Pacers have traded this pick to the Spurs for George Hill sources say

[SenorSpur]

Personally, I think there is even more urgency to get rid of RJ now. Besides the obvious pre-draft reasons, I believe it even more important now that Leonard is on board. Getting RJ out of the way would clear the path for Leonard to find quickly find his own niche with this team and to be free of RJ's shadow.

[SenorSpur]

I don't know that it was Tony specifically that was shopped as much as the Tony/RJ combo... if they did want Tony moved, they had a few offers they could've pulled the trigger on.

From everything I read, the Spurs attached RJ on the back end of all incoming trade proposals made for Parker. I'm sure that ended all discussions at that point. Those rival GMs probably couldn't hang up the phone fast enough.

[ChumpDumper]

Personally, I think there is even more urgency to get rid of RJ now. Besides the obvious pre-draft reasons, I believe it even more important now that Leonard is on board. Getting RJ out of the way would clear the path for Leonard to find quickly find his own niche with this team and to be free of RJ's shadow.Eh, if he's better than RJ, he's better. It's not like RJ hasn't been benched before.

[Mel_13]

So yall think the Parker rumors were all a smokescreen? :lol

You believe they were all true. :lol

I seem to remember last summer that an entire legion of posters were certain that Tony wouldn't sign an extension based on a different set of rumors.

[Spurs Brazil]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/nba/teamsites/release/spurs/sites/spurs/files/imagecache/local_image_gallery_default/_31D9436.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

How can the spurs be better off next year with the trade of George Hill? If Hill was the best perimeter defender, then the Spurs have NO perimeter defenders next season. Kawhi Leonard will get NO respect from officials and probably won't play much under Popovich. 2012/13 will probably be the year the Spurs feel the positive impact of this trade along with the development of Bertrans.

He wasn't. He was a small version of Michael Finley with longer arms. Finley was a great defender when he was Hill's age.

[Obstructed_View]

Isn't that Jaren Jackson's number?

[silverblk mystix]

He wasn't. He was a small version of Michael Finley with longer arms. Finley was a great defender when he was Hill's age.

Finley was NEVER a great defender.

[Obstructed_View]

Finley was NEVER a great defender.

Then you never saw him in Phoenix.

[Obstructed_View]

But if I concede your point that he was never a great defender, the comparison to George Hill is still relevant, because Hill never turned into the defender we hoped he'd be. He probably led the team in defensive lapses.

[Solid D]

Isn't that Jaren Jackson's number?

yes...and Moses Malone's #. Rebounding machine.

[Borosai]

Personally, I think there is even more urgency to get rid of RJ now. Besides the obvious pre-draft reasons, I believe it even more important now that Leonard is on board. Getting RJ out of the way would clear the path for Leonard to find quickly find his own niche with this team and to be free of RJ's shadow.

At this point I can't imagine Jefferson starting again. The Spurs don't want him. He knows it. Even yellow dog knows it. His role will be reduced if he can't be dumped. Guaranteed opinion.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Personally, I think there is even more urgency to get rid of RJ now. Besides the obvious pre-draft reasons, I believe it even more important now that Leonard is on board. Getting RJ out of the way would clear the path for Leonard to find quickly find his own niche with this team and to be free of RJ's shadow.

I don't see why trading one of two legitimate 3s on the roster is a necessity.

If it can free up some room for a big then sure but absent that meh to the at all costs thing.

[Spurs Brazil]

No. 2

Linton Townes 1985

Reggie Williams 1990

Larry Smith 1992-93

Moses Malone 1994

Jaren Jackson 1997-2001

Mark Bryant 2001-02

Nazr Mohammed 2005-06

Melvin Ely 2007

Marcus Williams 2009

Garrett Temple 2010

No. 5

Billy Paultz 1975-80, 1983

Donald Royal 1991-92

Sam Mack 1992-93

Dell Demps 1995-96

Derrick Dial 2000-01

Charles Smith 2001-02

Anthony Goldwire 2002

Robert Horry 2003-08

Ime Udoka 2007-09, 2010-11

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/06/25/joseph-leonard-have-big-shoes-to-fill-with-their-new-spurs-uniform-numbers/

[rascal]

Their 'best young asset' wasn't that good to begin with. He was serviceable as a backup, and that about sums it up. There's other not-best, but pretty-good-and-still-serviceable players that can fill that role. On the other hand, the Spurs have had a huge hole at SF since Bowen retired, and still do. So it makes total sense to try to shore up that position.

BTW, it's June. There's plenty of time for other moves.



He could have but the Spurs would've had to make a serious monetary commitment to him after 11-12, or let him walk... which is not what you want to do if you're going to be rebuilding.

Hill is good it's just that the spurs did not use him right. He should not have been playing pg. Hill will be a star in Indiana as a sg. He will get starters minutes and play mostly at the 2 and watch him take off into a much better player than what he would have been on San Antonio.

[DPG21920]

Actually, it does help the Spurs should they decide to blow it up. They won't be forced to have to match a stupid money offer for Hill while fetching cheap contracts (what you want to have in a rebuilding team) in exchange for it.

This move gives them more financial flexibility going forward. Hate to say it, but this might have been accelerated because of RJ's stupid and untradeable contract.

Which is why I said (and Chump doesn't agree) that the move was more financial than any thing else it appears.

[Gagnrath]

This move was good from a basketball standpoint as well as from a financial one. Manu starting as SG, Neal as back-up, and Anderson as fill in minutes is good. It takes the SF position from RJ starting, Anderson as back-up and Manu and Neal filling in on small ball to a battle for Starting between RJ and Leonard, with the other playing back-up and Anderson doing fill in work.

Personally I think Anderson is better suited to playing at 2 than 3 in the NBA though depending on teams and match-ups he could get minutes at either. Having Manu not playing SF at all is good since he gets beat up in those match-ups. It weakens PG back-up a little but not much since Hill wasn't really suited to that position. I see a back-up point guard coming in via free agency, The spurs also brought in a late last year who was a SF/SG tweener who's name I forget right now good college career major knee injury in the NCAA tourney. I don't know what this does for him.

[ElNono]

Hill is good it's just that the spurs did not use him right. He should not have been playing pg. Hill will be a star in Indiana as a sg. He will get starters minutes and play mostly at the 2 and watch him take off into a much better player than what he would have been on San Antonio.

It's possible that he'll flourish in his natural position. That said, he still has a lot to learn in a few departments, like footwork, basketball IQ, etc. He's young, and with a larger role it's possible he'll turn into a better player than he is today. I don't know about star (ie: Derrick Rose All-Star type). He should be serviceable though. At this stage, he wasn't as good as Tony or Manu, thus his role in the Spurs was what the team needed.

[Leetonidas]

Hill is good it's just that the spurs did not use him right. He should not have been playing pg. Hill will be a star in Indiana as a sg. He will get starters minutes and play mostly at the 2 and watch him take off into a much better player than what he would have been on San Antonio.

I didn't realize dribbling the ball up the court and handing it off to Manu to set up the offense or standing around and dribbling for 20 seconds then careening into the lane was playing PG

[Mel_13]

Hill is good it's just that the spurs did not use him right. He should not have been playing pg. Hill will be a star in Indiana as a sg. He will get starters minutes and play mostly at the 2 and watch him take off into a much better player than what he would have been on San Antonio.

:lol

You should stick to "trade Manu" posts.

[Mel_13]

Which is why I said (and Chump doesn't agree) that the move was more financial than any thing else it appears.

It's a chicken and egg sort of thing. Once they concluded that George couldn't replace Tony, the financial factor became more important and they moved him for future assets.

Had they concluded that George could replace Tony, they could have moved Tony and paid George.

Paying both really wasn't an option.

[ogait]

The basketball value of this move is yet to be determined.

Basically everyone defending it bases their arguments on the assumption that Leonard becomes a permanent contribute for the team in his first year, or even more unlikely that he will be the starting small forward. None of those are guaranteed particularly with RJ on the team.

Even more unlikely is that George Hill contribution for the team can be replicated by Garry Neal and James Anderson.

Hill was never a pg, he wasn't a pg before coming to the NBA and he never played as a real pg on the Spurs. But the Spurs also didn't have no real back up point guard to Parker during the 3 years that G Hill was on the team which put him in a tough spot between developing his ball handling and play making game as opposed to his natural scoring ability.

In any case, as a shooting guard he is better than Anderson and Neal, that's for sure and his scoring will be missed I'm afraid.

In short, this trade alone isn't awful but if more moves aren't made it all becomes a lot of wishful thinking and very few basketball evidences that this team will improve next year.

[5in10]

Just Wanted people to see GH3 #s on a per 36 minute basis compared to Anderson and Neals from last year.



GH3:-- 14.8pts 3.3 asst 3.2reb -- 0.4blks 1.1 stl 4.5fta

JA: 11.8pts 2.9 assts 2.3reb 0.8blks 0.4 stl 2.3fta

Neal: 16.7pts 4.2 assts 2.1reb 0.1blks 0.6 stl 2.2fta

I know there are some intangibles that were gonna miss from georgie, but production/stat wise, we shouldn't skip a beat.

[mando6599]

Just Wanted people to see GH3 #s on a per 36 minute basis compared to Anderson and Neals from last year.



GH3:-- 14.8pts 3.3 asst 3.2reb -- 0.4blks 1.1 stl 4.5fta

JA: 11.8pts 2.9 assts 2.3reb 0.8blks 0.4 stl 2.3fta

Neal: 16.7pts 4.2 assts 2.1reb 0.1blks 0.6 stl 2.2fta

I know there are some intangibles that were gonna miss from georgie, but production/stat wise, we shouldn't skip a beat.

This is a good start, but I would like to know the "hustle" stats for each and compare them. For instance, turnovers, turnover to assist ratio, tipped passes, steals, etc. GH3 had some major turnover issues as PG, imo. He is not a good ball handler, I think we all can admit that, right? Who's getting these stats? Anyone? Thanks.

[FkLA]

It's a chicken and egg sort of thing. Once they concluded that George couldn't replace Tony, the financial factor became more important and they moved him for future assets.

Had they concluded that George could replace Tony, they could have moved Tony and paid George.

Paying both really wasn't an option.

They never concluded that George couldnt replace Tony. They concluded that shipping an all-star caliber PG like Tony without including a horrible contract like RJ was not worth it. They wouldve never shopped Parker if they didnt have confidence in Hill as a PG though.


Just Wanted people to see GH3 #s on a per 36 minute basis compared to Anderson and Neals from last year.



GH3:-- 14.8pts 3.3 asst 3.2reb -- 0.4blks 1.1 stl 4.5fta

JA: 11.8pts 2.9 assts 2.3reb 0.8blks 0.4 stl 2.3fta

Neal: 16.7pts 4.2 assts 2.1reb 0.1blks 0.6 stl 2.2fta

I know there are some intangibles that were gonna miss from georgie, but production/stat wise, we shouldn't skip a beat.

Those stats have always been retarded. Didnt Blair average like 18 & 10 per 36 mpg his rookie season? Same with Splitter?? Anderson's and Neal's offensive skills are redundant, theyre both shooters and nowhere near the slashers Hill was. Their defense is pretty mediocre also. They also cant play back-up PG even in spot minutes. Even together they arent the player Hill was.

[ChumpDumper]

They never concluded that George couldnt replace Tony.Sure they did. Otherwise Hill would have played the point.

[Mel_13]

They never concluded that George couldnt replace Tony.

Of course they did, that's why George is now a Pacer.

[Leetonidas]

Of course they did, that's why George is now a Pacer.

:lmao:lmao

Anyway, can someone tell me what position Leonard is going to play? I keep hearing he's a tweener but a lot of other sites have him projected as a SF in the mold of Mbah a Moute. I'm just wondering if he can play SF full-time or is he going to struggle being out of position? I hear he has the athleticism, and he's only 6'7" but he is also 225 or so.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lmao:lmao

Anyway, can someone tell me what position Leonard is going to play? I keep hearing he's a tweener but a lot of other sites have him projected as a SF in the mold of Mbah a Moute. I'm just wondering if he can play SF full-time or is he going to struggle being out of position? I hear he has the athleticism, and he's only 6'7" but he is also 225 or so.

He'll prob be spending the whole summer and lock out in the corner of some gym shooting 1000 threes a day :lol

[ElNono]

Luckily for Leonard, with the lockout basically almost here, he'll have ample time to get over himself...

[Interrohater]

I don't see why some here are saying that Hill is a better player than Neal. He definitely has the physical assets to be a better player, but Neal is the truth. You can compare stats all day long, but Gary Neal seems to thrive under pressure, whereas Hill would wilt. Hill will be a star in Indiana, sure, but in our system he wasn't working. I'd rather have a great role-player that is a round peg in a round hole than a potential all-star (and I use that lightly) who just doesn't fit. No offense to the Hill lovers out there, but this was never going to be George's team while Manu and Tony were still around, therefore he'd never get the opportunity to be the number one option.

In addition, James Anderson can slash and drive, is bigger, just as quick and has good range.

[Mel_13]

I don't see why some here are saying that Hill is a better player than Neal.

Hill is a better player than Neal.

[Interrohater]

Hill is a better player than Neal.
Neal is a better player than Hill.


You see how stupid that comment was?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Neal is a better player than Hill.


You see how stupid that comment was?

Exactly at which aspects of his game is Neal better than Hill, except for shooting?

[Mel_13]

Neal is a better player than Hill.


You see how stupid that comment was?

I do agree that saying Neal is a better player than Hill is a stupid comment.

[hater]

Last year Hill did not prove he was a better player than Neal. Especially if you count the playoffs.

Hill played horrible D in the playoffs and made really stupid mistakes down the stretch.

[dbestpro]

I think with Anderson playing his natural postion at SG, he will make everyone forget about Hill.
In fact I would like to see him start along side TP, with Neal and Manu coming off the bench. In this way Manu can be the backup PG. There is not a player to be had better than Manu to run the backup point.

[Interrohater]

I do agree that saying Neal is a better player than Hill is a stupid comment.
:rolleyes Oh get over yourself and your one line responses like "that's all I need to say." My whole point is that Hill may have the potential to be a better player, but when it counts, Neal is a better player for this team. Hill's acclaimed defense was nowhere to be seen for the entirety of last season and he wilted under pressure. Go ahead and be contrary, as I'm sure you want to, throw an insecure one-liner out there and let's move on.

[Mel_13]

:rolleyes Oh get over yourself

You would be well served to take your own advice.

[Interrohater]

You would be well served to take your own advice.
lol, I would be well served, would I? Thanks, Mel_13, for proving my point. Again, let's move on. Then again, your pride mandates that you have the last word, doesn't it? Fine, have it.

[Mel_13]

lol, I would be well served, would I? Thanks, Mel_13, for proving my point. Again, let's move on. Then again, your pride mandates that you have the last word, doesn't it? Fine, have it.

[ElNono]

I was going to have the last word, tbh, but then somebody posted after me :depressed

[wildbill2u]

Somebody said we are all assuming that Leonard starts at some time next season. When Pop benches a vet in the playoffs and the Spurs trade up (almost unheard of for the Spurs) to get someone to replace him, the prospects for RJ keeping his starting position don't look bright.

I doubt Leonard will start at SF at the beginning of the season, but I expect him to compete--HARD--to get playing time if not to take RJ's job.

We'll see how RJ takes the challenge of a high draft choice pushing for his job. He'll either quit and rest on his contract or he'll fight to keep it by trying harder.

Either way, the team should be better.

[Interrohater]

Somebody said we are all assuming that Leonard starts at some time next season. When Pop benches a vet in the playoffs and the Spurs trade up (almost unheard of for the Spurs) to get someone to replace him, the prospects for RJ keeping his starting position don't look bright.

I doubt Leonard will start at SF at the beginning of the season, but I expect him to compete--HARD--to get playing time if not to take RJ's job.

We'll see how RJ takes the challenge of a high draft choice pushing for his job. He'll either quit and rest on his contract or he'll fight to keep it by trying harder.

Either way, the team should be better.

Wouldn't it be great if Pop said "To hell with the contract, he's not earning his spot in the rotation" and benched him? Sigh... if only.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wouldn't it be great if Pop said "To hell with the contract, he's not earning his spot in the rotation" and benched him? Sigh... if only.

Like he did in the Memphis series?

[Interrohater]

Like he did in the Memphis series?
Right, but I mean throughout the season and for the rest of his contract until we can move him.

[Ditty]

If anyone wants to hear his live interview with the pacers:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/welcome_george_hill_back_110627.html

it's about to start

[ace3g]

Here is the link to the press conference:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2011/06/27/GeorgeHillwelcomepressconference-1746606

[Maddog]

Geez, Spurs should have gotten more out of Hill. Larry Bird is treating Hill like Larry Bird.

maybe he can make Greg Foster sign with the Spurs for the vet minimum.....

[Buddy Holly]

I still don't understand the hype behind George Hill. He's a decent guard but come on. Did Jarret Jack get that kind of reception in New Orleans?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right, but I mean throughout the season and for the rest of his contract until we can move him.

Pop was trying to get it to work and he did not have many other options. In the second half we were getting dominated on the boards and putting Hill on the floor with Tony and Manu just means more trouble in that regard.

Early returns on Jefferson were also good. It looks to have been fools gold now but I have no issue with him trying to ride it til the wheels fell off. I am doubly in that viewpoint when I consider the alternatives.

Pop will go away from things that do not work when he has alternatives. Splitter missed all of TC and half the season. He still worked him in and tried to rely on him come playoff time. He benched Blair's ass even though you could tell outside of pic and roll sets Splitter was lost. What was encouraging is that you could see him get better game by game. He found his back screens and was contributing when he was not the focal point.

He tried to give Anderson some minutes down the stretch but he too was dinged and was ineffective to boot.

I understand the frustration but when you have those guys fall through what alternatives are you left with? I absolutely hated the Bonner Blair lineup but given the circumstances I do not see what reasonable alternative he had. i wish we had a capable 3. We did not.

Its going to be more of the same this year. We need Splitter healthy for 65+ games. We need Leonard, Anderson and Joseph to chip in. If that happens then a lot of our flaws will be addressed. If not then we are going to be in big trouble.

I do not find cynicism to be a virtue. I am not going to spend the next several months thinking its going to suck. The Spurs scouting has been pretty good over the last decade. I gotta have faith.

[FkLA]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

[TXstbobcat]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

I think that Hill would have filled in for Manu after the injury if this trade hadn't been made by the spurs.

[my2sons]

Maybe spurs traded hill because of danny green...seem to be same player and kawi has upside, youth, length....lets see that is what so many have been crying for, spurs take a chance then get beat down by the same people asking for this kind of move....

[ducks]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ulosturedge]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

I get what your saying but still way too early to start throwing that out there.

[DPG21920]

Again, I understand there might be more to the off season, I'm simply analyzing the trade that actually happened and where it puts the Spurs as they currently sit. I have no real feeling toward the actual trade in a buble as it is with two players that likely have about the same overall skill level.


lol might

:lol Looks like RJ is still starting and there wasn't very much more to the off season

[gospursgojas]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

:rolleyes

[MaNu4Tres]

Sorry for the bump, Leonard is just such a damn boss I couldn't help myself.

Was a no brainer move then that helped the Spurs now and for the future.

Such a damn solid trade by the FO.

[will_spurs]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

:lmao

[timtonymanu]

You knew there was something special about Leonard when they made this trade.

They gave away a fan favorite, Pop's favorite player, and someone whom the team trusted.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Looks like RJ is still starting and there wasn't very much more to the off seasonlol direction

[Stump]

You knew there was something special about Leonard when they made this trade.

They gave away a fan favorite, Pop's favorite player, and someone whom the team trusted.
:lol

George was never Pop's favorite player. He just started saying that during the 2009 training camp to save face after ripping him from the rotation the previous season and pissing everyone off.

[DPG21920]

lol direction

lol RJ untradeable

[NickiRasgo]

Time flies. One of my favorite as a Spur. Welcome back to San Antonio George Hill!

So far, it's a great move by the Spurs. Noticed also that there are people here who prefer Singleton over Leonard, how is Singleton right now? Anyway, it's a great move (as we can see right now) by the Spurs during off-season even though Spurs didn't make any move by just only signing TJ Ford and was about to sign another SF (Butler/Howard/Battier) by amnestying RJ but it didn't proceed and turned out to another great move by acquiring Captain Jack.

Sorry for bumping up.

[GB20]

Unless the Spurs move RJ, this guy likely won't have a chance to do anything
Hill was a very good rotation player. I'm not against trading Hill, but why for this?

:nope

[DPG21920]

RJ was traded guy

[WeNeedLength]

DPG wrong about dat Leonard.

:lol

[spursince#99]

ahhh Free at last

[Kermit]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

I'm sure you don't regret this at all.

[Brazil]

Would take Hill over Parker right now tbh.

:lmao

in before the conley card

:lmao

[Brazil]

Which is why I said (and Chump doesn't agree) that the move was more financial than any thing else it appears.

dpg wrong bout' Leonard

I hope nobody is going to find embarrassing quotes from me:lol

[benefactor]

Not that embarrassing tbh. I don't think anyone expected what we have seen from Leonard.

[FkLA]

Parker was playing like shit at the start of the season, I wouldve taken Hill over him for those first few weeks. Kawhi has proved alot of people, including me, wrong though...this was definitely a solid trade for the Spurs. :)

[Brazil]

Chump very solid in this thread tbh... in retrospect he was 100% right. :tu

[FkLA]

Chump is shit. He simply stated facts, not a single word about how he expected the trade to hurt/help the team. Nothing impressive about that in my opinion.

[WeNeedLength]

I live In San Diego, And I got Alot of Opportunity To See Kahwi Leonard Play...... He Is A Good Talent, Great Athletism, He has Huge Hands, a Good Wingspan, Plays Great defense(better then RJ OR Ghill), In College He was able to guard anyone from the point to the power forward.... He Is not A superstar.... But He will Be A solid Player in the NBA for along time....

This guy was fucking spot on. Props SpurCharger. :toast

[Mel_13]

Props to ElNoNo. He correctly, and immediately, identified the essential elements of the trade and patiently tried to explain them to those that didn't understand. Perhaps not to great effect, but the effort was there.

[Bartleby]

Leonard isn't going to supply instant stability at the small forward position. Hell, he isn't even going to see the court his first few seasons. Parker is as good as gone when Duncan retires which could come as soon as next season. They traded away a starting SG, who even with his ups and downs, was the one and only valuable trade chip the Spurs had at their disposal who could have brought in proven talent.


this one is full of win.

[gilmor]

Parker was playing like shit at the start of the season, I wouldve taken Hill over him for those first few weeks. Kawhi has proved alot of people, including me, wrong though...this was definitely a solid trade for the Spurs. :)

Manu also playing like shit (or not playing at all). Would you trade him also?

[TE]

DPG wrong about dat Leonard.

:lol

[Juan]

:lmao DPG. Shitted on multiple times in this thread.

[DPG21920]

:lol What are people talking about? I said with RJ on the roster, Kawhi here over a proven player made little sense and that it was mainly financial (not paying Hill is still the case and Kawhi is cheaper for a few more years). RJ then got traded, so that only helped my case.

The fact the Spurs were able to luck into trading RJ doesn't mean I was wrong. Kawhi wasn't playing as much nor starting while RJ was on the roster.

[TE]

In hindsight anyone is always right. :lol

[DPG21920]

How does this help the Spurs win now or rebuild


Unless the Spurs move RJ, this guy likely won't have a chance to do anything
Hill was a very good rotation player. I'm not against trading Hill, but why for this?


DPG complains all year about RJ. The Spurs make a trade for someone who can take over RJ's minutes and DPG says RJ will play. SMH.

RJ did continue to play, to the tune of the 2nd most minutes on the team until he was traded and only then did that open up the opportunity to have Kawhi start.

[ChumpDumper]

lol RJ untradeableI said quite the opposite.
I wouldn't close the book on trading RJ just yet. The only trades mentioned were horrible. There was no reason to do any of them at this point.

[DPG21920]

Not sure, don't know enough about him. In theory, yes, but what does it mean "use a player like ...". Losing Hill and getting doesnt really help the spurs contend next year and doesnt quicken the rebuilding process either. I also know that RJ is not going to be glued to the bench with that contract, so how much use can/will you get from Leonard?


Maybe I didn't articulate my point well:

The trade itself is fine IMO because Hill, while very good, isn't going to turn into one of those "holy sh*t we messed up trades". So in a bubble, the trade is fine and the spurs don't really miss when it's in the lottery range (weak draft or not). We won't know if Leonard is solid until he plays but even if he's a bust it doesn't set any thing back in a major way. It will be a blow to both contending and rebuilding but not a massive one either way.

But things don't happen in a bubble so the issue is if you gave up a rotation player on a contending team for some 19 year olds that might not be ready to contribute (maybe too young) or might not get an opportunity (RJ can't be moved) then you likely stayed put or moved backwards from a contention standpoint.

I know there is time, but swapping young player for young player doesn't really send you full steam into rebuild mode while at the same time it doesn't look to help you push forward from a contention stand point.

Thats all I said about the situation. Not that I hate the trade itself, it's just that when you move a young productive rotational asset, you would like to see it clearly be on a path to accomplish something either way (rebuild or contend).

Still plenty of time to go either way, but when evaluating this draft which is what happened, there are no real answers to anything.


Essentially the thing I was really wrong about was RJ and the ability to be moved. He was playing just as I said, but everything else was pretty on. Now with RJ being traded (which despite getting a better player in Jax back, this was purely a financial move), Kawhi has grown and the team looks great.

When the trade was made, the point was valid and I understood the logjam/financial reasoning.

[DPG21920]

Not that embarrassing tbh. I don't think anyone expected what we have seen from Leonard.

It's not embarrassing to call what happened, which I did, when I said RJ wouldn't be glued to the bench and Kawhi would not take his minutes when others said otherwise.

The thing I was wrong about was that RJ could be moved as he was (even though I said to many people that it wasn't impossible because it would take a bad contract for bad contract or an issue player) as Chump pointed out as well.

[DPG21920]

I said quite the opposite.

I was referencing the fact everyone said RJ was untradeable (which I thought, but not as fervently as most others) and that was what I was really harping on from the beginning when discussing Kawhi's possible impact with RJ on the roster as I said he would continue to get large minutes.

[FkLA]

Manu also playing like shit (or not playing at all). Would you trade him also?

No, I love Manu.

[TJastal]

Actually RJ is a very valuable piece to a tanking team.

[FkLA]

Also noone expected Kawhi to be this good, this soon. So its not really embarrassing to have questioned the move and its lack of direction at the time. You dont normally trade an established player like Hill for a young unproven rookie if youre still trying to compete. Kawhi just happened to go against the norm cause hes a stud.

[elemento]

So much fail in thread

Hill over Parker :lmao

Singleton over Leonard :lmao

Parker has one of the the best years of his career carrying an injury-plagued Spurs to the top and Hill proves he can't play the point in Indy as we already knew.

Singleton has 0 offensive game (44%TS and 8 PER), his defensive game did not translate to the NBA as everyone expected while Leonard is a top10 rookie and will be part of the 1st all-rookie team

Oh man some Spurs fans are truly pathetic and Parker is the most unappreciated Spurs ever easily.

[DPG21920]

Yes. I even said that in a bubble, Hill for Kawhi made plenty of sense because Kawhi would likely be as good as Hill talent wise and would be cheaper for a few year. The questions were about giving up a somewhat proven and young player for a questionable asset basketball wise when you are doing a contend/re-build on the fly type deal. Especially when you had limited trade assets. I thought RJ was somewhat untradeable, but not as much as many others. The fact the Spurs were able to find the single dumbest team in the NBA to take RJ on and pay a premium to do so is luck. Thank God.

[benefactor]

It's not embarrassing to call what happened, which I did, when I said RJ wouldn't be glued to the bench and Kawhi would not take his minutes when others said otherwise.

The thing I was wrong about was that RJ could be moved as he was (even though I said to many people that it wasn't impossible because it would take a bad contract for bad contract or an issue player) as Chump pointed out as well.
I was referencing what Brazil said about your statement regarding the move being strictly financial. At the time I think your were right. The Spurs knew that Hill wasn't in the plans for the future and didn't want to pay him...so the rolled the dice on a good prospect...one they had scouted out well(though no one found out about that until later). No one could have called what happened with RJ. Heck, someone in another thread even put the RJ/Buckets trade up and said, "Since we are dreaming..."

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Same with the RJ trade. It was financial and I firmly believe they would make the move regardless of who they got back. The fact they brought in Jax as the guy and he's turned out to be a good fit overall is just a bonus. Not that it takes away from the fact they improved the team, but it wasn't purely a basketball move, it was easily mainly a financial one that had the bonus of being a positive basketball wise.

The gambles to save money and improve at the same time came up Ace's so far and that's awesome.

[ChumpDumper]

Also noone expected Kawhi to be this good, this soon. So its not really embarrassing to have questioned the move and its lack of direction at the time. You dont normally trade an established player like Hill for a young unproven rookie if youre still trying to compete. Kawhi just happened to go against the norm cause hes a stud.What had Hill really established?

That he had peaked below expectations?

That's an argument for trading for someone who hasn't yet.

[housious]

George Hill had no place on this team. He couldn't get enough time at PG and was not an effective 2.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs made this trade and basically the worst-case scenario happened: They suddenly ended up critically thin at point guard. One would think that this would, on some level, make the Hill trade a mistake. There's not a single person at this point who even entertains that idea. Even if it had been a straight-up swap, it's still a huge win for the Spurs.

[elemento]

We would be thin at point guard with or without Hill simply because he isn't a PG.

Considering the fact that he wants 7.5m/year i'd say it's a huge victory for us. He is not worth this kind of money at all.

[elemento]

We would be thin at point guard with or without Hill simply because he isn't a PG.

Considering the fact that he wants 7.5m/year i'd say it's a huge victory for us. He is not worth this kind of money at all.

[TJastal]

We would be thin at point guard with or without Hill simply because he isn't a PG.

Considering the fact that he wants 7.5m/year i'd say it's a huge victory for us. He is not worth this kind of money at all.

Agree.

At this point Hill is still showing the same inconsistencies in Indiana that plagued him as a spur. I would have never guessed he was going to demand that kind of loot, and be stupid enough to turn down the 6m / yr offer from the pacers. While it remains to be seen how he performs in the playoffs, I'm satisfied the spurs dumped him before all that happened.

And acquired a top 5 rookie too boot.

At a position of desperate need.

Plus a couple of future prospects which could have impacts down the line.

That was certainly a master coup conducted by Pop/RC.

[Obstructed_View]

We would be thin at point guard with or without Hill simply because he isn't a PG.

Considering the fact that he wants 7.5m/year i'd say it's a huge victory for us. He is not worth this kind of money at all.

Point is, even with the loss of TJ Ford, Manu missing time and the lack of production from Cory Joseph, nobody is in here saying "lol should have kept Hill". That's how huge a win that trade was for the Spurs, and that doesn't even take the other elements of the trade into account.

[DesignatedT]

Exactly. Even if it was a straight up swap (Kawhi for George) and RJ was still on the roster the move would still help the Spurs in the future and NOW.

It's not like the trade only turned out well because we got rid of RJ. Great trade.

[FkLA]

What had Hill really established?

That he had peaked below expectations?

That's an argument for trading for someone who hasn't yet.

He brought alot to the table, even if he had kind of peaked. Although not an elite defender he was still the teams best and most versatile defender out in the perimeter. He also had the best all-around offensive game on the team outside of the Big 3. In short he was a very good role player. I dont think anyone realistically expected Leonard to match the impact Hill had for the team much less surpass it as a rookie.

The argument couldve been made if youre looking towards the future, not the present. Very good role player for unproven rookie usually isnt a good move for an older team still looking to contend. Again, Leonard just went against the norm cause hes a stud.

[DesignatedT]

Exactly. Even if it was a straight up swap (Kawhi for George) and RJ was still on the roster the move would still help the Spurs in the future and NOW.

It's not like the trade only turned out well because we got rid of RJ. Great trade.

[ChumpDumper]

He brought alot to the table, even if he had kind of peaked. Although not an elite defender he was still the teams best and most versatile defender out in the perimeter. He also had the best all-around offensive game on the team outside of the Big 3. In short he was a very good role player. I dont think anyone realistically expected Leonard to match the impact Hill had for the team much less surpass it as a rookie.

The argument couldve been made if youre looking towards the future, not the present. Very good role player for unproven rookie usually isnt a good move for an older team still looking to contend. Again, Leonard just went against the norm cause hes a stud.Man, you are shifting prevailing wind patterns with all this spin. Hill had peaked and was easily replaced.

[MaNu4Tres]

He brought alot to the table, even if he had kind of peaked. Although not an elite defender he was still the teams best and most versatile defender out in the perimeter. He also had the best all-around offensive game on the team outside of the Big 3. In short he was a very good role player. I dont think anyone realistically expected Leonard to match the impact Hill had for the team much less surpass it as a rookie.

The argument couldve been made if youre looking towards the future, not the present. Very good role player for unproven rookie usually isnt a good move for an older team still looking to contend. Again, Leonard just went against the norm cause hes a stud.

The gap between Hill and the players below him (Neal most notably, Green/Anderson) was not significant in terms of offensive output and production last year. (Whenever Green and Anderson got minutes they produced respectably.) Add that fact, with the fact that Spurs opened up minutes for more capable defenders Green and Leonard (due to their physical attributes), Spurs weren't losing anything on the defensive end either. It was a move that clearly helped now and for the future with or without R.J.

To be exact, this is what I said when the trade went down:
(substitute Anderson for Green-- with Hill gone it opened up minutes for the winner of their competition for the rotation spot-- who most people thought it would be Anderson, including me.)


I get this point you are trying to make but I don't agree with your implication that it's a relevant issue when the Spurs have NBA proven players in Neal and Anderson ready and more than capable to fill in the void at the SG spot (where Hill played 80% of his minutes).

Spurs won't lose much if at all with Hill being gone from an offensive perspective because of Neal and Anderson deserving and worthy of more minutes and being just as good or better shooters than Hill (Hill was more of a spot up shooter than anything else). Hill was expendable, even if he was a rotation player last year.

That being said, I don't see this team taking a step back from offensive perspective with Hill being gone (Spurs have a lot of weapons outside of Neal/Anderson as well). Furthermore, the Spurs improved from a defensive perspective as they drafted the best small forward in the draft that happens to be very defensive oriented and gifted (6'7" frame- 7'3" wingspan). And at the same time, the move allows Anderson to get quality burn now-- who is a damn good defender and has to size to guard wings more effectively.

Last year, the Spurs used Neal and Hill quite often at the 2/3 spot behind the Jefferson-Ginobili-Parker starting lineup. Neal and Hill were asked and forced to guard long 2's and 3's quite often and their size was a glaring weakness from a defensive perspective (Sam Young, Vasquez, Allen had a field day in the first round). With this move, Spurs now have minutes available to integrate wings w/ size (Leonard/Anderson) into the rotation. And they still have Neal in their arsenal as well.

I don't see how this sets the Spurs back for now or for the future. If Spurs traded Hill for a questionable late first rounder ( Jimmy Butler) and didn't have quality depth at the two spot (Neal/Anderson) then I'd agree with you. But that is simply not the case. IMO


Hear explaining to people who said the trade had no direction:


It helps the defense now at the expense of an expendable player. How much will he help? That is up to him, being injury free, Pop and the future or play of RJ (worst case scenario w/ R.J, Leonard will see 15-20 minutes of action a night if he stays healthy).

It helps the future in that it gives the Spurs the best small forward prospect in the draft for the next 4-5 years on a very cheap salary. Something Hill wasn't going to be able to provide, not even from the back up sg/pg spot due to his contract being up after next year.

It's a win/win from both perspectives considering perimeter and interior defense was a major weakness (Leonard will help both). And also considering Spurs won't have a hard time finding a replacement for Hill's production having Neal and Anderson in the fold.

My response to people saying Spurs should have considered paying Hill because he was their best young prospect.


Answer me this..

Do you think it's smart basketball business to pay a back up combo/guard 6-7 million per year, when you already have an All-Star point guard demanding 33-35 minutes a night making 12.5 million per year?

At the same time, do you think it's smart to pay a back up SG 6-7 million per year, when you already have two quality back up's in Anderson and Neal for 1/6th of that 6-7 million price tag?

Hill didn't and doesn't have a future here from a common sense perspective if Parker is here. That has to do with Parker, the draft of Anderson and the coming out party of Neal last year. It just didn't make sense, unless Spurs thought of Hill as Manu's replacement at the SG position, which they obviously didn't considering his size. Which is totally understandable.

Response to "Spurs traded their 4th best player".
(Again sub Green for Anderson)

Because the gap between the 4th best player (Hill) and Neal/Anderson wasn't and isn't significant. Neal and Anderson are more than capable to fill in the void left by Hill on both ends.

And how do you know Leonard won't have an impact? He only happened to be the best small forward prospect in the entire draft (a position of weakness the past 3 years). And he only happens to fit the skill-set of a player that the Spurs have needed ever since Bowen retired. If you watched any games last year, Spurs were physically out manned on the perimeter at the expense of Hill and Neal playing out of their positions (SF/SG).

Next year, with Leonard and the freeing up of playing time for Anderson, the Spurs instantly improve their perimeter defense. At the same time, Leonard and Anderson will help the interior defense-- given their size and superior physicality. Not saying they will be playing the 4 obviously, but they will be able to lend the bigs a significant helping hand considering their length and size-- rotating over and getting a hand up to contest off the ball. Or shoring up defensive possessions by limiting teams to one shot by their superior rebounding (Leonard) or by being able to put their big bodies on big 2-4's when blocking out.

Spurs won this trade.

Go Spurs Go. :downspin:

[Obstructed_View]

I dont think anyone realistically expected Leonard to match the impact Hill had for the team much less surpass it as a rookie.

I don't really think Hill set the bar that high. The only real concern with drafting Leonard was that Pop might not give him enough burn to establish himself, though common sense told us Pop wouldn't have given up Hill if he wasn't prepared to do that.

[4down]

He's better than RJ.


Props to Sigz on this call.

[4down]

I hope they didn't give up the #29: I'd like to see the Spurs take a gamble on Isaiah Thomasthere.

FIFY

#hindsight #one game HOF'er :lol

and :lol at anyone who ever thought Hill would have been a suitable Parker replacement.

[MaNu4Tres]

Isaiah Thomas has been a pleasant surprise for Sacramento. Reminds me of a lesser version of Nick Van Exel mixed in with Avery Johnson.

Good steal with the last pick of the draft. :tu

[Mel_13]

Draft time favorite Chris Singleton was recently in the news for buying $10,000 worth of lottery tickets for the Mega Millions. This tweet just popped up:

Chris Singleton was asked if spending $10K on lottery tix was a wise investment: "Either that, or blow it in the club."

http://twitter.com/#!/MrMichaelLee

[DPG21920]

:lol what a dumb thing to say

[benefactor]

:lol

Don't let mono or DoK read that.

[elemento]

Chris Singleton is the typical NBA player that will be broke fast after he retires. Thank god we didn't get this moron instead of Leonard. Not only he is dumb, but he also sucks.

I remember someone in ST constantly bitching because we took Leonard over Singleton ? You guys remember who ?:lmao

[SenorSpur]

The real value of this trade, that the Spurs pulled off, will be the found, not just in the upward surge in Leonard's development, but also with how Lorbek and Bertans work out. This has the potential to be a huge get for the Spurs.

[Brazil]

I was referencing what Brazil said about your statement regarding the move being strictly financial. At the time I think your were right. The Spurs knew that Hill wasn't in the plans for the future and didn't want to pay him...so the rolled the dice on a good prospect...one they had scouted out well(though no one found out about that until later). No one could have called what happened with RJ. Heck, someone in another thread even put the RJ/Buckets trade up and said, "Since we are dreaming..."


Exactly. Same with the RJ trade. It was financial and I firmly believe they would make the move regardless of who they got back. The fact they brought in Jax as the guy and he's turned out to be a good fit overall is just a bonus. Not that it takes away from the fact they improved the team, but it wasn't purely a basketball move, it was easily mainly a financial one that had the bonus of being a positive basketball wise.

The gambles to save money and improve at the same time came up Ace's so far and that's awesome.

I disagree with that tbh fwiw.

I don't think this trade was purely financial. We had some depth at SG spot and nothing at SF so the move was also and primary to balance the roster and to prepare the after RJ. I do think Spurs were high on Leonard and they hoped he could bring something right away. Chuck was thinking Leonard was a starter maybe so do the Spurs. Leonard didn't get the usual pop rookie treatment and get some good minutes quickly.

[TJastal]

Draft time favorite Chris Singleton was recently in the news for buying $10,000 worth of lottery tickets for the Mega Millions. This tweet just popped up:

Chris Singleton was asked if spending $10K on lottery tix was a wise investment: "Either that, or blow it in the club."

http://twitter.com/#!/MrMichaelLee

I wonder how long it must've taken some poor cashier to check all those lotto numbers.

:lol

[TJastal]

Chris Singleton is the typical NBA player that will be broke fast after he retires. Thank god we didn't get this moron instead of Leonard. Not only he is dumb, but he also sucks.

I remember someone in ST constantly bitching because we took Leonard over Singleton ? You guys remember who ?:lmao

So has anyone ever had a productive career playing for the washington wizards? Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised to see Singleton's career take off once he is traded from that worthless franchise.

I'll agree Leonard is having the bigger impact so far this year, and probably fits what the spurs needed better since they acquired Jax and Diaw. Singleton is a different type of player, more athletic, taller & stronger. He would have given the spurs a different dimension but I think Leonard is the more versatile player.

You act like you've never been wrong before. Everybody has been wrong about something on this forum before.

[Blake]

Don't know why they took Leonard over Singleton. Anyone have any idea?

lol

[freetiago]

Imagine how good we would be if we were able to resign George after trading him

[rjv]

1) Kyrie Irving

2) Derrick Williams

3) Enes Kanter

4) Tristan Thompson

5) Jonas Valanciunas

6) Jan Vesely

7) Bismack Biyombo

8) Brandon Knight

9) Kemba Walker

10) Jimmer Fredette

11) Klay Thompson

12) Alec Burks

13) Markieff Morris

14) Marcus Morris

15) Kahwi Leonard

29) Cory Joseph

[Nathan89]

15) Kahwi Leonard

29) Cory Joseph

We drafted two starters in one draft.

[Seventyniner]

Kawhi could very well end up as the second-best player in that whole draft. Amazing.

[Obstructed_View]

BTW, does DPG think the Spurs should have risked trading for a long three yet?

[shyne]

Kawhi could very well end up as the second-best player in that whole draft. Amazing.

He might even be a better choice than Irving because from the looks of it he's made of glass.

[look_at_g_shred]

Who did the Spurs get? The big hands guy?

Yeah, the big hands guy..

[Pasta Batman]

Imagine how good we would be if we were able to resign George after trading him

Hill's growth was only able to happen because he got more playing time and got to be one of the "men." The team is/was too stacked at the wings. Hill costs too much for what he was giving. He likely would not have improved the same way without experiences and time. So yeah, it would have never worked out due to opportunities.

[Obstructed_View]

...and good for Georgie that he got to play for his home team, and start to boot.

[szkorhetz]

Yeah, probably the most win-win trade in the last couple of years..

[Pasta Batman]

...and good for Georgie that he got to play for his home team, and start to boot.

Well he didn't start right away. He actually earned it. Unfortunately, the Spurs have a few players just better that never would have left him start.

[exstatic]

We drafted two starters in one draft.

Yeah, one for SA and one for Austin. :lol

[MR-Clutch]

I know it's a small sample size but...

George Hill- PER 16.8
Cory Joseph-PER 15.8

[freetiago]

George Hill can take it to the rack off the dribble
he can hit the mid range shot coming off screens
and as a spot up shooter he was elite as well
defense was better then Josephs as well with his freak length
the Hill Neal Ginobili Bonner Blair lineup was actually the most offensive efficient lineup in the nba in 2011 iirc
Hills only problem was his inconsistency

i know it wasnt really possible but if the Spurs were able to find a way to sign hill then our bench would be deadly
hill
ginobili
jackson
diaw
splitter/baynes

if we got lucky and were able to get scola too...

[Ice009]

George Hill can take it to the rack off the dribble
he can hit the mid range shot coming off screens
and as a spot up shooter he was elite as well
defense was better then Josephs as well with his freak length
the Hill Neal Ginobili Bonner Blair lineup was actually the most offensive efficient lineup in the nba in 2011 iirc
Hills only problem was his inconsistency

i know it wasnt really possible but if the Spurs were able to find a way to sign hill then our bench would be deadly
hill
ginobili
jackson
diaw
splitter/baynes

if we got lucky and were able to get scola too...

George Hill was a very average defender at times. He had a few great defensive games, but he was at best, just above average on the defensive end.

He used his arms to recover all the time after his man had gotten past him. Never moved his feet well.

Cojo has the potential to be a better defender. Cory at least moves his feet and can stick with his man most of the time.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

George Hill was a very average defender at times. He had a few great defensive games, but he was at best, just above average on the defensive end.

He used his arms to recover all the time after his man had gotten past him. Never moved his feet well.

Cojo has the potential to be a better defender. Cory at least moves his feet and can stick with his man most of the time.

Yeah from what I remember George had lead feet.

[ohmwrecker]

I would give up de Colo, Mills and Neal to get George back.

[Gagnrath]

Hill is going to stay a pacer unless some other team goes stupid with paying him. He'll give either the pacers or the spurs a discount of around 95 cents on the dollar but not much more. Spurs don't need him at either PG or SG and he's a small sg, his PG skills are now adequate but its important to remember the pacers run a motion offense that is actuated as much by high post passing as by the PG.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill is going to stay a pacer unless some other team goes stupid with paying him. He'll give either the pacers or the spurs a discount of around 95 cents on the dollar but not much more. Spurs don't need him at either PG or SG and he's a small sg, his PG skills are now adequate but its important to remember the pacers run a motion offense that is actuated as much by high post passing as by the PG.

Didn't the Pacers already do that?

[jesterbobman]

Does everyone understand that this was a good trade for both teams, and George Hill is actually really good.

George Hill advanced Stats


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


2008-09 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2009/)
22
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2009.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html)
PG
77
1270
11.6
.502
.435
2.9
11.9
7.4
16.6
1.9
1.2
14.5
19.5
101
104
0.2
2.0
2.1
.080


2009-10 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2010/)
23
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html)
PG
78
2276
14.7
.572
.529
2.2
8.2
5.3
15.5
1.6
0.8
10.7
19.0
115
106
4.1
2.6
6.7
.142


2010-11 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2011/)
24
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2011.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html)
PG
76
2148
14.6
.588
.514
1.3
9.2
5.4
13.6
1.6
0.7
11.6
18.2
116
108
4.0
2.1
6.1
.136


2011-12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2012/)
25
IND (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2012.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html)
PG
50
1274
15.7
.557
.513
2.8
10.5
6.7
18.8
1.7
1.1
10.8
17.2
117
105
2.8
1.3
4.0
.152


2012-13 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2013/)
26
IND (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
PG
60
2078
16.8
.564
.527
2.0
10.5
6.3
24.1
1.5
0.8
11.5
19.2
117
102
4.7
3.1
7.8
.181


Career


NBA

341
9046
14.9
.563
.511
2.1
9.8
6.0
17.6
1.6
0.9
11.6
18.7
114
105
15.7
11.1
26.8
.142



That WS ranks him 21st in the league. That's only 1 statistical measure, so look at a Adjusted +/- measure.

From (http://talkingpracticeblog.com/)

George is 39th in the league in impact.(Again, an estimate)

If he's close to that, his $8 million contract is good value.

Getting that for #15 and #42 is a great deal.

It's possible to recognise that
a) The Spurs won the trade, as Kawhi on #15 pick rookie scale is a better deal than George Hill on 8m and
b) George Hill at $8million is a good deal.

[mudyez]

i know it wasnt really possible but if the Spurs were able to find a way to sign hill then our bench would be deadly
hill
ginobili
jackson
diaw
splitter/baynes


you know that you need 5 starters first, if you are talking about a bench, right? (TP+TD!....bonner? blair? neal?)

[Maddog]

Does everyone understand that this was a good trade for both teams, and George Hill is actually really good.



George is 39th in the league in impact.(Again, an estimate)

If he's close to that, his $8 million contract is good value.

Getting that for #15 and #42 is a great deal.

It's possible to recognise that
a) The Spurs won the trade, as Kawhi on #15 pick rookie scale is a better deal than George Hill on 8m and
b) George Hill at $8million is a good deal.

A couple of thoughts- great for both teams-
1 Indy did not need a small forward- see George and Granger
2 SA did not really need a combo guard and needed a 3.
3 Overall I think Hill is what he is going to be at this time, while Kawhi has potential to be better than he is currently (how much I am clueless)
4 Spurs also got an intriguing prospect in Bertams at 42

Right now pretty even trade- let's check back in a few years and this may seem like highway robbery (Or least a Lakeresque trade)

[Drom John]

[QUTOE]Originally Posted by Seventyniner
Kawhi could very well end up as the second-best player in that whole draft. Amazing.[/QUOTE]

He might even be a better choice than Irving because from the looks of it he's made of glass.

At the moment Leonard is the second best. Irving isn't the best.
Win Shares:
1) Kenneth Faried
2) Kawhi Leonard
3) Kyrie Irving
4) Chandler Parsons
5) Isaiah Thomas
35) Cory Joseph

[Darkwaters]

A couple of thoughts- great for both teams-
1 Indy did not need a small forward- see George and Granger


That point is moot. The Pacers didn't have to draft Leonard at all. They could have drafted a completely different player at a completely different position.

[racm]

[QUTOE]Originally Posted by Seventyniner
Kawhi could very well end up as the second-best player in that whole draft. Amazing.


At the moment Leonard is the second best. Irving isn't the best.
Win Shares:
1) Kenneth Faried
2) Kawhi Leonard
3) Kyrie Irving
4) Chandler Parsons
5) Isaiah Thomas
35) Cory Joseph[/QUOTE]

I think KL would have had more WS if he didn't miss that crucial stretch of games. Faried has stayed healthy OTOH.

[racm]

That point is moot. The Pacers didn't have to draft Leonard at all. They could have drafted a completely different player at a completely different position.

Players available at #15:

Nikola Vucevic, Iman Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Donatas Motiejunas to name a few. All could have fitted a need for Indiana.

[Obstructed_View]

b) George Hill at $8million is a good deal.

...for a team with forwards that are great passers and no real backup point guard, this is true, but only because Hill blew up this season. George Hill at 8 mil for the Spurs would have been one of the worst contracts in history.

[will_spurs]

Players available at #15:

Nikola Vucevic, Iman Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Donatas Motiejunas to name a few. All could have fitted a need for Indiana.

Would you rather have any of these guys rather than George Hill? Serious question.

To other posters: a PER of 16.8 doesn't point towards a player who is "actually really good" but rather "actually a bit above average" (same holds for Kawhi). I like Kawhi's potential a lot more than Hill's, at this stage. I can't see how this isn't a great win-win trade, in any case.

[letmk]

Just watched some of Lakers-Paces game. Hill was raping Nash down the stretch, but for inexplicable reasons, the ball went to Stevenson and others, then the ball game. As much as we fans disagree with Pop for this or that decision, this shows that overall he is still the best coach.

[iminol]

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2013/03/16/pacers-hill-sounds-off-on-lack-of-fan-support-full-transcript/

check this out

[Samr.]

I think the dude has a point with that. Youre one of the best teams in the league right now. Come to the game, show your support. It's a business yeah, and I guess technically you can root for whomever you wanna root for. But it's your home town team. That kinda gets to the heart of what sports is all about, at least for me. You gotta support them regardless of wins or losses. And you especially don't show up in Lakers jerseys. Because that's just disrespectful.

[Cane]

“It sucks. It was 70 (Lakers fans) – 30 (Pacers fans) out there. These are the same people that wants autographs after the game"

Doesn't sound that different from a Lakers game in SA tbh

[exstatic]

George Hill can take it to the rack off the dribble
he can hit the mid range shot coming off screens
and as a spot up shooter he was elite as well
defense was better then Josephs as well with his freak length
the Hill Neal Ginobili Bonner Blair lineup was actually the most offensive efficient lineup in the nba in 2011 iirc
Hills only problem was his inconsistency

i know it wasnt really possible but if the Spurs were able to find a way to sign hill then our bench would be deadly
hill
ginobili
jackson
diaw
splitter/baynes

if we got lucky and were able to get scola too...

SA was never going to pay Indy George what he got to come off the bench.

[exstatic]

Does everyone understand that this was a good trade for both teams, and George Hill is actually really good.

George Hill advanced Stats


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
MP
PER
TS%
eFG%
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
ORtg
DRtg
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


2008-09 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2009/)
22
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2009.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html)
PG
77
1270
11.6
.502
.435
2.9
11.9
7.4
16.6
1.9
1.2
14.5
19.5
101
104
0.2
2.0
2.1
.080


2009-10 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2010/)
23
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html)
PG
78
2276
14.7
.572
.529
2.2
8.2
5.3
15.5
1.6
0.8
10.7
19.0
115
106
4.1
2.6
6.7
.142


2010-11 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2011/)
24
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2011.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html)
PG
76
2148
14.6
.588
.514
1.3
9.2
5.4
13.6
1.6
0.7
11.6
18.2
116
108
4.0
2.1
6.1
.136


2011-12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2012/)
25
IND (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2012.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html)
PG
50
1274
15.7
.557
.513
2.8
10.5
6.7
18.8
1.7
1.1
10.8
17.2
117
105
2.8
1.3
4.0
.152


2012-13 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillge01/gamelog/2013/)
26
IND (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
PG
60
2078
16.8
.564
.527
2.0
10.5
6.3
24.1
1.5
0.8
11.5
19.2
117
102
4.7
3.1
7.8
.181


Career


NBA

341
9046
14.9
.563
.511
2.1
9.8
6.0
17.6
1.6
0.9
11.6
18.7
114
105
15.7
11.1
26.8
.142



That WS ranks him 21st in the league. That's only 1 statistical measure, so look at a Adjusted +/- measure.

From (http://talkingpracticeblog.com/)

George is 39th in the league in impact.(Again, an estimate)

If he's close to that, his $8 million contract is good value.

Getting that for #15 and #42 is a great deal.

It's possible to recognise that
a) The Spurs won the trade, as Kawhi on #15 pick rookie scale is a better deal than George Hill on 8m and
b) George Hill at $8million is a good deal.

b) is true only if he's starting. He is for Indy, but he wouldn't be here, and he wouldn't be enough of a catalyst/sparkplug to pay 8M to come off the bench.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

He was a horrible playmaker from what I remember but could get hot and was an ultimate team player. I would rather have Leonard at the 2 guard than Hill, not that Leonard is going to be a 2, but I think it's possible he could be in the future.

[milkyway21]

http://ph.nba.com/pre-season.php

If Hill still a Pacer in October, I might be able watch him play live in Manila :blah

[bbarry]

it's always interesting to read year old posts to see who knows what the hell they are talking about and who doesn't. :lmao

[Obstructed_View]

He was a horrible playmaker from what I remember but could get hot and was an ultimate team player. I would rather have Leonard at the 2 guard than Hill, not that Leonard is going to be a 2, but I think it's possible he could be in the future.

Leonard has put in time at the 2 for the Spurs this year. It's the first time in years the Spurs have decided to dictate with size. Well with big size, anyway.

[FkLA]

Why do dumb spur fans refuse to give Hill his props or look to underrate him? He ended up being a starting PG on a pretty good team, which 99% of you thought he wasnt capable of doing. Id rather have Kawhi over him but need to hate on Hill. Not his fault he was a better floor general in 2010 than Tony tbh.

[DesignatedT]

which 99% of you thought he wasnt capable of doing

Not true.


Not his fault he was a better floor general in 2010 than Tony tbh.

and not true.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do dumb spur fans refuse to give Hill his props or look to underrate him? He ended up being a starting PG on a pretty good team, which 99% of you thought he wasnt capable of doing. Id rather have Kawhi over him but need to hate on Hill. Not his fault he was a better floor general in 2010 than Tony tbh.You're coming off as desperate here.

[Obstructed_View]

Why do dumb spur fans refuse to give Hill his props or look to underrate him? He ended up being a starting PG on a pretty good team, which 99% of you thought he wasnt capable of doing. Id rather have Kawhi over him but need to hate on Hill. Not his fault he was a better floor general in 2010 than Tony tbh.

My guess is that people are pointing out realities because of silly statements like the above. Hill had more turnovers than assists in the 2010 playoffs, and ranked just behind Matt Bonner in assists per minute. Second to last behind Mahinmi who had zero assists.

[FkLA]

The Spurs turned their season around when ill Hill took over at the PG spot in 2010. Thats reality tbh.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs turned their season around when ill Hill took over at the PG spot in 2010. Thats reality tbh.

Their winning percentage dropped when Parker got hurt. If that isn't reality, then what's it called?

[FkLA]

:lol thats so dishonest

Spurs had a really difficult schedule to end the season...Lakers, Cavs, OKC, and Magic twice. They also had the Celtics and Chicken Nuggets. If you dont think the Spurs played better during that stretch than they had all season than youre just a dumbass tbh. Pop didnt keep him in the starting line-up even when Parker was healthy just for fun.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol thats so dishonest

Spurs had a really difficult schedule to end the season...Lakers, Cavs, OKC, and Magic twice. They also had the Celtics and Chicken Nuggets. If you dont think the Spurs played better during that stretch than they had all season than youre just a dumbass tbh. Pop didnt keep him in the starting line-up even when Parker was healthy just for fun.

Odd, since he didn't keep Hill in the starting lineup when Parker was healthy, he started Garrett Temple and brought Parker off the bench. Hill got four or five games off before the playoffs. Since Manu had been moved into the starting lineup when Parker got hurt, Tony assumed the sixth man role when the playoffs came around because there wasn't enough time to re-establish the lineups. That is, until Hill shit the bed against the Suns at which point Hill got benched and Parker started.

[therealtruth]

Odd, since he didn't keep Hill in the starting lineup when Parker was healthy, he started Garrett Temple and brought Parker off the bench. Hill got four or five games off before the playoffs. Since Manu had been moved into the starting lineup when Parker got hurt, Tony assumed the sixth man role when the playoffs came around because there wasn't enough time to re-establish the lineups. That is, until Hill shit the bed against the Suns at which point Hill got benched and Parker started.

It's hard to say a series can be lost in the first few minutes but I think Hill may have done that against the Suns.

[therealtruth]

Why do dumb spur fans refuse to give Hill his props or look to underrate him? He ended up being a starting PG on a pretty good team, which 99% of you thought he wasnt capable of doing. Id rather have Kawhi over him but need to hate on Hill. Not his fault he was a better floor general in 2010 than Tony tbh.

Hill wasn't a floor general. He gave the ball to Manu and got out of the way. It was Manu beasting in after TP got hurt that made the team really good. He probably had one of his best stretches of play as a Spur. I think he was averaging like 25/6/6.

[Obstructed_View]

It's hard to say a series can be lost in the first few minutes but I think Hill may have done that against the Suns.

His first two starts were certainly a disaster.

[spurraider21]

Hill wasn't a floor general. He gave the ball to Manu and got out of the way. It was Manu beasting in after TP got hurt that made the team really good. He probably had one of his best stretches of play as a Spur. I think he was averaging like 25/6/6.

This. Up until the Memphis series, this had been Manu's team (at least as far as the offense) for a couple of years.

[FkLA]

I never said Hill led the Spurs. Manu was playing like shit prior to that last third of the season btw, his improvement had alot to do with Hill needing the ball in his hands alot less than Tony. IIRC even RJ went from sucking dick to actually having a pretty decent stretch towards the end of that season.

:lol at people still blaming the Suns loss on Hill, Spurs werent even that good. We were a 7th seed that looked like shit up until Parker went down and Manu went into god mode.

[EricB]

Lol at the level of fail in this thread when the trade went down.

[Obstructed_View]

I never said Hill led the Spurs.

Oh sorry. I guess the term "FLOOR GENERAL" means something different to the rest of the world. :lmao

[mrjap2x]

Who did the spurs like in the 2011 draft other than kawhi?

[I. Hustle]

Who did the spurs like in the 2011 draft other than kawhi?

Your mom

[Chinook]

Who did the spurs like in the 2011 draft other than kawhi?

Is this a serious question? They drafted their current starting point guard and their top two international prospects (or at least their top one and Hanga). That draft has the potential to be one of the best ever in a few years.

[Chinook]

Count me as one of those people who was saddened by losing Hill. I really wanted a young player to stick with the team. But I understood how big of a need a legitimate small-forward was, so the fact that they got to pick one they liked rather than just getting whatever fell to them made me feel better.

The thing that makes the trade so good is not just that Leonard as turned out to be so good, it's also that Green stepped in and pretty much filled Hill's role completely (including the inconsistency). It almost doesn't seem fair. It would be like trading Splitter for a top-five pick and then seeing Baynes come in and be even better.

[Seventyniner]

It would be like trading Splitter for a top-five pick and then seeing Baynes come in and be even better.

You're telling me that Baynes isn't already better than Splitter?

[Chinook]

You're telling me that Baynes isn't already better than Splitter?

Hey, with your skills at breaking down stats, I'm sure you could make a compelling argument for it.

[Seventyniner]

Hey, with your skills at breaking down stats, I'm sure you could make a compelling argument for it.

After that first game against Dallas, Baynes had something like a -44 PER and was probably (statistically) the worst player to ever play in the league by light-years.

[mrjap2x]

Is this a serious question? They drafted their current starting point guard and their top two international prospects (or at least their top one and Hanga). That draft has the potential to be one of the best ever in a few years.
Was actually referring to guys linked with the spurs, considering that even parker was in trade humors getting a high lottery is possible and if it happened who were the guys the spurs are considering.

And "like" doesn't equal to "draft".

[Chinook]

Was actually referring to guys linked with the spurs, considering that even parker was in trade humors getting a high lottery is possible and if it happened who were the guys the spurs are considering.

And "like" doesn't equal to "draft".

Indeed. I misread your question. I apologize for that. I will say though that the Spurs obviously liked their first three picks, because they picked them when no one was expecting them to be off the board.

As for your actual question. I heard some Valanciunas links, as well as Tristan Thompson. Pop apparently liked Derrick Williams a lot. Really, though, it's hard to get a good read on whom the Spurs target each year. I don't think many could have predicted Leonard being the Spurs' target until the trade was announced.

[MannyIsGod]

Young ron artest? Bowen Jr? :lmao

Who's laughing now bitch? :lol

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Who's laughing now bitch? :lol

+1 Win

[tesseractive]

Who's laughing now bitch? :lol
Young Ron Artest minus the crazy is looking like a really prescient call. Well done. :tu

[100%duncan]

:lol

[mudyez]

good find!

[nkdlunch]

LOL

[lefty]

ROFLCOPTER

[lefty]

Spurs FO has their heads in a fox hole. Indiana stole Hill for practically nothing. The Spurs can't possibly be done making trades or the Spurs are looking five years down the line and canning the present.

Just pathetic!!!!
:lol

[Hoops Czar]

:lol

Spurstalk.... Whatever you say can and will be used against at anytime in the upcoming future

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 right, but lets not pretend that George Hill is some shlub that can't hold a candlestick to Kawhi.

Leonard O-rating 114, D-rating 99, WS/48 .166

Hill O-rating 117, D-rating 102, WS/48 .177

[ChumpDumper]

Spurstalk.... Whatever you say can and will be used against at anytime in the upcoming future

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 right, but lets not pretend that George Hill is some shlub that can't hold a candlestick to Kawhi.

Leonard O-rating 114, D-rating 99, WS/48 .166

Hill O-rating 117, D-rating 102, WS/48 .177Let's not pretend you didn't shit all over yourself in this thread.

[Buddy Holly]

Spurstalk.... Whatever you say can and will be used against at anytime in the upcoming future

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 right, but lets not pretend that George Hill is some shlub that can't hold a candlestick to Kawhi.

Leonard O-rating 114, D-rating 99, WS/48 .166

Hill O-rating 117, D-rating 102, WS/48 .177

Kawhi is the fourth option on the Spurs.

Kawhi usually guards the other teams best player and usually shuts them down.

Kawhi > Hill.

It's that simple.

You with all that egg on your face can spew all the numbers you want, that egg ain't coming off

[Hoops Czar]

Let's not pretend you didn't shit all over yourself in this thread.

Shitting all over yourself is something that's become second nature to you. I can handle one thread of distain.

[Hoops Czar]

Kawhi is the fourth option on the Spurs.

Kawhi usually guards the other teams best player and usually shuts them down.

Kawhi > Hill.

It's that simple.

You with all that egg on your face can spew all the numbers you want, that egg ain't coming off
Stats lie, great logic. Maybe you should take off your Spurs goggles before someone smacks you upside the head and knocks them off. Leonard is a 4th option because he's inconsistent on offense. It's even more puzzling that Pop sees him as a 4th option even with Ginobili continuing to struggle or maybe not. If he doesn't advance his offensive game to something more than canning open three's and transition dunks, you can just label him Kawhi Marion. And check your reading comprehension. I never said Kawhi wasn't better than Hill but thanks for pointing out the obvious Jimbo Jones.

[ChumpDumper]

Shitting all over yourself is something that's become second nature to you. I can handle one thread of distain.Really, give me an example of a basketball take of mine as awful as yours.

[Obstructed_View]

Really, give me an example of a basketball take of mine as awful as yours.

You have a basketball take?

[TampaDude]

Maybe KL and Hill will meet soon...if the Pacers can win Game 7 in Miami...meh, probably not...Heat in 7, then Spurs in 5.

[ChumpDumper]

You have a basketball take?Yes.

[Silent]

Bottom line , Pacers wouldnt be in the Play offs if it wasnt for hills contributions !

[dbreiden83080]

Both teams did well in that trade.. Spurs fans are quick to dismiss Hill but he fits in perfectly with the Pacers..

[TJastal]

Yes.

That sounds so convincing. Not.

[ChumpDumper]

That sounds so convincing. Not.Between you and Hoops Czar, I can't decide whose takes are worse. You both were terrible regarding Leonard.

[I. Hustle]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4281760/egg-to-face-o.gif

[TJastal]

Between you and Hoops Czar, I can't decide whose takes are worse. You both were terrible regarding Leonard.

Can't deny that, and my credibility took a huge hit with that (esp with the Singleton take, who's been nothing short of awful). Still rather have zero credibility than be a front office cheerleader afraid to offer criticism.

[I. Hustle]

Hoops Czar taking weiners to the dome.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/girl-getting-hit-in-the-face-with-hotdogs-gif.gif

[ChumpDumper]

Can't deny that, and my credibility took a huge hit with that (esp with the Singleton take, who's been nothing short of awful). Still rather have zero credibility than be a front office cheerleader afraid to offer criticism.I have, so your having zero credibility must be that much worse for you.

[TJastal]

I have, so your having zero credibility must be that much worse for you.

LOL no you don't. You latched onto every single concievable excuse when Splitter was in Pop's doghouse for 2+ years. You are a popsucker and don't pretend otherwise.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL no you don't. You latched onto every single concievable excuse when Splitter was in Pop's doghouse for 2+ years. You are a popsucker and don't pretend otherwise.I said exactly what the Spurs had to do to have Splitter and Duncan to play together. turns out I was right. The two players commented on their learning to play together recently. Posted in this very forum.

But since you brought up zero credibility and Splitter, let's see them combined in a classic post:
The guy will be a typical stiff in this league.. I think Aaron Gray and Sean Marks will have better and more distinguishable careers and that's even IF he decides to actually come to the nba.

[TJastal]

I said exactly what the Spurs had to do to have Splitter and Duncan to play together. turns out I was right. The two players commented on their learning to play together recently. Posted in this very forum.

But since you brought up zero credibility and Splitter, let's see them combined in a classic post:

So what did you say and when. I want a quote and a link. And not something posted yesterday. :lol

[jjktkk]

The guy will be a typical stiff in this league.. I think Aaron Gray and Sean Marks will have better and more distinguishable careers and that's even IF he decides to actually come to the nba.

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

So what did you say and when. I want a quote and a link. And not something posted yesterday. :lol
I think parking Duncan on the perimeter much of the time is going to facilitate being paired with both Splitter and Blair.We had a discussion about it in another thread.

You posted in it.

Don't you remember?

[TJastal]

We had a discussion about it in another thread.

You posted in it.

Don't you remember?

Good point on the spacing, Chumpy. I don't think anyone would have guessed that. I think you owe it to yourself to have a truffle for that nugget of wisdom. On spurstalk.

And.. um.. erm... and I think Duncan for the most part was already parked out on the perimeter during the 2+ years where Splitter watched from the bench while Pop started a 6'5" trash can with no knees and not much more brains. Oops, fail.

[ChumpDumper]

Good point on the spacing, Chumpy. I don't think anyone would have guessed that. I think you owe it to yourself to have a truffle for that nugget of wisdom. On spurstalk.

And.. um.. erm... and I think Duncan for the most part was already parked out on the perimeter during the 2+ years where Splitter watched from the bench while Pop started a 6'5" trash can with no knees and not much more brains. Oops, fail.I didn't say it was a revelation, it was merely an accurate prediction.

Your predictions on Splitter and Leonard though -- :lol -- you couldn't have been more wrong.

Do predictions like that make you question your own basketball IQ?

[TJastal]

I didn't say it was a revelation, it was merely an accurate prediction.

Your predictions on Splitter and Leonard though -- :lol -- you couldn't have been more wrong.

Do predictions like that make you question your own basketball IQ?

Ahh.. so you're saying Pop couldn't have implemented Splitter any sooner than he did in the way you "predict". Oh right... because you agreed with all 10000 excuses Pop made.

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Ahh.. so you're saying Pop couldn't have implemented Splitter any sooner than he did in the way you "predict". Oh right... because you agreed with all 10000 excuses Pop made.

:lmaoEh, Duncan and Splitter said all that needed to be said on the subject -- but I'm sure you think they are both full of shit. Obviously your take is superior to theirs, as you have demonstrated over the years with takes like yours on Splitter and Leonard.

[emoticon]

Nice try moving the goalposts though.

[Beaverfuzz]

Paul George

[TJastal]

Eh, Duncan and Splitter said all that needed to be said on the subject -- but I'm sure you think they are both full of shit. Obviously your take is superior to theirs, as you have demonstrated over the years with takes like yours on Splitter and Leonard.

[emoticon]

Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Eh... I wouldn't go so far as to say their full of shit. It's just media fluff, nothing more, nothing less. You'll have to do better to convince me that investing heavy minutes into a 6'5" guy with eroding knee tissue for 2+ years as the teams' starting center was superior to putting those same minutes into a legit sized big with no health issues who was showing raw potential in the limited minutes he was recieving. Doesn't really matter what I said about him back when he was playing in Europe, everyone (including me) saw the potential he had his first couple games a spur. But I know you will never bother to look up and find those quotes.

So go ahead.... put up your lame quote from 2008 or whatever... whine about goalposts and ad hominems...it's always the same song and dance with you.

[hater]

3 days to go :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Eh... I wouldn't go so far as to say their full of shit. It's just media fluff, nothing more, nothing less. They were direct quotes from Duncan and Splitter.

You are going so far as to say they are full of shit.
Doesn't really matter what I said about him back when he was playing in EuropeOf course it does.

Just like you said Leonard would be a bust before he ever played a game as a Spur.

You want it to not matter so badly because you were so stunningly wrong. Tough shit. Watch more than one YouTube before declaring someone a bust, scout.

[TJastal]

They were direct quotes from Duncan and Splitter.

You are going so far as to say they are full of shit.Of course it does.

Just like you said Leonard would be a bust before he ever played a game as a Spur.

You want it to not matter so badly because you were so stunningly wrong. Tough shit. Watch more than one YouTube before declaring someone a bust, scout.

Eh.., I'm not too upset with a few impromptu off the cuff speculations that didn't hit the mark. Those were first impressions, more or less.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh.., I'm not too upset with a few impromptu off the cuff speculations that didn't hit the mark. Those were first impressions, more or less.Eh, they were definitive statements judging the entire NBA careers of players you had never actually seen play basketball.

If you really wanted people to believe they were impromptu and off the cuff first impressions, you probably shouldn't have repeated them so loudly and so often.

lol Singleton

[TJastal]

Eh, they were definitive statements judging the entire NBA careers of players you had never actually seen play basketball.

If you really wanted people to believe they were impromptu and off the cuff first impressions, you probably shouldn't have repeated them so loudly and so often.

lol Singleton

"Nba careers".. try "european prospect" and "collegiate sophomore".

"Loudly".. Try investing in some sound proofing in your mom's basement. If you're still hearing me "loudly" you may even consider seeking some pychiatric care at the nearest facility.

[ChumpDumper]

"Nba careers".. try "european prospect" and "collegiate sophomore".You were giving definitive predictions about the NBA careers of both. What part of that do you not understand?


"Loudly".. Try investing in some sound proofing in your mom's basement. If you're still hearing me "loudly" you may even consider seeking some pychiatric care at the nearest facility.Figure of speech. You know what you did: continuously bitch. Man, you're having a lot of trouble with even the most basic concepts. Maybe you are really mentally challenged.

I'll apologize if you are. Just let me know.

[TJastal]

You were giving definitive predictions about the NBA careers of both. What part of that do you not understand?

Figure of speech. You know what you did: continuously bitch. Man, you're having a lot of trouble with even the most basic concepts. Maybe you are really mentally challenged.

I'll apologize if you are. Just let me know.

I don't agree with "defenitive predictions". My point was Leonard and Splitter were both raw recruits, one across the sea and the other barely out of high school. It's hard for me to get too butthurt over it, sorry.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't agree with "defenitive predictions". My point was Leonard and Splitter were both raw recruits, one across the sea and the other barely out of high school. It's hard for me to get too butthurt over it, sorry.Shouldn't have predicted so definitively then:
Do you have reading / comprehension problems?

I said the spurs should have used Parker to trade up in the draft to one of the several lottery teams who were willing to give up their 1st rounder + a decent player in return for Parker. Until the spurs floated Richard Jefferson into the equation of course, which quickly ended all talks.

Then easily selected Singleton (who dropped to #17 or 18 I believe), a guy who will be a better player than Leonard and a player the spurs would have been able to plug into the starting lineup quickly in Jefferson's place.

Spurs would have had a revamped starting lineup, depending on what PF/C they could have landed for Parker. No doubt they could have landed PF Jason Thompson, who is/was being shopped around the league by the kings, and fits the mold of a quality young athletic player who could have been plugged in next to Tim Duncan in the starting lineup.

These moves would have given the spurs a tremendous boost of youth and athleticism to their starting lineup IMO.

Hill
Manu
Singleton
Thompson
Duncan

Instead, now they are stuck with the french poodle, a lottery bust in Leonard, and no quality PF to help Tim Duncan.

The guy will be a typical stiff in this league.. I think Aaron Gray and Sean Marks will have better and more distinguishable careers and that's even IF he decides to actually come to the nba.And you repeated your "off-the-cuff" and "impromptu" "first impression" of Leonard two weeks later.
Leonard is just a bad overall fit for the spurs IMO. Pop has had a great track record of drafting the past decade but this one is going to be a major bust. And considering that they surrendered Hill in order to draft this bust really makes it even more sad.

My guess is if Leonard doesn't learn to shoot an nba 3pt, he'll be riding alot of pine behind Jefferson next year. No chance he will crack the starting lineup. And on the off-chance that he does develop a respectable 3 pt shot, his one strength (rebounding), will be wasted in the spurs' system. Singleton would have been 5X better as a fit. Better transition player, better defensive player (by far), better shooter, ... fuck.But please, continue dedicating several more posts to the notion you don't care about what you said.

[apalisoc_9]

BUMP

[exstatic]

TJ with the bads, per usual.

[RD2191]

How does this help the Spurs win now or rebuild
:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

BUMP

[RD2191]

Russo21 with an epic meltdown.

[RD2191]

Hoops Czar taking weiners to the dome.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/girl-getting-hit-in-the-face-with-hotdogs-gif.gif

Rofl

[HI-FI]

wow, DPG was way off. :lol

[spurraider21]

Chump is shit. He simply stated facts
yeah i really hate it when people do that :lmao

[FkLA]

yeah i really hate it when people do that :lmao

Doesn't make sense to give him props for simply stating obvious things. He didn't really make a prediction tbh.

[ElNono]

Props to ElNoNo. He correctly, and immediately, identified the essential elements of the trade and patiently tried to explain them to those that didn't understand. Perhaps not to great effect, but the effort was there.

missed this post like 2 years ago... :lol

Thanks Mel :toast

[ChumpDumper]

Doesn't make sense to give him props for simply stating obvious things. He didn't really make a prediction tbh.Why would I have made a prediction about Leonard when I hadn't seen him play enough at the time of the draft?

I mean, that didn't stop others from making the stupidest predictions in the history of ST -- but why should I?

[FkLA]

Nothing wrong with it I guess, just don't see why you would deserve props for that.

Disagree. If someone tells me a 19 year old rookie won't be able to have the same impact as an established, solid 30 mpg player I'd think that was pretty reasonable.

[ChumpDumper]

Nothing wrong with it I guess, just don't see why you would deserve props for that.I don't see why you have to be defensive about what someone says about me.


Disagree. If someone tells me a 19 year old rookie won't be able to have the same impact as an established, solid 30 mpg player I'd think that was pretty reasonable.What if that player was Kevin Durant and that person just hadn't watched him play?

Would you look stupid for automatically agreeing with him?

[Mel_13]

missed this post like 2 years ago... :lol

Thanks Mel :toast

:toast

You, sir, have way more patience than me.

[Brazil]

Don't know why they took Leonard over Singleton. Anyone have any idea?

:lol nice gem in dat thread

[Dex]

:lmao :lmao :lmao Chris Singleton

[baseline bum]

Crap, lol at me thinking he was an undersized PF; I should never doubt RC on a draft pick. Manny was dead-on in this thread.

[will_spurs]

Just imagine if we had drafted Kenneth Faried, though...

[Budkin]

Still can't believe we traded away Paul George!

[TVI]

Still can't believe we traded away Paul George!
Never gets old! :rollin

[Splits]

Damn, TJastal with the EPIC bads. EPIC fail.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kid-falls-in-puddle-gif.gif

[DPG21920]

Unless the Spurs move RJ, this guy likely won't have a chance to do anything
Hill was a very good rotation player. I'm not against trading Hill, but why for this?

In fairness to me, despite being somewhat wrong, one of the biggest reasons I didn't like the trade was because of RJ. They did in fact trade him which then opened up opportunity.

[heyheymymy]

In fairness to me, despite being somewhat wrong, one of the biggest reasons I didn't like the trade was because of RJ. They did in fact trade him which then opened up opportunity.

yeah i don't know why you're getting dashed for that take, it really wasn't some big claim or doubt. hindsight is 20/20, but we still had RJ back then, and the move didn't make sense 100% till you saw the bigger picture later on.