?path=&id=zackslaterfight.gif)

[Shastafarian]

http://www.gotgifs.com/albums//zackslaterfight.gif (http://www.gotgifs.com/viewer.php?path=&id=zackslaterfight.gif)

:lol

damn it looks like Mario didn't pull his punch

[I Love Me Some Me]

:lol

damn it looks like Mario didn't pull his punch

Dude, these are A-list actors...

[Shastafarian]

Dude, these are A-list actors...

Any list, it looks like Zach hit his head pretty hard on that floor

[I Love Me Some Me]

Any list, it looks like Zach hit his head pretty hard on that floor

Don't change the subject, Preppy...say something witty/clever/funny back to Manny.

[RandomGuy]

Why such belligerence. Anyways, my lunch break at work is over; so I won't be able to respond.

Moreover, even if I point these things out, you will try to explain them away as justified acts of reasoning. You have little context to measure the damage that such acts are doing to the church.

But off the top of my head;

1). Proposed laws in California that deny mothers the right to 'homeschool' their children, simply because a few irresponsible parents failed to properly conduct homeschooling sessions. Laws that make it harder to legally sanction the homeschooling practice - requiring mothers to have accredited teaching certificates. This raises the question: Since when has the state been 100% effective at educating its students? Why the double standard? Oh yeah, because most of these 'homeshooled' households have religious reasons for choosing said system as their method of choice. Liberal California lawmakers can't have any of that!!! All children must be instructed by the state at a 75% success clip. No ifs, and, or buts...

2) Proposed laws that want to qualify certain passages in the Bible as "hate speech," and that ministers refrain from preaching about said passages from the pulpit. GOD hates the sin, and loves the human. It is the calling of the church to steer society's burdened souls toward GOD's redemptive love. Calling a sin by its name is not tantamount to condemnation of the sinner.

"beligerence"? :rolleyes "bullshit" is simply a party game, and "calling bullshit" is simply a way of expressing skepticism of your claim. If it makes you happier, I can edit the post to say "bullpuckey" or something less vulgar.


"even if I point these things out, you will try to explain them away as justified acts of reasoning."

Nope. I try to evaluate each claim on its face.

Quite frankly, though, I am a bit skeptical of "victimhood" claims, as it is fashionable these days in this country to claim such status.

As for the "You're not one of us, you just don't get it". Ninja Please.


I will readily give you the fact that the majority of homeschooling is done by people with deep religious convictions. Laws that would make homeschooling harder would tend to impact those people disproportionately. Whether this rises to the level of "persecution" would hinge on the fact that it would be a religious requirement to homeschool. I don't remember reading "thou shalt homeschool" anywhere in the bible, or even that it was implied.

If anybody's faith is so weak that it cannot stand standardized education, I would wonder what kind of responsibility the parents are giving up.

Anyone should be free to practice their religion as long as it does not impact the rest of us.

Having absolutely no minimum standards or accountability for homeschooled children sounds a bit unreasonable.

I would further wonder about what you would say if the majority of homeschooled kids were atheists. Would you then cry "persecution" of atheists, if such minimum educational standards were enacted?

[Shastafarian]

Don't change the subject, Preppy...say something witty/clever/funny back to Manny.

I would but I think he left. I guess he didn't think the conversation was suitable for his intellect.



*waits for rebuff*

[timvp]

Damn, Manny goes with the rope-a-dope tactic and then lands the knockout blow.

:lmao

[Shastafarian]

Damn, Manny goes with the rope-a-dope tactic and then lands the knockout blow.

:lmao

Not really. I responded to his thoughts that I was "fascinated" by him but he just up and left. Like I said, he must feel this conversation doesn't properly stimulate his large mutant brain.

[timvp]

Not really. I responded to his thoughts that I was "fascinated" by him but he just up and left. Like I said, he must feel this conversation doesn't properly stimulate his large mutant brian.

:huh

[Shastafarian]

:huh

Go back and read my response to him.

[timvp]

Go back and read my response to him.

Who's brian?

[Shastafarian]

Who's brian?

There I fixed my typo.

[RandomGuy]

There I fixed my typo.

I think tim knew what you meant, but was just effing with you. :lol

[Shastafarian]

I think tim knew what you meant, but was just effing with you. :lol

I know. He's a dick. Maybe I should go around and look for all his typos.

[smeagol]

Why don't you post the entire quotes and not just the parts that agree with what you say?


The whole quote has the same meaning of the extract I chose.




Ask the others on here that were actually involved in the conversation and heard what I said IN CONTEXT now that I explained?


No need to ask anybody anything. Just say you made a mistake saying that was Manu said was stupid. Or do you still believe he sadi soomething stupid? (please answer the question)




Oh wait, you won't do that because you are a sheep.



I'm not a sheep. I simply read a bunch of stupid posts written by you and I responded to them.

[smeagol]

Sometimes I'm just an idiot.

[DPG21920]

The whole quote has the same meaning of the extract I chose.







No need to ask anybody anything. Just say you made a mistake saying that was Manu said was stupid. Or do you still believe he sadi soomething stupid? (please answer the question)




I did not say what he thought nor said was stupid. I still do not think it was stupid. The only thing I referenced as stupid was opening yourself up to people you do not know in the context of the other questions. I said I am shocked he was so honest and open because most people are not, especially famous people.



I'm not a sheep. I simply read a bunch of stupid posts written by you and I responded to them.

How come you did not respond to the later post where things were clarified and explained once the sheep dispersed? Oh wait you did, you said it was back peddling. Clarification is not back peddling.

[smeagol]

I did not say what he thought nor said was stupid. I still do not think it was stupid. The only thing I referenced as stupid was opening yourself up to people you do not know in the context of the other questions.

WTF is wrong with you? How hard is it to say "I made a mistake".

This is post # 34, from page 2 of this thread. What you said is that by saying he does not believe in God, Manu is given the "fans" an inflammatory answer.



I do not think any less of Manu. I think that if this is true he was incredibly stupid for posting such a inflammatory answer on the world wide web. No judgments on what he believes. But in this world in which he lives, he must be more careful with what he says. It brings a lot of negative attention (believer or not) to a team that does not value that (especially after how he is viewed bc of the injury).


This post is wrong in so many levels.



I said I am shocked he was so honest and open because most people are not, especially famous people.


Does shocked = stupid?

No.

So you did not say "shocked". You said "stupid".

Stop going in fucking circles.




How come you did not respond to the later post where things were clarified and explained once the sheep dispersed? Oh wait you did, you said it was back peddling. Clarification is not back peddling.


Why should I? Unless your later posts said, "I made a mistake" or "My word choice was extremely poor", to which I would've responded with a

:tu

Until then, I will keep pounding your earlier posts, because of the level of stupidity in them.

[MannyIsGod]

Ouch. I guess its hard to keep track of what you say in 150+ posts.

[Shastafarian]

Sometimes I'm just an idiot

Yes. Unlike some people here I can admit that I don't know everything and that I'm wrong sometimes.

[ALVAREZ6]

Another thing manu and I have in common :tu

[DPG21920]

Ouch. I guess its hard to keep track of what you say in 150+ posts.

It says exactly what I said it did. I did not call Manu stupid. I said it was stupid to post an answer like that and be so open to people. That is all. I have already said I should of done a better job of communicating what I meant, and people should of done a better job of comprehending or asking for clarification. But since it is such a sensitive subject people read into things so much.

[DPG21920]

WTF is wrong with you? How hard is it to say "I made a mistake".

This is post # 34, from page 2 of this thread. What you said is that by saying he does not believe in God, Manu is given the "fans" an inflammatory answer.





This post is wrong in so many levels.





Does shocked = stupid?

No.

So you did not say "shocked". You said "stupid".

Stop going in fucking circles.






Why should I? Unless your later posts said, "I made a mistake" or "My word choice was extremely poor", to which I would've responded with a

:tu

Until then, I will keep pounding your earlier posts, because of the level of stupidity in them.

Why the hell would I have to apologize to you? Who the hell are you? You were not even a part of the original conversation. I have already explained myself to you, I do not have to apologize. You keep saying I said stupid, I said it ONE FUCKING TIME. I said surprised and shocked much more so obviously that is my real take.

[DPG21920]

Ouch. I guess its hard to keep track of what you say in 150+ posts.

Its funny how you tell another guy that making fun of your blog and guitar picture is not really an insult and act like your little comments about something of mine that is similar to a blog (an online forum) is such an awesome ownage. Very lame.

[MannyIsGod]

I wasn't making fun of you for the number of posts but rather smeagol pretty much owning you with your own words. Its ok Killer, calm down. Just admit you were wrong. Its not a difficult thing to do.

[Shastafarian]

Its funny how you tell another guy that making fun of your blog and guitar picture is not really an insult and act like your little comments about something of mine that is similar to a blog (an online forum) is such an awesome ownage. Very lame.

Hypocrisy is a trait of Douchebagius maximus.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW are you sure you want to lecture people on comprehension problems if you want to equate someone saying "you have a blog" as an insult to someone proving you're wrong about what your own words say? Just asking.

[DPG21920]

BTW are you sure you want to lecture people on comprehension problems if you want to equate someone saying "you have a blog" as an insult to someone proving you're wrong about what your own words say? Just asking.

I was not wrong as much as I was inefficient in explaining what I meant. I already admitted that, what more do you want? He did not own me with my own words. He pointed out one post where I said the word stupid and ignored the 50 where I said shocked and surprised.

[Phenomanul]

"beligerence"? :rolleyes "bullshit" is simply a party game, and "calling bullshit" is simply a way of expressing skepticism of your claim. If it makes you happier, I can edit the post to say "bullpuckey" or something less vulgar.

You can say whatever you wish... The use of that phrase however (regardless of the profanity) is a direct attack on my person. You basically implied that I was lying. If you disagreed with my statement, all you had to do was ask for examples that would support my claim.

What you did was call me out by saying, "Liar... proove it!"

There is a tactful difference between the two approaches. One elicits genuine discussion, the other an annoyed sigh.




"even if I point these things out, you will try to explain them away as justified acts of reasoning."

Nope. I try to evaluate each claim on its face.

Very well then....



Quite frankly, though, I am a bit skeptical of "victimhood" claims, as it is fashionable these days in this country to claim such status.

I don't believe this statement applies.

First I should clarify that to me, persecution comes in all shapes, forms and colors... it can be subtle or overt. In the U.S. persecution of the church has progressed in a subtle manner...

Anyways, I stated my case (as I was finishing my lunch break no less). I brought up two examples of secularist movements in our society that are trying to marginalize believers through legal means... There is no 'victim' label attached... I simply highlighted that their motives were anti-religious.

Don't worry though, one day you and everyone in your camp will be happy when churches are pushed underground. When the mere mention of spirituality elicits ridicule and scorn... or further still, imprisonment. --- How's that for extreme assumptions... I guess we all can make them.

What's ironic is that athiest lobbyists are usually the first ones to complain when evangelicals lobby our government. They can't have it both ways. Personally I'm of the camp that believes Americans have the Constitutional right to shape the laws that govern the land... Democracy should win out. Wishing that this right be denied to another sector in society simply because they happen to disagree with you is a faschist concept.



As for the "You're not one of us, you just don't get it". Ninja Please.

More like, "You're not a Christian, as such you don't value the same ideals or understand the subtleties of their impact on our lives".

You may feel you've read just about everything there is to know about "Christians" and their belief system; but until you profess your faith in Christ, and are tranformed by His presence your perspective will forever remain limited/incomplete/skewed. The proverbial, "you're on the outside looking in" applies. And no...it's not elitist to suggest that... 'tis simply the nature of the concept.



I will readily give you the fact that the majority of homeschooling is done by people with deep religious convictions. Laws that would make homeschooling harder would tend to impact those people disproportionately. Whether this rises to the level of "persecution" would hinge on the fact that it would be a religious requirement to homeschool.

You think California lawmakers/lobbyists weren't aware of this disproportionality?



I don't remember reading "thou shalt homeschool" anywhere in the bible, or even that it was implied.

The Hebrew/Jewish culture was built on homeschooling. Mothers were responsible for teaching their children the law and their heritage. Fathers then took their sons and taught them their trade. Besides, it's a rather anachronistic expectation to request that the word "homeschool" be found anywhere in Scripture.

Having said that, one of the fundamental parenting responsibilities found in GOD's Word is that parents instruct their children to have appropriate "fear of the LORD" - Bible-speak for "respect and reverence towards GOD". Homeschooling allows for that respect and that relationship to be instilled. But that's just it, this very dynamic is what so enrages secularists everywhere... particularly the atheistic brand. All of a sudden, they become concerned over the curricula of homeschooled children and imply that these children need to be removed from their 'oppressive', 'academically unsatisfactory' environments (they would like to equate the homeschooling process with 'brainwashing' tactics... and so create more bias against it).

While defficiencies exist for a minority of households, parents that homeschool are inherently, by definition, very interested in the development of their children. Oddly enough, the same homeschooling detractors who express "genuine" concern towards these children conveniently lose it when it involves the lives of the unborn in wombs across the world. Go figure... :rolleyes (but that's another topic for another time).

Not to be lost in the discussion, homeschooled children eventually grow up into adulthood (like everyone else) and adopt whatever philosophy suits their fancy. That's right... ultimately their life choices are up to them. I guess the other camp would like to pretend that this eventuality fails to arrive for homeschoolers too... they merely take the lazy approach and arbitrarily label them brainwashed "sheeple".

Believe it or not, it is our Christian belief in free will, and the understanding of its cosmic implications that permits us to accept another's choices. We may disagree with what someone else chooses to do, but we inherently understand that the choice is theirs... as well as the consequences of their actions. Many Christian children end up learning life's difficult lessons through varying degrees of rebelion against the wishes of their parents. A loving parent, hence, will allow them to suffer through some of the consequences of their actions as part of the maturation process... though, I admit, this tactic is not exclusive to the Christian worldview.

Anyways, the agendas I mentioned earlier want to nip this bud at the stem - i.e. homeschooling - particularly because most homeschool households are Christian... Doing so, would hurt a significant back-bone of America's Christian sector. But then again, that's the point - their goal...



If anybody's faith is so weak that it cannot stand standardized education, I would wonder what kind of responsibility the parents are giving up.

Is standardized education all that better?



Anyone should be free to practice their religion as long as it does not impact the rest of us.

The basic premise outlined by the concept of "Separation of Church and State" one which I happen to believe in, and a view I mentioned was endorsed by the Bible.



Having absolutely no minimum standards or accountability for homeschooled children sounds a bit unreasonable.

Standards and accountability are needed, yes... I agree. Let's not forget that homeschooled children still have to pass state exams, college entrance exams etc... Furthermore, homeschooled children fair as good as or better than their public school peers on academic tests (as far as I know, through personal experience, articles etc...). Court cases assessing this very dynamic are on record. It's in the state's interest to know and assess the academic development of every child, because it has a bearing on the future posterity and functioning of our society; our nation.

Forcing parents to obtain accredited teaching certificates however (at an expense of roughly $6,500 for 5 years in California - at least in the area where my sister lives) is economically harsh. Such a law is meant to dissuade people from considering homeschooling as a practical option... meant to tip the scales.



I would further wonder about what you would say if the majority of homeschooled kids were atheists. Would you then cry "persecution" of atheists, if such minimum educational standards were enacted?
Depends on the motives for such laws.


Edit: Oh and none of this addresses the not-so-subtle, more overt movement that wishes to label certain biblical passages as "hate speech".

A third example I failed to mention earlier was Ohio's dismissal of a highly successful religious-based prison program that effectively reduced the state's recidivism rate. The grounds of its dismissal? It was a religious based program - not a secular one (the type that haven't effectively worked for over a century). Activist judges at work for everyone, YAY!!!

[smeagol]

It says exactly what I said it did. I did not call Manu stupid. I said it was stupid to post an answer like that and be so open to people.

Do you still feel this way? Do you still think it was stupid of him answering the "WHat does God mean in your life" question with the truth? (I'm asking because there seems to be two DPGs: One for the first 5 pages and another one for the rest of the thread).



I have already said I should of done a better job of communicating what I meant,

You still have not done a good job. So I ask again: Do you think Manu was stupid for addressing with the truth his belief in God in his own forum?



and people should of done a better job of comprehending or asking for clarification

Huh? People shoul've done a better job comprehending? Who do you think you are, you pompous fuck?

You say a fucking stupid comment about Manu's truthful answer to a simple question and it is the people reading your posts who have to do a better job at understanding you?

You are a fucking piece of work . . .



But since it is such a sensitive subject people read into things so much.


People read what you wrote and reacted. Plain and simple.

[smeagol]

Why the hell would I have to apologize to you?

I said you should say "I made a mistake". That is not a true appology. So no, you don't have to appologize.



Who the hell are you?

The guy who points out how stupid you are when you say a retarded comment such as the one that deviated this thread from a simple translation of a Manu set of questions and answers session into a debate about the existance of God.



You were not even a part of the original conversation.


I'm sorry I got to this thread so late. Nevertheless, not sure why this disqualifies my opinion.



I have already explained myself to you, I do not have to apologize.


You did a piss poor job explaining yourself and as long as you maintain that Manu was stupid for answering truthfully a question about his beliefs, I guess there will be room to debate the issue.



You keep saying I said stupid, I said it ONE FUCKING TIME.


Once is enough.



I said surprised and shocked much more so obviously that is my real take.


But you said stupid before saying surpirsed or shocked.

[carina_gino20]

I don't want to open another can of worms, but someone recently posted this in his forum. It's from an interview last year, after the championship.


¿Creés en Dios?

–Creo que algo hay, que algo existe. Pero no sé cómo opera… En realidad, no rezo ni me aferro a cábalas.

http://www.gente.com.ar/nota.php?ID=13522

[angel_luv]

I don't want to open another can of worms, but someone recently posted this in his forum. It's from an interview last year, after the championship.



http://www.gente.com.ar/nota.php?ID=13522

Will someone translate it please?

You can private message it to me, if you don't want to re open a whole new discussion on here.

Thanks. :)

[hater]

this getting worse. Manu is equating Christianism to pure superstitions

:lmao

[carina_gino20]

I'm not very sure, but I think he says that he believes there is something, that something exists. But he doesn't know how it works...

Not sure about the last phrase.

Any of our Spanish-speaking friends want to translate?

[Cherry]

I read it some time ago:

¿Creés en Dios?

–Creo que algo hay, que algo existe. Pero no sé cómo opera… En realidad, no rezo ni me aferro a cábalas.

Do you believe in God?

-"I think Something out there exists (god exists) but i don't know how it works...actually i don't pray or get cábalas" (like lucky charms)

[ElNono]

I read it some time ago:

¿Creés en Dios?

–Creo que algo hay, que algo existe. Pero no sé cómo opera… En realidad, no rezo ni me aferro a cábalas.

Do you believe in God?

-"I think Something out there exists (god exists) but i don't know how it works...actually i don't pray or get cábalas" (like lucky charms)

Por Favor!!!!! An actual exact translation follows... draw your own conclusions:

Do you believe in God?

- I think there's something, that something exists. But I don't know how it operates... Realistically speaking, I don't pray or wrap myself around 'cabalas'.

I should explain what Argentinean call a 'cabala': A cabala is when you do some things that you think will bring you luck. The typical example is that you used a certain pair of shoes, and you won a game, so the cabala would be that you wear the same shoes the next game, because it's giving you some kind of luck.

[hater]

I should explain what Argentinean call a 'cabala': A cabala is when you do some things that you think will bring you luck. The typical example is that you used a certain pair of shoes, and you won a game, so the cabala would be that you wear the same shoes the next game, because it's giving you some kind of luck.

like I said "superstition"

[Cherry]

Por Favor!!!!!


Perdón!, no sabía que un traductor profesional se ofendería tanto!!! :lol

[DPG21920]

Well Manu is entitled to his opinion, but I would be shocked if he does not believe in god.


That is a loose translation and he could be joking or it could be taken out of context. Manu is smart and I highly doubt even if he did not believe that he would post it for the world to read. Who is he Josh Howard?

These are my very first two posts on the subject Smeagol. The very first thing I said was "shocked". The very next thing I said was he is "smart". Then the very next thing I said was that I would doubt he would post it for the world to read.

This goes in-line with everything I have explained. The word "shocked" and the word "smart" come well before (in fact on page 1) the word "stupid". Then surrounding the word "stupid" the words "shocked" and "surprised" come numerous times. So shut up. Being pompous has nothing to do with being annoyed at jackass like you that wants to contort what I said and meant for no damn reason just to join the club.


I have told the truth about what I meant, you can see the very first posts from the very first page. So shut the hell up already. You are probably going to try and make up a different argument or call me a name that does not apply just because you cannot and will not comprehend something. You are getting caught up on one small part, ignoring all the things that came before and after and then even reading into the small thing with malice. No wonder you are getting so worked up.

[tp2021]

The parts you bolded are exactly what you got flack for in the first place. It implies that an atheist would have to be stupid to tell people he is an atheist.

[DPG21920]

The parts you bolded are exactly what you got flack for in the first place. It implies that an atheist would have to be stupid to tell people he is an atheist.

NOOOOOOOOO. That is exactly NOT what I meant. This is how shit started in the first place. It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a believer. The only thing people should be arguing with me about is how much I may have overstated that RELIGION IN GENERAL is a hot topic. All I said was that with such a hot-topic (which I already agreed I may have overstated) that I would not think he would be so open or honest because people do not usually open themselves up like that. That is all. I was concerned that on some type of level he might catch what Josh Howard did (even though that might be a stretch, which I already admitted). This has nothing to do with him actually being "smart" or "dumb" or his actual beliefs.

I explained this to you already TP. Once again, people read into it as I am calling atheist dumb for talking, and when I am writing it does not even enter my mind. Maybe a poor choice of words but I am surprised people read into things so quickly and judge so harshly. Especially since I have clarified.

[hater]

NOOOOOOOOO. That is exactly NOT what I meant. This is how shit started in the first place. It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a believer. The only thing people should be arguing with me about is how much I may have overstated that RELIGION IN GENERAL is a hot topic. All I said was that with such a hot-topic (which I already agreed I may have overstated) that I would not think he would be so open or honest because people do not usually open themselves up like that. That is all. I was concerned that on some type of level he might catch what Josh Howard did (even though that might be a stretch, which I already admitted). This has nothing to do with him actually being "smart" or "dumb" or his actual beliefs.

I explained this to you already TP. Once again, people read into it as I am calling atheist dumb for talking, and when I am writing it does not even enter my mind. Maybe a poor choice of words but I am surprised people read into things so quickly and judge so harshly. Especially since I have clarified.


newsflash, religion is not a hot topic anymore. maybe in the 18th century it was seen as "bad" to talk openly about not beleiving. This is a new era.

You my friend need to stop living in the past and get with the program. Nowadays it is ok to say I don't beleive in God. wake up.

[tp2021]

NOOOOOOOOO. That is exactly NOT what I meant. This is how shit started in the first place. It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a believer. The only thing people should be arguing with me about is how much I may have overstated that RELIGION IN GENERAL is a hot topic. All I said was that with such a hot-topic (which I already agreed I may have overstated) that I would not think he would be so open or honest because people do not usually open themselves up like that. That is all. I was concerned that on some type of level he might catch what Josh Howard did (even though that might be a stretch, which I already admitted). This has nothing to do with him actually being "smart" or "dumb" or his actual beliefs.

I explained this to you already TP. Once again, people read into it as I am calling atheist dumb for talking, and when I am writing it does not even enter my mind. Maybe a poor choice of words but I am surprised people read into things so quickly and judge so harshly. Especially since I have clarified.

That's all you had to say. :)

[DPG21920]

Do you still feel this way? Do you still think it was stupid of him answering the "WHat does God mean in your life" question with the truth? (I'm asking because there seems to be two DPGs: One for the first 5 pages and another one for the rest of the thread).

I never thought it was stupid, so NO FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME I DO NOT FEEL THAT WAY. I am still surprised he even answered it because I thought he would do what he did with the "CAR" question and just say I would rather not talk about it. Whether he believes or not, I just thought he would avoid opening himself up to people he does not know. That is all.



You still have not done a good job. So I ask again: Do you think Manu was stupid for addressing with the truth his belief in God in his own forum?


NO FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME (AGAIN). See above posts and previous post.


Huh? People shoul've done a better job comprehending? Who do you think you are, you pompous fuck?

You say a fucking stupid comment about Manu's truthful answer to a simple question and it is the people reading your posts who have to do a better job at understanding you?

You are a fucking piece of work . . .


Well considering I have come right out and answered your questions and you keep going back and digging up one post, interpreting it incorrectly and keep asking me the same Damn question over and over (in the same post), then yes, some people should do a better job in understanding. If I tell you an answer and you do not agree, you just keep asking the same question and trying to refute the answer I am going to give you.



People read what you wrote and reacted. Plain and simple.

Oh yeah, because no one on SpursTalk ever jumps the gun or gangs up on someone....plenty of people have heard what I had to say, they may not of agreed with it 100%, but it did not deserve all of the grief that people like you are giving me.

[ElNono]

Perdón!, no sabía que un traductor profesional se ofendería tanto!!! :lol

Cherry, no te enojes... es que se targiversa lo que dijo. Decir 'algo' no quiere decir automaticamente 'dios'. Nada mas.

Saludos

[DPG21920]

I said you should say "I made a mistake". That is not a true appology. So no, you don't have to appologize.

Call a spade a spade. You asking me to say I made a mistake, is the same damn thing as asking for an apology.



The guy who points out how stupid you are when you say a retarded comment such as the one that deviated this thread from a simple translation of a Manu set of questions and answers session into a debate about the existance of God.


That turned into a debate about God not because of me. But because of misunderstanding. I in no way shape or form was implying anything about his religious beliefs or my own. All I was referencing was a sensitive subject being discussed by someone famous so openly. That has nothing to do with the existence of God or not. I am very open minded, please read my posts on the matter.



I'm sorry I got to this thread so late. Nevertheless, not sure why this disqualifies my opinion.


You coming in with attack mode disqualifies you, not your opinions.



You did a piss poor job explaining yourself and as long as you maintain that Manu was stupid for answering truthfully a question about his beliefs, I guess there will be room to debate the issue.


See previous multiple post on the broken record question.



Once is enough.





But you said stupid before saying surpirsed or shocked.

I already showed you my first two post in the thread that disproves that.

[remingtonbo2001]

I wonder if this question has been taken out of context.

As many have precluded, the English language is very unique in the way sentences are structured. I'm wondering, more or less if Manu takes the Einstein approach that God is more super-personal than personal.

As translated...

Autumn: Answer a question please! What meaning does God have in your life?
Manu: I am not Believing!

Therefore, by answering in such a way, Manu's comments do not commit him to a religion, or personal relationship with God, such as being a Christian.



But do you understand what I am saying? One could interpret Manu's comments as a statment that God does not have any (personal) meaning in Manu's life, which would be different than saying Manu does not believe in the existance of God.

I'm asking these questions because the English language can be tricky when dealing with translations. However, I'll take the opinions of other native Argentinians regarding the translation.


He said, without a doubt, the he does not believe in God.
Let me make it more clear, so there's no second guessing about the translation: The expression he used is the expression used in our country to say that you don't believe in God. We normally don't go as far as distinguishing wether you're agnostic or atheist, we just say wether we believe or not. He doesn't.


I read it some time ago:

¿Creés en Dios?

–Creo que algo hay, que algo existe. Pero no sé cómo opera… En realidad, no rezo ni me aferro a cábalas.

Do you believe in God?

-"I think Something out there exists (god exists) but i don't know how it works...actually i don't pray or get cábalas" (like lucky charms)


Por Favor!!!!! An actual exact translation follows... draw your own conclusions:

Do you believe in God?

- I think there's something, that something exists. But I don't know how it operates...

So, my comments did have some validity. It reasonable to assume that Manu takes a super-personal approach.

[smeagol]

Ok DPG.

Peace :tu

[MannyIsGod]

Ok DPG.

Peace :tu

You broke the man's spirit.

[baseline bum]

You broke the man's spirit.

Maybe it's best to never argue with someone who can't be wrong (see Whottt also).

[ElNono]

So, my comments did have some validity. It reasonable to assume that Manu takes a super-personal approach.

Well, you interpret it any way you want. You will anyways.
IMO, it doesn't get any more clear than 'No soy creyente'. No doubts whatsoever with a statement like that.

[smeagol]

Well, you interpret it any way you want. You will anyways.
IMO, it doesn't get any more clear than 'No soy creyente'. No doubts whatsoever with a statement like that.

In putting the two comments together, I would not rule out a conversion to Christianity . . .

[ElNono]

In putting the two comments together, I would not rule out a conversion to Christianity . . .

Actually, it would be the other way around. The interview mentioned was from a year ago. He said 'no soy creyente' last week.

[smeagol]

Actually, it would be the other way around. The interview mentioned was from last year. He said 'no soy creyente' last week.

The fact he said (last year) that he believed there is a higher power, proves he is not an atheist, regardless of him saying last week he is a non-believer.

For 10 years, between the ages of 20 and 30, I was a non-believer, but being raised a Catholic, I always kept in the back of my mind, the idea of a higher power (even though in that 10 year period i totally denied the possibility of a personal God).

Since then I have re-encountered Jesus and the Church. I don't see why this cannot happen to Manu.

[temujin]

Could the fine theologists of the basketball forum "Spurstalk" PLEASE elaborate on the following concepts from the well known 6th man thinker.

1) Holy trinity.
2) Holy Spirit.
3) Baptism and confirmation.

I will appreciate your contribution.

[DPG21920]

You broke the man's spirit.


Maybe it's best to never argue with someone who can't be wrong (see Whottt also).

LOL, Since when did responding to every single question qualify as having a broken spirit. You keep reaching Manny. This is not that important, it is the internet, not a blog. I acknowledged many different people's views. I can be wrong, but was not in this case knowing what I truly meant and said. What was jumped on by someone so sensitive as you baseline, that was misinterpreted (somewhat my fault) does not mean I was wrong. I conceded many points, you still have not. Sometimes religious nuts (even ones that do not believe) can overreact and are sensitive.

[MannyIsGod]

Damn dude, you even over react to a joke.

:lmao

[ElNono]

The fact he said (last year) that he believed there is a higher power, proves he is not an atheist, regardless of him saying last week he is a non-believer.

For 10 years, between the ages of 20 and 30, I was a non-believer, but being raised a Catholic, I always kept in the back of my mind, the idea of a higher power (even though in that 10 year period i totally denied the possibility of a personal God).

Since then I have re-encountered Jesus and the Church. I don't see why this cannot happen to Manu.

But that higher power can be anything. Can be mother nature (which he actually did bring up in some conversations), God, or anything in between.
He might have suspected once that there was something, but realized after a while that there isn't. This is the thing: I don't really care wether Manu believes in god or not. He might actually realize later in life that religion works for him, and start believing. There's nothing wrong with that.
Somewhere this thread derailed into this thing where religious and non-religious people tried to impose their views. That has nothing to do with Manu.
Now, when people asked for a translation of what he said, we provided it. Do you think the translation was wrong or misleading?

[angel_luv]

The fact he said (last year) that he believed there is a higher power, proves he is not an atheist, regardless of him saying last week he is a non-believer.

For 10 years, between the ages of 20 and 30, I was a non-believer, but being raised a Catholic, I always kept in the back of my mind, the idea of a higher power (even though in that 10 year period i totally denied the possibility of a personal God).

Since then I have re-encountered Jesus and the Church. I don't see why this cannot happen to Manu.


:tu :tu
Amen. :)

[JoeChalupa]

I don't see why it matters to anyone what Manu does or does not believe. The man can play some ball!!

[angel_luv]

I don't see why it matters to anyone what Manu does or does not believe. The man can play some ball!!

I care because Eternity is a reality and in the light of eternity, Manu's basketball career accounts for just a minute, even if it is years long.

I care about Gino and his long term well being.

For the record, I care about you and your long term well being too. :)

[smeagol]

But that higher power can be anything. Can be mother nature (which he actually did bring up in some conversations), God, or anything in between.

The way he responded: "Creo que algo hay, que algo existe" leads me to believe (and I could be wrong) it is not nature, but something more closer to God.

This is obviously my opinion, so please do not rip me a new one.



He might have suspected once that there was something, but realized after a while that there isn't.


That could well be the case.


This is the thing: I don't really care wether Manu believes in god or not. He might actually realize later in life that religion works for him, and start believing. There's nothing wrong with that.

Agreed.



Somewhere this thread derailed into this thing where religious and non-religious people tried to impose their views.


Not me. I got hooked on this thread beacause of what DPG said (or was it what DGP did not say :lmao)



Now, when people asked for a translation of what he said, we provided it. Do you think the translation was wrong or misleading?

I think the translations were accurate.

[DPG21920]

Damn dude, you even over react to a joke.

:lmao

My bad, just hard to translate over the internets! I even threw a joke in my response to you though!

[JoeChalupa]

I care because Eternity is a reality and in the light of eternity, Manu's basketball career accounts for just a minute, even if it is years long.

I care about Gino and his long term well being.

For the record, I care about you and your long term well being too. :)

I understand that but his belief doesn't change my view of him at all. But I know where you are coming from.

[ElNono]

The way he responded: "Creo que algo hay, que algo existe" leads me to believe (and I could be wrong) it is not nature, but something more closer to God.
This is obviously my opinion, so please do not rip me a new one.
That could well be the case.
Agreed.
Not me. I got hooked on this thread beacause of what DPG said (or was it what DGP did not say :lmao)
I think the translations were accurate.

:tu

[angel_luv]

I understand that but his belief doesn't change my view of him at all. But I know where you are coming from.

And I understand share your view as well. Manu is a fantastic basketball player. :)

[DPG21920]

You son of a bit** Smeagol, jk. One thing for sure is that I never tried to impose my religious beliefs on anyone. I made sure to avoid confusion in that arena.

[temujin]

Either Ginobili is a terrible basketball player OR he is one of the leading thinkers of our times.

I don't remember 36 pages for just one basket of his, as there are 36 for one of his sentences.

Emanuel "Plato" Ginobili.

[ElNono]

I care because Eternity is a reality and in the light of eternity, Manu's basketball career accounts for just a minute, even if it is years long.

I care about Gino and his long term well being.

For the record, I care about you and your long term well being too. :)

Honest question: Wether Manu believes in god or not really has that much of an impact in your life?

Dishonest comment: You still didn't answer my question :lol

[ElNono]

Either Ginobili is a terrible basketball player OR he is one of the leading thinkers of our times.

I don't remember 36 pages for just one basket of his, as there are 36 for one of his sentences.

Emanuel "Plato" Ginobili.

I'm actually wondering if the thread bitching about his foul on Nowitzki was this long...

[timvp]

I care because Eternity is a reality and in the light of eternity, Manu's basketball career accounts for just a minute, even if it is years long.Angel, if Manu remains atheist for the rest of his life, will he got to hell?

Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

Angel, if Manu remains atheist for the rest of his life, will he got to hell?

:stirpot:

Thanks.

FYP

[timvp]

I'm actually wondering if the thread bitching about his foul on Nowitzki was this long...I wish Manu would have believed in listening to Pop during that preceding timeout.

:pctoss

[baseline bum]

LOL, Since when did responding to every single question qualify as having a broken spirit. You keep reaching Manny. This is not that important, it is the internet, not a blog. I acknowledged many different people's views. I can be wrong, but was not in this case knowing what I truly meant and said. What was jumped on by someone so sensitive as you baseline, that was misinterpreted (somewhat my fault) does not mean I was wrong. I conceded many points, you still have not. Sometimes religious nuts (even ones that do not believe) can overreact and are sensitive.

You're so full of shit. You said one thing and then backtracked and denied your words after the whole board called you out for being a moron.

[baseline bum]

Angel, if Manu remains atheist for the rest of his life, will he got to hell?

Thanks.

I already asked that and got no response.

[angel_luv]

Honest question: Wether Manu believes in god or not really has that much of an impact in your life?





Do I obsess about the decisions Manu makes? No.
Do I hope and pray Manu makes choices that brings blessings on him and his family- absolutely!


It is not as if I think about Manu constantly, much as I like and respect him.
Long gone are the days in which I had time to think of any one thing constantly- though I still strive to include Jesus in all I do.

The short answer: Manu is one of my favorite players, so whenever I think of him, I pray all the best for him.


Dishonest comment: You still didn't answer my question :lol
I have attempted to answer so many questions in this thread. Are you still referring to the answer I tried to give you but you refused? :)

[DPG21920]

You're so full of shit. You said one thing and then backtracked and denied your words after the whole board called you out for being a moron.
I did not say one thing and backtrack. You just overreacted and read into my comments with disdain because it touched a nerve with you. Granted I could of chosen my words more wisely to avoid "upsetting" someone like you, but that does not change what I know I meant by my words. Call it what you will.

This is exactly what I was talking about. People (who are nuts and oversensitive like Baseline) going nuts on a pro athlete over nothing:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Shane-Victorino-s-abiding-love-for-Spam-dish-ang?urn=mlb,115113

Shane Victorino has finally arrived.

And I say that not because of the grand slam he hit off CC Sabathia in the NLDS, the onfield brawl he almost sparked with the Dodgers in Game Three of the NLCS or the game-tying two-run homer he hit in Game Four.

I say that because the Phillies centerfielder has finally become enough of a public figure to draw the ire of PETA, a fine group of folks who never met a publicity opportunity they didn't take advantage of.

So what did Victorino do to earn a scolding note from PETA assistant director Dan Shannon?

Well, he has publicly declared that Spam musubi is his favorite food in the entire world. Even though many of us have an aversion to the blue-and-yellow can, the pork product-'n-rice treat is actually very popular in Victorino's native Hawaii.

But the Flyin' Fryin' Hawaiian's love for a local delicacy doesn't quite fly with PETA and they're using the opportunity to shed light on a recent investigation they did on Hormel's pork suppliers:

"We suspect that the cruelty in every can of Spam will infuriate Shane more than a high Hiroki Kuroda fastball," says Shannon. "If Shane likes Spam a lot, he should buy tickets to the Broadway play but leave it off his dinner plate."

Shannon also sent Victorino a letter detailing Hormel's abuses (read it here) as well as a reminder that it once named Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Ballpark the most vegetarian-friendly in the major leagues. A Phillies spokesman said he will ask Victorino for comment after the World Series.

PETA certainly has a right to raise awareness of their issues, but here's one thing I don't think Shannon took into account before making this protest public: If the Phillies win the World Series, can you imagine just how many Phillies fans will either buy cans of Spam, either to send to Victorino or have him autograph them at the victory parade? Don't forget about the Victorino-as-a-Spam can costumes, such as this one.

Heck, with the way he's been performing this postseason, I wouldn't be surprised to see Philadelphians work a bit of Spam into their cheesesteaks.

[remingtonbo2001]

I don't see why this cannot happen to Manu.

KX5jNnDMfxA

There's always a chance. :)

[baseline bum]

I did not say one thing and backtrack. You just overreacted and read into my comments with disdain because it touched a nerve with you. Granted I could of chosen my words more wisely to avoid "upsetting" someone like you, but that does not change what I know I meant by my words. Call it what you will.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Stupid people (who are nuts an oversensitive like Baseline) going nuts on a pro athlete over nothing:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Shane-Victorino-s-abiding-love-for-Spam-dish-ang?urn=mlb,115113

Shane Victorino has finally arrived.

And I say that not because of the grand slam he hit off CC Sabathia in the NLDS, the onfield brawl he almost sparked with the Dodgers in Game Three of the NLCS or the game-tying two-run homer he hit in Game Four.

I say that because the Phillies centerfielder has finally become enough of a public figure to draw the ire of PETA, a fine group of folks who never met a publicity opportunity they didn't take advantage of.

So what did Victorino do to earn a scolding note from PETA assistant director Dan Shannon?

Well, he has publicly declared that Spam musubi is his favorite food in the entire world. Even though many of us have an aversion to the blue-and-yellow can, the pork product-'n-rice treat is actually very popular in Victorino's native Hawaii.

But the Flyin' Fryin' Hawaiian's love for a local delicacy doesn't quite fly with PETA and they're using the opportunity to shed light on a recent investigation they did on Hormel's pork suppliers:

"We suspect that the cruelty in every can of Spam will infuriate Shane more than a high Hiroki Kuroda fastball," says Shannon. "If Shane likes Spam a lot, he should buy tickets to the Broadway play but leave it off his dinner plate."

Shannon also sent Victorino a letter detailing Hormel's abuses (read it here) as well as a reminder that it once named Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Ballpark the most vegetarian-friendly in the major leagues. A Phillies spokesman said he will ask Victorino for comment after the World Series.

PETA certainly has a right to raise awareness of their issues, but here's one thing I don't think Shannon took into account before making this protest public: If the Phillies win the World Series, can you imagine just how many Phillies fans will either buy cans of Spam, either to send to Victorino or have him autograph them at the victory parade? Don't forget about the Victorino-as-a-Spam can costumes, such as this one.

Heck, with the way he's been performing this postseason, I wouldn't be surprised to see Philadelphians work a bit of Spam into their cheesesteaks.

Go fuck yourself. Everyone here can see you're covering your ass after making a stupid suggestion that Manu should keep his thoughts to himself only because his stance was controversial and went against the grain.

[angel_luv]

Angel, if Manu remains atheist for the rest of his life, will he got to hell?

Thanks.

Mark 16:14-16

Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

[angel_luv]

I already asked that and got no response.

I apologize for not answering you. I missed your question.

[baseline bum]

Mark 16:14-16

Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

So he'll go to hell then?

[angel_luv]

I have to go guys. I am switching shifts at work.

[tp2021]

Nice!
:lmao :lmao
:rollin

[angel_luv]

So he'll go to hell then?

Sadly, yes.

I hope with all my heart that Gino chooses Christ so that does not happen to him.

[ElNono]

Mark 16:14-16

Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

:lmao

Sorry, I couldn't help it...

[MannyIsGod]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!! Manu's going to hell!!!

[MannyIsGod]

I already thought Manu was going to hell for not tipping and for playing in these past olympics but at least we now have conformation.

[hater]

Sadly, yes.

I hope with all my heart that Gino chooses Christ so that does not happen to him.


don't worry angel. Manu is going to fullfill his dream and play along with Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, Kobe and many other stars in Team Hell.

[baseline bum]

Sweet... I'm going to ask Manu for some help on my jumper in hell! Maybe he and I can hit the strip-club together. I'll make sure to be buried with a fistfull of singles.

[DPG21920]

Go fuck yourself. Everyone here can see you're covering your ass after making a stupid suggestion that Manu should keep his thoughts to himself only because his stance was controversial and went against the grain.

Do you kiss your lover with that mouth? Nope, you seem to be the only one that cannot admit they overreacted. Many people now looking back at what I wrote (which has not changed) and hearing myself clarify have no problem with it. You just got soooooooo offended because you thought someone was imposing their beliefs or implying that your beliefs were wrong. That was not the case, and you are just as bad a PETA.

[tp2021]

don't worry angel. Manu is going to fullfill his dream and play along with Kareem, Jordan, Kobe and many other stars in Team Hell.

Scream Team?

Wish-We-Could-Redeem Team?




They both sound better than the Thunder.

[Spurminator]

Manu was already damned for being a false god. Church of Manu, and all...

[DPG21920]

Sweet... I'm going to ask Manu for some help on my jumper in hell! Maybe he and I can hit the strip-club together. I'll make sure to be buried with a fistfull of singles.

She is not mocking your beliefs, why are you mocking hers?

[hater]

now that I think of it, Team Hell Basketball is gonna be stacked. poor Team Heaven

[ElNono]

now that I think of it, Team Hell Basketball is gonna be stacked. poor Team Heaven

Sucks I don't believe in the afterlife...

[DarrinS]

Sorry, didn't read the 30+ pages of this thread.


Why is everyone obsessed with Manu's religious beliefs?

[baseline bum]

Do you kiss your lover with that mouth? Nope, you seem to be the only one that cannot admit they overreacted. Many people now looking back at what I wrote (which has not changed) and hearing myself clarify have no problem with it. You just got soooooooo offended because you thought someone was imposing their beliefs or implying that your beliefs were wrong. That was not the case, and you are just as bad a PETA.

I'm not the only one to call you out for being a jackass. I'm just the first.

[baseline bum]

She is not mocking your beliefs, why are you mocking hers?

LMAO.... and you call me out for being oversensitive? :lol

[DPG21920]

I'm not the only one to call you out for being a jackass. I'm just the first.

So you were the first to overreact and still going, huh? You are the one who turned it into a religious battle. Not me. I believe in your right to do as you please. I do not and have not mocked your beliefs or anyone's.

[Phenomanul]

now that I think of it, Team Hell Basketball is gonna be stacked. poor Team Heaven

I don't know.... the starting center for Team Heaven will be David Robinson...

Mark Price as the starting PG won't cut it... I guess we could shift Dwight Howard over to power forward...

Ok... they won't have a chance in hell... errr... against Team Hell...

[tp2021]

Sorry, didn't read the 30+ pages of this thread.


Why is everyone obsessed with Manu's religious beliefs?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2162/2235581532_20dfd51148.jpg?v=0

[DPG21920]

LMAO.... and you call me out for being oversensitive? :lol

If a believer would of wrote something similar towards your beliefs you would of started cussing them out and whining like a little kid. Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

[baseline bum]

I don't know.... the starting center for Team Heaven will be David Robinson...

Mark Price as the starting PG won't cut it... I guess we could shift Dwight Howard over to power forward...

Ok... they won't have a chance in hell... errr... against Team Hell...

We got Kobe and Wilt. You God-boys got no chance.

[ElNono]

Sorry, didn't read the 30+ pages of this thread.

Why is everyone obsessed with Manu's religious beliefs?

Apparently he's going straight to hell, and that has some people concerned...

[hater]

I don't know.... the starting center for Team Heaven will be David Robinson...


well you forget DRob won jack shit w/out Duncan. And Duncan is going to hell for skipping church and playing Dungeon Dragons instead which is a nono in most religions.

[DarrinS]

I don't know.... the starting center for Team Heaven will be David Robinson...

Mark Price as the starting PG won't cut it... I guess we could shift Dwight Howard over to power forward...

Ok... they won't have a chance in hell... errr... against Team Hell...


Team Hell would be coached by Bob Night and owned by Mark Cuban.

[DPG21920]

Team Hell would be coached by Bob Night and owned by Mark Cuban.

That is funny

[ElNono]

well you forget DRob won jack shit w/out Duncan. And Duncan is going to hell for skipping church and playing Dungeon Dragons instead which is a nono in most religions.

Plus we got SHAQ bitches!

[DarrinS]

Apparently he's going straight to hell, and that has some people concerned...


Not if he doesn't believe in Hell.

[Spurminator]

Mark Price as the starting PG won't cut it...

Iverson.

[Phenomanul]

We got Kobe and Wilt. You God-boys got no chance.

Except for the part where team hell shows up to play in the heavenly courts completely dehydrated from having burned continuously in hell.... All the while, Team heaven has been drinking it up at the fountain of Life....

[Kermit]

Iverson.

Dude better start confessing.

[baseline bum]

Plus we got SHAQ bitches!

We got Ice and Elliott too.... not to mention the most athletic PF of all-time: Shawn Kemp. Sadly, we've also got choking-ass Malone.

[xtremesteven33]

Manu is not an atheist. Hes agnostic at the least.

[ElNono]

Not if he doesn't believe in Hell.

Not according to whottt. See, if you're a tree or a rock or a feral child or a horse, you're actually going to hell wether you like it or not. The explanation is somewhere within this thread.

[Phenomanul]

Iverson.

Yeah... but he doesn't believe in "practice"....

You know what they say, "Practice is next to Godliness"..... oh wait....

[ElNono]

Did this thread just turn into a basketball conversation? :lol

[Kermit]

Except for the part where team hell shows up to play in the heavenly courts completely dehydrated from having burned continuously in hell.... All the while, Team heaven has been drinking it up from the fountain of Life....

Plus, you'll have Wilt trying to dip his wick in angel poon...

[ElNono]

Manu is not an atheist. Hes agnostic at the least.

Because?

[DarrinS]

Team Hell should be forced to play in Cleveland or Sacramento and wear Phoenix Suns creamsicle orange unis.

[baseline bum]

We got Yao too, since Commies don't believe.

[DPG21920]

We got Ice and Elliott too.... not to mention the most athletic PF of all-time: Shawn Kemp. Sadly, we've also got choking-ass Malone.

Elliott does not believe in God?

[baseline bum]

Halftime show by Nas


When I was 12, I went to hell for snuffing Jesus

[Phenomanul]

Plus, you'll have Wilt trying to dip his wick in angel poon...

He won't have time for that...

Team hell will be distracted by trying to find the most covert way of defecting... like when Cubans play exhibition games in the U.S.

[ElNono]

Bad News... McCain made the team... :td

[DPG21920]

Team Hell will have a lot of cheerleader distractions

[hater]

Manu could always hope to get into heaven via a trade

[Kermit]

Bad News... McCain made the team... :td

I didn't know Team Hell was drafting P.O.W.'s.

[DarrinS]

Team Hell will have a lot of cheerleader distractions


Don't make me bust out my vintage rainbow sweater, bitches!

Sincerely,

Larry Brown

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/denver/LBrownDenCoach.jpg

[remingtonbo2001]

Except for the part where team hell shows up to play in the heavenly courts completely dehydrated from having burned continuously in hell.... All the while, Team heaven has been drinking it up at the fountain of Life....

+1

Lest not forget to mention our MVP, Jesus.

Hell doesn't stand a chance. It didn't 2000 years ago and it doesn't now.

[Phenomanul]

+5 RPG damage for sidetracking all the bickering....

[ElNono]

I didn't know Team Hell was drafting P.O.W.'s.

Cheating on your wife gives you preferential seats in Hell stadium.