Federally mandated LED lightbulbs to cost $50 each

[Wild Cobra]

LNG: less than a month. Block leave in Sep. Thats when I'm coming back to TX.
LOL...

LNG...

Liquid Natural Gas...

Are you saying he's a gasbag?

SnC... Glad to hear you are hurt the way some get injured. Have a safe return trip home.

[Wild Cobra]

I also can't wait for there to be quality LED lamps that actually outperform CFL's at lumens per watt and cost less than $80 for a 600-750 lumen flood light
They are here. The one I bought at Home depot to test is pretty damn good. I don't expect it to dim over time like CFLs do. When first put it in, I put a new 60 watt equivalent CFL next to it in the same 2-bulb ceiling fixture. It appeared the same brightness. It is rated at 950 lumens and the CFL is rated at 800. It cost me $36.97. After putting the 75 watt equivalent CFL in, I notices it is brighter that that one.

Like I said, CFLs degrade over time. Far more than incandescents, and I expect LEDs will degrade slower than incandescents.

the flood lights I saw available would be far more than that 600-750 lumen range. Didn't get their price, unless you mean the indoor type. They were also around $40 if I remember right.

[boutons_deux]

Tea baggers take one in the scrotum

House Rejects Tea Party Effort To Screw Up Light Bulbs

| Tea Party conservatives fell far short of the two-thirds majority required to pass Rep. Joe Barton’s (R-TX) BULB Act, which would have revoked lighting efficiency standards that are already reducing pollution, creating jobs, and spurring technological innovation. The 233 to 193 vote, although a majority, rejected the bill because it was being considered under suspension rules that allowed Republicans to avoid regular order. The five Democrats who voted in favor of this Republican joke were conservative Reps. Dan Boren (D-OK), Jerry Costello (D-IL), Jim Matheson (D-UT), Colin Peterson (D-MN), and Nick Rahall (D-WV). Ten Republicans voted against their party and for clean energy manufacturing, and one voted present.

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/07/12/267375/house-rejects-tea-party-effort-to-screw-up-light-bulbs/

[Wild Cobra]

I would vote NO on it also.


SEC. 3. MERCURY-CONTAINING LIGHTING.

No Federal, State, or local requirement or standard regarding energy efficient lighting shall be effective to the extent that the requirement or standard can be satisfied only by installing or using lamps containing mercury.

SEC. 4. STATE REGULATION.

No State or local regulation, or revision thereof, concerning the energy efficiency or energy use of medium screw base general service incandescent lamps shall be effective.
It's one thing to remove the federal requirements of Public Law 110-140, but to remove states rights?

No fucking way!

[Winehole23]

Not true. There have been studies of how washers don't clean as well as one example.http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172865

[vander]

They are here. The one I bought at Home depot to test is pretty damn good. I don't expect it to dim over time like CFLs do. When first put it in, I put a new 60 watt equivalent CFL next to it in the same 2-bulb ceiling fixture. It appeared the same brightness. It is rated at 950 lumens and the CFL is rated at 800. It cost me $36.97. After putting the 75 watt equivalent CFL in, I notices it is brighter that that one.

Like I said, CFLs degrade over time. Far more than incandescents, and I expect LEDs will degrade slower than incandescents.

the flood lights I saw available would be far more than that 600-750 lumen range. Didn't get their price, unless you mean the indoor type. They were also around $40 if I remember right.

how many watts does it use and what's the color temp?
everything I've seen in LED that's soft or warm white isn't any more efficient than a CFL.

my guess is that your bulb is 12 watts (not much less than CFL) and its the clear/bright bluish white

[Wild Cobra]

how many watts does it use and what's the color temp?
everything I've seen in LED that's soft or warm white isn't any more efficient than a CFL.

my guess is that your bulb is 12 watts (not much less than CFL) and its the clear/bright bluish white
It's a 13 watt 950 lumens 4900k vs. a 13 watt 800 lumen CFL.

Ecosmart ECS A19 V2 CW 120 (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-LED/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm79/R-202668649/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

They have them in soft white also, but I prefer daylight.

Is this what you're looking for:

EcoSmart PAR30 15-Watt (60W) LED Flood Light Bulb (E)* (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-LED/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm79/R-202324428/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/b1/b1915b3e-ad02-4efc-99b5-be6304ce9572_300.jpg


The EcoSmart PAR30 15-Watt (60W) LED Flood Light Bulb (E)* can be used to replace a PAR30 or 60-watt bulb. The energy-efficient LED flood light has an output of 725 lumens and can last up to 50,000 hours for extended use. The flood light can be used indoors or outdoors to allow for versatility and can help save up to $285 per bulb over the bulb's life. (E)* means this bulb meets Federal minimum efficiency standards.

Light output: 725 lumens
Energy used:15 watts
Life hours: 50,000 hours
Can last up to 46 years for extended use
Replaces PAR30 or 60-watt bulbs for a savings of $285 per bulb over the life of the bulb
Can be dimmed for light customization
Suitable for indoor or outdoor use to allow versatility
Clear bulb has a medium base type
Eco Options : Eco Options
MFG Brand Name : EcoSmart
MFG Model # : ECS 30 WW FL 120
MFG Part # : ECS 30 WW FL 120


A CFL 65 watt equivalent flood is only about 640 lumens at 14 watts.

EcoSmart 14-Watt (65W) Soft White CFL Floodlight Bulbs (2-Pack) (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-Flood-Spot/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmh0/R-202487540/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

Home depot also lists one at 650 lumens, but I've linked enough. The 14 watt 650 lumen CFL is 46.4 lumens/watt. The 15 watt LED is 48.3 lumens/watt.

Technology is getting there.

[RandomGuy]

The old 100 watt light bulb has it's uses. In some cases, it doubles as a heat source, like in chicken coops.

I am all for more energy efficient bulbs. Like I said, I just don't think people should be forced to buy something they don't want. If I had small children, I would not be buying the florescents. There are not any other affordable energy efficient ones that I know of. there is talk of the halogen, but they are expensive compared to incandescents, and not much more efficient.

No one forces you to light your house with electricity. That is your choice, as there are plenty of alternatives.

[boutons_deux]

Why the Biggest Energy Suck in Your House May Have to do With Your TV

In the United States alone there are over 160 million set-top boxes perched inside entertainment centers and on television sets. That's one for every two people in the country or 80 percent of U.S. households. The problem is largely due to the fact that modern set-top boxes operate at near full power even when nobody is even watching or recording a program. A new study reports that consumers in this country alone spend over $2 billion in electricity per year to run these little machines.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/151595/why_the_biggest_energy_suck_in_your_house_may_have _to_do_with_your_tv?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=alternet

[Wild Cobra]

No one forces you to light your house with electricity. That is your choice, as there are plenty of alternatives.
Really? At what cost? Do renters improve property for the owners? Then what about heat?

How much would it cost me to have natural gas run to a place without it?

What about those renting? Can they force the landlord to pay to have natural gas piped in, then change the appliances?

How about a remote farmer who keeps his chicken coupes warm with a lights rather than paying extra for heaters when only a little heat is needed?

One size fits all legislation always stinks.

[Wild Cobra]

Why the Biggest Energy Suck in Your House May Have to do With Your TV

In the United States alone there are over 160 million set-top boxes perched inside entertainment centers and on television sets. That's one for every two people in the country or 80 percent of U.S. households. The problem is largely due to the fact that modern set-top boxes operate at near full power even when nobody is even watching or recording a program. A new study reports that consumers in this country alone spend over $2 billion in electricity per year to run these little machines.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/151595/why_the_biggest_energy_suck_in_your_house_may_have _to_do_with_your_tv?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=alternet
Sorry, don't buy the whole story. The standby power is dramatically lower than the on power. However, bigger cheaper TV's do make for more power usage than in the past, and associated air conditioning costs as well.

[coyotes_geek]

???

The article is talking about the cable/satellite/dvr box hooked up to the tv, not the tv itself.

[MannyIsGod]

Sorry, don't buy the whole story. The standby power is dramatically lower than the on power. However, bigger cheaper TV's do make for more power usage than in the past, and associated air conditioning costs as well.

It never goes on standby. Thats kind of the point.

[Wild Cobra]

???

The article is talking about the cable/satellite/dvr box hooked up to the tv, not the tv itself.
OK, sure. They use energy about the same energy 24/7, but it's so small to begin with.

I assumed the article meant the TV sets also. Still, does a modern refrigerator only average 10 watts?

[ElNono]

OK, sure. They use energy about the same energy 24/7, but it's so small to begin with.

STB's are notorious for poor engineering when it comes to power saving.
For satellite, it has to do with the fact that if tuners are not kept constantly going, locating satellites can take anywhere from 3-5 mins. Obviously people want to watch TV as soon as they turn on their boxes. It's poor engineering though.
For digital cable boxes, the modem has to remain on and pinging the mothership, getting updates and key changes.

On top of that, providers send updates and gather viewing information from the devices at wee hours, meaning not just the box needing to be on, but the harddisk spinning (on DVR models).

They're racking up the money with the rental paid on those boxes though, so don't expect them to have any incentive to improve them.

[Winehole23]

Thread got fascinatin. :tu

[boutons_deux]

IT'S BAAAACK!

GOP Relights Effort to Extinguish Billions in Consumer Savings — as NBC Blows the Light Bulb Standards Story Entirely

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bulb.jpg

Like some horrible Freddy Krueger film, blocking the new energy efficiency standards for light bulbs is a bad idea that won’t die. The House of Representatives failed to pass it with the needed two-thirds vote on July 12, but it has arisen again to be offered as an amendment to the House FY 2012 Energy and Water appropriations bill, H.R. 2345. Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) plans to offer an amendment to this spending bill that would prevent the Department of Energy from spending funds to enforce the standards, though they would remain in place. The House vote is expected on Friday July 15th.

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/07/14/269068/nbc-blows-the-light-bulb-standards-story-entirely/

[RandomGuy]

IT'S BAAAACK!

GOP Relights Effort to Extinguish Billions in Consumer Savings — as NBC Blows the Light Bulb Standards Story Entirely

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bulb.jpg

Like some horrible Freddy Krueger film, blocking the new energy efficiency standards for light bulbs is a bad idea that won’t die. The House of Representatives failed to pass it with the needed two-thirds vote on July 12, but it has arisen again to be offered as an amendment to the House FY 2012 Energy and Water appropriations bill, H.R. 2345. Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) plans to offer an amendment to this spending bill that would prevent the Department of Energy from spending funds to enforce the standards, though they would remain in place. The House vote is expected on Friday July 15th.

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/07/14/269068/nbc-blows-the-light-bulb-standards-story-entirely/


During the debate on the BULB Act, H.R. 2014, to eliminate light bulb efficiency standards, several representatives raised concerns about mercury in CFLs. For instance, Rep. Ted Poe (R-TX) ominously warned

“These new light bulbs, these CFL light bulbs, are dangerous to our health. Dr. Burgess has already pointed out they contain mercury. I thought for years we were trying to get rid of the mercury in our environment, but it is in these light bulbs.”

Representatives Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), Michael Burgess (R-TX), and Randy Hultgren (R-IL) also raised concerns about mercury. Yet they all voted to prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from setting safeguards for mercury and other toxic pollutants from cement plants – the third largest source of mercury pollution.

:bang

[Winehole23]

Regulation is anti-business, m'kay?

[Wild Cobra]

During the debate on the BULB Act, H.R. 2014, to eliminate light bulb efficiency standards, several representatives raised concerns about mercury in CFLs. For instance, Rep. Ted Poe (R-TX) ominously warned

“These new light bulbs, these CFL light bulbs, are dangerous to our health. Dr. Burgess has already pointed out they contain mercury. I thought for years we were trying to get rid of the mercury in our environment, but it is in these light bulbs.”

Representatives Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), Michael Burgess (R-TX), and Randy Hultgren (R-IL) also raised concerns about mercury. Yet they all voted to prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from setting safeguards for mercury and other toxic pollutants from cement plants – the third largest source of mercury pollution
The difference is proximity to children.

Would you agree or disagree this is an important distinction?

[MannyIsGod]

Disagree. Pollution from all around the world contributes to the incredible mercury levels in the food chain today.

[boutons_deux]

"difference is proximity"

how big difference?

A test of 400 rivers showed that the fish of every single one was contaminated with methyl mercury which doesn't occur in nature, but is product of coal burning. That contamination is also in the soil crops are raised on, mixed with all the poisionous crap from Monsanto, Bayer, du Pont

[Wild Cobra]

"difference is proximity"

how big difference?

A test of 400 rivers showed that the fish of every single one was contaminated with methyl mercury which doesn't occur in nature, but is product of coal burning. That contamination is also in the soil crops are raised on, mixed with all the poisonous crap from Monsanto, Bayer, du Pont
I guess you consider a broken CFL in a Child's hand doesn't represent a bigger threat with the mercury vapor as a stream or river. How many children will be living in homes with CFL's vs. next to one of these rivers? How many of these fish are used to go to market? Do they go to nearly every home, like the standards will have CFL's doing?

[Winehole23]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/08/ff_lightbulbs/

[Winehole23]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/wp-content/images/19-09/ff_lightbulbs4_f.jpgBrett Sharenow with the Switch75.
Photo: Misha Gravenor

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/wp-content/images/19-09/ff_lightbulbs4_f.jpgBrett Sharenow with the Switch75.
Photo: Misha Gravenor
Looks very similar to the bulb I bought.

[Winehole23]

http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/story/2011-09-14/Easy-Bake-loses-its-bulb-gets-a-makeover/50398642/1

[RandomGuy]

http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/story/2011-09-14/Easy-Bake-loses-its-bulb-gets-a-makeover/50398642/1

Beat me to it, heh.

[RandomGuy]

The difference is proximity to children.

Would you agree or disagree this is an important distinction?

eek. That actually seemed like a reasonable thing to say.

[RandomGuy]

I guess you consider a broken CFL in a Child's hand doesn't represent a bigger threat with the mercury vapor as a stream or river. How many children will be living in homes with CFL's vs. next to one of these rivers? How many of these fish are used to go to market? Do they go to nearly every home, like the standards will have CFL's doing?

Again, good points.

I would argue that CFLs win the cost comparisons now, but LEDs are a fast moving technology, and will benefit from economies of scale as people switch to them, as I will be doing when our current crop of CFLs burn out.

Given that LEDs are available alternatives to CFLs, though one can't say the standards will force anyone to buy CFLs.

[Wild Cobra]

Given that LEDs are available alternatives to CFLs, though one can't say the standards will force anyone to buy CFLs.
What about those who have a hard time making ends meet already?

Tradition bulbs you can probably still find 3/$1.00. CFL's are $0.99 at best, already raising their costs one time costs if if they have a tight budget. Now LED's... will they ever by at the $1 range?

Lets see...

Parents can buy the CFL for $0.99 for the children's bedroom, to replace a traditional bulb they just broke playing, or pay $35 for a LED that I can't afford for them to break...

What will parents choose? How many parents even know the warning that are not clearly listed about broken CFL's and children?

I like the idea of promoting energy efficiency with the public, but to force it? How many things are we pricing out of range of lower income people?

Car insurance companies can no longer give great rates with a 10 year diving history because they can only base rates for 3 years... by law...

The working poor can no longer buy a $50 junker that runs because of emission testing standards for regulations that most metropolitan areas now have. How many people are now priced out of cars?

How many other things in the future, will we price the working poor out of, nickle and dimeing them to death?

Liberals love to advocate how they are the champions in the poor, but the poor come behind to so many other political agendas they have.

Just looked at the packaging of a CFL I have. No mercury warnings!

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you letting kids run around with broken light bulbs in their hands?

[Wild Cobra]

Why are you letting kids run around with broken light bulbs in their hands?
I take it you have no kids.

Children play. Toys get thrown, things get broken, and kids are curious.

Do I really need to elaborate more than that? Cannot watch a child every minute of every waking hour. Shit happens. It's bad enough if they get cut by glass, but glass with phosphorous, mercury, and other nasty chemicals...

[ElNono]

The amount of mercury is negligible. While it's a good idea to recycle them, 4-5 mg of mercury isn't going to make your kid more retarded than it currently is. As a comparison, the old mercury thermometers had 500mg.

Now, if you're letting them break a CFL every day maybe you shouldn't be a parent to begin with.

[ChumpDumper]

How many light bulbs did your children cut themselves with, WC?

This could explain a lot.

[admiralsnackbar]

Parents can buy the CFL for $0.99 for the children's bedroom, to replace a traditional bulb they just broke playing, or pay $35 for a LED that I can't afford for them to break...

As RG already pointed out (not to mention the several before him), LED bulbs will cost far less once economies of scale catch up to them. It's also worth pointing out that breaking an LED bulb would be rather difficult: not only is breaking one diode a chore in and of itself, breaking a bulb covered with the 20-50 of them would prove quite the project. And unlike incandescent or fluorescent bulbs, a kid couldn't potentially cut, poison, or electrocute himself (or burn the house down) if he decided to experiment with an LED bulb.

As far as unit sales crippling the poverty stricken... given said demographics are poverty stricken, it's hard to say a family won't pay 2-5 dollars for a bulb that will pay for itself in energy savings within a billing cycle or, at most, two. The only time people may be forced to pay $35 for a lightbulb is when inflation renders such a sum the equivalent of $1 in 2011 money.

[Wild Cobra]

As RG already pointed out (not to mention the several before him), LED bulbs will cost far less once economies of scale catch up to them. It's also worth pointing out that breaking an LED bulb would be rather difficult: not only is breaking one diode a chore in and of itself, breaking a bulb covered with the 20-50 of them would prove quite the project. And unlike incandescent or fluorescent bulbs, a kid couldn't potentially cut, poison, or electrocute himself (or burn the house down) if he decided to experiment with an LED bulb.

As far as unit sales crippling the poverty stricken... given said demographics are poverty stricken, it's hard to say a family won't pay 2-5 dollars for a bulb that will pay for itself in energy savings within a billing cycle or, at most, two. The only time people may be forced to pay $35 for a lightbulb is when inflation renders such a sum the equivalent of $1 in 2011 money.
I'm not sure, but I believe the LED bulbs are still encased in glass. that aside, I doubt their cost will ever be close to CFL's and it's hard to invest in long term payoffs when you are scraping by. Lighting is a small cost of the total electricity bill. At 10 cents/kwh, it takes almost 167 hours to cost $1 for a 60 watt bulb. based on a 4 hr/day usage, that is 42 days. Over 42 days, the 50 watt equivalent will cost about 22 cents.

How much money do you want someone to spend to save $1.89 per month for a dozen bulbs on 4 hrs a day?

[admiralsnackbar]

I'm not sure, but I believe the LED bulbs are still encased in glass. that aside, I doubt their cost will ever be close to CFL's

Again: economies of scale.

Ex: Wasn't so long ago that laptop screens used to be back-lit by fluorescent bulbs. Not just some -- ALL of them. Why? Because CFLs were the only light source that was flat and energy-efficient enough to work off a battery for any length of time. It was a cheap, universally adopted technology.

Then LED-backlit screens came along. They were way more expensive at first, but because the market laptop manufacturers' serve values battery life above most other features, and because LED LCDs were more efficient and much, much brighter, LED screens were quickly adopted and they laid waste to CFL-backlit monitors' market share: as LED screen market-shares rose, LED screen costs plummeted. Nowadays you can get a kick-ass LED-screen lap-top for $300, which was inconceivable just 10 yrs in the CFL back-lit days.

Why? [return to top]

And they all lived happily ever after.

[ChumpDumper]

Again: economies of scale.

Ex: Wasn't so long ago that laptop screens used to be back-lit by fluorescent bulbs. Not just some -- ALL of them. Why? Because CFLs were the only light source that was flat and energy-efficient enough to work off a battery for any length of time. It was a cheap, universally adopted technology.

Then LED-backlit screens came along. They were way more expensive at first, but because the market laptop manufacturers' serve values battery life above most other features, and because LED LCDs were more efficient and much, much brighter, LED screens were quickly adopted and they laid waste to CFL-backlit monitors' market share: as LED screen market-shares rose, LED screen costs plummeted. Nowadays you can get a kick-ass LED-screen lap-top for $300, which was inconceivable just 10 yrs in the CFL back-lit days.

Why? [return to top]

And they all lived happily ever after.Yeah, but how many kids broke those laptops and ate the screen?

You obviously don't have any children.

[Wild Cobra]

Again: economies of scale.

Ex: Wasn't so long ago that laptop screens used to be back-lit by fluorescent bulbs. Not just some -- ALL of them. Why? Because CFLs were the only light source that was flat and energy-efficient enough to work off a battery for any length of time. It was a cheap, universally adopted technology.

Then LED-backlit screens came along. They were way more expensive at first, but because the market laptop manufacturers' serve values battery life above most other features, and because LED LCDs were more efficient and much, much brighter, LED screens were quickly adopted and they laid waste to CFL-backlit monitors' market share: as LED screen market-shares rose, LED screen costs plummeted. Nowadays you can get a kick-ass LED-screen lap-top for $300, which was inconceivable just 10 yrs in the CFL back-lit days.

Why? [return to top]

And they all lived happily ever after.
We are talking small amounts of lighting requirements, and a more stable power source.

I agree, lights will come down more. However, a $10 difference in a laptop purchase usually costing $400 or more is a far cry difference than buying incandescent 3/$1, CFL's for $1, of LED for $5.

The $10 makes a $400 laptop cost 2.5% more. However, CFL's are 200% more than incandescent, and at $5, LEDs are 1400% more.

[admiralsnackbar]

We are talking small amounts of lighting requirements, and a more stable power source.

I agree, lights will come down more. However, a $10 difference in a laptop purchase usually costing $400 or more is a far cry difference than buying incandescent 3/$1, CFL's for $1, of LED for $5.

The $10 makes a $400 laptop cost 2.5% more. However, CFL's are 200% more than incandescent, and at $5, LEDs are 1400% more.

There are fare more light sockets on this earth than there are laptops.

See: economies of fucking scale.

[Wild Cobra]

There are fare more light sockets on this earth than there are laptops.

See: economies of fucking scale.
I'll just wait for the future. I'm pretty sure it will prove me correct.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll just wait for the future. I'm pretty sure it will prove me correct.You're saying the poor will revolt against buying light bulbs that will save them money?

[Winehole23]

http://enikrising.blogspot.com/2011/11/wheres-pro-phosphate-candidate.html

[Winehole23]

http://www.restockit.com/images/product/small/34953PG.jpg (http://www.restockit.com/cascade-automatic-dishwasher-detergent-85-oz-%2834953pg%29.html)

Cascade® With Phosphates - Automatic Dishwasher Detergent, 85 Oz, For Industrial Use Only (34953PG) (http://www.restockit.com/cascade-automatic-dishwasher-detergent-85-oz-%2834953pg%29.html) http://www.restockit.com/images/spacer.gif

List Price: $68.74
SUPER Sale Price $54.99 / Case of 6

[clambake]

http://www.restockit.com/images/product/small/34953PG.jpg (http://www.restockit.com/cascade-automatic-dishwasher-detergent-85-oz-%2834953pg%29.html)

Cascade® With Phosphates - Automatic Dishwasher Detergent, 85 Oz, For Industrial Use Only (34953PG) (http://www.restockit.com/cascade-automatic-dishwasher-detergent-85-oz-%2834953pg%29.html) http://www.restockit.com/images/spacer.gif

List Price: $68.74
SUPER Sale Price $54.99 / Case of 6

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Trisodium Phosphate

Trisodium phosphate is another popular alternative to muriatic acid and cleans masonry in much the same way as muriatic acid. Trisodium phosphate is a heavy-duty cleaning agent that poses some of the same dangers of muriatic acid. The substance is very reactive and should not be used with any other acids or cleaners as the resulting mixture can create noxious fumes. Using trisodium phosphate to clean a surface will not neutralize or etch the surface being cleaned. Users will need to test the surface pH before applying any other substance or chemicals that may react badly with the residual pH level. In some cities, trisodium phosphate is illegal to use, due to restrictions on phosphate pollution.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6600562_alternatives-muriatic-acid-wash_.html#ixzz1dQ2x8rOz

[Winehole23]

not so bad for 7 lb. boxes

[Drachen]

LemiShine is the bomb, and it allows me to use far less actual detergent.

[ChumpDumper]

Newegg just had a sale. LED bulbs for $13 each.

Sold out.

[Drachen]

No wonder they sold out, that is 74% off of the price that we will all be paying for bulbs from now on.

[Wild Cobra]

Newegg just had a sale. LED bulbs for $13 each.

Sold out.
What are they? 25 watt equivalents?

[ChumpDumper]

what are they? 25 watt equivalents?40.

[Wild Cobra]

40.
That's still a joke.

Who uses 40 watt bulbs, except for decorative lighting?

[ChumpDumper]

That's still a joke.

Who uses 40 watt bulbs, except for decorative lighting?All those people who bought them from Newegg, genius.

[Wild Cobra]

All those people who bought them from Newegg, genius.
Well they can have them.

When will 100 watt equivalents be affordable?

[ChumpDumper]

Well they can have them.

When will 100 watt equivalents be affordable?Define affordable.

[Drachen]

Define affordable.

His definition of affordable is based only on this exact moment with no thoughts about tomorrow. In other words, up front costs = his only consideration.

[boutons_deux]

MMA continues to trash Fox Repug Lying network

Fox Admits Defeat In Phony War On "Light Bulb Ban" (But Doesn't Know It)

Regular Fox News viewers know that the network has spent months hyping a nonexistent "light bulb ban" going into effect on Jan. 1, 2012, that they claim would outlaw incandescent light bulbs. The law in question -- signed by former President George W. Bush -- does not outlaw incandescent bulbs, only inefficient ones.

Yet Fox has never acknowledged that its war on the "light bulb ban" was phony -- until today. With no self-awareness, Fox & Friends hyped a bulb that reportedly meets the new efficiency standards -- and it happens to be an incandescent.

Not surprisingly, the co-hosts bungled the story: There is no "loophole" that "allows ... incandescent bulbs [to survive]," because the law itself doesn't outlaw incandescent bulbs. Here's part of the applicable section of the Energy Independence and Security Act:

Subtitle B: Lighting Energy Efficiency - (Sec. 321) Amends EPCA to prescribe energy efficiency standards for general service incandescent lamps, rough service lamps, and other designated lamps.

[...]

(Sec. 322) Sets forth minimum energy efficiency standards for incandescent reflector lamps.

The law sets forth efficiency standards for, among other types of bulbs, "general service incandescent lamps." It does not outlaw them.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201112050008?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MediaMattersForAmerica-CountyFair+%28Media+Matters+for+America+-+County+Fair%29

[Winehole23]

Over the past few years, energy-saving LED lights have popped up nearly every place where low power is required. They provide the backlighting for cellphones, smartphones and laptops as well as for headlamps for hikers, for instance.



But in the United States in particular, LED lights have not yet caught on for home lighting, still a bastion of the incandescent light bulb — which to this day is not much more efficient than when it was invented by Thomas Edison in 1879.



The problem is what’s called efficiency droop. LEDs function most efficiently at low currents. Turn the current up to levels needed for room lighting, and the efficiency falls off markedly. The lights don’t dim, but as you turn up the amount of electricity, you don’t get more light, so the efficiency goes down, a problem that has made it impossible for LED bulbs to be as cost-effective as incandescent or fluorescent home lighting.



“The efficiency droop is one of the most severe and most interesting problems and controversies in science and engineering,” said E. Fred Schubert, a professor of electrical engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y.



“Considering that LEDs are the winning future in lighting,” he added, it’s important “for industry and society that the efficiency droop be understood and solved.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/science/engineers-take-aim-at-efficiency-barrier-in-led-technology.html?_r=1

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/science/engineers-take-aim-at-efficiency-barrier-in-led-technology.html?_r=1
I don't buy that explanation. There are other problems not spoken about with LED's. I don't see them replacing lighting in any cost efficient way until some breakthroughs are made, but it's the control circuits that are a problem. LEDs have a specific voltage drop across the semiconductor junction. The current changes to change the lumen output. Brighter LEDs simply need more junctions in series/parallel, but then you get into a more difficult regulation circuit to remain efficient. The cheaper route is using more series resisters for voltage balance, and hence, more loss to resistive heat.

[DarrinS]

LED's are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application that uses a 400w metal halide bulb with 36,000 lumen output and color temp of 6000 Kelvin. Life is 25,000 hours.

If I wanted that kind of output from LED, I could use something like this

http://www.magnalight.com/pc-47061-2-LED-Light-Emitter--200-LEDs--600-Watts--50-X-4-Array--36000-Lumen--942VDC--IP68.aspx

But that uses 600w -- and the color temp is at the blue end of the spectrum. No thanks.

[Wild Cobra]

LED's are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application that uses a 400w metal halide bulb with 36,000 lumen output and color temp of 6000 Kelvin. Life is 25,000 hours.

If I wanted that kind of output from LED, I could use something like this

http://www.magnalight.com/pc-47061-2-LED-Light-Emitter--200-LEDs--600-Watts--50-X-4-Array--36000-Lumen--942VDC--IP68.aspx

But that uses 600w -- and the color temp is at the blue end of the spectrum. No thanks.
Like I said...

Look at what it says... 200 3 watt LED's. They are probably individually resister current controlled. make a more expensive current control, and that would probably drop under 40% of your halide lamp.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

LED's are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application that uses a 400w metal halide bulb with 36,000 lumen output and color temp of 6000 Kelvin. Life is 25,000 hours.

If I wanted that kind of output from LED, I could use something like this

http://www.magnalight.com/pc-47061-2-LED-Light-Emitter--200-LEDs--600-Watts--50-X-4-Array--36000-Lumen--942VDC--IP68.aspx

But that uses 600w -- and the color temp is at the blue end of the spectrum. No thanks.

Lol Darrin grows weed.

[DarrinS]

Lol Darrin grows weed.

Lol Darrin builds his own 1080p projector

[ChumpDumper]

lol your OP is still a complete failure.

[MannyIsGod]

Lol Darrin builds his own 1080p projector

LOL Darrin likes watching 1080p with crappy brightness.

[DarrinS]

LOL Darrin likes watching 1080p with crappy brightness.

Plenty bright and 102" diagonal

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't buy that explanation.

The well known verse of those on the right..:lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't buy that explanation.

The well known verse of those on the right..:lmao

[RandomGuy]

I don't buy that explanation. There are other problems not spoken about with LED's. I don't see them replacing lighting in any cost efficient way until some breakthroughs are made, but it's the control circuits that are a problem. LEDs have a specific voltage drop across the semiconductor junction. The current changes to change the lumen output. Brighter LEDs simply need more junctions in series/parallel, but then you get into a more difficult regulation circuit to remain efficient. The cheaper route is using more series resisters for voltage balance, and hence, more loss to resistive heat.

Think outside the bulb.

All one has to do is simply put a series of smaller, dimmer lights.

1000 lumens is 1000 lumens, whether it comes from 1 bulb or a strip of ten 100 lumen diodes.

[RandomGuy]

LED's are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application that uses a 400w metal halide bulb with 36,000 lumen output and color temp of 6000 Kelvin. Life is 25,000 hours.

If I wanted that kind of output from LED, I could use something like this

http://www.magnalight.com/pc-47061-2-LED-Light-Emitter--200-LEDs--600-Watts--50-X-4-Array--36000-Lumen--942VDC--IP68.aspx

But that uses 600w -- and the color temp is at the blue end of the spectrum. No thanks.

Them fancy aeroplanes are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application where I need to get artillery observers up in the air for hours, with telegraph wires to tell our cannons where to shoot.

If'n I wanted that kind of airtime from an aeroplane, it would be too heavy to fly.

They won't never invent a plane that would be practical, so let's stick to tried and true technology, hot air derigibles.

[DarrinS]

Them fancy aeroplanes are good for some things -- for others, not so much.

I have an application where I need to get artillery observers up in the air for hours, with telegraph wires to tell our cannons where to shoot.

If'n I wanted that kind of airtime from an aeroplane, it would be too heavy to fly.

They won't never invent a plane that would be practical, so let's stick to tried and true technology, hot air derigibles.


You should stick to accounting.

[DarrinS]

Gotta admit, this is pretty cool

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xml.asp

[Wild Cobra]

Gotta admit, this is pretty cool

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xml.asp

I spent some time looking at the various documentation. Look pretty promising.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Gotta admit, this is pretty cool

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xml.asp

Being able to vary the EM frequency output of a diode would be interesting. Arraying diodes is anything but interesting. You like NASCAR too? Watching them go around in circles?

[Wild Cobra]

Being able to vary the EM frequency output of a diode would be interesting. Arraying diodes is anything but interesting. You like NASCAR too? Watching them go around in circles?
Always the spoil sport. Aren't you...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Always the spoil sport. Aren't you...

Well explain to me what so fascinating about their design. I actually know what goes into the design of such things and its anything but exciting. Was there some innovation of the geometry of the array that I missed or you just impressed by stupid shit?

[Drachen]

I would assume that the array isn't what is interesting, he is probably referring to the results.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would assume that the array isn't what is interesting, he is probably referring to the results.

Oh I get that but you have no idea how dull the actual design of this type stuff is. i am sure that the cost point analysis is just so riveting as well.

[DarrinS]

Well explain to me what so fascinating about their design. I actually know what goes into the design of such things and its anything but exciting. Was there some innovation of the geometry of the array that I missed or you just impressed by stupid shit?


Often, good design is taking existing off-the-shelf technology and putting it together in a way that no one had thought of. Dyson products come to mind. With their "dull" design, they produced the brightest LED in the world and across a wide spectrum of white.

But, since you know everything already, I'm not telling you something you don't already know.

[coyotes_geek]

I know everybody here was wondering whether or not republicans were still crusading to protect our homes against invasion by superior domestic illumination products. Fear not! They still are.

House Adopts Measure to Halt Light-Bulb Efficiency Law
(http://finance.yahoo.com/news/house-adopts-measure-halt-light-041500022.html)

[boutons_deux]

TX Repug asshole leading the charge against energy efficiency

"People are sick of the government treading where it just doesn't belong," said Representative Michael Burgess, a Texas Republican who sponsored the light-bulb amendment"

[Drachen]

FUCKIN MIC! ALWAYS KILLING THE EARTH!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/army-scientists-juice-battery-voltage-up-to-30-percent/#continued

[Wild Cobra]

TX Repug asshole leading the charge against energy efficiency

"People are sick of the government treading where it just doesn't belong," said Representative Michael Burgess, a Texas Republican who sponsored the light-bulb amendment"
Why are you so worried about flood lamps, of which are not as common as indoor bulbs?

41. H.AMDT.1210 to H.R.5325 An amendment numbered 10 printed in the Congressional Record to prohibit the use of funds to be used to 1) implement or enforce section 430.32(x) of title 10, Code of Federal Regulations or 2) implement or enforce the standards established by the tables contained in section 325(i)(1)(B) of the Energy Policy and Conservation Act with respect to BPAR incandescent reflector lamps, BR incandescent reflector lamps, and ER incandescent reflector lamps.

Do you really want to spend money on lamp police?

I would ask you to show me how partisan this amendment was, but there is no record. Did you know this was passed with a voice vote, which means enough democrats, probably most, also agreed to the amendment...

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you so worried about flood lamps, of which are not as common as indoor bulbs?There are more than a few out there.


Do you really want to spend money on lamp policeHow do the lamp police work? Explain their job titles and their responsibilities.

[Wild Cobra]

How do the lamp police work? Explain their job titles and their responsibilities.
LOL...

Exactly, so why pay for enforcement?

[ChumpDumper]

LOL...

Exactly, so why pay for enforcement?LOL...

Exactly, you don't know anything about it and are just talking out of your ass.

Again.

[CosmicCowboy]

Denying money for enforcement is a time honored and frequently used "check and balance" mechanism for when Congress thinks the Executive branch has overstepped. It's not about light bulb police but can even be broadly extended to printing and distributing copies of the regulation and naturally money can't be expended enforcing it either.

[boutons_deux]

Repugs just defunded the FCC from having broadcasters published online their political advertizers.

Repugs defunded SEC (which is wimpy police force anyway, see JPMChase with 100 embedded police who missed the $3B bad bet)

Repugs are defunding ACA, and everything that the Dems have passed (except MIC)

[ChumpDumper]

Denying money for enforcement is a time honored and frequently used "check and balance" mechanism for when Congress thinks the Executive branch has overstepped. It's not about light bulb police but can even be broadly extended to printing and distributing copies of the regulation and naturally money can't be expended enforcing it either.I imagine enforcement probably won't be necessary anyway. I haven't heard of one light bulb maker opposing the new regulations in the first place.

[Drachen]

I imagine enforcement probably won't be necessary anyway. I haven't heard of one light bulb maker opposing the new regulations in the first place.

In fact, they were pissed that the republicans were trying to strip them away.

[boutons_deux]

Just another fabricated "hate government" controversy by Fox Repug net and their bubba devotees here.

[coyotes_geek]

In fact, they were pissed that the republicans were trying to strip them away.

Probably to some extent, but it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal to them now as it would have been had this all happened back in 08 or 09 shortly after the regulations were passed. We're far enough along now in the process where the bulb makers have already made the up front investment in getting compliant bulbs to market and are already seeing prices come down as they get more efficient at it. The LED lights I bought a year ago for $40 are already down to $25-$30. Prices are going to keep declining. Regulations or no regulations LEDs will eventually hit a price point where people are going to be willing to look past the high up front cost and focus on how an LED bulb will last 10 times as long and use 1/5th of the electricity.

In that sense, you could probably make a decent case that the regulations have already worked whether they end up getting enacted or not.

Not saying that the regulations should be repealed, I don't think they should, just that if they were repealed I don't think it would be the end of the movement to more efficient lightbulbs.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

Exactly, you don't know anything about it and are just talking out of your ass.

Again.
You right. You know as well as I do, they wouldn't be actual police. They would act like traffic police. Look for violators and fine them.

Why do you want to see such floodlights disappear?

[ChumpDumper]

You right. You know as well as I do, they wouldn't be actual police. They would act like traffic police. Look for violators and fine them.Would they really? Who is planning on violating the law?


Why do you want to see such floodlights disappear?Straw man.

[boutons_deux]

"Why do you want to see such floodlights disappear?"

LED street lights are available and being installed to save electricity, replacement costs.

[Wild Cobra]

"Why do you want to see such floodlights disappear?"

LED street lights are available and being installed to save electricity, replacement costs.
My God you shithead. They are still too many factors more expensive. How many do you own?

[boutons_deux]

LED stop lights are everywhere. the LEDs are reliable, the driver electronics much less so.

It's been years since I've seen a cop or EMS vehicule with incandescent flashers.

running, turning, stop lights are all LED on recent car models.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fus.yhs4.search.yahoo.com%2F yhs%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dled%2Bstreet%2Blights%26type%3D685749%26hs imp%3Dyhs-affiliate_a_gc%26hspart%3Dgreentree&w=160&h=120&imgurl=www.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dled%2B street%2Blights%23focal%3D80e20451a28dac0954740cd9 1c6154d8%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fearthfirst.co m%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2009%252f06%252fled-street-lights.jpg&size=&name=search&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch% 3Fq%3Dled%2Bstreet%2Blights%23focal%3D80e20451a28d ac0954740cd91c6154d8%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fe arthfirst.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2009%252f06%252fled-street-lights.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dled%2Bstreet%2Blights%23focal%3D80e20451a28da c0954740cd91c6154d8%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fea rthfirst.com%252fwp-content%252fuploads%252f2009%252f06%252fled-street-lights.jpg&p=led+street+lights&type=&no=3&tt=115&oid=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbn ail.aspx%3Fq%3D4637362690654921%26id%3Dae6915e84da 702351271b0811d773c62&tit=led-street-lights&sigr=15os5bpg1&sigi=15hgqt6g4&sigb=13tig0kv7&fr=yhs-greentree-affiliate_a_gc

you righties are knee-jerk retrogrades.

I don't own any LED street lights. :)

[Wild Cobra]

What about floodlights? That was my question. How much do you pay for a 2500 lumen LED floodlight vs. a 2500 lumen incandescent? I use two floodlights. How many do you use? I believe the LED ones are about $500 each. The incandescent are about $3. Why should I be paid to pay so much more for such a limited application? Even the florescent are pretty spendy when you get that much light out of one.

These are far from cost effective yet.

This legislation is about floodlights.

[Wild Cobra]

you righties are knee-jerk retrogrades.

I don't own any LED street lights. :)
Do you know of any 2500 lumen LED replacements that fit a standard floodlight fixture?

https://c808505.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/3555_3c33445cd99baaff3fb38e519c2ab23f1602b14f_orig inal_x_150.jpg (http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/par38-flood-light-bulbs/)

[Wild Cobra]

Here's a good summary of the section of the legislation they decided not to enforce:

SEC. 322. INCANDESCENT REFLECTOR LAMP EFFICIENCY STANDARDS (http://www.bulbsplus.net/lighting-industry-news/energy-independence.htm)

[boutons_deux]

Do you know of any 2500 lumen LED replacements that fit a standard floodlight fixture?

https://c808505.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/3555_3c33445cd99baaff3fb38e519c2ab23f1602b14f_orig inal_x_150.jpg (http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/par38-flood-light-bulbs/)

LED Street Lighting Trial in 12 of World’s Largest Cities Shows Up to 85% Energy Savings

Key findings include:

Surveys in Kolkata, London, Sydney and Toronto indicated that between 68% to 90% of respondents endorsed LEDs city-wide rollout. Benefits highlighted included improved safety and visibility.

LED lighting trialed lifespan ranges from 50,000 to 100,000 hours indicating a high return on investment.

LED failure rate over 6,000 hours is around 1%.

The Climate Group and Philips are calling for an international low carbon lighting standard to be created and implemented ensuring that citizens worldwide have access to energy efficient outdoor lighting.


http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120617005035/en/LED-Street-Lighting-Trial-12-World%E2%80%99s-Largest

Now if they'd only design, in traffic lights, the driver electronics to be as reliable as the LEDs.

[Wild Cobra]

LED Street Lighting Trial in 12 of World’s Largest Cities Shows Up to 85% Energy Savings

Key findings include:

Surveys in Kolkata, London, Sydney and Toronto indicated that between 68% to 90% of respondents endorsed LEDs city-wide rollout. Benefits highlighted included improved safety and visibility.

LED lighting trialed lifespan ranges from 50,000 to 100,000 hours indicating a high return on investment.

LED failure rate over 6,000 hours is around 1%.

The Climate Group and Philips are calling for an international low carbon lighting standard to be created and implemented ensuring that citizens worldwide have access to energy efficient outdoor lighting.


http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120617005035/en/LED-Street-Lighting-Trial-12-World%E2%80%99s-Largest

Now if they'd only design, in traffic lights, the driver electronics to be as reliable as the LEDs.
LOL...

I ask about floodlights, which is the part of the legislation they decided not to enforce, and you bring up street lights?

Do you know the difference?

Yep....

I'm really going to put a streetlight by my gated fence.

Serous question.

What LED lamp will fit in my floodlight fixture and supply the same illumination. A streetlamp is not compatible. When you find one compact enough, how much will it cost me?

[boutons_deux]

Flood lights aren't a big part, or any part, of my life, so GFY.

LED illumination is coming on big, you retrograde troglodyte.

your retrograde position: "It's not good (enough) for me now, so fuck it", showing us the way forward. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Flood lights aren't a big part, or any part, of my life, so GFY.

LED illumination is coming on big, you retrograde troglodyte.

your retrograde position: "It's not good (enough) for me now, so fuck it", showing us the way forward. :lol
I have no problem with LED lighting. I only have incandescent in my flashlights and automobile. In my home, I have Florescent and LED.

The regulation the decided not to enforce is a very small portion of the products. Almost exclusively Flood Lighting. I agree with the decision. Though I am still opposed to the authoritarian nature of out government mandates, I am in agreement with using more efficient lighting.

Again... Flood Lights are different.

I believe it takes about $600 to purchase a 2500 lumen LED floodlight, and it will not fit in a standard fixture. That means you have the added cost to pay electricians to change your fixtures around a barn, commercial building, house, etc.

Fuck that.

[TeyshaBlue]

Speaking of kick ass LED lighting:

How about controlling your lights from your phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/21/insteon-says-apps-are-better-than-switches/

[boutons_deux]

Speaking of kick ass LED lighting:

How about controlling your lights from your phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/21/insteon-says-apps-are-better-than-switches/

These kinds of apps usually require a monthly subscription to the suppliers server (accessed by their app). and typically $1/day, to save how much electricity?

the ripoff enslaving cellphone cartel could get into this business with if they let your cellphone call your in-house cell station that would call your equipment.

All this shit is $1000s to set up and $100/s year forever in subscription.

[TeyshaBlue]

This requires a $120 wireless base module, no subscription and the app is free. http://homerecording.com/bbs/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

[TeyshaBlue]

Stop stalking me!:cry

[leemajors]

Speaking of kick ass LED lighting:

How about controlling your lights from your phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/21/insteon-says-apps-are-better-than-switches/

good for when you're away from home too, rotate lights on.

[TeyshaBlue]

good for when you're away from home too, rotate lights on.

You can design lighting macros for lighting "scenes". Sounds kinda cool.

[Drachen]

These kinds of apps usually require a monthly subscription to the suppliers server (accessed by their app). and typically $1/day, to save how much electricity?

the ripoff enslaving cellphone cartel could get into this business with if they let your cellphone call your in-house cell station that would call your equipment.

All this shit is $1000s to set up and $100/s year forever in subscription.

You should probably educate yourself a little before you go all bruce banner on a benign informational post by another member. It's literally not that hard to check out his claim.

[clambake]

Speaking of kick ass LED lighting:

How about controlling your lights from your phone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/21/insteon-says-apps-are-better-than-switches/

awesome. i could completely fuck with the family!

[TeyshaBlue]

You should probably educate yourself a little before you go all bruce banner on a benign informational post by another member. It's literally not that hard to check out his claim.

Why start now?:lol

[TeyshaBlue]

awesome. i could completely fuck with the family!

My first thought exactly. :tu

[TeyshaBlue]

What's weird is they have a wireless chip in the socket of each bulb. That's pretty cool but, Fucking magnets! How do they work?

[Drachen]

What's weird is they have a wireless chip in the socket of each bulb. That's pretty cool but, Fucking magnets! How do they work?

LOL! that and you can't explain the tides!

[MannyIsGod]

I need an app on my phone where I clap and the lights come on.

[TeyshaBlue]

Done.
http://ironink.wordpress.com/2009/01/24/iphone-clapper/

[ElNono]

Done.
http://ironink.wordpress.com/2009/01/24/iphone-clapper/

Now this is service...

[Winehole23]

http://buildaroo.com/news/article/led-review-roundup-led-bulb-buy-home/

[Winehole23]

http://bestdesignews.com/exterior-design/led-bulb-with-filament-bulb-appearance/

[boutons_deux]

http://bestdesignews.com/exterior-design/led-bulb-with-filament-bulb-appearance/

Pretty cool, but 2700K is very warm/yellow, white sunlight being about 5780

[ElNono]

Just bought a CFL bulb on the Dollar Tree this weekend... those things have come down in price...

[Wild Cobra]

http://bestdesignews.com/exterior-design/led-bulb-with-filament-bulb-appearance/

the light equivalent to a 20-watt incandescent
No go for me.

60W+ equivalent, or what's the point?

Besides, years ago when I went CFL, I went to daylight color. I believe they are 5700K spectrum.

[Winehole23]

http://www.realcleartechnology.com/images/wysiwyg_images/LED.jpg

[Th'Pusher]

I was at Lowes the other day and was taken taken aback at how many options I had to choose between light bulbs. There are now a ton of LED options and the prices have significantly dropped.

[Wild Cobra]

I was at Lowes the other day and was taken taken aback at how many options I had to choose between light bulbs. There are now a ton of LED options and the prices have significantly dropped.
I haven't looked for any in a while. That LED bulb I bought some time back is still working fantastic. What are they down to in price? Ar they at $5 or less yet?

[Wild Cobra]

Well, just plugged in an Ecosmart Daylight White A19 V2 CW 120. 13 watt 60 watt equivalent, 4900k, 950 lumens. Picked it up at Home depot for $36.97. Looks as bright as the 60 watt equivalent CFL it's next to.


The LED's I bet stay pretty cool. It's the electronics that drives them that gets hot. Your stage lighting LED's will have these controls at the dimmer controls. Probably in a decent size box with a fan.

LED's are Light Emitting DIODES. A diode has a constant breakdown voltage. If your voltage is less, it will not light. If it is more, it will burn out instantly. No room for error, therefore a current control of some sort is necessary for them to maintain their voltage under changing conditions. I'm sure the circuitry will get better as competition increases. I am frankly surprised they get as hot as they do. I understand it though. Maybe I should say disappointed they didn't use a better circuitry design.

The link I previously posted has this picture:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/cd/cd46b55b-8eac-45d8-b302-e5bd02346d01_300.jpg

Those cooling fins do get hot.


They are here. The one I bought at Home depot to test is pretty damn good. I don't expect it to dim over time like CFLs do. When first put it in, I put a new 60 watt equivalent CFL next to it in the same 2-bulb ceiling fixture. It appeared the same brightness. It is rated at 950 lumens and the CFL is rated at 800. It cost me $36.97. After putting the 75 watt equivalent CFL in, I notices it is brighter that that one.

Like I said, CFLs degrade over time. Far more than incandescents, and I expect LEDs will degrade slower than incandescents.

the flood lights I saw available would be far more than that 600-750 lumen range. Didn't get their price, unless you mean the indoor type. They were also around $40 if I remember right.

[Winehole23]

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/136797-how-its-made-switchs-liquid-filled-light-bulbs

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/136797-how-its-made-switchs-liquid-filled-light-bulbs

Very nice.

Data Sheet: SWITCH100 (http://www.switchlightingco.com/lib/pdf/SWITCH100_083112.pdf)

I wonder if they will make them in ~5700K color?

[DMC]

I've had LED bulbs on my front entrance and drive way for 5 years, same bulbs. They do just fine. I don't need to be able to tan under them.

[Wild Cobra]

I've had LED bulbs on my front entrance and drive way for 5 years, same bulbs. They do just fine. I don't need to be able to tan under them.
LOL...

I just prefer a daylight color instead of cool white.

[DMC]

Very nice.

Data Sheet: SWITCH100 (http://www.switchlightingco.com/lib/pdf/SWITCH100_083112.pdf)

I wonder if they will make them in ~5700K color?
If it goes for the rumored price (~25.00) I will try one out and may end up with a house full. Imagine you can run two in a fixture that's rated for the power dissipation of only 2 60W incandescent bulbs. Even just one, 1600 Lumens in an otherwise rated for 40 (think bench grinder or lathe lighting) would be sweet.

[Wild Cobra]

If it goes for the rumored price (~25.00) I will try one out and may end up with a house full. Imagine you can run two in a fixture that's rated for the power dissipation of only 2 60W incandescent bulbs. Even just one, 1600 Lumens in an otherwise rated for 40 (think bench grinder or lathe lighting) would be sweet.
Time to check out Lowes, Home depot, etc. At that price, I will pick some up too.

[TeyshaBlue]

Cree Reaches LED Industry Milestone with 200 Lumen-Per-Watt LED

http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2012/december/mkr-intro



At only 185 degrees.

[Wild Cobra]

Cree Reaches LED Industry Milestone with 200 Lumen-Per-Watt LED

http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2012/december/mkr-intro



At only 185 degrees.
Nice!

[boutons_deux]

Cree Reaches LED Industry Milestone with 200 Lumen-Per-Watt LED

http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2012/december/mkr-intro

" enable the next generation of performance in our indoor directional luminaires.”

luminaires? really, fucking luminaires? :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Hahawwwgh...Hahawwwgh! *French Laugh*

[Wild Cobra]

Shazbot...

You mean Illuminatis?

[Drachen]

Cree Reaches LED Industry Milestone with 200 Lumen-Per-Watt LED

http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2012/december/mkr-intro



At only 185 degrees.

well, people have winter tires that they change out, why can't they have winter light bulbs that they change out.
They would be super efficient, save you electricity and heating.

[TeyshaBlue]

well, people have winter tires that they change out, why can't they have winter light bulbs that they change out.
They would be super efficient, save you electricity and heating.

Actually, 185f is less than what an incandescent bulb operates at.

[TeyshaBlue]

Smarty McSmarty pants!

[Drachen]

Actually, 185f is less than what an incandescent bulb operates at.

yeah, but incandescents aren't efficiently producing that heat.

Intelligent McIntelligenty pants!

[Drachen]

Ok, I didn't know that was the case, so I guess this is bigger news than I thought!

Stupid McPoopy head.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/Forrest_Gump_22.jpg


:lol

[Wild Cobra]

FYI.

For some years now, he have hundreds of these in our equipment. Not to save electricity, but because when automation equipment indicator lamps burn out, it is difficult on the operators at times. It can also be a daily routine to replace the incandescents when you use so many lamps prone to burning out.

http://imageserver.grainger.com/is/image/Grainger/6CJW6_AS01?$productdetail$ (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GENERAL-ELECTRIC-Miniature-LED-Bulb-6CJW6)

[coyotes_geek]

Future dims for incandescent bulb, despite Texas’ unique law
(http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/future-dims-for-incandescent-bulb-despite-texas-un/nTkkP/)
By David Barer

One Texas lawmaker looked up and saw beauty in the array of glowing incandescent bulbs hanging from the state House of Representatives' chandelier. Another lawmaker flipped on the lights in a University of Texas bathroom and couldn’t tell if the compact fluorescent bulbs were broken or if he was going blind.

Those experiences, and a helping of small-government philosophy (:lmao), spurred the creation of a state law counteracting federal legislation to phase out inefficient bulbs. The law allows Texans to manufacture incandescent bulbs, create jobs and keep traditional incandescent bulbs on store shelves.

To date, not a single in-state bulb manufacturer has materialized, incandescent bulb selection in hardware stores is dwindling, and the sweeping federal law on light bulb efficiency continues to cause confusion among retailers while skipping regulation of some widely used energy-sucking bulbs.

“The most disappointing thing to me is that we haven’t found anyone willing to put in a plant and make them,” said state Rep. George Lavender, R-Texarkana, an author of the bill, which took effect Jan. 1, 2012.

Other states have written similar legislation, but Texas has been the only state to pass it into law.

The light bulb hubbub began in 2007 when Congress passed the Energy Independence and Security Act, a 300-plus-page law that, among other things, set tougher energy-efficiency standards that traditional incandescent bulbs don’t meet. Standards that went into effect a year ago, for instance, require manufacturers to produce bulbs that provide as much light as the traditional 100-watt bulb but use only 72 watts of electricity. Compact fluorescent bulbs and LED light bulbs easily meet the new standards.

That federal legislation spurred Lavender, Reps. Marva Beck, R-Centerville, Bryan Hughes, R-Mineola, Cindy Burkett, R-Mesquite, and more than two dozen others to kick back at federal meddling and the stretching of the interstate commerce clause, Hughes said.

“It was about more than light bulbs,” Hughes said. “I also don’t like compact fluorescent bulbs,” he added.

The federal legislation succeeded in exposing customers to the benefits of higher-efficiency bulbs, but the phase-out process has been confusing, said Kelly McGary, manager of The Light Bulb Shop in North Austin.

McGary sells just about every type of light bulb used in Austin through her small shop on Burnet Road, from new LED Christmas lights to old-school sodium bulbs and 1,500-watt, high-intensity bulbs that look like glass footballs.

She’s not sure how much longer the remaining incandescent bulbs in her shop will be available — maybe a year, she speculated. The conversion process has been muddy, she said.

Manufacture and importation of traditional 100-watt incandescent bulbs ceased on Jan. 1, 2012, but retailers can still sell them as long as the bulbs were made or imported prior to that date. The new standards began to be applied to 75-watt bulbs on Monday and will be extended to 60- and 40-watt bulbs on Dec. 31, 2013, said Anne Guertin, spokeswoman for light bulb manufacturer Osram Sylvania, in an email.

While residential customers are changing their light bulbs, many streets in Texas are still illuminated by large, energy-guzzling bulbs not regulated by the federal act.

Parking lots and street lamps use high-wattage bulbs that can burn 10 or 12 hours straight, but residential customers burning 100-watt bulbs for maybe eight hours a day were targeted, McGary said.

“I don’t think those are the big energy suckers,” McGary said.

Austin Energy is slowly replacing the city’s 70,000 streetlights with more efficient LED lights. The utility is also updating the remote timing system and improving fixture covers so light shines down, not out. None of the changes were required by legislation, Austin Energy spokesman Ed Clark said.

“We are doing it through attrition,” Clark said.

At a Home Depot near Interstate 35 and Ben White Boulevard, store manager Sean McMullen has watched the once marginal LED and compact fluorescent bulbs become the majority of bulbs on display. Prices have dropped, and manufacturers have tweaked the bulbs to make the light quality more pleasing. Customers are getting into the mindset of conservation, McMullen said.

“When I introduced the bill, the LEDs were $50 a piece; that’s just not affordable,” Lavender said. “They are coming down. I bought some LEDs the other day for $15. They will probably be worth it.”

[boutons_deux]

Future dims for incandescent bulb, despite Texas’ unique law (http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/future-dims-for-incandescent-bulb-despite-texas-un/nTkkP/)

TX Repug legislators are fucking stupid, as are the Texans who elect them, repeatedly.

[boutons_deux]

Soraa Pushes LED Brightness to Next Level
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/511306/soraa-pushes-led-brightness-to-next-level/

I'm amazed at how bright are the LEDs on cop/emergency vehicles, can see the mile or more in the distance.

[TeyshaBlue]

I picked up some cool hanging fixtures for my kitchen remodel. They're recycled from a greasy spoon from my old home town. I'm having them replated right now, but when I get them back, I'm dropping these retro bulbs in 'em.
http://www.creeledrevolution.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Edisonbulb.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

Soraa Pushes LED Brightness to Next Level
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/511306/soraa-pushes-led-brightness-to-next-level/

I'm amazed at how bright are the LEDs on cop/emergency vehicles, can see the mile or more in the distance.

I don't know what the local cops are running for light, but they might be like those. They're painfully bright.

[Winehole23]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6805/philips-hue-automated-home-lighting-gets-colorful

[LnGrrrR]

I picked up some cool hanging fixtures for my kitchen remodel. They're recycled from a greasy spoon from my old home town. I'm having them replated right now, but when I get them back, I'm dropping these retro bulbs in 'em.
http://www.creeledrevolution.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Edisonbulb.jpg

That doesn't look very efficient at all. Why do you hate Mother Earth? :cry :cry

[spursncowboys]

http://www.carbonfund.org/

All he has to do is pay for his hatred to make things right

[Drachen]

Dude, these fuckin LEDs are 50 bucks for 60We

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/5/4068174/cree-10-dollar-led-light-bulb-incandescent

If you are buying 5.

[spursncowboys]

TeyshaBlue: But seriously. Please post the final product. Sounds pretty cool

[Wild Cobra]

_lcIb4l4dm8

[DarrinS]

_lcIb4l4dm8

Just saw the same thing on kickstarter. Seems like they have a thoughtful design.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu?ref=discover_pop

[Wild Cobra]

Just saw the same thing on kickstarter. Seems like they have a thoughtful design.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu?ref=discover_pop
Thanks for that extra link. I'll take a chance of it not being a scam. I just backed them with $50.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/nanolightbacker_zpsf639ffe1.jpg

[boutons_deux]

New Technology Inspires a Rethinking of Light


"This is the move from the last industrial-age analog technology to a digital technology," said Fred Maxik, the chief technology officer with the Lighting Science Group Corporation, one of many newer players in the field.

The efforts start with energy efficiency and cost savings but go far beyond replacing inefficient incandescent bulbs. Light's potential to heal, soothe, invigorate or safeguard people is being exploited to introduce products like the blanket, versions of which are offered by General Electric and in development at Philips, the Dutch electronics giant.

Innovations on the horizon range from smart lampposts that can sense gas hazards to lights harnessed for office productivity or even to cure jet lag. Digital lighting based on light-emitting diodes - LEDs - offers the opportunity to flit beams delicately across stages like the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge - creating a light sculpture more elegant than the garish marketers' light shows on display in Times Square, Piccadilly Circus and the Shibuya district in Tokyo.

One reason adoption will speed up, Mr. Crawford believes, is that in recent years, consumers have been asked to compromise on quality to get energy savings. With the latest generation of LEDs, he said, "the consumer gets the energy savings without compromise."

Energy efficiency is only the beginning, according to experts on the lighting innovations. Take communication between lights. At the University of California, Davis, a bike path illuminated at night with a "just in time" system has one light node alerting another and another down the line as a bicycle goes by, progressively lighting the rider's way, then dimming back into an energy-saving mode.



Michael Siminovitch, director of the California Lighting Technology Center at the university, said that with the new technology "we're going to be able to create a variety of control features in terms of how we introduce points of light in space, but we're also going to be able to do it with planes and areas of light." For example, he said, there could be light-generating ceilings or walls.

Philips's lighting division is working on a product that allows people with psoriasis to have light treatments at home, not in the hospital. It has also introduced a blue-light-emitting poultice to relieve muscle pain by releasing the nitric oxide in the patient's system, stimulating blood flow.


"This is where the promise is," said Dr. Siminovitch of the U.C. Davis center. "The promise is going to be on well-being, wellness, biology - lighting starts doing something for us that is inherently different."


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/business/energy-environment/new-technology-inspires-a-rethinking-of-light.xml?f=23

[scott]

The Free Market is innovating to fill the market for energy-efficient bulbs? You don't say?

[boutons_deux]

The Free Market is innovating to fill the market for energy-efficient bulbs? You don't say?

the free market was pushed by the Fed reg to phase out incandescents.

[Wild Cobra]

the free market was pushed by the Fed reg to phase out incandescents.
It wasn't pushed to LED technology. That's a consumer decision, and I'm one of them who will gladly pay for LEDs.

You may need your Uncle Sam to tell you how to live, but I don't.

[Drachen]

It wasn't pushed to LED technology. That's a consumer decision, and I'm one of them who will gladly pay for LEDs.

You may need your Uncle Sam to tell you how to live, but I don't.

I'm guessing that you should try getting your Uncle Sam to read to you since his post made no mention of this.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm guessing that you should try getting your Uncle Sam to read to you since his post made no mention of this.
Just follow what was said.

LED... Energy Efficient... then the claim it was pushed by the government...

Some of us were buying energy efficient stuff before any phase out of the incandescent, however, ShazBot seems to think government is the answer... apparently for everything, by all his various posts.

[Wild Cobra]

Thanks for that extra link. I'll take a chance of it not being a scam. I just backed them with $50.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/nanolightbacker_zpsf639ffe1.jpg
Well...

I wonder how much the 100 watt equivalents will cost when they make it to market. The $50 in the title might be correct. At least it if for the one I'm buying.

[Th'Pusher]

It wasn't pushed to LED technology. That's a consumer decision, and I'm one of them who will gladly pay for LEDs.

You may need your Uncle Sam to tell you how to live, but I don't.

You're right. The fed did not pick LED as the winner. The market figured that out after the fed decided that incandescent lighting needed to pay for the externalities that were not previously being calculated into the cost of production. Once taken into account, free market innovation was spurred. God bless the fed, god bless capitalism.

[CosmicCowboy]

Iv'e literally payed 100's of $$ to switch my house over to LED and love it. I've got dozens of BR30 spots/floods and those incandescent fuckers were constantly burning out. The florescent replacements sucked and didn't work half the time. The LED's were like $15 but they throw a great white light and are good for tens of thousands of hours.

[DarrinS]

They are down to $10-$15 range and are available in warmer colors. Glad I wasn't an early adopter.

[DarrinS]

I am waiting for a good commercial projector that has LED.

[LnGrrrR]

They are down to $10-$15 range and are available in warmer colors. Glad I wasn't an early adopter.

This, frankly, astounds me. Who ever heard of technology getting CHEAPER with age? Amirite?

[Th'Pusher]

They are down to $10-$15 range and are available in warmer colors. Glad I wasn't an early adopter.

What happened to your stockpile of incandescent bulbs you went out and bought after shitting your pants and creating this thread.

[DarrinS]

What happened to your stockpile of incandescent bulbs you went out and bought after shitting your pants and creating this thread.

When I burn through those, I'll get me some LED bulbs. They'll probably be $5 by then.

And if they didn't start producing the warm color variety, I would never be interested.

[DarrinS]

This, frankly, astounds me. Who ever heard of technology getting CHEAPER with age? Amirite?

The free market is a beautiful thing.

[ChumpDumper]

lol @ Darrin's attempt at revisionist history

[LnGrrrR]

The free market is a beautiful thing.

So you are saying the govt should mandate more regulations and standards? After all, the free market wasnt doing much until the govt stepped in. Good to know. :tu

[Wild Cobra]

So you are saying the govt should mandate more regulations and standards? After all, the free market wasnt doing much until the govt stepped in. Good to know. :tu
Yes it was. CFL's were already available and being bought by the public. I was one of them. Maybe for people who are followers, waiting for the media to do what it tells you is right... maybe for people who wait for regulation to run (or is it ruin) their lives. As for LED lighting... I think regulations played no difference there either.

[boutons_deux]

WC fancies himself as a LEADER! :lol

[Wild Cobra]

WC fancies himself as a LEADER! :lol

I understand how that concept must be alien to you. It's called "Lead by Example." Do you think half these people making these regulations do as they want everyone else to before they craft the legislation?

I have been using CFL's for years. Replaced about half of them now as they went bad. I have three incandescents in my place. One is a IR heat lamp in my daughters snake terrarium, one is in the fridge, and one is in the range. The rest are CFL's or LED.

[boutons_deux]

WC fancies himself as a LEADER! :lol

[Wild Cobra]

WC fancies himself as a LEADER! :lol



Yep.

Definitely an alien concept to you.

[CosmicCowboy]

Man, I freaking love these LED's. I have a huge amount of lightly whitewashed and sealed natural wood in my house...baseboards, doors, door trims, cabinets, all the ceilings...I am changing in the LED's as other bulbs burn out. I'm changing bulbs this afternoon...I have one secondary living/TV room that currently has all three styles of bulbs in it...incandescent, flourescent, and LED. Th incandescents makes the wood look pinkish...The flourescents (curlyQBR30's) make the wood look babyshit yellow...The LED's are a true white light and the wood looks exactly like it is supposed to...warm and natural..

[Wild Cobra]

I love the LED lighting as well. I hope the people I gave $50 to, end up with a good product. I will be disappointing if they fail, but I know my money is at risk, and hope they have a good product, and that they get rich.

[LnGrrrR]

I love the LED lighting as well. I hope the people I gave $50 to, end up with a good product. I will be disappointing if they fail, but I know my money is at risk, and hope they have a good product, and that they get rich.

Crossing my fingers for you WC. I saw that kickstarter, pretty sweet.

[Wild Cobra]

Crossing my fingers for you WC. I saw that kickstarter, pretty sweet.
Thanx.

I'm only slightly optimistic. technology moves fast, and someone else might market a better product before them, making them fail. Not for effort though.

Still...

If someone makes a more cost effective LED at the 1700+ lumen range.... SWEET!

[Wild Cobra]

And that 950 lumen 60 watt equivalent LED I bought on 7/10/11 is still burning strong with a 4900K color. I do prefer ~5700K though.

LOL...

It's brighter than the 75 watt equivalent CFL next to it.

[BobaFett1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdeTRD-AaLs
WC fancies himself as a LEADER! :lol




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdeTRD-AaLs

[coyotes_geek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdeTRD-AaLs


Since I don't speak French, that video was nothing more than a bunch of incoherent ramblings by juveniles. IOW, a perfect reprensentation of boutons.

[Wild Cobra]

Since I donated $50 to the effort, I received an email with a video. It is also on YouTube.

email link: NanoLeaf LED manufacturing process. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/453858?)

Youtube:

eGqKcVrGIic

If interested, there are more YouTube links. just search "nanoleaf."

[RandomGuy]

The Free Market is innovating to fill the market for energy-efficient bulbs? You don't say?

What do you make of Laffer's pushing of a carbon tax?

[Wild Cobra]

I received another update for the nanolight.

link: Finish line is near!; Update #9 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/484497)

[Wild Cobra]

Nanoleaf Project Update #10:

link: NanoLeaf bulbs are shipping out!
Update #10 · Jun 23, 2013 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/518156?ref=email&show_token=a08a34514ece593b)


Project Update #10: NanoLeaf bulbs are shipping out!
Posted by Gimmy Chu, Tom Rodinger, Christian Yan Like

Hi Backers,

After several months of hard work, we're proud to announce that we have shipped out our very first KickStarter reward! We will be shipping out orders non-stop for the next few days to get our first set of NanoLeaf bulbs on their way to their new owners.
Shipping

The NanoLeaf bulbs will be travelling via Swiss Post. To make tracking your reward easier, we are setting up a system that will email you an automated email with the tracking number of your NanoLeaf package upon shipment.

Once the orders are shipped out, if there are any issues with the delivery, we would recommend you first try contacting Swiss Post directly. If it is something beyond their control, simply send us a message via KickStarter and we would be happy to help.
Packaging

The NanoLeaf bulbs will be delivered to you in our eco-friendly packaging. To facilitate easy recognition of what's in the box, 3 colors are used on the packaging to denote the 3 different models of bulbs (from least brightest to brightest, the colors are blue, green, and yellow). A window is cut in the box so that you can see the actual light bulb. To distinguish the voltage version of the bulb, the appropriate voltage will be checked on the printed checkbox on the packaging.

When your NanoLeaf bulb arrives, please double check that you have received the correct voltage and design as per your order. Although plugging a 220V version into a 120V socket will not hurt the bulb, the brightness will not reach the optimum level. On the other hand, plugging a 120V version into 220V socket will quickly end the life of the bulb (we have tried this). Do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any problems with your order.
Free Swag!

Inside each of the NanoLeaf bulb box, you will discover 2 NanoLeaf stickers. Feel free to represent your NanoLeaf pride!
Photo Contest

We haven't forgotten about the contest that we announced in an earlier update. We are printing a reminder about it onto the NanoLeaf packaging box. Contest winners will receive prizes in the form of free NanoLeaf bulbs and other goodies!

To enter the contest, all you need to do is take a photo of your NanoLeaf light bulb in its new home. There are two ways to enter the contest:

1) You can follow us on Twitter, then tweet up to 5 unique and original photos using #mynanoleaf, and tag us @theNanoLeaf.

2) You can 'Like us' on Facebook, then upload it onto your Facebook page and tag us in the photo .

We also accept drawings / paintings / artworks that depict the NanoLeaf bulb in some interesting/creative way.

The contest details will be posted on our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/theNanoLeaf, and our website: http://thenanoleaf.com. We will send out a Kickstarter update notifying you once we do.

An example of the type of picture we are looking for:
Warning Label

We have put a lot of work into ensuring that the NanoLeaf light bulb is safe to use. However, we strongly urge everyone to read the warning before operating the NanoLeaf bulb. We have printed all the relevant warnings onto the box itself in an amusing and entertaining way. PLEASE READ IT before connecting your new light bulb. Thanks in advance for taking safety very seriously.
July Batch of NanoLeaf Rewards

We have started the production of our next batch of bulbs! We'll be sending out the surveys for the July batch in the next few weeks. Please make sure to return your survey as soon as possible upon receiving it.

Thank you all for your patience and support, we couldn't have done it without you. And we've included some photos for your enjoyment. :)

Until next time, live green Kickstarters!

The NanoLeaf Team

www.theNanoLeaf.com - Additional pre-orders available!

Follow us on Twitter - @theNanoLeaf

Like us on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theNanoLeaf

[DMX7]

This thread is a standing monument to Darrin's stupidity.

[AntiChrist]

This thread is a standing monument to Darrin's stupidity.

Maybe, but he's still smarter than you.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe, but he's still smarter than you.It's not smart to out your own troll.

[coyotes_geek]

This thread is a standing monument to Darrin's stupidity.
Maybe, but he's still smarter than you.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217728&p=6681845#post6681845


Wish mods could fix my DarrinS acct, so I could quit using this troll.

:wakeup

[Winehole23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202370&p=6078640&viewfull=1#post6078640

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[Drachen]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217728&p=6681845#post6681845



:wakeup

He outed his troll a long time ago when we were discussing the thread that angel luv hijacked with her Obama antichrist junk. He did so freely and not on accident.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, but using that account to defend himself in the third person is got damn hilarious.

[Big Empty]

hmmm, may be a good idea to invest in some of these companies that make these bulbs as a long term investment

[Drachen]

Sure, but using that account to defend himself in the third person is got damn hilarious.

Ah, I see. Awesome.

[Big Empty]

Led bulbs only make up 1% of house holds! crazy.


Cree (NASDAQ: CREE (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/CREE.aspx)) is a market leading innovator of lighting-class LEDs, LED lighting, and semiconductor solutions for wireless and power applications. In the first quarter of fiscal year 2013, the company’s revenues increased 17% year-on-year to a record $316 million. Its quarterly net income also increased 26% year-on-year to $16.1 million. The stock was trading around $25 during that time, but this phenomenal performance led to a sudden bull run.
Similar appreciation took place when the second quarter results of fiscal year 2013 were announced in January. These results were even more phenomenal with an increase of 14% in revenues over last year to $346 million and an increase of 69% in net income to $20.4 million. The stock has given a return of more than 100% since October 2012. But the stock has now reached a level where it can considered overvalued. Still, there is a reason for the investors to hold on to the stock: the expected boom in the world LED lighting market.
LED lighting market
According to McKinsey, the LED market will grow (http://www.fidelity.mobi/fiw/GetNewsDetail;jsessionid=0000K3CLIB9R35eMgrx4D3kZ6 Y_:-1?__JWTS__=1&f_symbol=LGEAF&action=detail&STORYID=%7E201212071240RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_L5E8N79HN_ 1&PROVIDER=RTRSNEWS&PRODUCT=Reuters&pageoff=0&CUR_STORYID=&cur_action=) seven-fold to almost 65 billion euros by 2020, accounting for the bulk of global demand for lighting. It expects the market for replacement bulbs to reach its peak next year and then slow as LED bulbs lasts significantly longer than the other types of lamps.
According to Greg Sebasky, CEO of Philips’ North American unit, the market is expected (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-04/led-lighting-to-grow-40-in-2013-philips-executive-says.html) to grow by 40 percent in 2013. Currently the LED bulbs account for only 1% of the total 5.6 billion bulbs used in residential homes. But they are expected to replace at least half of the world’s fluorescent bulbs in ten years. Though the costs of LED bulbs are much higher, they have been gaining acceptability because they are eighty percent more efficient and can last for over a decade.
Companies like Cree, Philips, Osram etc. have been trying to bring the cost down and their efforts have recently shown some results. Metal organic chemical vapor deposition (MOCVD) technology is expected to drive down the cost of LEDs and help spread LED technology into applications such as backlighting and general lighting.
Cree’s LED innovations
The company has announced a series of LED light bulbs that start at just $10. This gives consumers a reason to switch to LED lighting. These bulbs shine almost as brightly as the comparable incandescent bulbs, while saving 84 percent of the energy. The light throwing pattern is also homogeneous. They can be dimmed, placed upside down, don’t contain mercury, and are far more efficient than many incandescent. It has recently announced the next performance upgrade as well. Select versions of this new series will provide up to 20 percent additional energy savings and increased lumen output as compared to 15 percent in other versions. Cree currently holds 7.7% of the total LED market share, but this is expected to rise in the next few years.
Chinese LED lighting market is expected to grow with a CAGR of 49%. Therefore Cree has expanded its manufacturing facilities in China over the years to make use of this opportunity. Cree acquired Rudd Lighting, one of the pioneers in LED lighting, in August 2011. This will further increase the company’s product range to both indoor and outdoor lighting and therefore will help it in capturing more market share.
Competitors
Philips (NYSE: PHG (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/PHG.aspx)) has been emerging as a major competitor for Cree in the LED segment over the last few years. It recently announced (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goodbye-fluorescent-bulb-philips-says-112843502.html) that it has developed an LED tube-light that will be more efficient than the best fluorescents in the market. The company describes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22106718) it as the ‘world’s most energy-efficient LED light.’ The prototype is expected to hit the market by 2015. Philips has also made LED bulbs whose brightness and color can be controlled from a smartphone application. Though Philips is a much diversified company, its lighting business can impact Cree’s revenue in the time to come.
Microchip Technology (NASDAQ: MCHP (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/MCHP.aspx)) manufactures specialized semiconductor products for a range of embedded control applications. Its forward P/E multiple is relatively low compared to its industry peers. Its stock has been in an upward trend since December last year. The company’s debt is on the higher side, but its dividend payout ratio is phenomenal

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, I see. Awesome.I do it all the time tbh.

[coyotes_geek]

He outed his troll a long time ago when we were discussing the thread that angel luv hijacked with her Obama antichrist junk. He did so freely and not on accident.

What Chump said.

[AntiChrist]

Sure, but using that account to defend himself in the third person is got damn hilarious.


But that doesn't make it any less true.

[AntiChrist]

And I would stop using this troll account if any mod would fix my normal account. Had to change my email address on my profile. Since that day, I haven't been able to post.

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202370&p=6078640&viewfull=1#post6078640
Wow...

Your really are a great Spur Stalker...

Always having people's posts archived for future use. You must have quite the database on all of us...

[TeyshaBlue]

lol. Using the thread subscription is not amassing a database on users. smh.

[RandomGuy]

Led bulbs only make up 1% of house holds! crazy.


Cree (NASDAQ: CREE (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/CREE.aspx)) is a market leading innovator of lighting-class LEDs, LED lighting, and semiconductor solutions for wireless and power applications. In the first quarter of fiscal year 2013, the company’s revenues increased 17% year-on-year to a record $316 million. Its quarterly net income also increased 26% year-on-year to $16.1 million. The stock was trading around $25 during that time, but this phenomenal performance led to a sudden bull run.
Similar appreciation took place when the second quarter results of fiscal year 2013 were announced in January. These results were even more phenomenal with an increase of 14% in revenues over last year to $346 million and an increase of 69% in net income to $20.4 million. The stock has given a return of more than 100% since October 2012. But the stock has now reached a level where it can considered overvalued. Still, there is a reason for the investors to hold on to the stock: the expected boom in the world LED lighting market.
LED lighting market
According to McKinsey, the LED market will grow (http://www.fidelity.mobi/fiw/GetNewsDetail;jsessionid=0000K3CLIB9R35eMgrx4D3kZ6 Y_:-1?__JWTS__=1&f_symbol=LGEAF&action=detail&STORYID=%7E201212071240RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_L5E8N79HN_ 1&PROVIDER=RTRSNEWS&PRODUCT=Reuters&pageoff=0&CUR_STORYID=&cur_action=) seven-fold to almost 65 billion euros by 2020, accounting for the bulk of global demand for lighting. It expects the market for replacement bulbs to reach its peak next year and then slow as LED bulbs lasts significantly longer than the other types of lamps.
According to Greg Sebasky, CEO of Philips’ North American unit, the market is expected (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-04/led-lighting-to-grow-40-in-2013-philips-executive-says.html) to grow by 40 percent in 2013. Currently the LED bulbs account for only 1% of the total 5.6 billion bulbs used in residential homes. But they are expected to replace at least half of the world’s fluorescent bulbs in ten years. Though the costs of LED bulbs are much higher, they have been gaining acceptability because they are eighty percent more efficient and can last for over a decade.
Companies like Cree, Philips, Osram etc. have been trying to bring the cost down and their efforts have recently shown some results. Metal organic chemical vapor deposition (MOCVD) technology is expected to drive down the cost of LEDs and help spread LED technology into applications such as backlighting and general lighting.
Cree’s LED innovations
The company has announced a series of LED light bulbs that start at just $10. This gives consumers a reason to switch to LED lighting. These bulbs shine almost as brightly as the comparable incandescent bulbs, while saving 84 percent of the energy. The light throwing pattern is also homogeneous. They can be dimmed, placed upside down, don’t contain mercury, and are far more efficient than many incandescent. It has recently announced the next performance upgrade as well. Select versions of this new series will provide up to 20 percent additional energy savings and increased lumen output as compared to 15 percent in other versions. Cree currently holds 7.7% of the total LED market share, but this is expected to rise in the next few years.
Chinese LED lighting market is expected to grow with a CAGR of 49%. Therefore Cree has expanded its manufacturing facilities in China over the years to make use of this opportunity. Cree acquired Rudd Lighting, one of the pioneers in LED lighting, in August 2011. This will further increase the company’s product range to both indoor and outdoor lighting and therefore will help it in capturing more market share.
Competitors
Philips (NYSE: PHG (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/PHG.aspx)) has been emerging as a major competitor for Cree in the LED segment over the last few years. It recently announced (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goodbye-fluorescent-bulb-philips-says-112843502.html) that it has developed an LED tube-light that will be more efficient than the best fluorescents in the market. The company describes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22106718) it as the ‘world’s most energy-efficient LED light.’ The prototype is expected to hit the market by 2015. Philips has also made LED bulbs whose brightness and color can be controlled from a smartphone application. Though Philips is a much diversified company, its lighting business can impact Cree’s revenue in the time to come.
Microchip Technology (NASDAQ: MCHP (http://caps.fool.com/Ticker/MCHP.aspx)) manufactures specialized semiconductor products for a range of embedded control applications. Its forward P/E multiple is relatively low compared to its industry peers. Its stock has been in an upward trend since December last year. The company’s debt is on the higher side, but its dividend payout ratio is phenomenal

Looks like the technology is maturing.

With a little help from the government. Oh yeah, I went there.

[Winehole23]

Wow...

Your really are a great Spur Stalker...

Always having people's posts archived for future use. You must have quite the database on all of us...the database is ST. the search function is my friend and yours.

[Winehole23]

also, I have a pretty good memory. silly shit sticks.

[Wild Cobra]

also, I have a pretty good memory. silly shit sticks.

I find it an odd trait to do that to others.

[ChumpDumper]

I find it an odd trait to do that to others.You're the one who made flaglot a verb.

[Wild Cobra]

WH.

Even though you are one of my several antagonists here, I consider you one of the few intelligent people here.

What do you think of the Nanolight I have mentioned, or have you not looked into it?

[Winehole23]

I find it an odd trait to do that to others.to remind them of what they said in a public forum? how so?

[Winehole23]

What do you think of the Nanolight I have mentioned, or have you not looked into it?looks like the makers will get a shot. I wish em the best.

[Wild Cobra]

Nanolight Update #12

Link embedded in pic:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/395763/posts/614838/image-335738-full.jpg?1380615474 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/614838)

[Wild Cobra]

Nanoleaf update #14, embedded in pic:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/471/762/87f0480ccdc91b89346e4ae2e5cdd121_large.jpg?1387936 977 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/704225)

[Wild Cobra]

---duplicate---

[xrayzebra]

Nanoleaf update #14, embedded in pic:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/471/762/87f0480ccdc91b89346e4ae2e5cdd121_large.jpg?1387936 977 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/704225)

From reading the comments WC, it seems that folks are having some real problems with the nano bulbs. I have found the same problem with the CFL bulbs. Burn out in a short amount of time, like two weeks in one bunch I bought to put in outside fixtures.

Another problem I find with LED's is what is described as ghost light. There is light, but you have a hard time reading by it. I bought an LED for my computer, to see keyboard at night, and for reading some things, like check register, during the day and you can forget it.

But big brother knows best.

[Wild Cobra]

In one of the previous updates, they acknowledged bad bulbs were shipped. You have to remember, this is a start up and new development. there are usually unforeseen glitches. they have had a few. I was suppose to get my bulb by now, but haven't, the option I selected had an estimated September timeframe.

I wish these guys luck. Think about the comments. They are of bulbs already receive, when in this update 2 days ago.

I can only wait and see when I get mine... if I do... I hope they don't go under.

Some of the comments are pretty stupid. These are not guaranteed successes through Kickstart.


Larry Bradley about 20 hours ago

How much longer should we wait to receive our bulb before we start reporting this as a scam and a fraud?

What a fucking idiot.

[boutons_deux]

an extremely competitive area, supported by very deep pockets

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-17889_7-10019186-1.html

[xrayzebra]

Interesting read on the Phillips LED bulb. I think I will hold off on purchasing any LED's until more work is done on them. I sometimes wonder what the next step will be.

Wonder if anyone still has a natural gas lamp in their front yard.......

[Wild Cobra]

Interesting read on the Phillips LED bulb. I think I will hold off on purchasing any LED's until more work is done on them. I sometimes wonder what the next step will be.

Wonder if anyone still has a natural gas lamp in their front yard.......
I know one house that does.

[boutons_deux]

Like guns, these LED lights don't need replacement, last many years, decades.

So like gun mfrs, LED light mfrs can only profit long term by selling multiple lights per customer ( avg gun owner has 9 guns, home defense! 2nd Amendment! small dick! ), but after your house is fully LED-lighted, then what for the mfrs?

[Wild Cobra]

Like guns, these LED lights don't need replacement, last many years, decades.

So like gun mfrs, LED light mfrs can only profit long term by selling multiple lights per customer ( avg gun owner has 9 guns, home defense! 2nd Amendment! small dick! ), but after your house is fully LED-lighted, then what for the mfrs?
You speak too often of things you don't understand.

LED lights will not last forever. Some will last longer than others. Places with glitchy power, or where rolling brownouts are normal will dramatically reduce the life if these bulbs like they do CFL's and filament types.

[xrayzebra]

WC, other than the things you mentioned, any manufacture worth his salt will find a way to sell more product. New housing alone will keep some of them busy beavers. And style, upgrades, whatever. And the so called long life, well I will take that with a grain of salt, if you don't mind. CFL's are suppose to be long life. But I haven't found any, that used on a regular basis, that last that much longer than an incandescent.

I remember many years ago, transistors were going to last a lifetime because no heat. Telling my age. But then I will tell you they don't and I can also tell you a power surge (like a lightening strike) will have techs replacing them by the tube full. Electronics will always be electronics and these low voltage gee whizzes are just that, low voltage. I remember when we were prepared for Pope John visit and we took a lightening strike the night before, wiped out half our base station, including our FAX. Techs were busy beavers, but we were up and running for his visit.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, other than the things you mentioned, any manufacture worth his salt will find a way to sell more product. New housing alone will keep some of them busy beavers. And style, upgrades, whatever. And the so called long life, well I will take that with a grain of salt, if you don't mind. CFL's are suppose to be long life. But I haven't found any, that used on a regular basis, that last that much longer than an incandescent.

I never marked a calender, but the Feit CFL's I bought seem to last about 3 times longer. However, they dim a little before failing. I agree, all other brands I tried didn't last real long, except for the few Phillips I tried.




I remember many years ago, transistors were going to last a lifetime because no heat. Telling my age.
That's OK. My first TV's and radios used tubes, no transistors. When I got a 9 transistor radio that you could hold in your hand, that was amazing!



But then I will tell you they don't and I can also tell you a power surge (like a lightening strike) will have techs replacing them by the tube full. Electronics will always be electronics and these low voltage gee whizzes are just that, low voltage. I remember when we were prepared for Pope John visit and we took a lightening strike the night before, wiped out half our base station, including our FAX. Techs were busy beavers, but we were up and running for his visit.

Yep. Tungsten hold up the best with power surges, CFL's aren't as forgiving, and I could see a power surge taking out all LED lamps that are on at the time.

[boutons_deux]

Best-in-Class LED From SWITCH Infinia Now Available Nationwide

SWITCH Lighting has just announced nationwide (US) availability of the award-winning SWITCH infinia (http://www.switchlightingco.com/infinia/), “the top-performing LED bulb in the general use category for residential and commercial applications.”There are 40-watt and 60-watt equivalents of the SWITCH infinia, and the 60We is sold for as low as $11.99, but they can get down to $3.99 with utility rebates (http://www.switchlightingco.com/rebate.html).

These LED bulbs are so good that SWITCH sells them with a lifetime residential warranty (3-year commercial warranty).

“The bulbs can be found at commercial distributors, lighting showrooms, and numerous retailers, including nearly 500 Batteries Plus Bulbs stores nationwide,” a news release about the nationwide availability states.

The newest bulb from SWITCH is the best performing, lowest priced 60W equivalent LED bulb and carries both ENERGY STAR certification and a UL rating for enclosed fixtures….
The infinia can be used in any fixture (UL rated for enclosed fixtures), any orientation, and both indoors and out. The bulb provides the same light distribution and quality as an incandescent bulb, while using up to 85 percent less energy, offers a wide range of dimmability, and the technology extends the lifetime….

SWITCH infinia uses the company’s patented LQD Cooling System (http://switchlightingco.com/lqd.html)™ – the most innovative and effective thermal management system on the market today. The LQD Cooling System utilizes a coolant made of liquid silicone, and a highly efficient and reliable electronic driver. SWITCH is up to 40% more effective at cooling LEDs than typical air-cooled LED bulbs.

The infinia was also selected as a 2014 CES Innovations Design and Engineering Awards (http://cesweb.org/Events-Awards/Innovations) honoree in the Eco Design & Sustainable Technologies product category. The infinia was recently named a winner by Lighting for Tomorrow (http://www.lightingfortomorrow.com/), one of the most prestigious awards in the lighting industry. Lighting for Tomorrow is a design competition that recognizes energy efficient decorative lighting products and technologies on the market.


http://cleantechnica.com/2014/01/08/best-class-led-switch-infinia-now-available-nationwide/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

Fox and Repug and right wingers whining about "mandatory" and $50 bulbs is, as always, hilariously stupid, and perennially bad faith.

[Winehole23]

the gripe about privacy and constitutional rights is veracious, but agreed, this is bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

what constitiutional rights are being violated?

What about other federal "impositions" on FREEDOM!, like federally mandated average mpg for a car mfr's fleet, etc, etc, etc?

[Winehole23]

pales in comparison to the wholesale abrogation of the 4th Amendment.

[Winehole23]

Other energy riders in the omnibus bill include a ban on the administration's light bulb efficiency standard. Manufacturers have already started phasing in the 2007 ban on bulbs that don't meet energy efficiency standards in 2012.But Republicans have long opposed the standards, calling (http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/energy-environment/194908-gop-takes-one-last-shot-at-repealing-light-bulb-ban) it an example of a nanny state.


Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/195330-omnibus-spending-bill-blocks-key-obama-energy-regulations#ixzz2qOGdduMS

[boutons_deux]

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/195330-omnibus-spending-bill-blocks-key-obama-energy-regulations#ixzz2qOGdduMS




more astonishing Repug politicians' decency, also rampant among their voters.

[Winehole23]

the intent is clear enough, boutons, but syntactically it's a bit of a kludge, hmm?

and your idiom is just weird, man

[boutons_deux]

the intent is clear enough, boutons, but syntactically it's a bit of a kludge, hmm?

and your idiom is just weird, man

elliptical for brevity

[RandomGuy]

From reading the comments WC, it seems that folks are having some real problems with the nano bulbs. I have found the same problem with the CFL bulbs. Burn out in a short amount of time, like two weeks in one bunch I bought to put in outside fixtures.

Another problem I find with LED's is what is described as ghost light. There is light, but you have a hard time reading by it. I bought an LED for my computer, to see keyboard at night, and for reading some things, like check register, during the day and you can forget it.

But big brother knows best.

Holy shit, ray, how you been man?

[boutons_deux]

an article from the Confederacy to warm all the Johnny Rebels' hearts

Congress to bar enforcement of light-bulb phaseout
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/usatoday/article/4476103

[Winehole23]

elliptical for brevityno doubt. sometimes you elide the plain sense of what you're saying.

[Winehole23]

Holy shit, ray, how you been man?that was essentially my reaction last time I saw an XRZ post.

I got nowhere with that.:lol

[Winehole23]

elliptical for brevitytrue. mercifully for us all, your entries are usually brief.

[ElNono]

an extremely competitive area, supported by very deep pockets

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-17889_7-10019186-1.html

Is it $50 yet?

[boutons_deux]

true. mercifully for us all, your entries are usually brief.

so now, oh self-annointed one, you speak "for us all". This forum would be for shit if it weren't for The Great Boutons :lol

[Winehole23]

fart smeller. yours obviously doesn't stink.

[Winehole23]

lol @ Darrin's attempt at revisionist historyking of the pride (free market) claiming the kill, after regulation killed it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey the clown that had his whole roof with solar panels last year

how much was ur system and kw system in place?

how much kw does it produce per day?
will a days charge be enough to keep air-con 24hrs operating without gettin charge by electricity supplier?

[Wild Cobra]

Update #15, link in pic:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/575/922/0d3de89aab654f6319fec0ede0072a23_large.jpg?1391008 780 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619878070/nanolight-the-worlds-most-energy-efficient-lightbu/posts/731476)