San Antonio Spurs vs. Portland Trail Blazers Game Thread

[Obstructed_View]

I guess we will see but I recall comments stating Hill could have even played the last preseason game...that was over a week ago. I believe, if Pop thought he could help his team win, Hill would have been out there...at least for spot duty and some hustle on defense (which they needed badly).

Yeah, but as bad as it is, it could always be worse. If Hill has a 50 percent chance of reinjuring the hand and having to be out for an extended period, but those chances drop to 10 percent after the first two or three games, then I'd be willing to sacrifice those games to get him healthy. The Spurs are shorthanded now, but imagine if Hill had to have surgery and was out for most of the season with Manu out for another month.

[Buddy Holly]

I guess we will see but I recall comments stating Hill could have even played the last preseason game...that was over a week ago.

And Manu was able to play in all the of last seasons playoffs. Even the Olympics!

See what happens when you play injured? When you don't let your injury fully heal. :wow:wow:wow:wow


I believe, if Pop thought he could help his team win, Hill would have been out there...at least for spot duty and some hustle on defense (which they needed badly).

Well that's why they pay you the big bucks.

[Manufan909]

I think that's probably a fair observation, but it doesn't change my belief that it was a mistake. The team was thin on the front line, yet the Spurs committed to several smaller offense oriented guards (Mason, Farmer, Stoudamire) and even an offense oriented forward in order to cover his bets, while ignoring the much greater odds that a 38 year old forward might not be as quick or durable as he'd been over the past several years and might expose the lack of shot blocking once people got past him. Scary that we're all looking forward to the return of Oberto so we can have some size and defense on the team.

+1

I'm sad (but also ashamed to admit it) that I'm looking forward to Oberto coming back. Fuck it, he is a decent center, but Watkins would've torn it up in this game imo. Maybe the blocks would've been even if he had some time. I'm glad Mason is a shining light so far.

[mexicanjunior]

I was hoping Pop would put him in today. But it's understandable why he hasn't.


You finally got 1 thing right...he hasn't shown Pop enough to play him over Vaughn. I'm glad his 3 preseason game stats have you so juiced...what kind of timeframe are we looking at before it's not just his injury that is keeping him from taking over Vaughn's role? I suppose, with the right diagnosis, you could keep this act up for the full season... :lol

Classic man, just classic... :rollin

[mexicanjunior]

And Manu was able to play in all the of last seasons playoffs. Even the Olympics!

See what happens when you play injured? When you don't let your injury fully heal. :wow:wow:wow:wow

So now your argument is "look what Manu did"? Your right man, those injuries were exactly the same...I love your medical analogies Dr. Holly... :lol



Well that's why they pay you the big bucks.

When it comes to being on the Spurs payroll...I'm sure you have me scoreboarded with those great injury reports... :rollin

[Buddy Holly]

You finally got 1 thing right...he hasn't shown Pop enough to play him over Vaughn.

Holy shit, you even couldn't get an obvious statement correct. I can understand why he doesn't play him... BECAUSE HE WANTS THE INJURY TO FULLY HEAL.


I'm glad his 3 preseason game stats have you so juiced...what kind of timeframe are we looking at before it's not just his injury that is keeping him from taking over Vaughn's role?

Probably when you're the GM or head coach of the Spurs.



Classic man, just classic... :rollin

I just don't know whether your putting up this "I ate paint chips as a child" act or if you're really just this goddamn clueless?

[ElNono]

Oberto got 'injured' after we waived Hairston, and I believe Tolliver's mother passed away the same day Hairston got cut. I don't think the FO has a crystal ball that sees the future. I think they thought they'll start the season with 5 bigs and one more injured, but we just had a tough stretch. What you gonna do? Now we just need to look forward to getting some guys back and start winning games.

[Obstructed_View]

The thing about Watkins is that he doesn't know the defense, and might have given up points being out of position or gotten himself into foul trouble like Bonner did. The Blazers didn't do their damage at the rim anyway, and Watkins wouldn't be out covering Aldridge 20 feet from the rim. A center would have been nice, but Oberto's the only one that could have helped tonight.

[mexicanjunior]

Yeah, but as bad as it is, it could always be worse. If Hill has a 50 percent chance of reinjuring the hand and having to be out for an extended period, but those chances drop to 10 percent after the first two or three games, then I'd be willing to sacrifice those games to get him healthy. The Spurs are shorthanded now, but imagine if Hill had to have surgery and was out for most of the season with Manu out for another month.

As I said earlier, I guess we will see. What do you want to give Hill...a month? 2 months? Eventually he will take Vaughn's role right? At some point, it's not going to be because his wrist hurts (eventhough he has already been cleared to play according to ESPN)...we'll see what happens.

[ElNono]

+1

I'm sad (but also ashamed to admit it) that I'm looking forward to Oberto coming back. Fuck it, he is a decent center, but Watkins would've torn it up in this game imo. Maybe the blocks would've been even if he had some time. I'm glad Mason is a shining light so far.

The reason you're craving for Oberto is because Bonner blows. Is not that Oberto is that good, is that Matt has been terrible.

[Buddy Holly]

So now your argument is "look what Manu did"? Your right man, those injuries were exactly the same...I love your medical analogies Dr. Holly... :lol

No, that was a simple anecdote that reflects what the hell I'm trying to get past your ant sized brain.

You think just because he was cleared to play, that because he's in his uniform that he's not injured that he's able to play.

Can you piece the puzzles together now?


When it comes to being on the Spurs payroll...I'm sure you have me scoreboarded with those great injury reports... :rollin

Do you know every time you post, a cute little puppy is killed. Stop Posting.

[mexicanjunior]

I just don't know whether your putting up this "I ate paint chips as a child" act or if you're really just this goddamn clueless?

The feeling is mutual pal... :toast

[Buddy Holly]

The feeling is mutual pal... :toast

Except not.

[mexicanjunior]

Do you know every time you post, a cute little puppy is killed. STOP POSTING!

Again, the feeling is mutual pal... :toast

[mexicanjunior]

Except not.

I feel the same way... :toast

[Obstructed_View]

Oberto got 'injured' after we waived Hairston, and I believe Tolliver's mother passed away the same day Hairston got cut. I don't think the FO has a crystal ball that sees the future. I think they thought they'll start the season with 5 bigs and one more injured, but we just had a tough stretch. What you gonna do? Now we just need to look forward to getting some guys back and start winning games.

And to top it off, Pop would never have cut Tolliver just because his mother died and the Spurs needed the bodies off the bench. There was clearly a commitment to offense over defense, and Pop seemed to be much more stressed about finding replacements for Horry and Barry than he was about finding replacements for Elson and Bowen.

[Buddy Holly]

Well, that about ends this argument with what can only be a kid who's wild and free because he's friday night and there's no school tomorrow.

Bye.

[ElNono]

And to top it off, Pop would never have cut Tolliver just because his mother died and the Spurs needed the bodies off the bench. There was clearly a commitment to offense over defense, and Pop seemed to be much more stressed about finding replacements for Horry and Barry than he was about finding replacements for Elson and Bowen.

Pop has had a boner for Tolliver since the SL. Don't ask me why.

[underdawg]

No, that was a simple anecdote that reflects what the hell I'm trying to get past your ant sized brain.

You think just because he was cleared to play, that because he's in his uniform that he's not injured that he's able to play.

Can you piece the puzzles together now?



Do you know every time you post, a cute little puppy is killed. Stop Posting.

Wow - y'all have taken a trivial argument and dragged it out into a moronic argument. Good use of time and energy. By the way, name calling and insults really goes a long way to validate your argument. Be the bigger man/woman and let it go.

[mexicanjunior]

Well, that about ends this argument with what can only be a kid who's wild and free because he's friday night and there's no school tomorrow.

Bye.

Goodnight Dr Holly...I'll miss your expert sideline analysis. Be sure to set the alarm for your paper route... :toast

[Buddy Holly]

This message is hidden because mexicanjunior is on your ignore list.

Congrats. The first person I've ever put on Ignore.

Not to mention this little lame ass is from Dallas. :lol

Explains it all.

[Obstructed_View]

As I said earlier, I guess we will see. What do you want to give Hill...a month? 2 months? Eventually he will take Vaughn's role right? At some point, it's not going to be because his wrist hurts (eventhough he has already been cleared to play according to ESPN)...we'll see what happens.

Manu's going to be back in a month, so I'd expect to see Hill back in two or three games at the most, but probably against the Mavericks. I don't know that I've ever said that he immediately needs to take Vaughn's spot, but clearly that's what Pop has in mind for him. There just isn't any evidence from preseason or the newspapers that Pop has lost any confidence in George. He's been cleared to play, but Pop has already said he doesn't want to put him out there with the brace on his hand. Nothing that's happened isn't perfectly in line with these facts. Until something new comes along to disprove it, I don't see how it's so impossible to believe that Pop just doesn't want to get him hurt. Parker's heavy minutes are evidence that Pop isn't viewing JV as a backup.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop has had a boner for Tolliver since the SL. Don't ask me why.

It's all those threes he hit. It's basically the only thing he's done since we first heard his name. Even if Pop didn't feel that way about him, Tolliver wasn't going to lose his spot on the roster because his mom died, no matter how short handed they were. It just wouldn't have happend. I'd imagine that Pop would have screwed the team before he stomped on the kid like that.

[mexicanjunior]

Congrats. The first person I've ever put on Ignore.

Not to mention this little lame ass is from Dallas. :lol

Explains it all.

I know you can't read this but I could never set you on ignore...your posts are too comical for me to punish myself by not reading them.

BTW, I live in Dallas but I was born and raised in San Antonio, way to jump to conclusions. You indeed are good for a giggle Dr. Holly... :toast

[Buddy Holly]

Tolliver wouldn't still be a Spur if it were because of the three's he hit in summer league.

That probably placed him in camp but he is a hustle player who isn't afraid to shoot.

Heck, Mason had a crummy preseason too but look at what he's doing when it counts.

[ElNono]

It's all those threes he hit. It's basically the only thing he's done since we first heard his name. Even if Pop didn't feel that way about him, Tolliver wasn't going to lose his spot on the roster because his mom died, no matter how short handed they were. It just wouldn't have happend. I'd imagine that Pop would have screwed the team before he stomped on the kid like that.

Well, Im sure we'll see plenty of him over the season to draw conclusions. We're a bit out of luck right now too. I look back at these two games and I remember Grant Hill hitting a lucky trey at the end of the 3rd quarter, and another one today from Roy. Any of those not going in and it's a game changer. If we have to go through this rough patch, I rather go through it now and not later in the season.

[Obstructed_View]

Tolliver wouldn't still be a Spur if it were because of the three's he hit in summer league.

That probably placed him in camp but he is a hustle player who isn't afraid to shoot.

Heck, Mason had a crummy preseason too but look at what he's doing when it counts.

Mason was already under contract, so it's not remotely the same situation. Tolliver was a traning camp invite, and is a Spur only because of the threes he hit in summer league, because all the hustle in the world doesn't mean much if you can't draw iron on half your shots.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, Im sure we'll see plenty of him over the season to draw conclusions. We're a bit out of luck right now too. I look back at these two games and I remember Grant Hill hitting a lucky trey at the end of the 3rd quarter, and another one today from Roy. Any of those not going in and it's a game changer. If we have to go through this rough patch, I rather go through it now and not later in the season.

Roger really fucked up there at the end of the first half, and that three ended up hurting as much as the one Hill banked in.

[mexicanjunior]

There just isn't any evidence from preseason or the newspapers that Pop has lost any confidence in George.

I would argue that trying to sign Pargo, and giving Salim an opportunity, was a sign that he didn't believe Hill could carry that kind of load. Don't get me wrong...I am still a Spurs fan and would love to see Hill upgrade our backup PG position enough to win us some games. I just call it like I see it...we shall see.

BTW, thanks for making your points in a respectful manner and not resorting to name calling to argue your point...it's a refresing change of pace. ;)

[Buddy Holly]

Mason was already under contract, so it's not remotely the same situation.

Well, Tolliver was/is under contract as well.

What I meant by the comparison is that because he had a crummy preseason doesn't mean he'll play the same way in the regular season.

I think there's a reason besides the great shooting in the summer league that has kept him a Spur.

FYI, MJ, check your PMs.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, Tolliver was/is under contract as well.

I suck at the business part of basketball, but if he had one, I don't think he had a guaranteed contract when he was invited to camp. I even think there was a deadline for cutting camp players and not being out any additional money. The Spurs committed every penny of Mason's contract to him before he ever dribbled a ball in their gym. The level of commitment is all I'm talking about.


What I meant by the comparison is that because he had a crummy preseason doesn't mean he'll play the same way in the regular season.
Oh, and nobody hopes that's true more than I do. Roger at least looked like an NBA player. He was reluctant to shoot but he handled the ball well, and he was pretty good in the final preseason game. Tolliver wasn't much of a shooter, defender or rebounder in the preseason, so I absolutely hope he shows more when he comes back. I just hope he's active for most of the games; at this point I'm not even optimistic about that.


I think there's a reason besides the great shooting in the summer league that has kept him a Spur.
Well if you ever find out what it is I'd love to hear about it. :)

[Obstructed_View]

I would argue that trying to sign Pargo, and giving Salim an opportunity, was a sign that he didn't believe Hill could carry that kind of load.

I'd say that some of that is true. Getting guys like Farmer and Green and Salim was an attempt to get some scorers, particularly after Hill looked pretty abysmal in summer league. That said, we all knew Hill was a big time scorer and figured as long as he played defense and ran the team well he was going to have a chance, particularly once his shot came back. From the way Hill played in preseason and from what Pop has said about his job, it's not a great leap to suggest that Pop values him so highly that he doesn't want to put him out there with a splint on his hand and still risk having him reinjured.

[Buddy Holly]

I suck at the business part of basketball, but if he had one, I don't think he had a guaranteed contract when he was invited to camp. I even think there was a deadline for cutting camp players and not being out any additional money. The Spurs committed every penny of Mason's contract to him before he ever dribbled a ball in their gym. The level of commitment is all I'm talking about.

To this moment his contract is still non-guaranteed. It becomes guaranteed at a certain point, which I forget.

But once he was signed, he was signed.

[Obstructed_View]

To this moment his contract is still non-guaranteed. It becomes guaranteed at a certain point, which I forget.

But once he was signed, he was signed.

So they still aren't committed to him the way they are to Mason.

[TheMACHINE]

OMG...put on ESPN now!

[T Park]

Had they run some plays for Mason, and had Mason as well been more agressive in the first half, this is a totally different ball game.

Mason has got to be more selfish with the basketball, but I like where his head is at.

[Manufan909]

OMG...put on ESPN now!

Why?

[duncan228]

Why?

They're re-running the game.

[Manufan909]

I see now... I don't feel like watching the Spurs lose again.

[polandprzem]

Has Duncan blocked one shot this season and pre-season?


SPURS HAD zero BLOCKS

[polandprzem]

And damn:

TD & TP are playing 40 minutes per game at the begining of a season.

Not fricking good!

[Manufan909]

I think Tony can handle it, but I agree with you on Tim not be a 35+ min guy anymore.

[benefactor]

And damn:

TD & TP are playing 40 minutes per game at the begining of a season.

Not fricking good!
You must have missed the part where Oberto and Tolliver were not playing in the first two games.

[SenorSpur]

The thing I'll never understand is why our FO seems so opposed to bringing in young, long, althletes like Trav Outlaw or Trevor Ariza... they are the game now, and we don't have a single one.


Exactly. It's almost like Pop has a deliberate aversion to young, athletic players. Ian is the very first draft choice that's was developed here since 2001 (Tony Parker). Absolutely atrocious.

[We born to be bad]

Did you watch the 2008 playoffs?

and you idiot?

you watch last game against our team in the third quarter when the spurs couldn't score and how fabi and udoka saved your ass in that quarter?
you watch fabi's work against hornets? even the hornets coach was really high on his work ...the only bigmen in your team who can pass the ball to duncan and gives him easy basket and you pberto lazzy, panzy, a lot of s...?
you watch the assist of the night spurs 2008 playoffs?

4mkRLvbt9mQ&feature=related

fabi's injured and you talks craps? you're a dumbass.
the spurs fan hate fabi? ok. bring us oberto. amare shaq oberto. it sounds good!

[bdictjames]

I think this is where we could've used Barry.

We need a playmaker out there. Parker's not one, Manu's injured.. seriously we don't have one that can run around the floor and make plays.

[Obstructed_View]

Barry is a playmaker, and Parker isn't?

[anakha]

I think this is where we could've used Barry.

We need a playmaker out there. Parker's not one, Manu's injured.. seriously we don't have one that can run around the floor and make plays.

:lmao

Parker is coming off a game where he scored or assisted on at least 46 Spurs points, and he's not a playmaker? WTF?

[Obstructed_View]

Hairston was so good he had half the NBA claim him off waivers.

Oh wait . . .

Sorry for necroing this post, but something occurred to me and I thought I'd mention it. Hairston was so good that Pop waited until the absolute last second to cut him, so that the other teams were set in their rosters and couldn't claim him. That was deliberate. You don't believe that he'd still be sitting out there if he'd been the first cut, do you?

[Manufan909]

:lmao

Parker is coming off a game where he scored or assisted on at least 46 Spurs points, and he's not a playmaker? WTF?

In bdict's world it is perfectly logical. Fortunately, none of us live in that world.

[anakha]

Sorry for necroing this post, but something occurred to me and I thought I'd mention it. Hairston was so good that Pop waited until the absolute last second to cut him, so that the other teams were set in their rosters and couldn't claim him. That was deliberate. You don't believe that he'd still be sitting out there if he'd been the first cut, do you?

Given the injury circumstances of the Spurs, is it an absolute given that they will make a play for Hairston (jettisoning Farmer if need be) once Ginobili's back?

[timvp]

:lmao

Parker is coming off a game where he scored or assisted on at least 46 Spurs points, and he's not a playmaker? WTF?Yeah, Parker had a hand in 20 of the Spurs 29 fourth quarter points this last game and he's not a playmaker. That included four consecutive assists to cut a 12 point lead down to a two point lead in a matter of 90 seconds. But that's not good enough for Spurs fans.

Amazing.


Sorry for necroing this post, but something occurred to me and I thought I'd mention it. Hairston was so good that Pop waited until the absolute last second to cut him, so that the other teams were set in their rosters and couldn't claim him. That was deliberate. You don't believe that he'd still be sitting out there if he'd been the first cut, do you?Yeah, I think he'd probably be out there. Second round picks get cut all the time before the seasons starts and its very rare for them to latch on to another team right away. I can't even think of an example of that happening. Heck, the Spurs cut a much higher pick last year (Marcus Williams) and it took him playing well in D-League for him to get scooped up.

Hairston was decently impressive in preseason but there's not much there to label him much higher than a run of the mill talent. I think he'd be a good player for the Spurs to have around but if I'm another team, I don't see enough there to run out and pick him up.

We'll see if Hairston remains a free agent into D-League season. I expect if he plays well in Austin, the Spurs will cut Farmer and sign him to regain his rights. If he doesn't play too well in Austin, they'll probably continue to risk it.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, he's going to have to continue to improve. I liked the old days where Pop would give you a chance if you just played defense, and I'm obviously disappointed that guys like Gist and Hairston didn't end up on the team. I like an 81-75 win a whole lot more than a 102-99 loss.

[Obstructed_View]

Given the injury circumstances of the Spurs, is it an absolute given that they will make a play for Hairston (jettisoning Farmer if need be) once Ginobili's back?

There are no guarantees of anything, except when Pop develops a crush. I like Farmer, but I wanted him and Hairston to make the team over Tolliver, who's shown very little other than the ability to be tall when someone measures his height. If LJ's right, and second round picks don't get scooped up, then I'm okay with Hairston developing in Austin. If he's a legitimate defender and a bonafide NBA player he'll make the Spurs roster eventually. I just didn't want him to get away based upon what little I've seen of him.

[pauls931]

I never thought much of Barry thinking he was just a white stiff that could launch 3's but after seeing the alternative on the spurs, I think you miss him. I wish Phoenix could have picked him up.

[SenorSpur]

Hairston was decently impressive in preseason but there's not much there to label him much higher than a run of the mill talent. I think he'd be a good player for the Spurs to have around but if I'm another team, I don't see enough there to run out and pick him up.


I don't think it's a good idea to rush to judgement on this kid, because we've not seen enough of him to know for sure. If Bowen keeps up his current slide, the Spurs may need to inject him, or a player of his ilk, sooner than later.

[SenorSpur]

Sorry for necroing this post, but something occurred to me and I thought I'd mention it. Hairston was so good that Pop waited until the absolute last second to cut him, so that the other teams were set in their rosters and couldn't claim him. That was deliberate. You don't believe that he'd still be sitting out there if he'd been the first cut, do you?

I thought about that possibility of a CIA move too. I guess we'll have to wait until Manu comes back before we know.

[Obstructed_View]

I never thought much of Barry thinking he was just a white stiff that could launch 3's but after seeing the alternative on the spurs, I think you miss him. I wish Phoenix could have picked him up.

Barry was anything but a white stiff in Seattle. He was a great shooter, a great passer and could run the offense for you. He wasn't really any of those things as a Spur. I only miss him because he's a nice guy to have on the team. I do prefer him to Finley, but that's not really saying much so far. Finley's had a better first two games than Barry has.

[anakha]

Barry was anything but a white stiff in Seattle. He was a great shooter, a great passer and could run the offense for you. He wasn't really any of those things as a Spur.

Wasn't Barry playing PG in Seattle? IIRC, the system there allowed for a lot of freelancing, which favors Barry's skills.

Hindsight being 20/20, the Spurs' structured offense wasn't really the best fit for him.

[Obstructed_View]

Wasn't Barry playing PG in Seattle? IIRC, the system there allowed for a lot of freelancing, which favors Barry's skills.

Hindsight being 20/20, the Spurs' structured offense wasn't really the best fit for him.

It might have been if Barry had pulled the trigger a little more. I don't put Barry's relatively disappointing stint with the Spurs on anyone but Barry.

[The Franchise]

It might have been if Barry had pulled the trigger a little more. I don't put Barry's relatively disappointing stint with the Spurs on anyone but Barry.

You have to give some blame to the system. If you are asked to play out of your comfort zone, it can have your out on the floor thinking instead of just playing. I can't say that is definitely it, but he seems to be getting the green light in Houston. Whenever he's been open he doesn't seem to be shy about shooting it, and it may be because he has been allowed to. In San Antonio unless you are one of the big three you play your role period. If you don't you may never see the light of day again.

[Obstructed_View]

You have to give some blame to the system. If you are asked to play out of your comfort zone, it can have your out on the floor thinking instead of just playing. I can't say that is definitely it, but he seems to be getting the green light in Houston. Whenever he's been open he doesn't seem to be shy about shooting it, and it may be because he has been allowed to. In San Antonio unless you are one of the big three you play your role period. If you don't you may never see the light of day again.

I'll give you some benefit of the doubt because you're not a Spurs fan, but Pop has been screaming to the rooftops for a long time that shooters need to shoot. Nobody's light was any more green than the one for Bones. His only job on this team was to shoot when open, and sometimes when not so open, and he didn't do it. It's great for the Rockets that he's pulling the trigger, even when there's someone running at him within ten feet, but it didn't happen here. I'd submit that Brent was far more comfortable with the Spurs' system after years here than he is with the Rockets' system after two games. That actually doesn't bode well for his future there.

[E20]

Desmond reminds me a lot of Stephen Jackson. I think we should just keep him, you never know, he might mesh in with the Spurs. I'm liking Mason's start, he's the third best Spur right now. Other than that Spurs need to stay a couple games above 500 until Manu comes back.