Noooo, Spurs re-sign Bonner

[AFBlue]

You will need a big front line to match up with the Lakers. Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Kobe, Artest, Fisher.

So does every other team in the league. The frontlline size of the Lakers is one of the biggest reasons why they're going for a three-peat this next year, so it would be nice to have size to match up.

Unfortunately, Bonner isn't the answer.

[coyotes_geek]

Bonner at the 3 spot would allow you to spread the floor better. Add a quick penetrating guard and put good three point shooting 2 up there and that would really open things up.

Bonner at the 3 spot would allow the other team's 3 to score a lot of points.

[Borosai]

Bonner would be able to play SF, but not regularly. If he has enough foot speed to stay with a fast hobbit, he's not going to suck against a SF in that regard. But that doesn't mean he won't get abused in other ways. It all depends on who he's guarding.

I smell something... oh, that's what it is... CHAMPIONSHIP!

[J_Paco]

Bonner at the 3 spot would allow you to spread the floor better. Add a quick penetrating guard and put good three point shooting 2 up there and that would really open things up.

Having Bonner at the three-point line and past the foul-line circle allows the other team to destroy us on the defensive glass. Plus, he's notoriously weak at rebounding in traffic at the other end.

[angelbelow]

The only way Bonner at the 3 would work is in VERY specific match up scenarios. If the other team has a stiff 3 then it might work, if the other has a player that is slower than bonner then it might work..

And did someone say that he can fill the role like AK47? AK47 doesnt even like the SF and is more effective as a PF anyways.. not to mention that hes multi-talented.

[Dex]

More speculation:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Matt-Bonner-inks-deal-with-Spurs-looks-to-spend?urn=nba,255923


Thanks to the Spurs — who just gave Bonner a 4 year, $16 million contract — the red-headed sharpshooter can now afford a lot of sandwiches.

[kaji157]

I cannot it is so hard for us to offer good contracts to the Scolas and Splitters out there but no one hesitates to give Matt Bonner 4 millions a year...

It makes me puke... Bonner must know some dark stories about our guys in the FO.

[PURO SAN ANTO 210!]

Fuck boner !!!!!!

[tp2021]

More speculation:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Matt-Bonner-inks-deal-with-Spurs-looks-to-spend?urn=nba,255923

That's no credible source. Just some blogger, and I think he hasn't even been the editor of that blog for too long. From earlier posts in this thread it seems the contract is closer to 10-11 mil, not 16

[tp2021]

My thinking regarding the speculated 16 mil being bogus is
A) Why would Bonner get offered more $ than Tiago?
B) Why would Tiago accept less $ than Bonner?
C) If Bonner wanted to stay in SA, why would we overpay to keep him?

[MannyIsGod]

4 years from now the Spurs will be playing the lottery.

This is why I don't get why people are up in arms over possibly this contract or giving RJ a long term deal. Yeah, those deals suck but when you're in a rebuilding phase then it really doesn't matter because you're likely not going to be very competitive.

SOMONE will have to be paid during those years and the Spurs will more than likely be terrible so who really cares if Bonner or Jefferson are overpaid for a few years? Its not going to hinder rebuilding in the least.

[RiverwalkParade]

This is why I don't get why people are up in arms over possibly this contract or giving RJ a long term deal. Yeah, those deals suck but when you're in a rebuilding phase then it really doesn't matter because you're likely not going to be very competitive.

SOMONE will have to be paid during those years and the Spurs will more than likely be terrible so who really cares if Bonner or Jefferson are overpaid for a few years? Its not going to hinder rebuilding in the least.

Because it's bad business to overpay someone just because "someone will have to be paid."

If you're going to be bad, and it's unavoidable, at least be bad on a reasonable budget.

Look at the Nets right now, didn't land a big free agent, so they are making value signings, and will probably have good odds at the #1 pick in the lottery again this year. Find your franchise in the draft, and keep money to build around tha player.

"so who really cares if BONNER or JEFFERSON are overpaid for a few years????" What a stupid question.

[MannyIsGod]

Because it's bad business to overpay someone just because "someone will have to be paid."

If you're going to be bad, and it's unavoidable, at least be bad on a reasonable budget.

Look at the Nets right now, didn't land a big free agent, so they are making value signings, and will probably have good odds at the #1 pick in the lottery again this year. Find your franchise in the draft, and keep money to build around tha player.

"so who really cares if BONNER or JEFFERSON are overpaid for a few years????" What a stupid question.

As a fan why do I care if the Spurs practice bad business? I care about finances only in so far as they matter to the competitiveness to a team. In other words I care about contracts the Spurs give out at the moment only in so far as they affect the salary cap and the Spurs options to sign necessary players.

In the middle of rebuilding I really couldn't care less about a few extra million spent on these guys for a couple of years because I don't care about Holt's bottom line.

A year or 2 of bad contracts - at least one before you even get a great draft pick - aren't going to stop you from surrounding your new franchise (assuming they find one so quickly - it probably won't happen that way) with good players. Rebuilding doesn't happen very quickly unless you are lucky as shit and draft Robinson and Duncan in the manner the Spurs did.

But hey, I guess other than the fact that your entire premise was bullshit I guess it was a stupid question.

OH NOES an extra 5 million over 2 seasons means the Spurs can't rebuild! Oh noes!

[DPG21920]

How is it we know Tiagos contract, along w bosh, Wade, lebron and everyone else except bonners?

[MannyIsGod]

No one really cares about Bonner.

[Gooshie]

Not sure this was posted anywhere, but on the ESPN Spurs' Team Roster page, it has Bonner's 2010-2011 salary at $3,256,500. Not sure if I believe that or not. It does have Splitter's salary at $3,400,000, so it could be correct.

[DPG21920]

So? No one cares about Petro or Ian either.

[MannyIsGod]

So? No one cares about Petro or Ian either.

It was a joke, Brotato.

There have been figures somewhat released, but I have a feeling - as someone in this thread pointed out earlier - that his contract is incentivized (think I just made up a word) like a mother.

[DPG21920]

Lol

[Bruno]

Not sure this was posted anywhere, but on the ESPN Spurs' Team Roster page, it has Bonner's 2010-2011 salary at $3,256,500.

I saw it but it is also exactly his 2009-2010 salary. I doubt it's legit.

[coyotes_geek]

According to this (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGk5cXZIS2c0cHowVlhoY29mVkR3S Xc&hl=en&gid=29), Bonner's contract is 4yrs, $12.7325 mil, starting at $2.75 mil for next season.

I know it's not one of the traditional sources, but everything looks to be in order, and a $12.7 number for Bonner sounds much more reasonable than $16. The rest of the Spur salaries are consistent with Sham's site, so I think it's safe to consider these numbers valid. At least until presented with something different.

[Bruno]

Not sure this was posted anywhere, but on the ESPN Spurs' Team Roster page, it has Bonner's 2010-2011 salary at $3,256,500.

They have now put it at $3M:
http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=sas

Both espn and realgm have now Bonner starting salary at $3M. Both have league sources so it sounds like it's Bonner salary for 10-11.

Bonner's contract is between $10.2M and $13.8M for four years.

[timvp]

According to this (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGk5cXZIS2c0cHowVlhoY29mVkR3S Xc&hl=en&gid=29), Bonner's contract is 4yrs, $12.7325 mil, starting at $2.75 mil for next season.

I know it's not one of the traditional sources, but everything looks to be in order, and a $12.7 number for Bonner sounds much more reasonable than $16. The rest of the Spur salaries are consistent with Sham's site, so I think it's safe to consider these numbers valid. At least until presented with something different.

Interesting find. I've never seen that source before ... but then again, those are some odd numbers to pull out of thin air. Four years and $12.7 million is still overpaying but better than 4/$16m.


They have now put it at $3M:
http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=sas

Both espn and realgm have now Bonner starting salary at $3M. Both have league sources so it sounds like it's Bonner salary for 10-11.

Bonner's contract is between $10.2M and $13.8M for four years.

If both of those sites have Bonner's salary at $3M, that's pretty good evidence. Not sure what to think about the above Google doc, then.

I guess we'll have to wait on ShamSports . . .

[ElNono]

I still want to know if the last year is fully guaranteed... anything over $10m is too much for a stiff like Bonner, IMO

[GhosTown]

Resigning Bonner at all is the dumbest thing the Spurs could have done. TP and TD are gone, first opportunity they get.

These guys are champions, they are not going to sit around and let this loser (Matt Bonner) pull them down. Bonner is sorry, he has always been sorry and he is going to always be sorry.

Keep him around will not get the Spurs a Championship.

Don't be surprised if TD is in Miami when his contract is up.

You heard it here first.

[ploto]

I would wager that Bonner's contract is partially guaranteed for the 4th year- just like they did with Bowen and Dice. He will play 3 years and they will pay half the fourth year salary to buy him out. What looks like 4 years and almost $14M will be 3 years and $12M in actuality.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Resigning Bonner at all is the dumbest thing the Spurs could have done. TP and TD are gone, first opportunity they get.

These guys are champions, they are not going to sit around and let this loser (Matt Bonner) pull them down. Bonner is sorry, he has always been sorry and he is going to always be sorry.

Keep him around will not get the Spurs a Championship.

Don't be surprised if TD is in Miami when his contract is up.

You heard it here first.

This is just sill talk. First of all, there is only one player on the Spurs' roster who deserves to have any say whatsoever on who the team should go after or retain - Tim Duncan. The team has other GREAT players that have worked hard with the team and have given their all (namely Parker and Ginobili), but I'm sure even they realize that this is the way things should be. While Tim may be the "anti-LeBron", you can bet that he still carries a GREAT deal of weight with the organization and they confer with him before making most decisions when it comes to player acquisition. This means that, as much as many here dislike the retention of Bonner, Duncan likely signed off on the decision. I'm sure didn't approach the FO and say "We have to keep Bonner at all costs!", but you can bet that he was at least content with the decision - meaning that it's not going to chase him off or anger him to the point of early retirement.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

This is just sill talk. First of all, there is only one player on the Spurs' roster who deserves to have any say whatsoever on who the team should go after or retain - Tim Duncan. The team has other GREAT players that have worked hard with the team and have given their all (namely Parker and Ginobili), but I'm sure even they realize that this is the way things should be. While Tim may be the "anti-LeBron", you can bet that he still carries a GREAT deal of weight with the organization and they confer with him before making most decisions when it comes to player acquisition. This means that, as much as many here dislike the retention of Bonner, Duncan likely signed off on the decision. I'm sure didn't approach the FO and say "We have to keep Bonner at all costs!", but you can bet that he was at least content with the decision - meaning that it's not going to chase him off or anger him to the point of early retirement.

Way too sensible post for this thread.

[GhosTown]

This is just sill talk. First of all, there is only one player on the Spurs' roster who deserves to have any say whatsoever on who the team should go after or retain - Tim Duncan. The team has other GREAT players that have worked hard with the team and have given their all (namely Parker and Ginobili), but I'm sure even they realize that this is the way things should be. While Tim may be the "anti-LeBron", you can bet that he still carries a GREAT deal of weight with the organization and they confer with him before making most decisions when it comes to player acquisition. This means that, as much as many here dislike the retention of Bonner, Duncan likely signed off on the decision. I'm sure didn't approach the FO and say "We have to keep Bonner at all costs!", but you can bet that he was at least content with the decision - meaning that it's not going to chase him off or anger him to the point of early retirement.


If TD or TP signed off on bringing this loser back, then they are fools too. Why would TD want to kill himself trying to make up for Bonner's defensive weakness? Bringing Bonner back was just one more dumb ass move by the FO that followed a host of dumb ass moves. Cutting/trading Bowen for RJ , not signing Tyrus Thomas, letting Ian go instead of Bonner. And not trading Mason when he begged for it, but instead lets Finley go for nothing. Letting Scola get away, and then this dumbass move takes the cake.

If TD or TP were ok with this move, then they probably already made up their minds to leave SA when their contracts expire. They are not the type of people to begrudge Bonner's contract eventhough they know he didn't deserve it. I could see them leaving SA before they made an ill comment toward any teammate or coach. Even one as sorry as Bonner or dumb as Pop.

[Kindergarten Cop]

If TD or TP signed off on bringing this loser back, then they are fools too. Why would TD want to kill himself trying to make up for Bonner's defensive weakness? Bringing Bonner back was just one more dumb ass move by the FO that followed a host of dumb ass moves. Cutting/trading Bowen for RJ , not signing Tyrus Thomas, letting Ian go instead of Bonner. And not trading Mason when he begged for it, but instead lets Finley go for nothing. Letting Scola get away, and then this dumbass move takes the cake.

If TD or TP were ok with this move, then they probably already made up their minds to leave SA when their contracts expire. They are not the type of people to begrudge Bonner's contract eventhough they know he didn't deserve it. I could see them leaving SA before they made an ill comment toward any teammate or coach. Even one as sorry as Bonner or dumb as Pop.

You are absolutely right on all accounts. You obviously have a better grasp on what it takes to be a Championship-caliber team than the Spurs' brass. It's apparent that you know more about the players and their presence in the locker room than Duncan. Your statements about Bowen and Finley are what honestly convinced me that you know what you're talking about.

BTW, you're likely right about Duncan leaving when his contract expires - since he has already stated that he will likely retire.

[barbacoataco]

As much as I have hated on Bonner, their is statistical evidence that he isn't that bad.

[Xevious]

I wish Bonner would stay glued to the bench and his salary would come off the books. That said, after watching his latest interview on SDC, I'm reminded just how down-to-earth and cool he is. It's nice to see somebody like him be successful.

[GhosTown]

You are absolutely right on all accounts. You obviously have a better grasp on what it takes to be a Championship-caliber team than the Spurs' brass. It's apparent that you know more about the players and their presence in the locker room than Duncan. Your statements about Bowen and Finley are what honestly convinced me that you know what you're talking about.

BTW, you're likely right about Duncan leaving when his contract expires - since he has already stated that he will likely retire.

You know the thing about having good players is sometimes you can get away with dumb decisions and they still make you look good for a while but at some point your dumbness will even wear on them and the team. Well guess what? The Spurs are at that point. The Spurs don't have room for dumb decisions any more, TD is older and he can't make all the plays. How about a little fucking help from the FO and our Super Intelligent Coach. People like you who keep making excuses for the FO and Pop should shut up. There are some moves that even the most loyalest of loyal can defend. Resigning Bonner's SORRY ASS is one of them.

[ElNono]

I wish Bonner would stay glued to the bench and his salary would come off the books. That said, after watching his latest interview on SDC, I'm reminded just how down-to-earth and cool he is. It's nice to see somebody like him be successful.

That's true. However, he can still be cool and a good guy while playing for the Clippers. Oh well.

[Kindergarten Cop]

You know the thing about having good players is sometimes you can get away with dumb decisions and they still make you look good for a while but at some point your dumbness will even wear on them and the team. Well guess what? The Spurs are at that point. The Spurs don't have room for dumb decisions any more, TD is older and he can't make all the plays. How about a little fucking help from the FO and our Super Intelligent Coach. People like you who keep making excuses for the FO and Pop should shut up. There are some moves that even the most loyalest of loyal can defend. Resigning Bonner's SORRY ASS is one of them.

You honestly feel that resigning Matt Bonner is the ultimate decision that has broken the proverbial back of this franchise? Please don't paint me as a fan that "makes excuses" for the FO, because I haven't. I am just reasonable enough to admit that the FO knows more than I do when it comes to these kinds of decisions, which is not the case with you. Is the FO perfect? Not even close. Are they better than most in the NBA? Absolutely. Pop and RC are among the elite at their positions, which I believe is inarguable.

As for getting "help from the FO and our Super Intelligent Coach" - wouldn't you classify signing Splitter exactly what the doctor ordered? You mention letting Finley go as one of the FO's blunders? Really? And now the Bonner argument - I admit that I honestly do not think this is as bad of a decision as most are making it out to be. It's not like the money used to sign Bonner could have been used on someone else, because it didn't use up any of the money we otherwise have available. The issue, IMHO, is that Bonner has seen too many minutes as a starter and going up against other teams starting 4s and 5s - which will not be the case now with Splitter. Bonner is a bench player with a specific skill that the Spurs drastically need.

[GhosTown]

Giving Finley away for free is the problem I have with that move, but I didn't mind him leaving, he was too old anyway. We should have packaged him in a trade and got something, anything, but don't let him walk for nothing.

As for the front office, they WERE good. Over the past few years they have screwed up a lot. So I can't give them any credit as long as Matt Fucking Bonner is a Spur and that looks like another 4 years. We won't win shit in that time. No Division, no conference, and no titles if that sorry ass is playing for us.

What I am saying is plain and simple. Bonner is the reason we lose. Check the stats. In the losses, you will see Bonner played too many minutes.

[Strike]

I would wager that Bonner's contract is partially guaranteed for the 4th year- just like they did with Bowen and Dice. He will play 3 years and they will pay half the fourth year salary to buy him out. What looks like 4 years and almost $14M will be 3 years and $12M in actuality.

Still about 3 years and $12 too much.

[Death In June]

Any word on Bonners contract details yet? These rumors that have the FO overpaying (again) for RJ and Bonner are making me uncomfortable.

[benefactor]

Looking at both the RJ and Bonner thread on the front page is like taking a bite out of a shit sandwich.

[ElNono]

Looking at both the RJ and Bonner thread on the front page is like taking a bite out of a shit sandwich.

Reminds me of:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hjcrPj3OL._SL500_.jpg

[Mel_13]

With apologies to the writers of one of the great American movie scenes.

Setting: A luncheon hosted by the Spurs for Season Ticket Holders who have not yet renewed for 2010-11. Coach Pop takes questions from the fans....

Disgruntled Spurs Fan (DSF): Coach Popovich! Did you overplay the "big red?!!"

Peter Holt: You don't have to answer that question!

Coach Popovich (Pop): I'll answer the question. You want answers?

DSF: I think I'm entitled to them.

Pop: You want answers?!

DSF: I want the truth!

Pop: You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has balls, and those balls have to be hoisted by big men with red hair. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mahinmi, and you curse the Front Office. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Mahinmi's loss, while tragic, probably saved wins; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on internet message boards, you want Matt to shoot that ball -- you need Matt to shoot that ball.

We use words like "stretch four," "PER," "plus/minus." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very basketball greatness that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you buy a ticket and stand up and cheer. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

DSF: Did you overplay the "big red?"

Pop: I did the job I was –

DSF: -- Did you overplay the "big red?!"

Pop: You're god damn right I did!!!

http://files.lakerhead.com/2009/06/popbefore.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

:clap

[TJastal]

With apologies to the writers of one of the great American movie scenes.

Setting: A luncheon hosted by the Spurs for Season Ticket Holders who have not yet renewed for 2010-11. Coach Pop takes questions from the fans....

Disgruntled Spurs Fan (DSF): Coach Popovich! Did you overplay the "big red?!!"

Peter Holt: You don't have to answer that question!

Coach Popovich (Pop): I'll answer the question. You want answers?

DSF: I think I'm entitled to them.

Pop: You want answers?!

DSF: I want the truth!

Pop: You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has balls, and those balls have to be hoisted by big men with red hair. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mahinmi, and you curse the Front Office. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Mahinmi's loss, while tragic, probably saved wins; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on internet message boards, you want Matt to shoot that ball -- you need Matt to shoot that ball.

We use words like "stretch four," "PER," "plus/minus." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very basketball greatness that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you buy a ticket and stand up and cheer. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

DSF: Did you overplay the "big red?"

Pop: I did the job I was –

DSF: -- Did you overplay the "big red?!"

Pop: You're god damn right I did!!!

http://files.lakerhead.com/2009/06/popbefore.jpg

:lol

[LongtimeSpursFan]

That shits hilarious. Now if you can only post that same scene on Youtube with a voice over.

[analyzed]

One thing the Spurs would want to avoid, is to spend half the season figuring out their rotation. If you remember last year the Spurs played a lot better when Finley left and guys like Bogans and Hill knew they were going to get minutes and when. Players play a lot better when they know their going to play and with who. If Blair knows he is coming of the bench late in the 1st with Manu on the court, he probably will know how to play as compared to second guessing if he or Bonner is coming in to play. Pls no, by now Pop must have figured out who can do what. no more experimenting please

[Obstructed_View]

One thing the Spurs would want to avoid, is to spend half the season figuring out their rotation. If you remember last year the Spurs played a lot better when Finley left and guys like Bogans and Hill knew they were going to get minutes and when. Players play a lot better when they know their going to play and with who. If Blair knows he is coming of the bench late in the 1st with Manu on the court, he probably will know how to play as compared to second guessing if he or Bonner is coming in to play. Pls no, by now Pop must have figured out who can do what. no more experimenting please

The way I remember it, the Spurs played a lot better when Manu showed up and was one of the top players in the league.

[Bruno]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

[Chieflion]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

This looks a hell lot better now because of the last year.

[baseline bum]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

Damn, did they give Jack Haley a 4 year deal back in the day too?

[Muser]

If only I was a foot taller i'd be rich.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

Yeah, that's really a 3yr-10.9mil contract. Not the 4/16 we originally feared, and certainly nothing like the RJ blasphemy. I will confine my ire at the FO to the RJ contract. :lol

[Spurs Brazil]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

Now we know Bonner will be traded on 2013 draft night

[elemento]

It's not so bad guys c'mon.

It's a 10.9/3y contract. Nice trade asset in the last year. I know most of you guys hate Bonner, but he is not bad in the regular season.

The only bad contract we have is Jefferson's contract.

[mountainballer]

I also think it's way to much. however, the 4th year only 25% guaranteed is a powerful trade weapon in 2013 years and makes the extension in fact for 3 years.

[sammy]

Sham has Bonner's contract details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

4 years, $13.89M:
10-11: $3,000,000
11-12: $3,315,000
12-13: $3,630,000
13-14: $3,945,000

The last year is $1M guaranteed and becomes fully guaranteed on June 29th 2013.

:hang

No way is that worthless bitch worth 13.89M! We are screwed! Worse FA signing ever!:bang

[elemento]

No way is that worthless bitch worth 13.89M! We are screwed! Worse FA signing ever!:bang

RJ says hi

[TD 21]

Yeah, that's really a 3yr-10.9mil contract. Not the 4/16 we originally feared, and certainly nothing like the RJ blasphemy. I will confine my ire at the FO to the RJ contract. :lol

Exactly. I don't see how anyone could say this is "way too much". The guy just came off a contract paying him roughly $3.2 million per season and has become a more established, slightly better player since he signed that deal. Also, he provides a skill that is greatly coveted in the league and ridiculous money was being thrown around this summer.

What did you expect (not hope for)? You shouldn't base your opinion of a contract based on whether you like the player or not or what you'd like to see him make; you should base it on what his market value is. I have a hard time believing this isn't market value for Bonner. He basically got a slight raise over his previous contract, with a $1 million guarantee in his final season.

[vander]

oh he'll be getting that 4th year, and even with it he's underpaid :hat

[SequSpur]

why?

[ducks]

because he is taller then youhttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://assets.gearlive.com/endscore/blogimages/bonner2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://droppingdimes.gearlive.com/dimes/category/Waiver%2520Pick%2520Ups/&usg=__Tada9UcOzP5HAWkKvW01ZeVDdmw=&h=326&w=400&sz=47&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=UmF7v1jxZDYUGM:&tbnh=132&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspurs%2Bmatt%2Bbonner%2Bmaking%2Ba%2B three%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26gbv%3D2%26biw%3D1173%26 bih%3D803%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=774&vpy=311&dur=270&hovh=203&hovw=249&tx=71&ty=220&ei=RkZWTNz1A4P2tgOGi-nZAg&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0

[ducks]

http://assets.gearlive.com/endscore/blogimages/bonner2.jpg

[ducks]

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2010/04/22/Dirk-Nowitzki-Matt-Bonner-_20100422022339_0_0.JPG

[ducks]

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Dallas+Mavericks+v+San+Antonio+Spurs+aVLagj0B3e1m. jpg

[ducks]

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201007/65129856fa50e9966ccc19e1909135e5.jpg

[ducks]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/mbonner.jpg

[ducks]

http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/NBA/SA/971.jpg

[ducks]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/293/101/99051905_display_image.jpg?1278781493

[Jason R]

http://assets.gearlive.com/endscore/blogimages/bonner2.jpg

Two seasons ago this sign was at the top of my favorite Yahoo Sports article ever. Nothing but a nonstop "Matt Bonner" facts posting in the comments section.

[ElNono]

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2010/04/22/Dirk-Nowitzki-Matt-Bonner-_20100422022339_0_0.JPG

Ahhhh... Nothing like the vaunted two arms up 'and1' defense...

Can't wait to see 4 more years of that :wakeup

[Bito Corleone]

http://assets.gearlive.com/endscore/blogimages/bonner2.jpg

Matt Bonner doesn't sleep...he waits

[Nathan89]

Go downstairs. They will love you. You can start a group if you want. I post this not to be mean but to let you know how I feel about the content of your post.

"Equality on Spurstalk"

[SPURSGOAT]

Bonner's great D... http://diggsplace.com/spurs/86190097.jpg:sleep

[gospursgojas]

Go downstairs. They will love you. You can start a group if you want. I post this not to be mean but to let you know how I feel about the content of your post.

"Equality on Spurstalk"

Dude dont you get it??

[rmt]

Exactly. I don't see how anyone could say this is "way too much". The guy just came off a contract paying him roughly $3.2 million per season and has become a more established, slightly better player since he signed that deal. Also, he provides a skill that is greatly coveted in the league and ridiculous money was being thrown around this summer.

What did you expect (not hope for)? You shouldn't base your opinion of a contract based on whether you like the player or not or what you'd like to see him make; you should base it on what his market value is. I have a hard time believing this isn't market value for Bonner. He basically got a slight raise over his previous contract, with a $1 million guarantee in his final season.

I really don't care what his market value is. He's going to take playing time away from Splitter and Blair, who need all the PT they can get to be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I'd rather see Splitter and Blair fumble their way through the playoffs and get valuable playoff experience than see Bonner choke yet again.

And if Bonner's contract is what prevents the FO from signing Shaq (if he wants to come), it'll be even worse. LAL are the team to beat and Bonner can't help against them.

[ElNono]

Cue the Suns overpaying for Channing Frye as a ways to justify this contract, which went from absolutely terrible to horrible now that the numbers are published (thanks Bruno).

[benefactor]

Cue the Suns overpaying for Channing Frye as a ways to justify this contract, which went from absolutely terrible to horrible now that the numbers are published (thanks Bruno).
It's already been done multiple times to justify the RJ contract, so why not? :downspin:

[benefactor]

Stretching the floor is necessary at all costs.

[E-RockWill]

Go downstairs. They will love you. You can start a group if you want. I post this not to be mean but to let you know how I feel about the content of your post.

"Equality on Spurstalk"
:lol


A prime example of "butthurt"

[elbamba]

I really don't care what his market value is. He's going to take playing time away from Splitter and Blair, who need all the PT they can get to be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I'd rather see Splitter and Blair fumble their way through the playoffs and get valuable playoff experience than see Bonner choke yet again.

And if Bonner's contract is what prevents the FO from signing Shaq (if he wants to come), it'll be even worse. LAL are the team to beat and Bonner can't help against them.

I see him taking away more time from Tim. Duncan's time will be even more limited this year than in years past.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'd rather pay 3.6/yr for 3yrs for Bonner (a very movable contract) than about 10m/yr for 4 years to RJ (which we'll never be able to move).

Sure, Bonner is being overpaid by about 1m a year. Who cares? RJ is bing overpaid by 4-5mil.

[Seventyniner]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/293/101/99051905_display_image.jpg?1278781493

Wait...Matt Bonner jumps when he shoots?!

[Seventyniner]

Let's use the Hollinger argument: RJ, Bonner, and Splitter for a combined $14.8M isn't a bad deal, it's just the allocation of the money that people hate. If Splitter got $5.8 (full MLE), RJ got $6.8, and Bonner got $2.2, would people be complaining nearly as much?

And to the "RJ is overpaid" crowd: the Spurs must have had this deal in place before free agency started, so the Spurs are just honoring their word; nothing wrong with that.

[ElNono]

Having Bonner is like buying a 55" flat screen TV for $600 that only works from October to March. Only in SpursTalk you'll be asked: 'Well, what other 55" flat screen TV could you buy for $600?'.

It's the wrong question, dammit.

[Capt Bringdown]

Having Bonner is like buying a 55" flat screen TV for $600 that only works from October to March. Only in SpursTalk you'll be asked: 'Well, what other 55" flat screen TV could you buy for $600?'.

It's the wrong question, dammit.

:tu

Don't throw good money after bad, don't make the same mistake twice, you cain't grow nuthin' on poor soil.

[kaji157]

Becuse the fans will now blame him for our failure for 4 more years instead of focusing on Pop.

[ohmwrecker]

http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2007/12-14/lakers14csf_400.jpg

[Bruno]

When you see all the crazy money throw by NBA teams this summer, $10.9M/3 years for Bonner is a fair contract.

But Spurs should never have re-signed Bonner even if it was at his market value. When your goal is to win a NBA championship like Spurs, you don't spend money on players that disappear during the playoffs. The only case where re-signing Bonner to that contract makes sense is if Spurs have given up on being a contender. For a team, whose goal is to reach the playoffs, Bonner with that contract is a good signing. He can help his team to win some regular season games.

[benefactor]

And to the "RJ is overpaid" crowd: the Spurs must have had this deal in place before free agency started, so the Spurs are just honoring their word; nothing wrong with that.
It was stupid to give their word on that type of deal in the first place. But hey, he is getting "market value".

[ElNono]

http://thescore.vo.llnwd.net/o25/fromGVG/BonnerThumb.jpg

Yes! Four-year sandwich ecstasy!

[lefty]

Because we badly need a Scalabrini stopper

[lefty]

When you see all the crazy money throw by NBA teams this summer, $10.9M/3 years for Bonner is a fair contract.

But Spurs should never have re-signed Bonner even if it was at his market value. When your goal is to win a NBA championship like Spurs, you don't spend money on players that disappear during the playoffs. The only case where re-signing Bonner to that contract makes sense is if Spurs have given up on being a contender. For a team, whose goal is to reach the playoffs, Bonner with that contract is a good signing. He can help his team to win some regular season games.
Because we badly need a Scalabrini stopper

[Spursfanfromafar]

When you see all the crazy money throw by NBA teams this summer, $10.9M/3 years for Bonner is a fair contract.

But Spurs should never have re-signed Bonner even if it was at his market value. When your goal is to win a NBA championship like Spurs, you don't spend money on players that disappear during the playoffs. The only case where re-signing Bonner to that contract makes sense is if Spurs have given up on being a contender. For a team, whose goal is to reach the playoffs, Bonner with that contract is a good signing. He can help his team to win some regular season games.

Question is, who do you replace Bonner with - with the same money that you could throw at Bonner and hoping to have him reprise his regular season form in the playoffs? Of course, to help win a championship?

I suppose RCB/Pop tried answering it and finally dialed Bonner's number. I think they figured that his patchy work in the playoffs had to do with his recovering from that finger injury late in the season and he could be relied upon if given another chance - a decentish contract at market value.

[ElNono]

Signings like this one remind me of the Spurs winning it all in 2005, and the Lakers acquiring Kwame Brown a month later. For Spurs fans at the time, it was 'lol Kwame'.

Fast forward to today, tables turned, and Lakerfan are the one saying 'lol Bonner' :depressed

(And sure, Stern turned Kwame into Gasol 3 years later, but if you think he'll be doing San Antonio that kind of favor, you need to pass me what you're smoking)

[ElNono]

Question is, who do you replace Bonner with - with the same money that you could throw at Bonner and hoping to have him reprise his regular season form in the playoffs? Of course, to help win a championship?

Maybe we don't need to replace Bonner's role? Maybe you let Manu, Hill, (insert 3 point shooter here) take the 3 pointers Bonner takes and Dice taking the long 2 jumpers and spreading the floor all the same? I don't recall the team having spacing problems when we were winning with Oberto/Rasho/Nazr or when he was injured last season...


I suppose RCB/Pop tried answering it and finally dialed Bonner's number. I think they figured that his patchy work in the playoffs had to do with his recovering from that finger injury late in the season and he could be relied upon if given another chance - a decentish contract at market value.

I guess that would work if you think shooting is his only problem. But what was the excuse the playoffs before last one? Oh, that's right, he had the wrong role. :rolleyes

[kaji157]

Why couldn´t we offer 4 years and 9 millions? who was bidding against us!!?

[Bruno]

Question is, who do you replace Bonner with - with the same money that you could throw at Bonner and hoping to have him reprise his regular season form in the playoffs? Of course, to help win a championship?


I would have trust Blair, Duncan, Dice and Splitter to be my main PF/C rotation and for the 5th bigman spot, I would have signed a random player for the min.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Maybe we don't need to replace Bonner's role? Maybe you let Manu, Hill, (insert 3 point shooter here) take the 3 pointers Bonner takes and Dice taking the long 2 jumpers and spreading the floor all the same? I don't recall the team having spacing problems when we were winning with Oberto/Rasho/Nazr or when he was injured last season...

But spreading the floor through Bonner has worked really well in the regular season and there is no reason why it shouldn't in the post-season with spot minutes for Bonner. The thing is ..if he made some of his threes and did better than Frye for the Suns, the Spurs had a chance to avert that 0-4, which didn't happen. I suppose RCB/Pop thought it was better to trust Bonner to "get it" rather than try getting someone without "corporate knowledge".

I also suppose that the seasons with Oberto/Rasho in the mix were those where Timmy was at his dominant peak and there were a lot more competent 3 specialists around him. I guess Bonner with his relatively better rebounding, a la Robert Horry as a sweet shooting PF made sense in the later seasons.


I guess that would work if you think shooting is his only problem. But what was the excuse the playoffs before last one? Oh, that's right, he had the wrong role. :rolleyes

But there was definitely improvement from one season to another for Bonner since his arrival. What is not to say that ..if injury free.. he could deliver? There is a risk to take, but weighed against the fact that the alternatives include Steve Novak/ 3 shooting 3s, I guess, it was worth taking that risk. We have to wait till the '10-'11 playoffs to know for sure.

[benefactor]

Why couldn´t we offer 4 years and 9 millions? who was bidding against us!!?
Or 0 years and 0 millions?

[Spursfanfromafar]

I would have trust Blair, Duncan, Dice and Splitter to be my main PF/C rotation and for the 5th bigman spot, I would have signed a random player for the min.

I agree with FO on this one. More so, because $10.9million is far more palatable, enough to roll the dice once more on Bonner reprising atleast half a Horry.

[TD 21]

I really don't care what his market value is. He's going to take playing time away from Splitter and Blair, who need all the PT they can get to be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I'd rather see Splitter and Blair fumble their way through the playoffs and get valuable playoff experience than see Bonner choke yet again.

And if Bonner's contract is what prevents the FO from signing Shaq (if he wants to come), it'll be even worse. LAL are the team to beat and Bonner can't help against them.

With the exception of the part about O'Neal, I agree. I'm just saying, if you're going to judge a contract, you should judge it based off of market value and not let your personal opinion of the player cloud your judgment as to whether it was a fair contract or not.

[ElNono]

But spreading the floor through Bonner has worked really well in the regular season and there is no reason why it shouldn't in the post-season with spot minutes for Bonner. The thing is ..if he made some of his threes and did better than Frye for the Suns, the Spurs had a chance to avert that 0-4, which didn't happen. I suppose RCB/Pop thought it was better to trust Bonner to "get it" rather than try getting someone without "corporate knowledge".

Sure there's a reason. In the playoffs you have the very best teams and the pressure mounts tenfold. Some guys thrive in that atmosphere (guys like Horry, Kerr, SJax) and other guys curl into a fetal position like Matt.

As far as 'corporate knowledge', we had 3 seasons of Matt Bonner in the system to see if he could "get it". Yet he still periodically misses rotations, he's an awful team defender (because he's an awful defender period). We're running out of Duncan seasons waiting for this guy to "get it". I think it's Splitter or Blair turn to see if they "get it", but the only way Bonner is not getting minutes is if he's not in the bench. So this was a wasted opportunity to get rid of the guy.


I also suppose that the seasons with Oberto/Rasho in the mix were those where Timmy was at his dominant peak and there were a lot more competent 3 specialists around him. I guess Bonner with his relatively better rebounding, a la Robert Horry as a sweet shooting PF made sense in the later seasons.

Bonner is an awful rebounder. And Bonner is not Horry.
Let me say that one more time: Bonner is not Horry.

As far as Duncan, now that he's definitely on the decline, wouldn't you want more help for him? Wouldn't you want somebody to help him defending the paint and help out with rebounding? Somebody to help banging with the top guys in the league? Why would you want somebody parking his ass on the perimeter, who is also a terrible defender and rebounder?


But there was definitely improvement from one season to another for Bonner since his arrival. What is not to say that ..if injury free.. he could deliver? There is a risk to take, but weighed against the fact that the alternatives include Steve Novak/ 3 shooting 3s, I guess, it was worth taking that risk. We have to wait till the '10-'11 playoffs to know for sure.

You didn't answer my previous question. He was injury free in 2008-2009. He got the looks, why couldn't he deliver then? How many more seasons are we going to wait for this guy to show up and deliver?

[ElNono]

I guess we should have re-signed Mason and Bogans for 4 more seasons too. Maybe they'll show up and deliver this time around. You know, Mason was injured!!!

[Dr. Gonzo]

Becuse the fans will now blame him for our failure for 4 more years instead of focusing on Pop.

:pctoss

Why couldn't they have fired Pop and hired Mike Brown. Popastink is a terrible coach.

[ElNono]

:pctoss

Why couldn't they have fired Pop and hired Mike Brown. Popastink is a terrible coach.

What happened to your 'hotdog-getting-a-mustard-facial' avatar?

[ohmwrecker]

Mike Brown is a terrible coach.

[rmt]

With the exception of the part about O'Neal, I agree. I'm just saying, if you're going to judge a contract, you should judge it based off of market value and not let your personal opinion of the player cloud your judgment as to whether it was a fair contract or not.

So just because you can get him for market value, you should get him even though he has choked over and over in the playoffs. If you're going for market value, maybe we should re-sign Bogans and Mason for vet. min. If it's 3 point shooting we want, I'd prefer to roll the dice and hope that Anderson or Neal work out. I already know that Bonner doesn't. How about some toughness, grit and rebounding - you know, things that win championships?

I don't see the comparison between Bonner and Frye. Frye toasted us in the playoffs with clutch 3's. When has Bonner ever done that?

[TD 21]

So just because you can get him for market value, you should get him even though he has choked over and over in the playoffs. If you're going for market value, maybe we should re-sign Bogans and Mason for vet. min. If it's 3 point shooting we want, I'd prefer to roll the dice and hope that Anderson or Neal work out. I already know that Bonner doesn't. How about some toughness, grit and rebounding - you know, things that win championships?

I don't see the comparison between Bonner and Frye. Frye toasted us in the playoffs with clutch 3's. When has Bonner ever done that?

That's not at all what I said. You lack reading comprehension.

[boo_radley]

Terms of Bonner's deal (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4556100&postcount=67)

[rmt]

But Spurs should never have re-signed Bonner even if it was at his market value. When your goal is to win a NBA championship like Spurs, you don't spend money on players that disappear during the playoffs.

TD21, I apologize for not getting your point. This is my point above.

[TD 21]

TD21, I apologize for not getting your point. This is my point above.

No problem. I know that's your point and I agree with it.

[Mel_13]

Having Bonner is like buying a 55" flat screen TV for $600 that only works from October to March. Only in SpursTalk you'll be asked: 'Well, what other 55" flat screen TV could you buy for $600?'.

It's the wrong question, dammit.

:tu


I would have trust Blair, Duncan, Dice and Splitter to be my main PF/C rotation and for the 5th bigman spot, I would have signed a random player for the min.

:tu:tu

[Nathan89]

:lol


A prime example of "butthurt"

I am not butthurt, my message was this should not be a thread. Look what happened it got merged. If you thought I was butthurt because my thread was vanished you are wrong. According to Kori Ellis my thread "Equality on Spurstalk" will comeback.

[Borosai]

Bonner's gonna crack some heads this year.

[benefactor]

Bonner's gonna crack some heads this year.
Damn straight. No lettuce head is safe around the Sandwich Guru.

[DesignatedT]

Damn straight. No lettuce head is safe around the Sandwich Guru.

lmao

[Spursfanfromafar]

Bonner is an awful rebounder. And Bonner is not Horry.
Let me say that one more time: Bonner is not Horry.

He is not. But he has done the best approximation in the regular season and that is revealed in all those advanced stats, the +/-s etc. Except that he hasn't replicated it in the playoffs, which was where Horry ruled. So the ability is there, the improvement is also there. His performance from last years's playoffs over the previous ones, despite winding recovery from a finger injury was an improvement, even if not enough. FOs and coaches want to see if the player has the ability and has the cojones to improve on their watch. They then judge whether failures can be lived up with, in light of evidence of possibility of improvement. Evidence is 50-50 and a palatable contract based on that is not too bad.

And I don't agree that he is a terrible or an awful player or all that. He is at best an inconsistent rebounder. But a very good three point shooter and a trier at defense. Check out all of timvp's game recaps last season and you will understand.



You didn't answer my previous question. He was injury free in 2008-2009. He got the looks, why couldn't he deliver then? How many more seasons are we going to wait for this guy to show up and deliver?

5 games in a series where the Spurs under-performed throughout. Too small a sample size.

[benefactor]

Look out...he pulled the +/- card.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Look out...he pulled the +/- card.

so? Its better than no card.

[The Truth #6]

I hear some players need six years to master the system. Trust the system!

But more seriously, Bonner has low BBIQ and shouldn't be seen as more than a one trick pony. He's never made a great pass or any other skilled basketball play other than shooting. Horry on average wasn't a great shooter for us but hit big shots and made big players. Bonner is the opposite of that.

[benefactor]

so? Its better than no card.
If anything Bonner is a prime example of why that stat is pure garbage.

[thOOdee]

sometimes stats don't paint the full picture....making threes one after another when the spurs are already up by 20 helps your stats and looks good, but if you watch the spurs games, even a child can tell he doesn't belong out there....
and on those occasions of bonner knocking down 3's...when the player your guarding comes back and negates your points, there is no point of even having him out there.

there should be a stat of how many points get scored on you...kinda hard to track, but i bet it will help a team realize what they have in players of bonners CALIBER.

[angelbelow]

He is not. But he has done the best approximation in the regular season and that is revealed in all those advanced stats, the +/-s etc. Except that he hasn't replicated it in the playoffs, which was where Horry ruled. So the ability is there, the improvement is also there. His performance from last years's playoffs over the previous ones, despite winding recovery from a finger injury was an improvement, even if not enough. FOs and coaches want to see if the player has the ability and has the cojones to improve on their watch. They then judge whether failures can be lived up with, in light of evidence of possibility of improvement. Evidence is 50-50 and a palatable contract based on that is not too bad.

And I don't agree that he is a terrible or an awful player or all that. He is at best an inconsistent rebounder. But a very good three point shooter and a trier at defense. Check out all of timvp's game recaps last season and you will understand.



5 games in a series where the Spurs under-performed throughout. Too small a sample size.

seriously bro? or are you a girl?

[ElNono]

He is not. But he has done the best approximation in the regular season and that is revealed in all those advanced stats, the +/-s etc. Except that he hasn't replicated it in the playoffs, which was where Horry ruled. So the ability is there, the improvement is also there. His performance from last years's playoffs over the previous ones, despite winding recovery from a finger injury was an improvement, even if not enough. FOs and coaches want to see if the player has the ability and has the cojones to improve on their watch. They then judge whether failures can be lived up with, in light of evidence of possibility of improvement. Evidence is 50-50 and a palatable contract based on that is not too bad.

We ain't getting the Larry O'Brien by winning the regular season +/- championship. This isn't the Dallas Mavericks.

And Horry freaking mailed it in the regular season, but showed up in the playoffs, when the games matter. This is where Matt is full of fail.


And I don't agree that he is a terrible or an awful player or all that. He is at best an inconsistent rebounder. But a very good three point shooter and a trier at defense. Check out all of timvp's game recaps last season and you will understand.

A career 3.5 rebound per game (2.0 in the playoffs) for a 6'10 PF is not awful? I mean, you have to almost purposely not want to grab boards.

Maybe you should revisit timvp's game recaps from the past two playoffs. I actually watch the games, all of them. That guy is a waste of a roster spot.


5 games in a series where the Spurs under-performed throughout. Too small a sample size.

He got the looks, he shriveled into fetal position. Two seasons in a row. Passing shots, throwing bricks, and letting scrubs like Dudley and ponytail douche toy around with him. What else you need to see? When he 3 threes in a row when we're up 20+? There's no more excuses for this guy.

[ElNono]

I hear some players need six years to master the system. Trust the system!

But more seriously, Bonner has low BBIQ and shouldn't be seen as more than a one trick pony. He's never made a great pass or any other skilled basketball play other than shooting. Horry on average wasn't a great shooter for us but hit big shots and made big players. Bonner is the opposite of that.

This is exactly why you can't pull the Horry card with Matt. He's a great guy, sandwich lover, and he hustles and tries hard. Nobody is taking that away from him. But he's just not a smart player like Horry was. You can't teach that. You either have it or you don't.

[ElNono]

-Matt Bonner was most responsible for losing the game for the Spurs. Point blank. With Frye going 5-for-6 from three-point range, San Antonio's bench bigman shooter responded by missing all four of his shots. That's a 15-point swing the Spurs simply can't overcome. You can now etch it in stone that Bonner is a playoff choker. He doesn't want to shoot open shots and he misses the ones he does take. He's now 10-for-32 from the field in the playoffs and 5-for-20 on threes. What makes it even worse is virtually all of those shots are without a soul around him. It's just a damn shame.

:lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

(1)Let's use the Hollinger argument: RJ, Bonner, and Splitter for a combined $14.8M isn't a bad deal, it's just the allocation of the money that people hate. If Splitter got $5.8 (full MLE), RJ got $6.8, and Bonner got $2.2, would people be complaining nearly as much?

(2)And to the "RJ is overpaid" crowd: the Spurs must have had this deal in place before free agency started, so the Spurs are just honoring their word; nothing wrong with that.

(1)That would work if the RJ contract was movable, but at 38.8/4yrs for a declining, decidedly average player on the wrong side of 30, it ain't.

(2)Why commit to a guy who doesn't fit your team in the first place?

[Penya]

Is he finally going to play with Canada NT on WC?

[Agloco]

If anything Bonner is a prime example of why that stat is pure garbage.

+1


We ain't getting the Larry O'Brien by winning the regular season +/- championship. This isn't the Dallas Mavericks.

And Horry freaking mailed it in the regular season, but showed up in the playoffs, when the games matter. This is where Matt is full of fail.

A career 3.5 rebound per game (2.0 in the playoffs) for a 6'10 PF is not awful? I mean, you have to almost purposely not want to grab boards.



Again +1. Matty B doesn't have a compass for the post season. It's like his season ends at the end of 82 games.


This is exactly why you can't pull the Horry card with Matt. He's a great guy, sandwich lover, and he hustles and tries hard. Nobody is taking that away from him. But he's just not a smart player like Horry was. You can't teach that. You either have it or you don't.

Amen brother.

NO comparison between the two. Apples and Oranges have more in common.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Just one game. But what you see is what you get. Anyone who says that Bonner's spreading floor is not helping the Spurs is well....

Hopefully this translates into improvement in the regular season and the post season.

[100%duncan]

Owned

[Dex]

Hats off to Matt Bonner for a great, great game, but nobody ever said he can't shoot the three.

[Sigz]

Bonner sucks.

He'll go 7 for 7 one night, and 1 for 6 another; and that's only during the regular season.

Come playoffs, the white boy ain't anywhere to be found.

[The_Worlds_finest]

You guys. If Matt bonner was what you expect him to be (mad threes, d and rebounding starter) he would not be with the spurs he would be making twice as much on a different team.

[thispego]

Bonner sucks.

He'll go 7 for 7 one night, and 1 for 6 another; and that's only during the regular season.

8 for 13 in two games? I'll tAke it :lol

[Blackjack]

With apologies to the writers of one of the great American movie scenes.

Setting: A luncheon hosted by the Spurs for Season Ticket Holders who have not yet renewed for 2010-11. Coach Pop takes questions from the fans....

Disgruntled Spurs Fan (DSF): Coach Popovich! Did you overplay the "big red?!!"

Peter Holt: You don't have to answer that question!

Coach Popovich (Pop): I'll answer the question. You want answers?

DSF: I think I'm entitled to them.

Pop: You want answers?!

DSF: I want the truth!

Pop: You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has balls, and those balls have to be hoisted by big men with red hair. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mahinmi, and you curse the Front Office. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Mahinmi's loss, while tragic, probably saved wins; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on internet message boards, you want Matt to shoot that ball -- you need Matt to shoot that ball.

We use words like "stretch four," "PER," "plus/minus." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very basketball greatness that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you buy a ticket and stand up and cheer. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

DSF: Did you overplay the "big red?"

Pop: I did the job I was –

DSF: -- Did you overplay the "big red?!"

Pop: You're god damn right I did!!!

http://files.lakerhead.com/2009/06/popbefore.jpg

Obi, that really was a great damn post. Glad I took the time to go back and read it again. :rollin

[Fpoonsie]

Wow, Mel.

Brilliant.

[nbaman99]

Bonner sucks.

He'll go 7 for 7 one night, and 1 for 6 another; and that's only during the regular season.

Come playoffs, the white boy ain't anywhere to be found.

There are few ungrateful and unappreciate so called fans here.

[rayray2k8]

There are few ungrateful and unappreciate so called fans here.

.. I guess he was right huh?
This motherfucker is absolutely balling!

What a joke. :rolleyes

[benefactor]

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

Which means they're not going to sit him at the end of the bench...

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang


I don't disagree with the premise, I've stated as much -- the Spurs aren't likely to find a better player for that role.

But it's not that some of us begrudge him getting paid, it's what that inevitable means: significant playing time.



Because if they pay him, they're going to play him.


I'll wait until I see more official numbers before I overreact, but at first glance the deal seems fairly un-Spurs-like. I could see giving Bonner a slight raise, or I could see giving him 4 years, but not both. (That is, I could have easily seen 2 years, $7 million, or 4 years, $11 million.)

I've said before, I have no problem bringing back Bonner if he's going to be the 5th big. However, at that price, either you're going to be playing him more than 5th big minutes, or you're going to be overpaying for someone at the end of the bench. As much as I like Bonner, either situation is unacceptable for a team trying to compete for a championship while going into uncertain financial times.


By the way, you are all fools if you think they are paying this for the 'fifth' big.

This means Pop and RC are sold on the Anti-Horry being a rotation big for us (probably the first one off the bench).



Matt Bonner is at best the 5th big on a contending team. Paying him 14 million is confirmation that he will see meaningful minutes and get outplayed by every opposing big in the playoffs.

"He spreads the floor."
"He will only play 10mpg."

Wake the hell up. This signing officially etches the closing tombstone date on championship level Spurs defense.

What a bargain for the first big off the bench. Can't wait to see him defending starters in the post for another four years.

If he makes as much as reported he will play rotation minutes.

Question 1: Who else would have offered Bonner this money?

Question 2: Does it make sense to pay your 5th big 4M per year?

Question 3: How many minutes does Bonner see next year?
:wakeup

There are many, many more in the thread...but you get the picture. It looks like the days of Pop doghousing Bonner are gone and the days of Bonner getting the blind Finley minutes are here. Bonner getting injured is the only way he is not getting rotation minutes in the playoffs.

[TJastal]

I'm sure the Bonner krew will be all licking & slurping on his purple nutsack on the next game he goes 4-4 from the arc and helps the spurs blowout some eastern conference bottom dweller.

[benefactor]

"He spreads the floor."
"He will only play 10mpg."

Wake the hell up. This signing officially etches the closing tombstone date on championship level Spurs defense.
Someone just fucking kill me.

[benefactor]

In 2008-09, Bonner led his team in that category, with the Spurs outscoring their opponents by an average of .175 points per minute with Bonner in action. Last season, Bonner's plus/minus average improved to .180. Among the Spurs, only Manu Ginobili (.181) had a higher figure.
“That shows a strong indication of not only how our team plays with him,” Buford said, “but also how our coaches value him.”
Buford said that impact — coupled with the fact that perimeter shooting big men form a “very limited talent pool” in the NBA — made re-signing Bonner a no-brainer.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-splurge-on-Bonner-785815.php

:lmao

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Too bad Bonner can never do shit in the playoffs.

[SenorSpur]

Bonner is starting to do his usual springtime swoon. By March 21, he'll be in full suck mode both at home and on the road.

No good defensive team is going to give this guy open looks along the arc - especially in the playoffs. In effect, he will be invisible in the playoffs - again.

[4>0rings]

3 more years!!! 3 more years!!! 3 more years!!!

[underdawg]

Bonner only played 7 minutes tonight - this game was not his fault

The Spurs had an off night shooting the ball

The Heat are playing really well right now, so this was expected

The Spurs are 54-13 and still have a 6.5 game lead for the 1st seed

[Borosai]

Role player.

[ElNono]

Bonner only played 7 minutes tonight

Really.... you don't wonder why?

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner only played 7 minutes tonight - this game was not his fault

The Spurs had an off night shooting the ball

The Heat are playing really well right now, so this was expected

The Spurs are 54-13 and still have a 6.5 game lead for the 1st seed

LOL heads like this make me sick, he was a blackhole thats why! Some got layups at will on him thats why he only played 7 mins, he is pure shyt if he is not hitting threes! That is always what he will be! He is trash! He does this yearly late, he does it again it seems, yet he still gets a pass from some?

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner is starting to do his usual springtime swoon. By March 21, he'll be in full suck mode both at home and on the road.

No good defensive team is going to give this guy open looks along the arc - especially in the playoffs. In effect, he will be invisible in the playoffs - again.

YET IDIOTS DENY THIS and don't see this yearly! They think every year he is shooting high PCT so it will not happen, but it happens every year and some still back this piece of fukkin shit.
I'm sure the Bonner krew will be all licking & slurping on his purple nutsack on the next game he goes 4-4 from the arc and helps the spurs blowout some eastern conference bottom dweller.

Yep, and idiots will say I told you so and post some stupid thread on it and say he hustles hard and hits at a high rate on threes! They will be in denial again of this first half of the year bozo and give them hope he will show it later on in the playoffs etc.! He is what he is, a fucking role playing bum, Pop will not see that though.

[Sean Cagney]

Fuck you Matt Bonner! Why can't you just go away!!!!!!!

I wish this all the time, but he is still there and POOP can't help but overplay him, he must have a devils curse on POP, thats all I can think of.

[rmt]

I wish this all the time, but he is still there and POOP can't help but overplay him, he must have a devils curse on POP, thats all I can think of.

Pop's fascination with Bonner is worse than Finley. At least Finley can hit a 3 under pressure and if an opponent got by him on defense, we could hope that a big (Horry, Oberto, Thomas) would be waiting for him. Now, horror of horrors, that big man is Bonner (or Blair).

[Chomag]

another 3 more years to look forward of this? gah!

[baseline bum]

Dorrell Wright earned 2 million last year, Spurs could have signed him for what they paying Bonner, this dude is 24 years old, 6'9 and a small forward that can shoot the 3. What are we thinking

:pctoss

[Dex]

Pop apparently just wanted to see more Bonku's.

[lefty]

Piece of shit

Hit open 3's on a good night

Doesnt bring anything else

[Dex]

What did you expect?
Bonner is as Bonner does.
Que sera sera...

[benefactor]

:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:

[timtonymanu]

LMAO 5th big

[Spurs Brazil]

:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:
:smchode::smchode::smchode::smchode:

[Marco]

Blame on Duncan also for not questioning this FO decision.

[silverblk mystix]

Blame on Duncan also for not questioning this FO decision.

This.

Timmy is too classy to question the FO...sometimes I wish he would just forget his manners and put some pressure on Pop.

[Ice009]

This.

Timmy is too classy to question the FO...sometimes I wish he would just forget his manners and put some pressure on Pop.

Simple. Tim can do it now by telling Pop he won't play again until they win a game. Force Pop to play Splitter in the 4th.

[ElNono]

:lmao I love it Love it when the noobs melt down


Ah the typical reactions from the typical moons :lmao


How does a signing Bonner put the Spurs farther from contention? They didn't have any other realistic options for the money they could've spent (LLE or vet min). I could understand if the opportunity cost for signing Bonner was equal or greater than his value, but I just don't see it.


Spaces the floor and converts a greater amount of the shots when he gets them than any other Spur.


Then who is hitting that important shot? Who is the replacement player?

I'm telling you, the Spurs were going to fill that role regardless and give whoever assumed that role some minutes. How many minutes is a legit question for any player in that role, including Bonner.

If Blair, Splitter and especially Dice prove to be more beneficial on the court, then Bonner's minutes are limited.

Either way, this is not the end of the world.

[Ice009]

LOL u never see EricB in these situations.

LOL when his player is failing and the coaching is failing EricB is long gone.

[Mugen]

LOL u never see EricB in these situations.

LOL when his player is failing and the coaching is failing EricB is long gone.

:lmao so fucking true.

[4>0rings]

bumpskidadel

[timvp]

I had forgotten how much we all hated his re-signing. It turned out to be just as dumb or dumber than we imagined.


The classic end to the Bonner era would be to use Splitter's rights to salary dump Bonner's contract.

:lol @ this practically being the case

[ElNono]

thanks for unlocking this thread... classic thread...

tbh, you can read the 2010/2011 posts and you would think you're reading what happened this past playoffs :lol

[timtonymanu]

:lol no surprise that T Park/EricB wasn't against the signing.

[baseline bum]

Man, I did not take this well :lol


Fuck me. Bonner just crucified and nailed the Spurs asses to the Tree of Woe.


Quick, is Finley available to sign a 3-year deal?


The Spurs don't need a soft PF who is a one-trick pony who forgets his trick when the games start to matter. They need bigs who can rebound, defend, and get high percentage looks inside. That skillset of Bonner's is hugely detrimental to the success of the Spurs. It worked with Horry because he was also a phenomenal defensive player with a basketball IQ that was off the charts.


Bonner provides no spacing because he can't hit an important shot, and the opportunity cost of having a big on the floor who can grab a board and not get torched every possession is a hell of a steep price to pay for all those missed shots. Bonner is dogshit and we all stepped in it.


Finley would have been a better choice. At least he can hit a clutch shot. Or Mason. He did it a couple of times. Hell, Steve Smith's corpse would have been better.

I hate being right. :depressed

[timtonymanu]

Unfortunately, Bonner STILL hasn't proven us wrong.

I still don't understand why the front office thought handing him this contract was a good idea.

[objective]

This is a disgrace.

I'm not spending money on the Spurs for the duration of his time with the team. Which will be four years because nobody will want to trade for a choking minutes-stealer.

and I haven't spent a dime since.

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao 4 year contract :lmao

[therealtruth]

Bonner made everybody a Nostradamus.

[benefactor]

Epic unlock.

Drz should be here soon to fall on the sword for Bonner, per his usual.

[mudyez]

just keep him and play him 30minutes a game during reg season...then sit has arse until october again.

thats pricey regarding his contract but better than him killing us year after year.

[CubanMustGo]

This year he started to fail late in the regular season. Maybe you play him through the All-Star game now.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The title is still hilarious.

[Guajalote]

I wonder if the kid with Bonner shaved into his hair has gone with the full shave yet.

[silverblk mystix]

TimVP


Spurs fans should be celebrating in the streets. I've watched Matt Bonner play a lot and this guy is damn good. He will be a fan favorite in no time. Think Malik Rose in his prime with an outside shot and like four inches taller.

I know he played in the NBA outpost north of the border, but if we were naming players that we'd want to fill what the Spurs need, Matt Bonner would be high on that list.

Another thing is this guy is tough as nails. When he was a rookie, he put a cheap shot on KG after KG was showing up the Toronto crowd. Bonner got ejected and the crowd gave him a standing ovation.

So in recap, the Spurs get an young active bigman who can shoot and his hard ass.

Got damn what a good trade.



Manny is Gay


All I know, is that Timvp doesn't hype bad players. His word is good enough for me.



:lol

[Stringer_Bell]

thanks for unlocking this thread... classic thread...

tbh, you can read the 2010/2011 posts and you would think you're reading what happened this past playoffs :lol

No shit! :wow

I didn't look at the dates and I can honestly say that this thread transcends time just like a great piece of art.

...and what was true in the past is still true today. :depressed

[Bill_Brasky]

God damn, I fucking hate Bonner :lol

[Spurtacus]

2012 3,630,000
2013 3,945,000

:depressed

[shorttotry]

The title of this thread almost had throwing my computer across the room. Scared me, lol.

[timtonymanu]

I can look at this title all day and still be in disbelief and anger.

Amnesty! Amnesty!

[TDomination]

Wow, it took me until page 2 to realize this was an old thread. I was getting pissed!

[baseline bum]

I wonder if the kid with Bonner shaved into his hair has gone with the full shave yet.

Pretty sure that's vander; just ask him.

[silverblk mystix]

TimVP


Spurs fans should be celebrating in the streets. I've watched Matt Bonner play a lot and this guy is damn good. He will be a fan favorite in no time. Think Malik Rose in his prime with an outside shot and like four inches taller.

I know he played in the NBA outpost north of the border, but if we were naming players that we'd want to fill what the Spurs need, Matt Bonner would be high on that list.

Another thing is this guy is tough as nails. When he was a rookie, he put a cheap shot on KG after KG was showing up the Toronto crowd. Bonner got ejected and the crowd gave him a standing ovation.

So in recap, the Spurs get an young active bigman who can shoot and his hard ass.

Got damn what a good trade.



Manny is Gay


All I know, is that Timvp doesn't hype bad players. His word is good enough for me.



:lol

[timvp]

Matt Bonner has actually been better than I've expected in the regular season. If he played as well in the playoffs as he plays in the regular season, he'd be a legend.

Too bad he sucks in the playoffs and lacks any semblance of intestinal fortitude. Seeing as it was impossible to judge how Bonner would react to playoff basketball while he played in Toronto, I can't really even be mad at 2006 timvp for hyping Bonner.

It was still a great trade. The Spurs never should have re-signed him after 2007. And it was beyond stupid to give him a four-year deal in 2010. But those dumb signings don't have anything to do with a trade.

[timtonymanu]

Well with Timmy signing a 3 year contract, at least Bonner won't be on the team for Timmy's final season unless Bonner gets another extension. :bang

[angelbelow]

Epic unlock.

Drz should be here soon to fall on the sword for Bonner, per his usual.

Unless he declares that the thread is full of idiots and not worth his time.

Well.. I guess that would still be per usual.

[therealtruth]

Matt Bonner has actually been better than I've expected in the regular season. If he played as well in the playoffs as he plays in the regular season, he'd be a legend.

Too bad he sucks in the playoffs and lacks any semblance of intestinal fortitude. Seeing as it was impossible to judge how Bonner would react to playoff basketball while he played in Toronto, I can't really even be mad at 2006 timvp for hyping Bonner.

It was still a great trade. The Spurs never should have re-signed him after 2007. And it was beyond stupid to give him a four-year deal in 2010. But those dumb signings don't have anything to do with a trade.

That's how the playoffs tend to be. Players either do well or do poorly. Not too many mediocre playoff performer. After the '04 collapse the Spurs should have known that better than anyone.

[SenorSpur]

That's how the playoffs tend to be. Players either do well or do poorly. Not too many mediocre playoff performer. After the '04 collapse the Spurs should have known that better than anyone.

The most confusing element to all this is how much more of Bonner's failings does R.C., Pop and the coaching staff need to see before they become convinced of what has become obvious to everyone - Bonner doesn't have the mental toughness to be a playoff contributor.

[angelbelow]

The most confusing element to all this is how much more of Bonner's failings does R.C., Pop and the coaching staff need to see before they become convinced of what has become obvious to everyone - Bonner doesn't have the mental toughness to be a playoff contributor.

Senor, I enjoyed your takes in the past and continue to do so now. However, I noticed that you didn't post much during the regular season. Around that time, Bonner was doing his thing... being red hot rocket. Most of the forum was pro-Bonner (although there were a good amount posters who were weary of Bonner's contributions come playoff time.)

Now that Bonner has reverted to his playoff choker reputation you have returned with a vengeance. Coincidence or were you just busy during the regular season? Either way, good to see you active and lets hope Bonner is gone sooner rather then later.

[Drz]

Matt Bonner has actually been better than I've expected in the regular season. If he played as well in the playoffs as he plays in the regular season, he'd be a legend.
By better than expected, I take it you're referring to the 2011-12 adjusted plus/minus (http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2011-2012&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC&team=SAS) list below?

#4: Tim Duncan
#3: Manu Ginobili
#2: Tony Parker
#1: MATT BONNER


Too bad he sucks in the playoffs
I'll set aside my usual sample size stuff. It still applies, but it's been talked to death.

Let's give him more credit for what he's done in the regular season. Home court advantage in the playoffs is enormous, and we wouldn't have had it without him. It'd be interesting to see what happens if Bonner got hurt for a long stretch, and how much more difficult it would be for the guards to penetrate.

[SenorSpur]

Senor, I enjoyed your takes in the past and continue to do so now. However, I noticed that you didn't post much during the regular season. Around that time, Bonner was doing his thing... being red hot rocket. Most of the forum was pro-Bonner (although there were a good amount posters who were weary of Bonner's contributions come playoff time.)

Now that Bonner has reverted to his playoff choker reputation you have returned with a vengeance. Coincidence or were you just busy during the regular season? Either way, good to see you active and lets hope Bonner is gone sooner rather then later.

Angelbelow, I appreciate your thoughts and comments. It's good to see you active, as well.

While I do manage to post occassionally during the regular season, you're probably correct in that probably "dialed it up" more as during the trade deadline and as the playoffs began.

As for the big red-head, I find that ragging on Bonner during the regular season is like ragging on why the leaves have not fallen from the trees in the summer. As we all know, the regular season IS Bonner's playoffs. And like the leaves that fall from the trees when the new fall season begins, so it is with Bonner's production. Except his contributions fall like leaves when the spring playoff season starts.

I'm just beyond frustrated at the long leash this guy has carried with this franchise. I can't remember a player, with such a repeated resume of failure, not only being kept around, but resigned.

People will say, if he's not playing, he's not hurting anything. Wrong. The mere fact that he's consuming a salary slot and a roster space are both inexcusable errors on the part of the Pop and R.C.

We all know how this movie ends. We've watched it for four years. Why they refuse to move on from him is a mystery I'll never understand. Besides, with RJ out of the picture, I had to direct my vengance toward someone. :lol

[Duncan2177]

It blows my mind that Pop keeps this clown around. WTF does he see in this dude?

[ElNono]

Too bad he sucks in the playoffs and lacks any semblance of intestinal fortitude. Seeing as it was impossible to judge how Bonner would react to playoff basketball while he played in Toronto, I can't really even be mad at 2006 timvp for hyping Bonner.

He actually did what I didn't think was possible: Force Pop's hand to sit him down after being too scared to play. The fact that Pop ended up giving his minutes to Splitter even *after* Hack-A-Splitter and eventually Blair is probably rock bottom.

I hope the FO doesn't have a short memory and dumps him much like they did with RJ after pulling a similar chokejob.

[Drz]

He actually did what I didn't think was possible: Force Pop's hand to sit him down after being too scared to play. The fact that Pop ended up giving his minutes to Splitter even *after* Hack-A-Splitter and eventually Blair is probably rock bottom.

I hope the FO doesn't have a short memory and dumps him much like they did with RJ after pulling a similar chokejob.
RJ was dumped because his advanced stats were poor.

Bonner will not be dumped because his advanced stats are awesome. And "awesome" is not an overstatement.

[Budkin]

Damn this thread to Hell.

[ElNono]

RJ was dumped because his advanced stats were poor.

RJ shat the bed in the playoffs and ended up watching the end of the last game against Memphis from the bench... Not surprisingly that's where Matt found himself in the last few games against OKC.


Bonner will not be dumped because his advanced stats are awesome. And "awesome" is not an overstatement.

Apparently Pop realized that Matty's advanced stats in the regular season don't translate to the playoffs. Hopefully, the realization translates in losing dead weight.

[Drz]

Another possibility is they'll realize they went 34-4 in the 38 preceding games they played Bonner, and as soon as they benched him they lost 3 straight.

[ElNono]

Another possibility is that after 4 post-seasons of fairly decent playing time and his niche stats flat-lining, they have enough sample size to make the determination he's useless in the playoffs.

[Drz]

What are niche stats?

[ElNono]

What are niche stats?

He's a 3 point specialist. It also has been argued his +/- stat is a reflection of how well he spaces the floor for everyone else. Stats that flatline once the playoffs roll around. This postseason was no exception.

[Duncan2177]

Bonner has been given one to many chances . It's time

[ElNono]

BTW, as advanced stats go, this was Matt's worst offseason by far... he was dead last on the team in:

PER, TS%, eFG%, ORtg, OWS, WS/48...

[koriwhat]

i've hoped, prayed, and wished for bonner to be gone for yrs now. dude keeps disappearing in the post-season, wish he'd disappear for good already.

[timvp]

BTW, as advanced stats go, this was Matt's worst offseason by far... he was dead last on the team in: WS/48...

:lol Drz kept pimping the fact that Bonner accidentally posted a good WS/48 last year. This season when he finished dead last, I haven't seen much discussion about that stat, tbh.

[Drz]

He's a 3 point specialist. It also has been argued his +/- stat is a reflection of how well he spaces the floor for everyone else. Stats that flatline once the playoffs roll around. This postseason was no exception.
His postseason numbers have been bad, including his +/-. I can't argue against that.

What I can argue (surprise!), as always, is sample size. For example, in 2011, Bonner was 3rd on the team in plus/minus (both adjusted and unadjusted), and 1st in win shares. Does that tell us anything? I don't think so, just as any one (or even four) postseasons don't tell us anything. There simply aren't enough minutes to make a meaningful judgment.

I did just think of something that could convince me otherwise: are there are long-tenured players with long, significant playoff resumes, where there playoff performance significantly differs from their regular season performance? Not just worse, but better too. If there are a handful or more, that might convince me that playoff chokers* or playoff stars exist.

* it's important to point out that I'm defining chokers as someone who, going forward, is expected to underperform. If we're defining a choker as someone who's underperformed in the past, yes, Bonner's a choker.

[Drz]

:lol Drz kept pimping the fact that Bonner accidentally posted a good WS/48 last year. This season when he finished dead last, I haven't seen much discussion about that stat, tbh.
I did notice, and yes, I chose not to bring it up.

At least it was positive! :king

Edit: Kind of funny that I repimped it in the post prior, I hadn't read your post when I made that one. :downspin:

[ElNono]

What I can argue (surprise!), as always, is sample size. For example, in 2011, Bonner was 3rd on the team in plus/minus (both adjusted and unadjusted), and 1st in win shares. Does that tell us anything? I don't think so, just as any one (or even four) postseasons don't tell us anything. There simply aren't enough minutes to make a meaningful judgment.

Everybody that plays in the postseason is constrained to a minute-limitation and thus sample size one way or another. Some more, some less, but overall, it applies to everybody. It's the nature of the beast.

Some players elevate their game. Some players play the same. Some players shit their pants. Matt has, after 4 seasons, been consistently on the latter group.

He didn't get more minutes this postseason because he sucked offensively, which is where his niche is supposed to be. Visual inspection backs it up, numbers back it up too.

This epic thread is a testament to the fact half of ST already knew two years ago that Matty just looks overwhelmed out there when the games count, and that the Spurs severely overpaid for the services of a player who can only play from October to late February.

[angelbelow]

As for the big red-head, I find that ragging on Bonner during the regular season is like ragging on why the leaves have not fallen from the trees in the summer. As we all know, the regular season IS Bonner's playoffs. And like the leaves that fall from the trees when the new fall season begins, so it is with Bonner's production. Except his contributions fall like leaves when the spring playoff season starts.


Actually I remember someone making the "seasons" analogy before. It might have been you but it was something like this: "Bonner's shot is like Snow, falls with great regularity in the winter, but is nowhere to be found come Spring time." :lol



We all know how this movie ends. We've watched it for four years. Why they refuse to move on from him is a mystery I'll never understand. Besides, with RJ out of the picture, I had to direct my vengance toward someone. :lol

I was hoping for a different ending this year. Out of all his playoff appearances, I thought this one had the highest chance of him playing well. We had a lot of depth, winning streak/momentum, and great chemistry going into the playoffs. And we didn't rely on Matt making his 3s to succeed. There should have been no pressure on him... but he still ended up missing his 3s and passing up shots. Terrible.

[baseline bum]

I was hoping for a different ending this year. Out of all his playoff appearances, I thought this one had the highest chance of him playing well. We had a lot of depth, winning streak/momentum, and great chemistry going into the playoffs. And we didn't rely on Matt making his 3s to succeed. There should have been no pressure on him... but he still ended up missing his 3s and passing up shots. Terrible.

I was really hoping (but of course not expecting) Bonner would make me eat crow this year. The previous years he didn't fit on this team at all since they had such lousy defenders like Jefferson and Blair playing meaningful minutes, but this year with Leonard, Jackson, and Splitter getting minutes, the team actually had guys capable of masking Bonner's defensive deficiencies enough that he could have been a major plus to the effort this time around. All I wanted was for the guy to shoot whenever he had a good look and to hit the wide open ones. This was the one time his skillset actually fit in really well, but dude shit the bed again. :depressed

[angelbelow]

All he had to do was relax, have some fun, and launch open 3s..

His -8 in 2 minutes against OKC was hauntingly bad too.

[therealtruth]

I was really hoping (but of course not expecting) Bonner would make me eat crow this year. The previous years he didn't fit on this team at all since they had such lousy defenders like Jefferson and Blair playing meaningful minutes, but this year with Leonard, Jackson, and Splitter getting minutes, the team actually had guys capable of masking Bonner's defensive deficiencies enough that he could have been a major plus to the effort this time around. All I wanted was for the guy to shoot whenever he had a good look and to hit the wide open ones. This was the one time his skillset actually fit in really well, but dude shit the bed again. :depressed


All he had to do was relax, have some fun, and launch open 3s..

His -8 in 2 minutes against OKC was hauntingly bad too.

People make it seem like we're asking Bonner to hit every shot he takes. We're just asking him to take those shots with confidence and not being scared. We've seen this movie over and over. The defensive intensity (quicker closeouts) and his slow release make it difficult for him to do that. Some counters are get a pullup jumper or step farther back from the line.

[SenorSpur]

This epic thread is a testament to the fact half of ST already knew two years ago that Matty just looks overwhelmed out there when the games count, and that the Spurs severely overpaid for the services of a player who can only play from October to late February.

^this

This thread also proves that many ST posters were late to the party, but most have finally come around and their eyes are now open to the obvious. Now, if only POP and the coaching staff would do the same and finally dump this guy on the first sucker they can find.

[Mel_13]

:lol


Two years down the road and this thread still delivers.

[AFBlue]

Wow, that AFBlue guy was WAY off!

[MannyIsGod]

Ah fuck. :(

Fucking Bonner.

[slick'81]

lol bonner fcking waste of space tim duncan thanks u fck tard

[lefty]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n2/awopbopaloobopalopbamboom/matt-bonner.jpg

[dylankerouac]

Hasn't Bonners defense been getting better every year? His post defense was really good this regular season, if I recall previous threads correctly. Maybe Bonner will become the defensive stalwart that could help. Or is there evidence showing that playoff Bonner chokes on defense too? Any takers?

[slick'81]

Hasn't Bonners defense been getting better every year? His post defense was really good this regular season, if I recall previous threads correctly. Maybe Bonner will become the defensive stalwart that could help. Or is there evidence showing that playoff Bonner chokes on defense too? Any takers?



wtf:wow

[dylankerouac]

Beastmode Bonner. It can happen.

[slick'81]

Beastmode Bonner. It can happen.


if he played against some middle school without a legit big

[manufor3]

Maybe Bonner will become the defensive stalwart that could help.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wAxDMfEGhoY/TSPwVvmmCPI/AAAAAAAAAYk/EVziTMTini0/s400/Not%2BSure%2Bif%2Bserious.jpg

[Drz]

Hasn't Bonners defense been getting better every year? His post defense was really good this regular season, if I recall previous threads correctly. Maybe Bonner will become the defensive stalwart that could help. Or is there evidence showing that playoff Bonner chokes on defense too? Any takers?
Here is how many points per 48 minutes the Spurs D (defense only! no offense in these stats) gave up with Bonner off the floor relative to on over the past 5 years. Positive is good, negative is bad.

2011: +1.53
2010: -0.86
2009: -1.76
2008: +1.94
2007: +3.03

I'm sure everyone realizes he doesn't have the lateral speed or hops to ever be a defensive "stalwart," but he's already more than serviceable. If he could improve his defense, he could legitimately be called a "good" defender.

[ElNono]

^ Are those playoff numbers? Honest question...

[Drz]

^ Are those playoff numbers? Honest question...
They are not. I did check them... and yes, the defensive numbers are worse in the postseason.

[ElNono]

They are not. I did check them... and yes, the defensive numbers are worse in the postseason.

Thanks. I thought that's what the other poster was asking.

[timvp]

the defensive numbers are worse in the postseason.

Quality understatement :lol

[Drz]

Thanks. I thought that's what the other poster was asking.
He asked two questions, and I chose to only answer the first. :king

In fairness to that 2nd question, they're not just worse, they're significantly worse. :depressed

[Russo21]

The re-signing of Matt Bonner. A sad sad day in Spurs history.

[dylankerouac]

He asked two questions, and I chose to only answer the first. :king

In fairness to that 2nd question, they're not just worse, they're significantly worse. :depressed

Thanks Drz.