Why won't God heal amputees?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, I went there.

Any takers?

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah, I went there.

Any takers?
Which God?

[RandomGuy]

Which God?

Any of them. Take your pick.

If prayers to any given diety are supposed to be answered occasionally, why have no amputees been healed?

[scott]

He works in mysterious ways.

[Wild Cobra]

Any of them. Take your pick.

If prayers to any given diety are supposed to be answered occasionally, why have no amputees been healed?
Read your mythology. If a God grants a favor to a mortal, they require some very difficult payment in return.

[Wild Cobra]

He works in mysterious ways.
God is a title. Not a name.

Do you mean Jehovah?

[Warlord23]

Who can know the mind of God?

[DarrinS]

Do liberal Christians and Jews hate themselves?

Any takers?

[scott]

God is a title. Not a name.

Do you mean Jehovah?

You're a fucking idiot.

[Winehole23]

Is he required to?

[Wild Cobra]

You're a fucking idiot.
I see.

Do you mean Zeus? Are Christians the only ones to have a God?

[boutons_deux]

The universe follows rules. Spontaneous generation of mammals' lost limbs ain't in the program.

[scott]

I see.

Do you mean Zeus? Are Christians the only ones to have a God?

No, I mean you are a fucking idiot and it's unrelated to an deity.

[LnGrrrR]

You'll never win this argument RG, and here's why.

God does something good -> God loves us! See how he gives us good things!
God does something bad -> God loves us! We just can't understand his mysterious ways!

[Wild Cobra]

No, I mean you are a fucking idiot and it's unrelated to an deity.

Why won't God heal amputees?
Really...

Please elaborate.

[Blake]

You're a fucking idiot.

[Stringer_Bell]

If God healed one amputee, then he'd have to heal them all. Let's do away with the entitlement system in the Bible, it's simply too taxing on God's magic power supply.

[baseline bum]

Why is no one bringing up God's sociopathic fits? It's right there in the bible, plain as day. His parents did a lousy job.

[RandomGuy]

God is a title. Not a name.

Do you mean Jehovah?

Sure, I guess.

If you like, because Bible searches are easy:

Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.


Matthew 18:19:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.




Seems to be a pretty explicit promise to answer prayers. No sacrifice needed.

[RandomGuy]

If My servants ask you about Me, I am near. I answer the call of the caller when he calls on Me.
They should therefore respond to Me and believe in Me so that hopefully they will be rightly guided.
(Surat al-Baqara: 186)
Koran

[mingus]

until you can prove there's no God, i'll stick to my personal belief that he exists. good luck.

[RandomGuy]

Query: Does god answer Prayer? Does any one know how to pray right? I heard that god does not answer my Prayers because I do not pray the right way... what is the right way?


Vijay Kumar:
Before praying we need to understand the meaning of the word Prayer. What does praying mean in every Religion... are Prayers different for different Religions. Is that for one a Prayer has one meaning and different for the other?

Praying to God Almighty carries equal meaning for all. God never differentiates! In praying we ask of God for something. Even if we do not seek material benefits for self we may ask for the welfare of others. We may not ask God something for us but for the benefit of others. Still, it is necessary that our Prayers get answered in order to help one.

Again, seems fairly straightforward if a bit like an ATM or something that the Bible/Koran seems to promise.

Yet none of them have healed any amputee.

Seems like whoever the creator is or is not, amputees are given the short shrift.

Cancer patients sometimes get their prayers answered, same with other diseases.

Why not with amputees?

[mingus]

why do you care about something so much that doesn't exist?

[RandomGuy]

until you can prove there's no God, i'll stick to my personal belief that he exists. good luck.

I'm not trying exactly to prove one way or the other.

I would just like to know why God is insane/evil/cruel.

(edit)

I have come to believe God doesn't really exist, I just want someone to try explaining the fucked up shit going on in the world.

[Wild Cobra]

Sure, I guess.

If you like, because Bible searches are easy:

Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.


Matthew 18:19:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.




Seems to be a pretty explicit promise to answer prayers. No sacrifice needed.
I see...

The power of delusional faith, or is it misinterpretation to English, in the King James version, commissioned by a King to be used by a king to control the masses?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

until you can prove there's no God, i'll stick to my personal belief that he exists. good luck.
until you can prove there's no flying spaghetti monster, I'll stick to my personal beliefs that one exists. Good luck.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not trying exactly to prove one way or the other.

I would just like to know why God is insane/evil/cruel.
Maybe God's powers have limits. Maybe hardships in life are tests we don't understand. Spend a little time, and I'm sure you can think of other reasons.

[baseline bum]

I'm not trying exactly to prove one way or the other.

I would just like to know why God is insane/evil/cruel.

Sociopaths often have abusive parents tbh.

[cantthinkofanything]

I'm not trying exactly to prove one way or the other.

I would just like to know why God is insane/evil/cruel.

Have you considered that maybe there is also someone praying that the amputee does not grow his limb back?

[RandomGuy]

I see...

The power of delusional faith, or is it misinterpretation to English, in the King James version, commissioned by a King to be used by a king to control the masses?

Beats me, as it is not my book in either event. I can only go by what the faithful tell me.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe God's powers have limits. Maybe hardships in life are tests we don't understand. Spend a little time, and I'm sure you can think of other reasons.

Dude created the universe, an event that took more energy than we can wrap our primitive little brains around.

If all the books about God(s) are to be believed, surely a finger is small potatoes.

[RandomGuy]

Have you considered that maybe there is also someone praying that the amputee does not grow his limb back?

Possibly, I guess. That would mean there would have to be one such person for each person praying for healing.

Seems unlikely to me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am going to say because making shit up never healed a physical injury like a missing limb. Cannot get something from nothing.

[cantthinkofanything]

Possibly, I guess. That would mean there would have to be one such person for each person praying for healing.

Seems unlikely to me.

More likely a large group of people praying that no amputees grow their limbs back. So you have one amputee praying for a new limb more than offset by a group praying that amputees, collectively and individually, will not re grow limbs.

[cantthinkofanything]

I am going to say because making shit up never healed a physical injury like a missing limb. Cannot get something from nothing.

stupid theory. you wouldn't be starting with nothing. you'd be starting with the part of the body left after the amputation.

[Drachen]

RG was bored today.

[RandomGuy]

More likely a large group of people praying that no amputees grow their limbs back. So you have one amputee praying for a new limb more than offset by a group praying that amputees, collectively and individually, will not re grow limbs.

More likely unicorns will come flying out from between my buttocks humming Beethoven's Ode to Joy whilst pooping ice cream. I guess it is possible, but don't see it as meeting a bare common sense test.

Unless of course you know of some such active group?

In any event, it would take similar groups to pray to God for every kind of collective evil on the planet. I don't see that as possible at all.

[RandomGuy]

RG was bored today.

A bit. Gotta get back to work. Time's up.

[cantthinkofanything]

In any event, it would take similar groups to pray to God for every kind of collective evil on the planet. I don't see that as possible at all.

I don't know. People be crazy.

[Warlord23]

More likely a large group of people praying that no amputees grow their limbs back. So you have one amputee praying for a new limb more than offset by a group praying that amputees, collectively and individually, will not re grow limbs.

The large group of people praying that no amputees are healed will have their prayers diluted across the entire population of amputees, whereas a person and his family/friends will be praying specifically for that person.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

stupid theory. you wouldn't be starting with nothing. you'd be starting with the part of the body left after the amputation.

what if it was dissolved in acid first? this discussion is asinine.

Why doesn't the dollar fairy bring me my fucking billions is what i want to know.

[cantthinkofanything]

The large group of people praying that no amputees are healed will have their prayers diluted across the entire population of amputees, whereas a person and his family/friends will be praying specifically for that person.

wrong.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

wrong.

:lol

[Blake]

I see...

The power of delusional faith, or is it misinterpretation to English, in the King James version, commissioned by a King to be used by a king to control the masses?

you have no clue what you are talking about

[Drachen]

When I was a child, I prayed that the spurs would win the championship in each respective year..... Now I am an atheist.

[EVAY]

If God healed one amputee, then he'd have to heal them all. Let's do away with the entitlement system in the Bible, it's simply too taxing on God's magic power supply.

:lol:lol:lol:toast

[ElNono]

If God healed one amputee, then he'd have to heal them all. Let's do away with the entitlement system in the Bible, it's simply too taxing on God's magic power supply.

Why can't God borrow magic power supply from the Chinese? Does he has an actually working debt-ceiling?

[Gutter92]

until you can prove there's no God, i'll stick to my personal belief that he exists. good luck.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Logic and religion clearly don't go hand in hand.

[AFBlue]

Not that this has anything to do with politics, but I'll bite. God's path for each of us is different, but we all go through tests of character and tests of faith at one point or another. Some give up on themselves and God, while others persevere and grow through these tests.

In other words, if you're an amputee it's your pre-ordained path and your choice is to succumb to it or embrace it and persevere. By the way, you can call me delusional, but I do believe that God has the power to heal the sick, bring the dead back to life and even give an amputee their appendage back. His choice to perform a miracle or not is based on what He has pre-determined for you.

This is honestly a weak question if you're bringing in the faith argument though. I would've gone with...why does God allow innocent young boys and girls to suffer through physical or sexual abuse and do nothing?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao coming up with bullshit like "tests of character" to make an excuse for when god fucks someone over

[AFBlue]

:lmao coming up with bullshit like "tests of character" to make an excuse for when god fucks someone over

I guess you failed your test.

[ElNono]

:lmao coming up with bullshit like "tests of character" to make an excuse for when god fucks someone over

:lol

[ElNono]

So Neo never really choose to take the red pill or the blue pill... it was all scripted? :depressed

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh god is a pretty big asshole if he does stuff like cause people to lose arm(s)/leg(s) to test their faith.

He's also pretty stupid tbh. Healing an amputee and making his existence indisputable would be a much easier way to get people to believe.

[Phenomanul]

You are seriously bored...

But you know I'll bite every now and then... :lol

Two reasons I can think of (despite the fact that your question is flawed in the sense that GOD is more than capable of supernaturally restoring our bodies. There are a couple of accounts in the Bible where HE has restored 'amputees' (i.e. the ear of the guard that came to arrest Him) as well as cripples and leppers, to full corporal health etc... that you don't believe it, is another matter entirely - but we already knew that)...

Anyways, 1) GOD is more concerned about the destiny of our eternal spirit. That is what separates us from the animals. Our spirit was given to us in the image of GOD Himself... that part of us is immortal.

Once our imperfect physical bodies die... they decay and forever return to the earth...

Our glorified 'bodies' however, will live on forever... Any amount of physical suffering endured here on earth hence, is vastly dwarfed in the context of eternity (and infintessimally insignificant)...

Frankly and biblically speaking, our physical well-being is not GOD's top priority - despite our selfish wishes to the contrary.

2) GOD doesn't work to appease the mocking faithless. Even while HE may actually heal many among us, many still don't believe. So now you require even more proof? That's not how it works...

Call me delusional, hack away as usual, proceed with your regular sarcasm... whatever...

Peace out..!

Edit: bolded for emphasis of main counterpoint.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did God stop doing all those cool parlor tricks?

He could do just one amputee healing, get it on YouTube and wham! Millions of new believers.

God needs a new media consultant. I can't even friend him on Facebook.

[Phenomanul]

Tbh god is a pretty big asshole if he does stuff like cause people to lose arm(s)/leg(s) to test their faith.

He's also pretty stupid tbh. Healing an amputee and making his existence indisputable would be a much easier way to get people to believe.

If creating everything that IS, the known universe, LIFE, isn't enough to impress you what makes you think a restored amputee would change your mind...? You'd just shrug it off as some unexplained science, call it a lie, question it to death... it wouldn't change a thing...

Fact is many here simply look for continual affirmation that their world view is the correct one...

You've already made up your mind on the GOD-question... nothing anyone says or does will change that... not even a restored amputee...

meh...

[ElNono]

Tbh god is a pretty big asshole if he does stuff like cause people to lose arm(s)/leg(s) to test their faith.

He's also pretty stupid tbh. Healing an amputee and making his existence indisputable would be a much easier way to get people to believe.

You keep being an asshole... don't come crying here when you lose a leg...

[ChumpDumper]

If creating everything that IS, the known universe, LIFE, isn't enough to impress you what makes you think a restored amputee would change your mind...? You'd just shrug it off as some unexplained science, call it a lie, question it to death... it wouldn't change a thing...

Fact is many here simply look for continual affirmation that their world view is the correct one...

You've already made up your mind on the GOD-question... nothing anyone says or does will change that... not even a restored amputee...

meh...A restored amputee would pretty much do it for me.

[silverblk mystix]

God...is a word...a concept....something that humans made up for varying reasons....

Humans....or stupid humans to be precise...argue and kill each other over the word "GOD"...
and since no human being on the planet has ever truly seen this "GOD" with their own eyes and can prove it...they depend on other humans who "say" they know "GOD" as a means to describe ..."god"...

In humans minds an amputee needs "healing" because in YOUR mind...an amputee is "less than" other humans...

I would surmise that this "amputee" needs less "healing" than you do because you sound like an "asshole" to me....

I would suggest a better question would be ....

Is there any way that any amount of healing could ever "heal" the OP from being such a huge asshole?

[ChumpDumper]

When you put "asshole" in quotes, do you mean something else?

[baseline bum]

I do agree that our spirit is made in god's image. To be more technical, there is precisely one map from the empty set into the empty set: namely, the one with empty graph. Since god fails to exist, we can take god = empty set. Human spirit is then the image of god under this map; namely, the empty set.

[ElNono]

When you put "asshole" in quotes, do you mean something else?

:lol

[ElNono]

In humans minds an amputee needs "healing" because in YOUR mind...an amputee is "less than" other humans...

technically speaking, an amputee does indeed have "less than" a non-amputee...

[cantthinkofanything]

When you put "asshole" in quotes, do you mean something else?

at least "asshole" can have a non-literal meaning. I'm more confused about amputee being in quotes.

[silverblk mystix]

at least "asshole" can have a non-literal meaning. I'm more confused about amputee being in quotes.

You were born confused....shut the fuck up....

[baseline bum]

Honestly, if god had the ability to heal amputees then why is he always asking for money? Doesn't he know how valuable this service would be to the general public and how much he could raise from it? Especially now that it couldn't be called a pre-existing condition.

[DarrinS]

Why haven't we evolved to regenerate limbs? Seems like that would be an evolutionary advantage.

[ElNono]

Why haven't we evolved to regenerate limbs? Seems like that would be an evolutionary advantage.

We're only humans... what's his excuse?

[ChumpDumper]

Why haven't we evolved to regenerate limbs? Seems like that would be an evolutionary advantage.Why didn't God make you an alpha male?

[DarrinS]

Well he did invent a scrotum so that ChumpDumper's chin won't get cold.

[Drachen]

Why haven't we evolved to regenerate limbs? Seems like that would be an evolutionary advantage.

It would seem that there would have to be a recognized deficiency related to the environment. So I have to ask DarrinS, What percentage of "amputees" 10,000 years ago survived long enough to reproduce. Of that percentage, what percentage of their offspring also became amputees, then reproduced. Of that group what percentage of THEIR offspring became amputees, then reproduced, and so on until today.

[ChumpDumper]

Well he did invent a scrotum so that ChumpDumper's chin won't get cold.Is that in your scriptures? Did God give you that insult to use when you are feeling low?

[DarrinS]

Is that in your scriptures? Did God give you that insult to use when you are feeling low?

I'm not a religious person, but it appears that you cast the first stone. I can always count on you to make a random, snarky reply to ANYTHING I post.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not a religious person, but it appears that you cast the first stone. I can always count on you to make a random, snarky reply to ANYTHING I post.Feel free to raise your game.

[LnGrrrR]

until you can prove there's no God, i'll stick to my personal belief that he exists. good luck.

No one's saying you have to stop believing. No one can prove there's no God, anymore than you can prove there's no Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[LnGrrrR]

until you can prove there's no flying spaghetti monster, I'll stick to my personal beliefs that one exists. Good luck.

Should've read through the thread :lol

[Drachen]

Tbh god is a pretty big asshole if he does stuff like cause people to lose arm(s)/leg(s) to test their faith.

He's also pretty stupid tbh. Healing an amputee and making his existence indisputable would be a much easier way to get people to believe.

read the book of Job

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why did God stop doing all those cool parlor tricks?

He could do just one amputee healing, get it on YouTube and wham! Millions of new believers.

God needs a new media consultant. I can't even friend him on Facebook.
Egg fucking zactly.


I've scoffed god for pretty much my entire life. If god were to grow someone's leg back and stream it online, I'd become an instant believer, go to Church every Sunday, and donate 10% of my income for the rest of my life.

God must not want believers.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Frankly and biblically speaking, our physical well-being is not GOD's top priority
Well, if god has almighty power and is capable of improving everyone's physical well being but chooses not to, he's kind of an asshole.

I know if I had the power to heal an amputee in the blink of an eye, I'd schedule daily heeling sessions free of charge.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Btw this isn't some random question that RandomGuy just made up out of the blue, it's been around for years and there hasn't been a logically sensible answer for it.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why haven't we evolved to regenerate limbs?
Maybe humans haven't, but plenty of other species have evolved with the ability to regenerate limbs.

Ot_-rqZVz7Y

[LnGrrrR]

Dok, what you're failing to realize is that if God appeared, then you would just KNOW, and he requires faith.

Now sure, he appeared in the past, but that was different, because he had to get the ball rolling.

So, God wants you to not know, but believe anyways, unless you lived when he was pretty active, in which case he'd make himself known through killing you or doing something rather not nice. See? Nice and simple.

[redzero]

God is too busy not feeding the poor to heal amputees.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol I wish I could operate like god when it comes to my job

"Hey boss, if I were to actually just show up to work and do what you ask, then you would KNOW I deserve my next paycheck. I require faith, meaning I expect to be paid even if I never show up to work and you have no reason to think I'm gonna get the work done!"

[baseline bum]

I don't get it; if you're buying a used car and the salesman tells you to trust him, it's a good car, no need for a test drive, just buy now, no one would go for it. But then a fat fuck gets up at the pulpit and demands 10% of your income for you to buy your ticket to heaven and everything's a-ok.

[DarrinS]

Why are atheist so much less charitable than religious people?

[ChumpDumper]

Why are atheist so much less charitable than religious people?You're not religious.

Why are you not charitable?

[baseline bum]

Because they don't get shaken down every Sunday?

[redzero]

Why is God so less charitable than everybody on earth?

I gave a bum three dollars once. That's three more dollars than God has ever given anybody.

[redzero]

Oh, I forgot--God's hands are full helping athletes win games. He doesn't have time to help the needy.

[DarrinS]

You're not religious.

Why are you not charitable?

I'm not religious per se, but I'm not an atheist.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not religious per se, but I'm not an atheist.Are you saying you are more charitable than the religious?

[DarrinS]

Are you saying you are more charitable than the religious?

I'm probably less generous

[ChumpDumper]

I'm probably less generousWhy?

[mingus]

You'd have to be a depressing person to be on your deathbed and not hope there's
some life afterward. I would feel sorry for you. It'd show you had a lame life.

[redzero]

Too bad wishing for something to be true doesn't make it true. One has to be a really sad person to have to lie to themselves constantly just so they can give their lives meaning.

[baseline bum]

LOL, might as well hope for 100 more years, a Ferrari, and a big tittied 19 year-old Brazilian nurse to ride shotgun while you're at it.

[ChumpDumper]

You'd have to be a depressing person to be on your deathbed and not hope there's not some life afterward. I would feel sorry for you. It'd show you had a lame life.So, fear should motivate our faith.

You have a lame God.

[DarrinS]

So, fear should motivate our faith.

You have a lame God.

Nothing about fear in his post. Reading fail.

[ChumpDumper]

Nothing about fear in his post. Reading fail.The implication is quite clear.

Understanding fail.

[baseline bum]

How delusional would one have to be on his deathbed to think he'd survive his own death?

[mingus]

Is that what I said, 60,000?

[redzero]

So Darrin, how come God is less charitable than humans?

[RandomGuy]

Not that this has anything to do with politics, but I'll bite. God's path for each of us is different, but we all go through tests of character and tests of faith at one point or another. Some give up on themselves and God, while others persevere and grow through these tests.

In other words, if you're an amputee it's your pre-ordained path and your choice is to succumb to it or embrace it and persevere. By the way, you can call me delusional, but I do believe that God has the power to heal the sick, bring the dead back to life and even give an amputee their appendage back. His choice to perform a miracle or not is based on what He has pre-determined for you.

This is honestly a weak question if you're bringing in the faith argument though. I would've gone with...why does God allow innocent young boys and girls to suffer through physical or sexual abuse and do nothing?

God is credited with healing the sick all the time.

Why are amputees different?

I agree it is a fairly mild one, but hardly a weak point. It has rather large implications.

Your question speaks to the same thing.

Why would a God answer all sorts of prayers but leave those of the tortured and abused and everything else alone?

[ChumpDumper]

Is that what I said, 60,000?Sure.

[DarrinS]

Too bad wishing for something to be true doesn't make it true. One has to be a really sad person to have to lie to themselves constantly just so they can give their lives meaning.

Actually, believing that how you live your life matters gives it meaning by definition, no. It's the atheist who must think their lives meaningless.

[mingus]

Too bad wishing for something to be true doesn't make it true. One has to be a really sad person to have to lie to themselves constantly just so they can give their lives meaning.

You're not an athiest though if you're wishing for an afterlife. You wouldn't be considering the possibility or hoping of such implausible matters. Still waiting for your proof God doesn't exist though. You'd need it to support your claims. Still waiting on that.

[baseline bum]

You're not an athiest though if you're wishing for an afterlife. You wouldn't be considering the possibility or hoping of such implausible matters. Still waiting for your proof God doesn't exist though. You'd need it to support your claims. Still waiting on that.

You're really confused here. You're really putting belief on par with wishing on a star?

[mingus]

I just think it'd be a silly waste of time for an athiest to wish for an afterlife on their deathbed. Thats all I'm saying.

[RandomGuy]

You are seriously bored...

But you know I'll bite every now and then... :lol

Two reasons I can think of (despite the fact that your question is flawed in the sense that GOD is more than capable of supernaturally restoring our bodies. There are a couple of accounts in the Bible where HE has restored 'amputees' (i.e. the ear of the guard that came to arrest Him) as well as cripples and leppers, to full corporal health etc... that you don't believe it, is another matter entirely - but we already knew that)...

Anyways, 1) GOD is more concerned about the destiny of our eternal spirit. That is what separates us from the animals. Our spirit was given to us in the image of GOD Himself... that part of us is immortal.

Once our imperfect physical bodies die... they decay and forever return to the earth...

Our glorified 'bodies' however, will live on forever... Any amount of physical suffering endured here on earth hence, is vastly dwarfed in the context of eternity (and infintessimally insignificant)...

Frankly and biblically speaking, our physical well-being is not GOD's top priority - despite our selfish wishes to the contrary.

2) GOD doesn't work to appease the mocking faithless. Even while HE may actually heal many among us, many still don't believe. So now you require even more proof? That's not how it works...

Call me delusional, hack away as usual, proceed with your regular sarcasm... whatever...

Peace out..!

Edit: bolded for emphasis of main counterpoint.

I don't need sarcasm when I have the truth.

Neither do I have to call you names.

If God is really concerned about our eternal spirit, why did he choose to reveal His word to some backwater tribe of goat herders, when the most populous area of the Earth at the time was in China and India?

Would it not have been more effective at saving souls if your Message reached out to many many people, and/or people that were more literate to boot?

Why has God ceased healing amputees? A couple instances in the Bible don't really cut it for modern people who have not seen it, as has been pointed out.

If God is really interested in saving souls, then it seems to me God is doing a pretty bad job, as less than 1/7th of the humans God has chosen to create believe in what the Bible says is God's son, and the only way into heaven.

Quite frankly, I find it a bit more than suspicious that the miracles of the type described in the Bible and so forth seem to have vanished with the advance of scientific knowledge. Oddly enough that is consistant with the theory that the bible is simply some primitive people's attempt at explaining the world around them, because they had no other explanation.

[baseline bum]

Wishing for an afterlife is a silly waste of time for anyone, deathbed or not.

[mingus]

Why?

[RandomGuy]

You're really confused here. You're really putting belief on par with wishing on a star?

I would.

There is about as much evidence for God answering prayers as for wishes on stars.

[ChumpDumper]

I just think it'd be a silly waste of time for an athiest to wish for an afterlife on their deathbed. Thats all I'm saying.If they believe on their deathbed, they get saved.

I didn't make the rules.

[RandomGuy]

Actually, believing that how you live your life matters gives it meaning by definition, no. It's the atheist who must think their lives meaningless.

I haven't read anything written by an atheist that states this. If they "must" think this, they seem to be keeping it a well-kept secret.

or

You are, yet again, making shit up for whatever reason. I tend to think because it is emotionally appealing to you to believe things like this.

Given your track record, I would give more credence to the latter.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, believing that how you live your life matters gives it meaning by definition, no. It's the atheist who must think their lives meaningless.Wow, that's a stunning amount of fail.

[baseline bum]

I would.

There is about as much evidence for God answering prayers as for wishes on stars.

In that sense I agree, but that's not how I meant it. If you break down Mingus' statement it is essentially

If you want an afterlife, then you believe in a god (you cannot be an atheist).

Then the contrapositive would be
If you don't believe in a god, then you don't want an afterlife.

It is equivalent to saying
If you don't believe you will win the lottery, then you don't want to win the lottery.

[DarrinS]

If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?

[baseline bum]

If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?

This is a horrible strawman even for you.

[mingus]

In that sense I agree, but that's not how I meant it. If you break down Mingus' statement it is essentially

If you want an afterlife, then you believe in a god (you cannot be an atheist).

Then the contrapositive would be
If you don't believe in a god, then you don't want an afterlife.

It is equivalent to saying
If you don't believe you will win the lottery, then you don't want to win the lottery.

i don't think you have to believe in God to hope for an afterlife. that's not what i intended to say. i'm saying a so-called athiest wouldn't even consider an afterlife plausible. so why hope for it?

[DarrinS]

I haven't read anything written by an atheist that states this. If they "must" think this, they seem to be keeping it a well-kept secret.

or

You are, yet again, making shit up for whatever reason. I tend to think because it is emotionally appealing to you to believe things like this.

Given your track record, I would give more credence to the latter.

Well, you spend a lot of your time trying to save humanity from plant food. Why should you care what happens to all the soulless humans after your biology fails you?

[redzero]

You're not an athiest though if you're wishing for an afterlife. You wouldn't be considering the possibility or hoping of such implausible matters.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.


Still waiting for your proof God doesn't exist though.[/youtube]

Still waiting on your proof that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. If you can't provide any, you must convert at once.

:lol using "you can't prove he doesn't exist!" as an argument

[quote]You'd need it to support your claims.

What claims are you talking about?


Actually, believing that how you live your life matters gives it meaning by definition, no.

One lying to themself to give their life meaning is sad.


It's the atheist who must think their lives meaningless.

Uh, no. Meaning in life depends entirely on the person.


If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?

Humans give actions labels. Nothing is objectively wrong when it comes to morals.

[DarrinS]

This is a horrible strawman even for you.

Well, where do our morals come from? Why is something "good" vs "bad"?

[RandomGuy]

If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?

Because human beings are granted an innate sense of right and wrong, and the ability to think about ethics and such things.

You seem to be confusing nihilism with atheism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Get reading.

[RandomGuy]

Well, you spend a lot of your time trying to save humanity from plant food. Why should you care what happens to all the soulless humans after your biology fails you?

Because that is what I believe is the right and moral thing to do.

Just as I believe that lying or deliberately misleading people to make them think your point of view is superior to others is wrong.

[baseline bum]

i don't think you have to believe in God to hope for an afterlife. that's not what i intended to say. i'm saying a so-called athiest wouldn't even consider an afterlife plausible. so why hope for it?

Your definition of atheist is a bit off. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, not someone who is 110% convinced there can be no such thing. Atheism isn't some kind of polar opposite to an absolutely certain belief that Jesus, Jehova, and company are going to save one's soul.

[mingus]

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

[quote]Still waiting for your proof God doesn't exist though.[/youtube]

Still waiting on your proof that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. If you can't provide any, you must convert at once.

:lol using "you can't prove he doesn't exist!" as an argument



What claims are you talking about?



One lying to themself to give their life meaning is sad.



Uh, no. Meaning in life depends entirely on the person.



Humans give actions labels. Nothing is objectively wrong when it comes to morals.

you're making an evidence based claim. mine is faith. i don't have to prove shit to you. you do. now if you had said "i believe there is no God" that would've been logical. but you're too emotional on this subject to let logic get in the way.

[DarrinS]

Because human beings are granted an innate sense of right and wrong, and the ability to think about ethics and such things.

You seem to be confusing nihilism with atheism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Get reading.

Innate sense. Hmmm. Probably why those crazy bible bangers started the abolitionist movement.

Honestly, I'm not a religious person, but why do religious people bother you so much?

[mingus]

Your definition of atheist is a bit off. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, not someone who is 110% convinced there can be no such thing. Atheism isn't some kind of polar opposite to an absolutely certain belief that Jesus, Jehova, and company are going to save one's soul.

the way i understood it was they give no contemplation to such outlandish, fantastical beliefs that an afterlife exists because as redzero said it's flying spaghetti to them.

[Halberto]

I'm atheist, and I don't need a 2000 year old book to explain morality to me. Stop making assumptions Darrin, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. If anything, the thought of no afterlife drives me to appreciate my life and the lives of others 100x more.

[DarrinS]

Because that is what I believe is the right and moral thing to do.

Just as I believe that lying or deliberately misleading people to make them think your point of view is superior to others is wrong.

Where have I lied?

[DarrinS]

I'm atheist, and I don't need a 2000 year old book to explain morality to me. Stop making assumptions Darrin, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. If anything, the thought of no afterlife drives me to appreciate my life and the lives of others 100x more.

Why not rape and pillage (see Occupy movement). You're only a piece of meat after all.

[Halberto]

Because I don't have the urge to hurt others.... is that something religion limits for you?

[RandomGuy]

Where have I lied?

Pick just about any AGW thread.

I define lying as rather deliberately and systematically telling things that are half-true.

Once or twice and it can be chalked up to simple omissions or mistakes.

Once half-truths and the concealing of information become a pattern that definitely becomes lying, as it is a deliberate attempt to mislead, just as if you make shit up out of whole cloth.

[baseline bum]

the way i understood it was they give no contemplation to such outlandish, fantastical beliefs that an afterlife exists because as redzero said it's flying spaghetti to them.

The Christian tradition being right is equivalent to flying spaghetti: just a complete shot in the dark with no kind of evidence, much less proof, to illuminate the way.

[mingus]

The Christian tradition being right is equivalent to flying spaghetti: just a complete shot in the dark with no kind of evidence, much less proof, to illuminate the way.

where have i said anything about christianity? i'm talking about theists. i've not mentioned any specific religion.

[redzero]

you're making an evidence based claim.

What claim am I making?


mine is faith.

i.e. logic doesn't apply


i don't have to prove shit to you.

...because you can't because your position is completely illogical.


you do.

Why?


now if you had said "i believe there is no God" that would've been logical. but you're too emotional on this subject to let logic get in the way.

:lol believing that a magical being exists for absolutely no logical reason
:lol calling others illogical

And again, what claim am I making? Please point to the post you are referring to.

[DarrinS]

Because I don't have the urge to hurt others.... is that something religion limits for you?

I'm not religious. Why do you suppose that you don't have the urge to hurt others?

[baseline bum]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a response to fundamentalist Christianity specifically. Maybe DoK meant it differently.

[redzero]

Why not rape and pillage (see Occupy movement). You're only a piece of meat after all. :lol too dumb to do things based on what you think is right

[baseline bum]

I'm not religious. Why do you suppose that you don't have the urge to hurt others?

Because wanting to kill off your own kind wouldn't be something nature would select for?

[DarrinS]

Pick just about any AGW thread.

I define lying as rather deliberately and systematically telling things that are half-true.

Once or twice and it can be chalked up to simple omissions or mistakes.

Once half-truths and the concealing of information become a pattern that definitely becomes lying, as it is a deliberate attempt to mislead, just as if you make shit up out of whole cloth.

Lol "concealing information". I'm not one of the climategate scientists conspiring to subvert the peer review process or skirt FOI laws. You're just a simple hypocrite RG.

[redzero]

Again, Darrin, when is God going to get around to feeding the starving, curing the sick, etc? For somebody who is infinitely powerful and infinitely good, he doesn't do much charity work.

[AFBlue]

God is credited with healing the sick all the time.

Why are amputees different?

I agree it is a fairly mild one, but hardly a weak point. It has rather large implications.

Your question speaks to the same thing.

Why would a God answer all sorts of prayers but leave those of the tortured and abused and everything else alone?

Sorry, it's not weak and I understand the premise. I don't know why God gives some seemingly tougher paths than others. I certainly don't think that those who experience hardship are being punished for something they did...or that God isn't answering their prayers.

Again, the best way I can explain it is to say that each person has a path and they can choose to walk it with God or without.

[ElNono]

You'd have to be a depressing person to be on your deathbed and not hope there's some life afterward. I would feel sorry for you. It'd show you had a lame life.

???????

[ElNono]

I'm not religious. Why do you suppose that you don't have the urge to hurt others?

Perhaps the convenience of not landing in jail?

[ElNono]

the way i understood it was they give no contemplation to such outlandish, fantastical beliefs that an afterlife exists because as redzero said it's flying spaghetti to them.

Maybe they just don't really care and rather spend their time on something else...

[scott]

Can baseline bum and I just copy and paste from the thousands of posts on the subject in the Classic Threads forum?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Where have I lied?

Well you told us this:


And yet

http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/global-temps-lg.jpg

and when asked where you got it from you told us:


Berkeley


Earth


Surface


Temperature.

When in fact you had really gotten it from a mailer that WC was kind enough to post for us


Scientist who said climate change sceptics had been proved wrong accused of hiding truth by colleague (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2055191/Scientists-said-climate-change-sceptics-proved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html)

and you would not link the source because it quite clearly tells us that the chart was from a think tank who housed by a mining lobby. It was intentionally deceptive as you knew the source was shit.

[Heath Ledger]

If something exciting like a miracle happens Praise Jesus!

If something bad happens like a baby dying in a fiery auto crash, must have been part of Gods plan. Or my favorite, God never gives us more than we can handle.

[redzero]

Yep, God gets all the credit and none of the blame.

"Oh, a plane crashed and all but one passenger died? It's a miracle!"

[LnGrrrR]

Why are atheist so much less charitable than religious people?

Because we want to be part of that 1% so we're good Americans.

[LnGrrrR]

Actually, believing that how you live your life matters gives it meaning by definition, no. It's the atheist who must think their lives meaningless.

:lol

I guess since we won't be judged by a guy in a cloud, and/or receive goodie bags after we die, then all us atheists have nothing to live for.

[Heath Ledger]

Anyone with an internet connection and half a brain should be able to conclude that there is no GOD at least not the one the Bible speaks of.

[LnGrrrR]

If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?

DarrinS failing all over the place.

[LnGrrrR]

Well, where do our morals come from? Why is something "good" vs "bad"?

You're still going with this? :lol

Hey DarrinS, what does God say about advanced interrogation? Just wondering.

What's he say about helping the homeless? What's Jesus say about those 1% moneylenders?

[LnGrrrR]

Why not rape and pillage (see Occupy movement). You're only a piece of meat after all.

fail fail fail fail fail

Are you planning on feeding a herd of cattle with all those strawmen you're creating?

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not religious. Why do you suppose that you don't have the urge to hurt others?

Because the mean old man upstairs made me appreciate others! Except of course when I do feel like hurting others, but that's my fault. :(

[LnGrrrR]

Again, the best way I can explain it is to say that each person has a path and they can choose to walk it with God or without.

The problem is that it looks the same to some of us whether you're walking with or without him.

[AFBlue]

Anyone with an internet connection and half a brain should be able to conclude that there is no GOD at least not the one the Bible speaks of.

I believe in the God the Bible speaks of, and I have both an internet connection and at least half a brain.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I believe in the God the Bible speaks of, and I have both an internet connection and at least half a brain.

Whats the basis of your belief? any direct observation and if so could you please describe it?

[Drachen]

DarrinS failing all over the place.

its like that keystone commercial. "DarrinS is failing" " no no, DarrinS just is"

[ElNono]

tbh, these religious threads are always entertaining, but someday we should re-enact the Anti-Christ one :lol

[LnGrrrR]

tbh, these religious threads are always entertaining, but someday we should re-enact the Anti-Christ one :lol

Someone should create a DemonLuv troll, ASAP.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

you're making an evidence based claim. mine is faith. i don't have to prove shit to you. you do. now if you had said "i believe there is no God" that would've been logical. but you're too emotional on this subject to let logic get in the way.
So you admit there's no proof god exists, just checking. Having faith is believing in something when there's no logical or rational reason to do so.

I chose to have faith in the flying spaghetti monster

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Someone should create a DemonLuv troll, ASAP.
I tried creating a Demon_Luv troll like 3 times and Kori would have none of it. Angel_Luv is on her protected list. BadOdor got pinked for something he said to her 1000x less mean than the stuff said on this site every day.

[AFBlue]

The problem is that it looks the same to some of us whether you're walking with or without him.

Whose problem is it...non-believers? I can't change the fact that you see randomness and I see a path divined by God. It's called faith for a reason.

[AFBlue]

Whats the basis of your belief? any direct observation and if so could you please describe it?

I see God in the existence of life from a general viewpoint, but I also see God working in my own walk of life. I can choose to believe the creation of life was a random act and that the events in my life are similarly random...but I don't. I have faith that a supreme being created life from nothingness and has purposefully set our paths.

As an example, I met my wife after year four of college at Baylor. Had I decided to go elsewhere or not changed my degree plan midstream (forcing a fifth year), and should she have not done the same (got her Masters in the same time it took me to get my Bachelors :lol) we never would've met. Again, you can look at that string and call it random, but I say it's devined by God.

Is that direct proof? No, but that's why it's a leap of faith.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Thinking god did anything for you on a personal level when he's neglected to do stuff like warn Haitians about a catastrophic Earthquake is one of the most narcissistic behaviors I've ever seen someone exhibit.

[ElNono]

Thinking god did anything for you on a personal level when he's neglected to do stuff like warn Haitians about a catastrophic Earthquake is one of the most narcissistic behaviors I've ever seen someone exhibit.

You don't get it. God already had set up the path of all of those Haitians and used the Earthquake as a 'test of character'. It might look like such a god is an asshole, but he actually loves you and all those that passed and failed the 'test of character'

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What's funny is Pat Robertson didn't even try to come up with some bullshit test of character justification for the Earthquakes in Haiti. He was ballsy and explained how Haitians were punished for the deal they made with Satan.

[ElNono]

I think god should strongly consider having his own 'American Psycho' movie. There he could explain the rationale for all these alleged 'tests', and why he still loves everyone regardless of the outcome of such 'tests'.

[ElNono]

Actually, that gives me an idea for a poll...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh the Jigsaw movie series might have been symbolism for how god works

[baseline bum]

I think god should strongly consider having his own 'American Psycho' movie. There he could explain the rationale for all these alleged 'tests', and why he still loves everyone regardless of the outcome of such 'tests'.

The first scene could have some douchebag ghost-hunters find him with their EMF meters.

[AFBlue]

Thinking god did anything for you on a personal level when he's neglected to do stuff like warn Haitians about a catastrophic Earthquake is one of the most narcissistic behaviors I've ever seen someone exhibit.

I believe God has a plan for each and every one of us. How is that narcissistic? Is it because I chose a positive example? How about this one....God "neglected" to save my twin sister who passed about six weeks after we were born. I don't know why God chose to end her path almost before it had a chance to begin, but I know my life and the life of my family members (parents/siblings) would've been significantly different had she lived.

I don't know when God has divined for my life to end, but I choose to believe it will serve a purpose in other people's paths and I will be ready to live my eternal life in the heaven I believe in.

[ElNono]

The first scene could have some douchebag ghost-hunters find him with their EMF meters.

:lol

[ElNono]

But where do light bulbs come from?
/Darrin

[LnGrrrR]

Whose problem is it...non-believers? I can't change the fact that you see randomness and I see a path divined by God. It's called faith for a reason.

I used poor wording. It's not really a "problem", it's just that it doesn't look any different to non-believers. I'm perfectly fine with people who believe in God. :toast

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I see God in the existence of life from a general viewpoint, but I also see God working in my own walk of life. I can choose to believe the creation of life was a random act and that the events in my life are similarly random...but I don't. I have faith that a supreme being created life from nothingness and has purposefully set our paths.

As an example, I met my wife after year four of college at Baylor. Had I decided to go elsewhere or not changed my degree plan midstream (forcing a fifth year), and should she have not done the same (got her Masters in the same time it took me to get my Bachelors :lol) we never would've met. Again, you can look at that string and call it random, but I say it's devined by God.

Is that direct proof? No, but that's why it's a leap of faith.

Fair enough. Thanks for the response. Thats not enough for me but I am not you and thats the point.

[LnGrrrR]

You don't get it. God already had set up the path of all of those Haitians and used the Earthquake as a 'test of character'. It might look like such a god is an asshole, but he actually loves you and all those that passed and failed the 'test of character'

No no no. In this case, the Haitians were a noble sacrifice, and it's really a test for those of us are good enough off that we can donate 10 dollars to the recovery fund.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How is that narcissistic?
Because it implies god cared more about getting you married than saving the lives of thousands of Haitians.

But if you actually believe a bunch of Haitians dying in an Earthquake was "A path god chose", then you can pretty much justify anything. All I can say is god is an asshole for choosing to kill so many innocent Haitians.

[AFBlue]

I used poor wording. It's not really a "problem", it's just that it doesn't look any different to non-believers. I'm perfectly fine with people who believe in God. :toast

And I'm perfectly fine with people who don't believe. I don't like being called an idiot because I believe in something others don't, but I suspect it's probably a common response to being told you have no moral compass or will burn in hell for your non-belief.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

All we need now is Angel_Luv to post in this thread about how god guided her to the path of making meat loaf for dinner after she quit her job at the mall.

[AFBlue]

Because it implies god cared more about getting you married than saving the lives of thousands of Haitians.

But if you actually believe a bunch of Haitians dying in an Earthquake was "A path god chose", then you can pretty much justify anything. All I can say is god is an asshole for choosing to kill so many innocent Haitians.

You can believe God is an asshole as long as you don't think I'm a narcissist. I have an image I'd like to uphold.

[AFBlue]

All we need now is Angel_Luv to post in this thread about how god guided her to the path of making meat loaf for dinner after she quit her job at the mall.

mmm...meatloaf, definitely one of God's greatest creations.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You can think of me however which way you want and I can think of you however I want. It's nothing personal, anyone who believes god has ever done them a favor on a personal level IMO is narcissistic. Whether it be you, Angel_Luv, or even David Robinson.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I suspect it's probably a common response to being told you have no moral compass or will burn in hell for your non-belief.
This I will say is 100% true. If believers in god didn't make any effort to shove their beliefs down my throat with gay marriage laws, pro-life laws, or laws against stem cell research, I wouldn't give two shits about god or Christianity one way or another.

Since there are millions of Christians in this country who feel the bible should be what the government uses to make laws, I feel that the only way to respond is to point out how flawed and stupid I think the bible is.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good or evil just like beauty and ugliness do not necessarily require 'God' to exist. That particular discussion has been central within philosophy forever. It goes back all the way to Plato and his forms.


It also revolves around the question of whether or not some knowledge exists without human perception. Is the notion of good and evil existent only because humans and by extension human social constructs perceive it or does it exist independent of that.

I can see circumstances where they exist just as i can see some sort of sentient greater being that dictates those terms. All of the typical moral maxims have some basis in social control as far as I can tell so I personally believe them to be social constructs but I consider the possibility that they are notions that exist in and of themselves as well as because of some heretofore unrevealed God's desire.

[AFBlue]

You can think of me however which way you want and I can think of you however I want. It's nothing personal, anyone who believes god has ever done them a favor on a personal level IMO is narcissistic. Whether it be you, Angel_Luv, or even David Robinson.

You're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say God did me a favor by introducing me to my wife. I said it was my path, which God has divined. That is one thing I'm certainly thankful to him for, but it wasn't God doing me a solid because I put five extra bucks in the offering plate.

For what it's worth, I think whatever has happened in your life (good and bad) has also been divined by God. If it applies to everyone and doesn't just reflect "the good stuff", how does that make me a narcissist?

[NASpurs]

This I will say is 100% true. If believers in god didn't make any effort to shove their beliefs down my throat with gay marriage laws, pro-life laws, or laws against stem cell research, I wouldn't give two shits about god or Christianity one way or another.

Since there are millions of Christians in this country who feel the bible should be what the government uses to make laws, I feel that the only way to respond is to point out how flawed and stupid I think the bible is.

And you chose the loud mouth, condescending way. Good choice. :tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm no more (or less) loud mouth and condescending than religious right dominionists who want abortion and gay marriage to be banned in the US. The only difference is, I don't want to suppress the rights of gays or rape victims.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you chose the loud mouth, condescending way. Good choice. :tu

Religion should not dictate policy and when people try and do it anyway there is pushback.

[ElNono]

But where do light bulbs come from?
/Darrin

Not surprised none of you dishonest atheists can answer this question, tbh

[ElNono]

Religion should not dictate policy and when people try and do it anyway there is pushback.

Creations like laws from weakling humans can't stand in the way of a perfect God.
God clearly said 'thou shall not kill except when fighting wars or terrerists, or your justice system issues a death penalty ruling'... Or something like that...

[NASpurs]

Oh I agree that religion shouldn't dictate policies. It's not often for the greater good, it's more for selfish reasons why things are the way they are. I'm Christian but I'm not a fan of organized religion capping minds and dictating lives which in essence, is not how it should be to me imo. But I know I'm in the minority in this way of thinking with all the bigots of the world.

I just don't think two wrongs make a right as well being grouped into the "illogical" and "irrational" group because I see the world different than the black and white that people with "logical" and "rational" reasoning see the world. I'm probably taking this personal though but I just want to say there's different types of Christians out their in the world than the Westboro Church types of the world.

Two things I really detest are organized religion and politics. There's a bunch of lying and self serving going on hidden behind a facade. Corruption is human nature I guess.

[AFBlue]

Oh I agree that religion shouldn't dictate policies. It's not often for the greater good, it's more for selfish reasons why things are the way they are. I'm Christian but I'm not a fan of organized religion capping minds and dictating lives which in essence, is not how it should be to me imo. But I know I'm in the minority in this way of thinking with all the bigots of the world.

I just don't think two wrongs make a right as well being grouped into the "illogical" and "irrational" group because I see the world different than the black and white that people with "logical" and "rational" reasoning see the world. I'm probably taking this personal though but I just want to say there's different types of Christians out their in the world than the Westboro Church types of the world.

Two things I really detest are organized religion and politics. There's a bunch of lying and self serving going on hidden behind a facade. Corruption is human nature I guess.

It's hard not to take it personally when the God you believe in is being heavily mocked and called a stupid asshole by multiple posters. But it does no good to be dragged into an emotionally charged debate with someone who isn't going to ever agree with you. Like you though, I do take exception to being called an idiot or irational because I have a different view.

[ElNono]

tbh, I've heavily mocked and called a stupid asshole the Flying Spaghetti Monster too. Not sure this will make you feel better, but I'm just throwing it out there...

[ElNono]

Oh, I also disagree that "logical" or "rational" people see the world black and white. Not sure where you got that from.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh if every Christian was like AFBlue or NASpurs I wouldn't ever say anything about Christianity (positive or negative). As much as I disagree with their views they don't seem like the type who want to shove their views down other people's throats or use their views to create laws in this country which is the only real issue I have.

[ElNono]

Tbh if every Christian was like AFBlue or NASpurs I wouldn't ever say anything about Christianity (positive or negative). As much as I disagree with their views they don't seem like the type who want to shove their views down other people's throats or use their views to create laws in this country which is the only real issue I have.

I agree. I frankly think everybody is free to believe whatever they want to believe. The chasing people with the bible DRob-style is where it gets sketchy, tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's hard not to take it personally when the God you believe in is being heavily mocked and called a stupid asshole by multiple posters.
If you wanna blame someone for that, don't blame us. Blame the Republican party for hijacking Christianity and using it to promote a homophobic agenda with oppressive laws.

[ElNono]

Talking about assholes... I wonder if Cobra thinks he's going to heaven or hell...

[Wild Cobra]

Talking about assholes... I wonder if Cobra thinks he's going to heaven or hell...
Neither.

My beliefs aren't the same, yet I believe our spirit lives on.

Got my answer because this is at the end. this thread has grown rather large, and haven't read any of the rest since before I went to work yesterday. May stop reading this one.

[benefactor]

I agree. I frankly think everybody is free to believe whatever they want to believe. The chasing people with the bible DRob-style is where it gets sketchy, tbh.
This is where I stand...and it's a big reason why I don't get involved in internet debates about my faith. My faith is based out of my own personal experiences...experiences I will share if someone wants to sit down and listen earnestly. If I'm going to talk about my personal experiences with God, it's going to be with someone I've already established some relational ground with. I figured out years ago that it was fruitless to chase people around and throw the Bible at them. Honestly, I'm pretty ashamed of the "Christian" establishments of today and how they operate.

Christians today would do themselves a huge favor if they got out of politics, off of national TV, quit doing huge speaking events, etc. Get rid of the show and start helping people who really need help. Can you imagine the good that could be done in local communities in this country with all the money that is paid to churches every week?

[Warlord23]

IMO holding a deistic or pantheistic position is fine, as long as you keep it to yourself. Holding theistic positions (Christian, Islamic etc) is the real problem with lesser educated parts of our society.

You can feel spiritual, you can be overwhelmed by the beauty and complexity of the world you live in, you may have had personal experiences that heighten your spirituality .... but none of that proves that Genesis or Noah's Ark or the Virgin Birth is true. That's the biggest mistake most people make: they feel spiritual when they view the Milky Way through a telescope and start believing scripture that is demonstrably false.

I personally have no need to believe in any supernatural entity to appreciate the magnificent universe that we live in, or to know the difference between what's right and what's wrong. As the saying goes: left to themselves, good men do good things and evil men do evil things; if you want a good man to do evil things, that takes (theistic) religion.

[RandomGuy]

Lol "concealing information". I'm not one of the climategate scientists conspiring to subvert the peer review process or skirt FOI laws. You're just a simple hypocrite RG.

How am I a hypocrite? I am neither a "climategate scientist", nor have I ever skirted a FOI law.

LOL butthurt at getting called on being a dishonest piece of shit.

[RandomGuy]

Can baseline bum and I just copy and paste from the thousands of posts on the subject in the Classic Threads forum?

May as well. I don't see much new here.

[DarrinS]

How am I a hypocrite? I am neither a "climategate scientist", nor have I ever skirted a FOI law.

LOL butthurt at getting called on being a dishonest piece of shit.

Yawn

[silverblk mystix]

In the end...what does it matter? Everyone on this planet will live (or sleepwalk) and die and never get to prove or disprove the existence of ....what people label as God, love, Allah, Budda, etc...

So what does it matter?

What does matter is to die to each moment and then let it go and die to the next moment completely....

This is one way to truly live. Nothing else will matter if we are able to consistently practice this simple task.

[RandomGuy]

Yep, God gets all the credit and none of the blame.

"Oh, a plane crashed and all but one passenger died? It's a miracle!"

My favorite was a guy who faxed a prayer to his house in the California fires.

His house didn't burn, but all of his neighbors' did.

This is held up, to my understanding, as a shining example of the power of prayer.

Glaringly obvious is that all the other neighbors who prayed for their house not to burn were ignored.

It is sad to me that people can ignore the glaringly obvious when it suits them.

[RandomGuy]

What's funny is Pat Robertson didn't even try to come up with some bullshit test of character justification for the Earthquakes in Haiti. He was ballsy and explained how Haitians were punished for the deal they made with Satan.

That is how a weak mind deals with cognitive bias.

The fact that he views God as all-powerful and loving is irreconcilable with the suffering of innocents.

Since he can't go back on his views of God, the only choice is to blame the people to whom bad things happen.

Robertson is a real piece of work. He is the kind of person that Jesus probably railed against when he was alive, something I find deliciously ironic.

[DarrinS]

In the end...what does it matter? Everyone on this planet will live (or sleepwalk) and die and never get to prove or disprove the existence of ....what people label as God, love, Allah, Budda, etc...

So what does it matter?



What matters is that people like RandomGuy can knock down their own strawmen so that they can go on living with their false sense of superiority. At the end of the day, he is just a small man that counts other people's money. He's no better than the people that he openly mocks for not having his "correct thinking". What he needs is something called humility.

[scott]

Why did Jesus call himself the Son of Man?

[Blake]

Why did Jesus call himself the Son of Man?

he had a habit of self-humbling

[RandomGuy]

What matters is that people like RandomGuy can knock down their own strawmen so that they can go on living with their false sense of superiority. At the end of the day, he is just a small man that counts other people's money. He's no better than the people that he openly mocks for not having his "correct thinking". What he needs is something called humility.

Lol butthurt.

What strawman?

Be specific or STFU, sophist.

[DarrinS]

Lol butthurt.

What strawman?

Be specific or STFU, sophist.


Hey, it's FuzzyLumpkins

[DarkReign]

Seems odd, but I remember there being a website dedicated to this very question.

Thank you google!

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

[Blake]

What does matter is to die to each moment and then let it go and die to the next moment completely....

This is one way to truly live. Nothing else will matter if we are able to consistently practice this simple task.

wtf per the usual

[Blake]

why does God usually only build big, pretty churches on the good sides of town?

[boutons_deux]

why does God usually only build big, pretty churches on the good sides of town?

Like Willy Sutton said, "because that's where the money is"

And the multi-$M "parsonages" are tax free. Benny Hinn had one worth $10M overlooking the Pacific.

[ElNono]

In the end...what does it matter?

You're underrating the entertainment value. 9 pages and going strong. :lol

[ElNono]

why does God usually only build big, pretty churches on the good sides of town?

Obviously it's to suck the money from the rich and funnel it to the poor. Socialist god and his wealth redistribution!

[vy65]

I don't believe in god, but wtf is the point of this thread?

[cantthinkofanything]

I don't believe in god, but wtf is the point of this thread?

you got it

[Drachen]

I don't believe in god, but wtf is the point of this thread?

My first response in this thread was "RG must be bored". He responded with something to the effect of "A little, but my lunch is over now."

[TeyshaBlue]

Stupid Thread delivers.

[DMX7]

My favorite was a guy who faxed a prayer to his house in the California fires.

His house didn't burn, but all of his neighbors' did.

This is held up, to my understanding, as a shining example of the power of prayer.

Glaringly obvious is that all the other neighbors who prayed for their house not to burn were ignored.

It is sad to me that people can ignore the glaringly obvious when it suits them.

God works in mysterious ways. It’s best not to question.

[sonic21]

God only intervenes in the lives of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior.

[Blake]

God only intervenes in the lives of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior.

yeah, I'll pass on all that, sleep in on Sundays and just wait until the last second to get my free pass into Heaven.

[redzero]

God only intervenes in the lives of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior.

Except when he doesn't.

[ChumpDumper]

lol Darrin tried to use the term strawman

[RandomGuy]

I don't believe in god, but wtf is the point of this thread?

wtf is the point of any thread?

[RandomGuy]

Stupid Thread delivers.

... says the guy with nothing to contribute.

You have rung the doorbell, are you going to go away now?

[RandomGuy]

lol Darrin tried to use the term strawman

I had to stop myself from reposting the "oh the irony" picture.

You will note that he can't actually identify a strawman argument. More yucks.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hey, it's FuzzyLumpkins

Its more like people see you exactly as what you are. You are a deceptive piece of shit that would rather lie then look to be wrong. You are intellectually dishonest and everything that you write has to be scrutinized to the n-th degree to make sure youa re not trying to mislead us with a lie again.

[vy65]

wtf is the point of any thread?

Substantive conversation, learning shit.

This is a shit show you started to make yourself feel better. Pretty fucking sad.

[ChumpDumper]

Substantive conversation, learning shit.

This is a shit show you started to make yourself feel better. Pretty fucking sad.Do you feel worse?

Seems like a pretty reasonable question. Trying to dismiss it out of hand is an answer in itself.

[vy65]

Do you feel worse?

Seems like a pretty reasonable question. Trying to dismiss it out of hand is an answer in itself.

lol reasonable

[ChumpDumper]

lol reasonableWhy is it unreasonable?

Please explain.

[DarrinS]

... says the guy with nothing to contribute.

You have rung the doorbell, are you going to go away now?

Someone's awfully sensitive.

[ChumpDumper]

Someone's awfully sensitive.True, it read like one of your posts.

[DarrinS]

Substantive conversation, learning shit.

This is a shit show you started to make yourself feel better. Pretty fucking sad.

Yep

[ChumpDumper]

Yepvy65 was pretty sensitive too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I just want someone like BigZak to come in and describe his direct conversations with God.

[Borat Sagyidev]

If you are an athiest, why would anything ever be considered morally wrong?


This idiotic post exemplifies a key point that evangelicals seem to conveniently overlook. If that's the case, then God is the only thing preventing them from pillaging and murdering each other.

Never mind than any rational person can realize that randomly pillaging and killing each other is a recipe for problems. Concepts like retaliation, population sustainability aren't that hard to understand. It's good to have morals from a survival sense, not to mention it reduces stress on our state of being.

No information from white pigmented sky wizard needed. It's a natural occurrence.

[DarkReign]

No information from white pigmented sky wizard needed.

I loled.

[vy65]

vy65 was pretty sensitive too.

ok

[RandomGuy]

Substantive conversation, learning shit.

This is a shit show you started to make yourself feel better. Pretty fucking sad.

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that appointed you the Arbitor of Worthwhile Conversations on Spurstalk Political Forums. If you could please forward that to me as soon as possible, I would appreciate it.

As for substantive, it is what it is. I was hoping for someone a bit more erudite and competant than Darrin to take up the gauntlet. If it is less than substantive, blame him. Phenomanul did/does a lot better.

I harbor no illusions that starting a converstation about ethics and the nature of morals or religion on a basketball forum will yeild anything grand. One can hope. Some of the people that post here are worth talking to.

As for "making me feel better": meh. Take your usual angry/bitter/jealous/whatever bullshit and stuff it. For someone whose general tenor is that of a judgmental asshole, you have little room to criticize, IMO.