Boris Diaw vs. David Lee

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Poll coming. Vote on who you think is the better basketball player.

I'm making it public so I can easily identify a list of all the dumbfucks who pick Boris Diaw.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Add the quotes from the other thread for further embarrassment imo.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That "Spursfanfromafar" dumbfuck was even worse :lol, he's the reason I brought up Diaw vs. Lee in the :cryserious discussion:cry thread


A motivated Boris Diaw is better than David Lee tbh.


Honestly despite his fatassness Id take the post-buyout Diaw over Lee.


Dont see how its laughable tbh. Its not like Lee is worth a shit, even if you consider him better than Diaw theres really no reason why you should think the difference between the two is huge.


:lol stats

Ill give you the fact that Lee has more motivation and a better ability to put up numbers on lottery teams. He wouldnt be more than 4th-5th best player on a top team though just like Diaw, and in that role Id take Boris tbh.


Dude. Pop will never want Lee. Aside from mid range shooting and good rebounding, David Lee is a liability. Very poor defender. Boris Diaw is way better than him.


Nonsense.

Basketballvalue says that the Warriors give up 5 points more when they play David Lee on the floor.. (over scrubs or newbies such as Ekpe Udoh, Chris Wright, Gladness, etc).. And this is a bad defensive team that gets worse.

Why would a Spurs team that needs their big to play atleast above average defense want David Lee?

Boris Diaw as long as he has played for the Spurs, even in limited minutes ..(and he is a starter now) has improved the Spurs defense replacing Blair. He is the best passing big in the team and he is on a minimum contract.

Why the eff would anyone want Lee on the Spurs with a contract that pays him $14 million (more than Manu, Parker, and Jackson?)

I follow the NBA from afar, but I watch games and know enough to distinguish a good big from a defensively challenged one.

You? A bad mouthing racist idiot who doesn't know a thing, apparently.

[jeebus]

Boris Diaw is really good.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Boris Diaw is really good.


Is this real life?

[Bill_Brasky]

I pick Diaw :toast

[jeebus]

Is this real life?

Yup.. and I am sure you don't watch basketball, do you?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

This thread is serious discussion only. Thx in advance.

[ginobili's bald spot]

This is good. All we have to do is link to this thread the next time people start crying about lack of "serious basketball discussion". I can't imagine why San Antonio makes those "dumbest cities" lists.

[jeebus]

20/10 machine who gives up 5 more points than a combination of Gladness, Moore, Jenkins, Udoh (since departed)

versus

A High IQ player who is not as fat as he was with the Bobcats..and is a hardworking defensive player as compared to Bonner/ Blair..

I take the latter. And glad that you acknowledge that you are an idiot who doesn't watch games. Do that and we will talk.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yup. I'm trying to make a thread for serious basketball discussion and Spurs fans are incapable of contributing.

I guess when they complain about the lack of serious basketball discussion, it's because they're incapable of it so they need fans of other teams to provide it for them.

[Calispursfan11]

Diaw is a fatass with skill and Richard Jefferson rode Lee like a donkey one time. So I pick Diaw.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Diaw is a fatass with skill and Richard Jefferson rode Lee like a donkey one time. So I pick Diaw.
Thanks for that serious contribution of meaningful basketball discussion.

[ginobili's bald spot]

I don't ever ever want to see spurfan calling someone from another team a stupid homer after reading this.







Ever.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm pretty sure jeebus is kidding around, but the other greys who voted probably aren't.

What can definitely be derived from this thread is Spurs fans are incapable of serious discussion.

[Venti Quattro]

crofl OF COURSE it's Boris Diaw!

[8FOR!3]

Lee's a better scorer and better rebounder. I'll take an efficient scorer, average rebounder, solid defender, and good passer any day over David Lee though. Give me Boris Diaw. At the same time, it does depend on what kind of team you're talking about. David Lee would bring more to Charlotte or New Orleans than Diaw would. But Diaw's got much more to offer to playoff contenders.

[jag]

:corn:

[Calispursfan11]

It's not homerism. It's the truth. Lee is not a better basketball player. He may be more physically gifted, but the French fatass is much smarter and also much more of an all - around threat. He needs Jenny Craig badly though.

[jeebus]

I don't ever ever want to see spurfan calling someone from another team a stupid homer after reading this.







Ever.

true. That thread did have a lot of good, quotable sources. Unfortunately, dok took most of the best ones; there are still some gems though. Uninformed spurfan is always good for a laugh.

I'd take Lee. At least he's motivated to not turn into a lardass on a subpar team

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Lee's a better scorer and better rebounder. I'll take an efficient scorer, average rebounder, solid defender, and good passer any day over David Lee though. Give me Boris Diaw. At the same time, it does depend on what kind of team you're talking about. David Lee would bring more to Charlotte or New Orleans than Diaw would. But Diaw's got much more to offer to playoff contenders.
:lmao efficient scorer and average rebounder? Diaw usually has somewhere between 4-6 points a game and 4-6 rebounds a game, it doesn't matter how efficient his scoring is, he's not a "scorer" at all and is a below average rebounder.

[Bill_Brasky]

When choosing between the two players, one should also consider that David Lee is on a 6 yr/80 mil contract, while Diaw just signed a 2yr/9mil deal.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When choosing between the two players, one should also consider that David Lee is on a 6 yr/80 mil contract, while Diaw just signed a 2yr/9mil deal.
The poll is asking who the better player is, not who the better bang for your buck is. Their salaries are a non-factor in this discussion.

I figured it was only a matter of time before Spurfan would change lanes to, "But Lee is paid a lot more!"

[Bill_Brasky]

The poll is asking who the better player is, not who the better bang for your buck is. Their salaries are a non-factor in this discussion.

I figured it was only a matter of time before Spurfan would change lanes to, "But Lee is paid a lot more!"

It's something I take into consideration because it's actually based in reality. Duh, David Lee is better, but got damn that dude is overpaid.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Duh, David Lee is better
Spurs fans who want serious discussion seem to think differently.

I agree he's overpaid, but that's irrelevant to this thread.

[ginobili's bald spot]

It's something I take into consideration because it's actually based in reality. Duh, David Lee is better, but got damn that dude is overpaid.

WTF kinda logic? Simple straight forward questions confuse these people.

[ElNono]

But David Lee plays for bad teams!

[jag]

Boris' laziness isn't as bad as it's been made out to be, at least not with the Spurs. That being said, David Lee is no star, but I'd easily take him over Boris.

[Bill_Brasky]

^His passiveness pisses me off WAY more than any lazyness. Dude played pretty hard in the WCF, but pussed out of taking so many fucking wide open 3's.

[jeebus]

How many times did Diaw pass up a wide open layup to pass it off to an unsuspecting player? Only til like game 5 or 6 against OKC did he finish through instead of passing.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Boris' laziness isn't as bad as it's been made out to be
oh hi
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRjB00_ietddwUuT03qzd-DHuomF9c8-Wou_s6djV3lpRgF4Cv0XtXx-3S


^His passiveness pisses me off WAY more than any lazyness.
His passiveness is a product of his laziness. If he actually gave a shit, he wouldn't be passive and wouldn't be lazy.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Sure David Lee averages 20 & 10. Big deal. Boris Diaw has the defense of Bill Russell combined with the basketball IQ of Luke Walton. Don't even get me started on how classy he is.

[Venti Quattro]

How many times did Diaw pass up a wide open layup to pass it off to an unsuspecting player? Only til like game 5 or 6 against OKC did he finish through instead of passing.

He's too unselfish. What a classy guy.

[Juggity]

oh hi
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRjB00_ietddwUuT03qzd-DHuomF9c8-Wou_s6djV3lpRgF4Cv0XtXx-3S


He's lost a lot of that "Bobcats weight" since signing with the Spurs

[jeebus]

He's too unselfish. What a classy guy.

Would he share a nugget from his two 20 piece family meal from McDonalds? :nope:lol

[DisAsTerBot]

meaningful basketball discussions means we should all have the same opinion!!!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I like how Spurs fans rewrite how good of a defender Diaw is when he's nothing more than an average defender and overstate how bad David Lee is on defense because defense is the one thing that can't be proven right/wrong by statistics.

Outside of the fact Diaw passes well for a big man (even though Diaw is really a perimeter player who's forced to play PF and C because he's so fuckin fat), I also don't see the high bball IQ. Players with high bball IQs don't pass up wide open shots like Diaw does. Someone with a high IQ also knows that being fat hinders one's ability to play basketball.

[Bill_Brasky]

Sure David Lee averages 20 & 10. Big deal. Boris Diaw has the defense of Bill Russell combined with the basketball IQ of Luke Walton. Don't even get me started on how classy he is.

:cry Classiest passing ever :cry

[weebo]

One is a fatass the other is a honeky. Neither of them very good. Pass on both.

[Ace]

Sure David Lee averages 20 & 10. Big deal. Boris Diaw has the defense of Bill Russell combined with the basketball IQ of Luke Walton. Don't even get me started on how classy he is.

:rollin

[Killakobe81]

Sure David Lee averages 20 & 10. Big deal. Boris Diaw has the defense of Bill Russell combined with the basketball IQ of Luke Walton. Don't even get me started on how classy he is.

GBS, with the goods ...

[The Gemini Method]

:cry Diaw in French means class :cry

[jag]

Boris' laziness isn't as bad as it's been made out to be, at least not with the Spurs.


oh hi
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRjB00_ietddwUuT03qzd-DHuomF9c8-Wou_s6djV3lpRgF4Cv0XtXx-3S


hi

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

if he put up 4 points and 4 rebounds not being lazy, I'd hate to see what he'd put up being lazy :lol

[jag]

if he put up 4 points and 4 rebounds not being lazy, I'd hate to see what he'd put up being lazy :lol

:lol I didn't say he wasn't lazy. I said he hasn't been as bad with the Spurs.

He's still out of shape. He's still somewhat lazy. And he's still French.

[da_suns_fan]

Boris Diaw is crazy talented. Yep, hes fat and passive but hes still a helluva basketball player.

David Lee is more "athlete" than basketball player.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

rofl a helluva basketball player who averages 4 points and 4 rebounds

[Killakobe81]

Diaw was decent for you guys, no doubt. But man Blair and Bonner must be trash for all the love Diaw is getting on this site.

[Killakobe81]

when he was in Phoenix I really did like Diaw's offensive game. He still has skill, it's just buried beneath all of that cellulite ... we see it in flashes still, but the blubber makes it harder to see.

[Venti Quattro]

It's the Ramon Sessions effect. The Lakers' point guards have sucked so much since Magic left that we think Ramon Sessions is any good. Then he pees and shits on his pants in the Playoffs and we're slapped by harsh reality.

[CitizenDwayne]

It's the Ramon Sessions effect. The Lakers' point guards have sucked so much since Magic left that we think Ramon Sessions is any good. Then he pees and shits on his pants in the Playoffs and we're slapped by harsh reality.
That's it, really.

Imagine how much Spurfan fellatio David Lee would be receiving if it were him the Spurs picked up, and not Diaw.

Picking Diaw is delusional. He's been useful, but come on...

[Venti Quattro]

It's funny to read some Spurfans trying to argue for Diaw though :lmao

[mercos]

I like how Spurs fans rewrite how good of a defender Diaw is when he's nothing more than an average defender and overstate how bad David Lee is on defense because defense is the one thing that can't be proven right/wrong by statistics.

Outside of the fact Diaw passes well for a big man (even though Diaw is really a perimeter player who's forced to play PF and C because he's so fuckin fat), I also don't see the high bball IQ. Players with high bball IQs don't pass up wide open shots like Diaw does. Someone with a high IQ also knows that being fat hinders one's ability to play basketball.

Pretty much the rap on Diaw. He makes nice passes and can hit the 3. However, he passes up to many open shots and has a highly questionable work ethic. Say what you want about potential, but David Lee is putting down 20 and 10 right now.

[JMarkJohns]

It's the Ramon Sessions effect. The Lakers' point guards have sucked so much since Magic left that we think Ramon Sessions is any good. Then he pees and shits on his pants in the Playoffs and we're slapped by harsh reality.

He was illused. Brown turned a career 33% 3-point shooting slashing guard into a spot up shooter off double teams. Sessions is good at what he actually is and mediocre at what he isn't. Spot up shooter he isn't.

As for the thread, Diaw is the more talented player, which makes his self-inflicted mediocrity all the more enfuriating. His one good season came alongside MVP Nash. On his own, he's never done anything close since. Despite his seemingly unlimited skillset and ability, Diaw would rather skate on the minimum than be dedicated to fulfilling his potential. What good is 6-9 if all it does is float on the perimeter, athleticism if it's bloated thus slowed, post game if it only passes out of the situation, versatility if it's limited by fatassery, and potential if it settles rather than work?

Put Lee alongside MVP Nash and he averages 25 a game. But what's more impressive is the self motivation to play hard independent of others use of you.

It's Lee.

[Mel_13]

Lee is better than Diaw. The only reasonable arguments to the contrary are those based on the current and future salaries of the two players.

[Brazil]

There is no debate on that one.

One could wonder what could Diaw became if he worked as hard as kobe for instance. dude is talented, he has been once MIP... but definitely he is too lazy

[sexinthatsx]

This thread seems to leave Spurs fans jizzing over the fact that Boris Diaw can revert back to his old form when he was with the Suns. I would much rather have David Lee over Boris Diaw any given day simply because the spurs have not had a big man who can average a double-double outside of Duncan since D-Rob left.

[O.J. Simpson]

:lol Boris Diaw. Even his name is fat.

[rayjayjohnson]

Poll coming. Vote on who you think is the better basketball player.

I'm making it public so I can easily identify a list of all the dumbfucks who pick Boris Diaw.

:lol

[FkLA]

Will bump this sometime next season when Diaw comes into camp with 10% BF and puts up 10, 7, and 3+ tbh :toast

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So basically what you're saying is that the season Boris Diaw hasn't had yet that you think he's gonna have are why you think he's been than David Lee?

In other words, with everything we know right now, ignoring the predictions your magic black & silver colored 8 ball is making, David Lee is better than Diaw.

The funny part is that David Lee still dominates a stat line of 10 7 and 3.

[FkLA]

So basically what you're saying is that the season Boris Diaw hasn't had yet that you think he's gonna have are why you think he's been than David Lee?

In other words, with everything we know right now, ignoring the predictions your magic black & silver colored 8 ball is making, David Lee is better than Diaw.

The funny part is that David Lee still dominates a stat line of 10 7 and 3.

Id still take the post-buyout Diaw. Same skillset as next years Boris will have, just overweight and new to the team. Lee probably would dominate that stat line with his 20-10 on the Warriors. Wouldnt make him a better player than Boris though.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So what you're saying is that if Diaw wasn't overweight he'd be better than David Lee, even though Diaw has been overweight since 2006 :lmao

[Grey Spurfan]

I'm gonna bump this when Boris puts up a hypothetical fantasy stat line that still isn't close to David Lee's. That will show you.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm gonna bump this when Boris puts up a hypothetical fantasy stat line that still isn't close to David Lee's. That will show you.
:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Grey Spurfan]

You feel that? I'm hypothetically owning the shit outta you right now.

[monosylab1k]

I'm gonna bump this when Boris puts up a hypothetical fantasy stat line that still isn't close to David Lee's. That will show you.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

post of the millenium.

[monosylab1k]

whoever runs the Grey Spurfan and Tubthumper trolls really needs to post more imho.

[FkLA]

So what you're saying is that if Diaw wasn't overweight he'd be better than David Lee, even though Diaw has been overweight since 2006 :lmao

Nah hes better regardless. His fatassness affected the amount of time he was able to stay on the court but when he was out there he played fine and showed hes a better basketball player than Lee.

More playing time+becoming more comfortable with the team will prove that even further. :toast

[timtonymanu]

David Lee. I like Diaw but the Diaw> Lee comments are nonsense. Better fit? Yeah, but not better player.

Tbh, if Diaw wasn't even a Spur, this wouldn't even be an argument. Spur fan would just call him a fatass who can't even get Charlotte past 7 wins.

[FkLA]

Will Kevin Love surpass Dirk? His stat line dominates Dirks!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm also curious how Diaw is gonna average 7 rebounds a game when he couldn't do it playing 35 minutes a game as the starting C on the Suns and for that matter hasn't done it any other year as well :lol

Additionally, if you feel Diaw is better right now based solely off what happened last year, it doesn't make sense why you keep feeling the need to bring up what you think Diaw will do next year.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Will Kevin Love surpass Dirk? His stat line dominates Dirks!
when Dirk starts average 4 points and 4 rebounds while Kevin Love is still putting up 20 10, it'll mean Kevin Love has probably surpassed him.

[FkLA]

You keep on hanging onto stats. Ive never said Diaws numbers are comparable to Lees, I said Diaw is a better player. A dumbass like Blair would likely put up double doubles with the Warriors if he was given enough minutes, it wouldnt make him a better player than Diaw even if Diaw simply did what he did with the Spurs last season (4 and 4). Undersized, unathletic PFs who play no defense but have a 'knack' for rebounding and can put up some points are some of the most overrated players in the league.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You said you're gonna bump this when Diaw averages 7 rebounds next year even though he has yet to have a season where he averages 7 rebounds. Point being, your basing an opinion off Diaw producing in a way he hasn't produced his entire career.

Why wasn't Diaw capable of putting up good numbers when he was on a team even shittier than the Warriors?

And no, both Blair and Diaw would go into cardiac arrest if they tried to play 37 MPG on the Warriors.

It's just odd all of your reasons for why Diaw is better than Lee are reasons that can't be quantified or proven because they are completely subjective.

[FkLA]

You said you're gonna bump this when Diaw averages 7 rebounds next year even though he has yet to have a season where he averages 7 rebounds. Point being, your basing an opinion off Diaw producing in a way he hasn't produced his entire career.

Why wasn't Diaw capable of putting up good numbers when he was on a team even shittier than the Warriors?

And no, both Blair and Diaw would go into cardiac arrest if they tried to play 37 MPG on the Warriors.

It's just odd all of your reasons for why Diaw is better than Lee are reasons that can't be quantified or proven because they are completely subjective.

Because Diaw clearly doesnt have the motivation to put up 20-10 on lottery teams. When it comes to putting up solid numbers on shitty teams, Lee blows Diaw away. Ive conceded that tbh.

How is it subjective? Lee really is an undersized, unathletic PF who plays no D and has a 'knack' for rebounding+a solid midrange shot. Thats not that hard to see. Diaw brings more than that to the table imo, Id take him on my team over Lee. Especially an in shape Boris.

[monosylab1k]

when Dirk starts average 4 points and 4 rebounds while Kevin Love is still putting up 20 10, it'll mean Kevin Love has probably surpassed him.

I don't know tbh, you might need to check the per minute stats before jumping to wild conclusions like that!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Lee is an inch taller than Diaw and he's more athletic than Diaw :lol

It's subjective because you're saying you'd take a power forward who "handles the ball and sees the floor well!" over a power forward who can rebound and actually score consistently in spite of the fact that a power forward being able to rebound is a lot more important than a power forward who can play point guard. It'd be like saying, "I'll take Laundry Fields over Joe Johnson because Laundry Fields rebounds really well for a shooting guard!"

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't know tbh, you might need to check the per minute stats before jumping to wild conclusions like that!
Also who has a higher IQ

[Prime KG]

You keep on hanging onto stats.

Exactly! Stats don't mean shit! Unless you're comparing me to Dirk, in which case you HAVE to look at the stats to show how I'm clearly better! Then when comparing me to Duncan, just throw those same stats out the window to prove Duncan is clearly better than me! Brilliant!

[FkLA]

Lee is an inch taller than Diaw and he's more athletic than Diaw :lol

It's subjective because you're saying you'd take a power forward who "handles the ball and sees the floor well!" over a power forward who can rebound and actually score consistently in spite of the fact that a power forward being able to rebound is a lot more important than a power forward who can play point guard. It'd be like saying, "I'll take Laundry Fields over Joe Johnson because Laundry Fields rebounds really well for a shooting guard!"

Too bad Lees extra inch and athleticism doesnt help out his piss poor defense. Or change the fact that he cant contribute offensively in other ways other than assisted jumpshots. Diaw is a better defender. Has a solid jumpshot himself, adds elements to a team offensively that Lee doesnt. Lee is a better rebounder though tbf.

[FkLA]

Exactly! Stats don't mean shit! Unless you're comparing me to Dirk, in which case you HAVE to look at the stats to show how I'm clearly better! Then when comparing me to Duncan, just throw those same stats out the window to prove Duncan is clearly better than me! Brilliant!

Nah brah its actually the fact that youre a great two way player and Dirk isnt. Your stats arent too shabby though. :)

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Too bad Lees extra inch and athleticism doesnt help out his piss poor defense.
:lol so then why did you call him undersized and unathletic when Diaw is more undersize and more unathletic?


Or change the fact that he cant contribute offensively in other ways other than assisted jumpshots.
http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAS18.HTM

I'm curious how someone who can only contribute on offense with assisted jump shots somehow scores 13.6 points a game either at the FT line or in the paint and only 6.5 points a game off jumpers. Meanwhile, 74% of his jump shots and 54% of his inside shots are off assists, compared to 94% of Diaw's jump shots and 67% of Diaw's inside shots being off assists. Which one was the one who relied more on assists :lol

Have you ever watched David Lee play basketball :lol

[FkLA]

:lol so then why did you call him undersized and unathletic when Diaw is more undersize and more unathletic?

I called him an undersized, unathletic, PF with poor defense. That doesnt apply to Diaw.



http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW12.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAS18.HTM

I'm curious how someone who can only contribute on offense with assisted jump shots somehow scores 13.6 points a game either at the FT line or in the paint and only 6.5 points a game off jumpers. Meanwhile, 74% of his jump shots and 54% of his inside shots are off assists, compared to 94% of Diaw's jump shots and 67% of Diaw's inside shots being off assists. Which one was the one who relied more on assists :lol

Have you ever watched David Lee play basketball :lol

Hes not a reliable offensive option in the post, his bread and butter is the midrange jumpshot. Would you disagree with that? I never said Diaw was any different than Lee in those areas btw, simply that he could contribute offensively in other ways because of his ballhandling and courtvision (ability to be a facilitator).

[JMarkJohns]

This thread has taught me that Lee + Spurs = Mikan

[stretch]

Lee is unquestionably better.

Diaw is more talented, but clearly doesn't come close to utilizing his talents.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hes not a reliable offensive option in the post, his bread and butter is the midrange jumpshot. Would you disagree with that?
Seeing that 32.3% of his points come off jumpers and 67.7% of his points come at the FT line or inside the paint, I thinks it's pretty retarded to say his bread and butter is the midrange jumpshot, especially when a higher percentage of Diaw's points (42%) come off jump shots and you're trying to say Diaw contributes more than jump shots on offense and Lee doesn't. I guess when you ignore stats that are staring you in the face, you might agree that his bread and butter is something that only produces 6.5 points a game for him.


I never said Diaw was any different than Lee in those areas btw, simply that he could contribute offensively in other ways because of his ballhandling and courtvision (ability to be a facilitator).
You said David Lee's only contributions on offense are jump shots off assists, even though Diaw relies more on assists for scoring and even though only 32.3% of David Lee's points come off jump shots.

[Monostradamus]

It's been awhile since I've seen an assramming delivered like this. Fkla won't shit right for a month efter dis one.

[diego]

lee is better than diaw, but its pretty stupid to base that argument entirely on stats. it has more to do with diaw being inconsistent and passive than lee being more skilled though.

great players, like lebron or kobe, have had their best statistical seasons when their teams were worst. players like ricky davis, larry hughes, caron butler, have averaged 20-5-5 on crap teams, do you consider any of them better than manu, who never averaged that for a season? (i remember arguing those, i'm sure there are more and better examples; if you round up manu did 20-5-5 once). Tim Duncan probably had way worse stats than blake griffin this year, do you consider griffin better (this year, obviously career is no contest)? how about kobe v duncan, duncan can compete in accolades but statistically kobe blows him out of the water- yet your name is "duncanownskobe". pace, usage rate, composure, defense, versatility/mismatch, etc etc, there are a ton of things traditional stats dont tell you.

also, its disingenuous to act as if fit and salary are irrelevant. stephen jackson and RJ have similar stats and play the same position, but they are very different; one fits the spurs perfectly, the other never did. lee makes what, 3x what diaw does, probably more than any spur period now that tim's old deal ran out. do you think lee is better than any of the big 3 right now? sure, I'll trade manu for him to be better in 3-4 years, but for next year I dont think he significantly improves this team, because his main strengths are already strong areas for us (scoring and rebounding)- i'd even go so far as to say that those are the two biggest "fools gold" stats in the game. its not like he brings low post scoring or size or D. now, if we were talking teammate bogut, who has never sniffed 20/10, i'd package any one of the big 3 + half the roster to get him and we'd be a better team next year...

[FkLA]

Seeing that 32.3% of his points come off jumpers and 67.7% of his points come at the FT line or inside the paint, I thinks it's pretty retarded to say his bread and butter is the midrange jumpshot, especially when a higher percentage of Diaw's points (42%) come off jump shots and you're trying to say Diaw contributes more than jump shots on offense and Lee doesn't. I guess when you ignore stats that are staring you in the face, you might agree that his bread and butter is something that only produces 6.5 points a game for him.


You said David Lee's only contributions on offense are jump shots off assists, even though Diaw relies more on assists for scoring and even though only 32.3% of David Lee's points come off jump shots.

You had Boris in Phoenix for years and youre still arguing as if Boris' offensive contributions start and end with how many points he puts up, why?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You had Boris in Phoenix for years and youre still arguing as if Boris' contributions start and end with how many points he puts up, why?
:lmao that's the response you can muster up?

Nice attempt to steer the argument in a tangent away from your retarded assertion that David Lee's bread and butter is the mid range jumper and all he contributes on offense is jump shots off assists after I've provided stats that jizz on said assertion, but it's not gonna work.

I'm still waiting to hear how all David Lee contributes on offense is jump shots off assists when only 32.3% of his points come off jumpers and he's less reliant on assists than Diaw.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lee is better than diaw, but its pretty stupid to base that argument entirely on stats. it has more to do with diaw being inconsistent and passive than lee being more skilled though.
Right, because when player A is inconsistent, passive, and has less skill than player B, it'll never show up in the numbers.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Tim Duncan probably had way worse stats than blake griffin this year, do you consider griffin better Yes (this year, obviously career is no contest)? how about kobe v duncan, duncan can compete in accolades but statistically kobe blows him out of the water- yet your name is "duncanownskobe". Kobe is better pace, usage rate, composure, defense, versatility/mismatch, etc etc, there are a ton of things traditional stats dont tell you.

also, its disingenuous to act as if fit and salary are irrelevant. stephen jackson and RJ have similar stats and play the same position, but they are very different; one fits the spurs perfectly, the other never did. lee makes what, 3x what diaw does, probably more than any spur period now that tim's old deal ran out. do you think lee is better than any of the big 3 right now? sure, I'll trade manu for him to be better in 3-4 years, but for next year I dont think he significantly improves this team, because his main strengths are already strong areas for us (scoring and rebounding)- i'd even go so far as to say that those are the two biggest "fools gold" stats in the game. its not like he brings low post scoring or size or D. now, if we were talking teammate bogut, who has never sniffed 20/10, i'd package any one of the big 3 + half the roster to get him and we'd be a better team next year...What the fuck does how good of a fit someone is for the spurs have to do with who the better player is?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

also, its disingenuous to act as if fit and salary are irrelevant.
No, it's not. The question is who is the better basketball player. That's it. Try to wrap your bean dipped brain around the fact it's a simple question.

[FkLA]

:lmao that's the response you can muster up?

Nice attempt to steer the argument in a tangent away from your retarded assertion that David Lee's bread and butter is the mid range jumper and all he contributes on offense is jump shots off assists after I've provided stats that jizz on said assertion, but it's not gonna work.

I'm still waiting to hear how all David Lee contributes on offense is jump shots off assists when only 32.3% of his points come off jumpers and he's less reliant on assists than Diaw.

I never said Diaw was any less reliant than Lee. Youre acting like I said Diaw is a great one-on-one scorer. :lol

I said aside from having a solid jumpshot and semi-decent post game/ability to finish around the basket just like Lee, he also has an ability to be a facilitator that Lee doesnt have. Which is why Im asking you why youre acting like Diaws offensive contributions start and end with the amount of points he scores ?

[ElNono]

Was gonna make a Boris Diaw troll, but it's already taken :depressed

[Arnold Rothstein]

I was never for building a border wall until I read this thread. I don't want these bean brains further polluting the gene pool.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I never said Diaw was any less reliant than Lee. Youre acting like I said Diaw is a great one-on-one scorer. :lol

I said aside from having a solid jumpshot and semi-decent post game/ability to finish around the basket just like Lee, he also has an ability to be a facilitator that Lee doesnt have. Which is why Im asking you why youre acting like Diaws offensive contributions start and end with the amount of points he scores ?
You said that David Lee can't contribute on offense in ways other than assisted jump shots. Right here since you're ignoring it:

Too bad Lees extra inch and athleticism doesnt help out his piss poor defense. Or change the fact that he cant contribute offensively in other ways other than assisted jumpshots.
So either A) admit you were talking out of your ass with that comment and it was wildly stupid or B) explain how someone who scores only 32.3% of his points off jumpers can't contribute offensively in ways other than jump shots off assists.

Now all the sudden you're admitting Lee has a "semi-decent post game/ability finish around the basket" but also adding the qualifier Diaw does too, even though Diaw's comparable "semi decent post game/ability to finish around the rim" contributes a grand total of 2.7 points in the paint/free throws a game. Forget the part about how Diaw "facilitates", explain how Diaw has the same inside scoring ability Lee has.

[diego]

No, it's not. The question is who is the better basketball player. That's it. Try to wrap your bean dipped brain around the fact it's a simple question.

i answered the simple question "who is better" in the first sentence of my post.

however, the third post in this thread is full of quotes comparing lee on the spurs vs diaw on the spurs, in which case salary and fit are relevant.

[FkLA]

You said that David Lee can't contribute on offense in ways other than assisted jump shots. Right here since you're ignoring it:

So either A) admit you were talking out of your ass with that comment and it was wildly stupid or B) explain how someone who scores only 32.3% of his points off jumpers can't contribute offensively in ways other than jump shots off assists.

Now all the sudden you're admitting Lee has a "semi-decent post game/ability finish around the basket" but also adding the qualifier Diaw does too, even though Diaw's comparable "semi decent post game/ability to finish around the rim" contributes a grand total of 2.7 points in the paint/free throws a game. Forget the part about how Diaw "facilitates", explain how Diaw has the same inside scoring ability Lee has.

The midrange jumpshot is his bread and butter. He isnt a legit post threat, the fact that he scores X-amount of points in the paint for GS doesnt change that. That shot would be his most effective weapon if he played for the Spurs or any other solid team with any type of post threat...his usage and contribution in the paint would be very similar to Diaws. Again quit acting like hes a prototypical 20-10 player or post scorer, he puts up those type of numbers because he plays for a shit team.

[DontStopBelieving]

I'm fucking retarded.

[jeebus]

Was gonna make a Boris Diaw troll, but it's already taken :depressed
Is registration open?

[FkLA]

surprised it took this long for the legion of nuthuggers to join the thread tbh

[diego]

Right, because when player A is inconsistent, passive, and has less skill than player B, it'll never show up in the numbers.

actually, if you read my post you'd see I said that player B isn't more skilled than player A, and several non-spurs fans agree on that. but skill also isn't the only measure of a player.

the numbers do show certain things, but the numbers dont show everything and I dislike it when people rely on them as a tell all. you said that lee's stats DOMINATE diaw's. Lee is better, but he is not DOMINATE better. That's why I mentioned Bogut- he has worse stats, but I would take him over Lee any day (on the spurs or any other team for that matter.)

[whitemamba]

david lee is better, but both trash tbh

[racm]

I bet Lee would only average 15 and 7 on the Spurs, tbh...

He won't get as many touches for one, simply because Pop doesn't trust anyone not named the Big three with a high usage rate.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The midrange jumpshot is his bread and butter. He isnt a legit post threat, the fact that he scores X-amount of points in the paint for GS doesnt change that.
So your response to the question "How does someone contribute nothing but jump shots off assists when he scores only 32.3% of his points off jumpers?" is "Because the stats don't matter and because I said so!".....if you think that's a legit argument, then :lol.

I'm impressed you can continue to say "The jump shot is his bread and butter" in spite of the stats that clearly say it's wrong when you have no evidence backing up the claim that jump shots are his bread and butter.


That shot would be his most effective weapon if he played for the Spurs or any other solid team with any type of post threat
So you went from saying "All he contributes on offense is jumpers off assists" to saying "Well that's all he would do on the Spurs!" Way to move the goal posts.

...his usage and contribution in the paint would be very similar to Diaws.
He'd only score 2.7 points a game off free throws and points in the paint? You're kidding yourself if you seriously think that.


Again quit acting like hes a prototypical 20-10 player or post scorer, he puts up those type of numbers because he plays for a shit team.
Quit acting like you weren't talking out of your ass when you said all he contributes on offense is jumpers off assists.

[FkLA]

Im arguing who the better player is not whether Diaws numbers on the Spurs are better than Lees on the Warriors, so why wouldnt I mention how Lees numbers/usage would change if he was on a solid team like Diaw is? :lol

Lees numbers/usage will dip (especially in the post) just with Boguts return. Just imagine how much bigger the dip would be if it was Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili returning from injury. :wow

[ElNono]

Is registration open?

dunno... I stopped when I saw the username was already taken..

[redzero]

This reminds me of that argument I had with cobbler about Wade and LeBron. Against all statistical evidence, he tried to argue that Wade is a better closer.

Some people just can't admit to being wrong.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Im arguing who the better player is not whether Diaws numbers on the Spurs are better than Lees on the Warriors, so why wouldnt I mention how Lees numbers/usage would change if he was on a solid team like Diaw is? :lol
It's one thing to mention it, it's another thing to say Lee's points off free throws and the paint will dip from 13.6 to 2.7 if he went from Golden State to San Antonio. I also never said you shouldn't mention it so I'm not sure what you're responding to. I'm guessing you're just trying to respond hoping to steer the argument further away from the assertion you made about how Lee doesn't contribute anything out of jumpers off assists.


Lees numbers/usage will dip (especially in the post) just with Boguts return. Just imagine how much bigger the dip would be if it was Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili returning from injury. :wow
Why do you keep saying Lee's usage in the post? He's a face up scorer who utilizes his athleticism against slower players. Given the fact Golden State traded someone with a usage percent over 30 for Bogut, I doubt Lee's usage takes much of a dip.

It's also hard to imagine one hypothetical based off another hypothetical.

"This dip hasn't happened yet but it's going to, just imagine how much bigger that dip would be!"

[FkLA]

It's one thing to mention it, it's another thing to say Lee's points off free throws and the paint will dip from 13.6 to 2.7 if he went from Golden State to San Antonio. I also never said you shouldn't mention it so I'm not sure what you're responding to. I'm guessing you're just trying to respond hoping to steer the argument further away from the assertion you made about how Lee doesn't contribute anything out of jumpers off assists.

It probably would dip to a very low number if he was dropped into San Antonio mid-season, received 17 mpg less, and had to play alongside the Big 3. Probably not an identical number but you get the point. :lol


Why do you keep saying Lee's usage in the post? He's a face up scorer who utilizes his athleticism against slower players. Given the fact Golden State traded someone with a usage percent over 30 for Bogut, I doubt Lee's usage takes much of a dip.

It's also hard to imagine one hypothetical based off another hypothetical.

"This dip hasn't happened yet but it's going to, just imagine how much bigger that dip would be!"

Less opportunities to do that when you have a legit center in the middle, no ?

How are either of those not reasonable hypotheticals? :lol

[FkLA]

BTW prior to last season when his welcome had clearly been outworn, fatass Diaw played ~35 mpg every single season with Charlotte with 80+ games/yr. I dont know why you act like hes incapable of playing and contributing more than what he did for the Spurs last season. :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It probably would dip to a very low number if he was dropped into San Antonio mid-season, received 17 mpg less, and had to play alongside the Big 3. Probably not an identical number but you get the point. :lol
He wouldn't drop 17 mpg because he's not a fat slob of shit and is actually in shape. I'm surprise the GNSF per minute argument took that long :lol.

And no, I don't get the point. David Lee would score noticeably more than 2.7 off points in the paint/free throws if he went to the Spurs. Nazr Mohammed scored more than 2.7 points off free throws/in the paint when he was on the Spurs.




Less opportunities to do that when you have a legit center in the middle, no ?

How are either of those not reasonable hypotheticals? :lol
Lee would get more touches with Monte Ellis no longer there. I think the bigger reason why his production would go down is actually moving from C to PF and getting less mismatches, but Lee is a good enough scorer where he'd find a way to score points on a good team.

I'm not saying they're unreasonable, I'm saying your entire argument is based off hypotheticals and you've taken it a step further by making one hypothetical based off another hypothetical.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

BTW prior to last season when his welcome had clearly been outworn, fatass Diaw played ~35 mpg every single season with Charlotte with 80+ games/yr. I dont know why you act like hes incapable of playing and contributing more than what he did for the Spurs last season. :lol
What he's capable of and what he actually does are two different things.

If 2006 Diaw was how Diaw played his entire career, he'd be a lot better than David Lee.

[Monostradamus]

your entire argument is based off hypotheticals and you've taken it a step further by making one hypothetical based off another hypothetical.

:lol it's a hypothetical within a hypothetical

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkqw4gmy4E1qexz5n.png

[mavs>spurs]

^if pussyface saw that pic :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol it's a hypothetical within a hypothetical

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkqw4gmy4E1qexz5n.png
FkLA has fallen into limbo and can no longer tell what is a hypothetical and what isn't :lol

[FkLA]

He wouldn't drop 17 mpg because he's not a fat slob of shit and is actually in shape. I'm surprise the GNSF per minute argument took that long :lol.

And no, I don't get the point. David Lee would score noticeably more than 2.7 off points in the paint/free throws if he went to the Spurs. Nazr Mohammed scored more than 2.7 points off free throws/in the paint when he was on the Spurs.

Diaws minutes dropped 7 mpg just from what he was getting in Charlotte this past season. 15 mpg from what he got the prior years when he was just as fat if not fatter. His minutes didnt drop because he was out of shape and incapable of playing more tbh.

Nazr Mohammed was the starting center and getting more than 20 mpg.


Lee would get more touches with Monte Ellis no longer there. I think the bigger reason why his production would go down is actually moving from C to PF and getting less mismatches, but Lee is a good enough scorer where he'd find a way to score points on a good team.

I'm not saying they're unreasonable, I'm saying your entire argument is based off hypotheticals and you've taken it a step further by making one hypothetical based off another hypothetical.

Lee has never been on a good team, youre using a hypothetical yourself. And thats really the only way to compare players that are in two completely different situations...I dont see why me using reasonable hypotheticals is a big deal.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I used one hypothetical in an argument that otherwise used stats and stuff that's already happened.

Your argument is based entirely off hypotheticals and and hypotheticals within hypotheticals

The hypothetical that someone who's capable of having multiple 20 10 seasons on bad teams would find ways to score points on a good team isn't exactly a bold, going-out-on-a-limb type hypothetical. It's something pretty much anyone would agree with.

It's certainly a more reasonable hypothetical than David Lee dropping from 13.6 points off free throws/in the paint to 2.7 points off free throws/in the paint if he went from Golden State to San Antonio.

[FkLA]

Youve commented on how Lee would perform on the Spurs, how his defense would improve if he had a legit C, etc...so its not the first hypothetical youve used tbh. Your stats compare a player who was thrown mid-season into a contender and played 20 mpg and had career low numbers vs a player who played 37 mpg for a lottery team and had career high numbers.

You sure showed me. :lol

[FkLA]

It's certainly a more reasonable hypothetical than David Lee dropping from 13.6 points off free throws/in the paint to 2.7 points off free throws/in the paint if he went from Golden State to San Antonio.

What if his minutes were slashed to 20 mpg, would the hypothetical be reasonable then ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Youve commented on how Lee would perform on the Spurs, how his defense would improve if he had a legit C, etc...so its not the first hypothetical youve used tbh. Your stats compare a player who was thrown mid-season into a contender and played 20 mpg and had career low numbers vs a player who played 37 mpg for a lottery team and had career high numbers.

You sure showed me. :lol
You specifically said you'd take post-buyout Diaw (as in the player thrown mid-season into a contender playing 20 MPG and had career low numbers) over David Lee. They're your words, not mine. I didn't have to show you, you just said something incredibly stupid.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What if his minutes were slashed to 20 mpg, would the hypothetical be reasonable then ?
No, because his minutes wouldn't get slashed. You, and Spurfan in general, act like there's some minute fairy who comes along and slashes minutes as he pleases arbitrarily regardless of whether or not the players' minutes should get cut. There's no reason to think David Lee's minutes would get slashed to 20 MPG just because Diaw's did.

[Latarian Milton]

ain't the guys who picked diaw over lee the same ones who thought manu > dirk?

[FkLA]

You specifically said you'd take post-buyout Diaw (as in the player thrown mid-season into a contender playing 20 MPG and had career low numbers) over David Lee. They're your words, not mine. I didn't have to show you, you just said something incredibly stupid.

Over Lee in the same situation, or on any other contender. Pretty sure I made it clear that I thought Lee is better at staying motivated and putting up numbers on lottery teams.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Over Lee in the same situation, or on any other contender
:lol changing what you said
:lol adding qualifiers
:lol moving the goal posts

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

But David Lee, in that same situation, wouldn't get dropped to 20 MPG, and would produce more than 4 points and 4 rebounds :lol

[FkLA]

No, because his minutes wouldn't get slashed. You, and Spurfan in general, act like there's some minute fairy who comes along and slashes minutes as he pleases arbitrarily regardless of whether or not the players' minutes should get cut. There's no reason to think David Lee's minutes would get slashed to 20 MPG just because Diaw's did.

Actually Spurs' midseason aquisitions getting limited minutes in the past suggests that his minutes would get slashed. Your assumption that Diaw only played 20 mpg because hes a 'fat slob' incapable of playing more is what has no basis considering he was playing ~35 mpg, 80+ games/yr in Charlotte. :lol

[FkLA]

:lol changing what you said
:lol adding qualifiers
:lol moving the goal posts

lol how so? from your 'gems' post:


:lol stats

Ill give you the fact that Lee has more motivation and a better ability to put up numbers on lottery teams. He wouldnt be more than 4th-5th best player on a top team though just like Diaw, and in that role Id take Boris tbh.

Obviously GS isnt a top team and Lee isnt the 4th-5th best player on that team. Ive maintained my stance throughout the argument tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Actually Spurs' midseason aquisitions getting limited minutes in the past suggests that his minutes would get slashed. Your assumption that Diaw only played 20 mpg because hes a 'fat slob' incapable of playing more is what has no basis considering he was playing ~35 mpg, 80+ games/yr in Charlotte. :lol
Well Nazr Mohammed was a midseason acquisition and you JUST SAID he played more minutes than Diaw (even though he didn't and you were making more stuff up :lol)

David Lee isn't comparable to other midseason acquisitions (Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Mohammed). He's better than all of them and the Spurs would never get him at some bargain basement cost.

So why did Diaw's minutes get cut since you seem to know something I don't?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol how so? from your 'gems' post:



Obviously GS isnt a top team and Lee isnt the 4th-5th best player on that team. Ive maintained my stance throughout the argument tbh.
Here was your original post:

Honestly despite his fatassness Id take the post-buyout Diaw over Lee.
And before you try to claim that's taken out of context, that was your entire post.

Since then you've been non-stop adding qualifiers and hypotheticals to that original statement :lol

[Latarian Milton]

lee is the better player for damn sure but he also earns 100X more than diaw does, so the fat french slob seems a better option for the spurs & their cheapass owner


:lol playoff ticket sold $2

[FkLA]

Well Nazr Mohammed was a midseason acquisition and you JUST SAID he played more minutes than Diaw (even though he didn't and you were making more stuff up :lol)

David Lee isn't comparable to other midseason acquisitions (Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Mohammed). He's better than all of them and the Spurs would never get him at some bargain basement cost.

So why did Diaw's minutes get cut since you seem to know something I don't?

I fucked up on the mpg for Mohammed :lol

Hes also a significantly worse defender than all of them. Gooden was statistically a better scorer/rebounder than all of them as well and he hardly cracked the rotation. Diaws minutes were likely cut because thats how Pop has always handled midseason acquisitions, not because hes a fatass incapable of playing more.


Here was your original post:

And before you try to claim that's taken out of context, that was your entire post.

Since then you've been non-stop adding qualifiers and hypotheticals to that original statement :lol

Kinda figured that it was self-explanatory that I wasnt claiming Id take 4-4 over 20-10 tbh. Either way I cleared it up a whole two posts later in the post I quoted...so why have you been arguing with me for hours since then? :lol

[ElNono]

:lol playoff ticket sold $2

that's why the Spurs don't have money to sign any FA :cry

[FkLA]

Boiled down::

FkLA/Boris Diaw: 1

DoK/David Lee: 0

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I fucked up on the mpg for Mohammed :lol

Hes also a significantly worse defender than all of them. Gooden was statistically a better scorer/rebounder than all of them as well and he hardly cracked the rotation.
Yet Gooden managed to do better than 4 points and 4 rebounds :lol


Diaws minutes were likely cut because thats how Pop has always handled midseason acquisitions
So you can't give any reasons specific to Diaw but rather because you think Popovich blindly cuts the minutes of mid season acquisitions regardless of who the player is :lol




Kinda figured that it was self-explanatory that I wasnt claiming Id take 4-4 over 20-10 tbh.
If I was able to explain to myself why anyone would think Boris Diaw is a better basketball player than David Lee, then I'd be able to understand human stupidity a lot better than I do. I'd probably have more hispanic friends.


Either way I cleared it up a whole two posts later in the post I quoted...so why have you been arguing with me for hours since then? :lol
Because even after the countless lane changes and qualifiers, what you're saying is still retarded. Saying you'd chose Boris Diaw because of his defense is pretty stupid. No one has ever considered defense an asset of Diaw's except for Spurs fans in the last 4 months.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Boiled down::

FkLA/Boris Diaw: 1

DoK/David Lee: 0
:lmao thinking you won this argument

Here's the real score:

DoK: 30

FkLA: 14

even when some of the 14 were people who voted Diaw as a joke :lol

[BUMP]

No one has ever considered defense an asset of Diaw's except for Spurs fans in the last 4 months.

tbh ever since the game at San Antonio where Dirk had a terrible shooting game and Diaw was guarding him at times, he was permanently etched as a great defender in the minds of Spur fans while ignoring how he was Dirk's turnstile in Phoenix

[FkLA]

Yet Gooden managed to do better than 4 points and 4 rebounds :lol

Yet not a single person would tell you Gooden was a better player for the Spurs that half season than Diaw was last season, shattering your stats argument. :lol


So you can't give any reasons specific to Diaw but rather because you think Popovich blindly cuts the minutes of mid season acquisitions regardless of who the player is :lol

Pop chooses how many minutes players play not Diaw. I cant say Im 100% sure thats why he only played 20 mpg, but Id say its more likely than because hes a fat slob whos incapable of playing more.


If I was able to explain to myself why anyone would think Boris Diaw is a better basketball player than David Lee, then I'd be able to understand human stupidity a lot better than I do. I'd probably have more hispanic friends.


Because even after the countless lane changes and qualifiers, what you're saying is still retarded. Saying you'd chose Boris Diaw because of his defense is pretty stupid. No one has ever considered defense an asset of Diaw's except for Spurs fans in the last 4 months.

Not just because hes a better defender, dont twist my argument lol. He also has a better shot, probably a better post game, and he facilitates for his teammates. Lee is a better rebounder though and hes better at posting double doubles for lottery teams. :tu

[FkLA]

tbh ever since the game at San Antonio where Dirk had a terrible shooting game and Diaw was guarding him at times, he was permanently etched as a great defender in the minds of Spur fans while ignoring how he was Dirk's turnstile in Phoenix

Im not calling Diaw a great defender. And tbf Diggler has made alot of players his turnstile.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yet not a single person would tell you Gooden was a better player for the Spurs that half season than Diaw was last season, shattering your stats argument. :lol
It shatters your notion that Lee would drop down to Diaw's scoring level. I never said Gooden was better than Diaw.....Lee would rebound WAY better than Gooden did.




Pop chooses how many minutes players play not Diaw. I cant say Im 100% sure thats why he only played 20 mpg, but Id say its more likely than because hes a fat slob whos incapable of playing more.
Your saying that Popovich cuts a players' minutes arbitrarily for no reason specific to the player. I somehow doubt that.




Not just because hes a better defender, dont twist my argument lol. He also has a better shot, probably a better post game, and he facilitates for his teammates. Lee is a better rebounder though and hes better at posting double doubles for lottery teams. :tu
:lol going back on what you said. I thought he had a "solid jumpshot and semi-decent post game/ability to finish around the basket just like Lee" like you said here after I provided stats showing how much of a superior scorer Lee is:

I never said Diaw was any less reliant than Lee. Youre acting like I said Diaw is a great one-on-one scorer. :lol

I said aside from having a solid jumpshot and semi-decent post game/ability to finish around the basket just like Lee, he also has an ability to be a facilitator that Lee doesnt have. Which is why Im asking you why youre acting like Diaws offensive contributions start and end with the amount of points he scores ?
Now you're going back on that? Which one is it?

:lol continuing to contradict yourself

[Pelicans78]

Can't believe this is a real conversation. It's obvious Diaw is a max player. Not sure why the Spurs low balled him. Worse, he accepted the low-ball offer.

[FkLA]

It shatters your notion that Lee would drop down to Diaw's scoring level. I never said Gooden was better than Diaw.....Lee would rebound WAY better than Gooden did.

Another hypothetical by the same guy bashing hypotheticals. :lol

And when did I say Lees scoring would drop down to Boris' level ?


Your saying that Popovich cuts a players' minutes arbitrarily for no reason specific to the player. I somehow doubt that.

There is a reason actually. Theyre all mid-season acquisitions.


:lol going back on what you said. I thought he had a "solid jumpshot and semi-decent post game/ability to finish around the basket just like Lee" like you said here after I provided stats showing how much of a superior scorer Lee is:

Now you're going back on that? Which one is it?

:lol continuing to contradict yourself

Dude you nitpick at shit so much. First the 2.7 stuff and now this. :lol

Im not going back on anything. Me using the word similar or like isnt the same thing as me saying theyre identical. Lee does have a solid shot just like Diaw, probably less range though. Neither of their post games are anything special either, Id give the slight edge to Diaw though. Its not that hard tbh

[FkLA]

Lets just bump this mid-season though. Boris will prove me right yet again tbh. :toast

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Another hypothetical by the same guy bashing hypotheticals. :lol

And when did I say Lees scoring would drop down to Boris' level ?
Right here:

his usage and contribution in the paint would be very similar to Diaws.
You said it would be "very similar to Diaw"....here comes some semantics about how that's different.



There is a reason actually. Theyre all mid-season acquisitions.
So he drops minutes blindly because a player is a mid season acquisition? That's also something I doubt.




Dude you nitpick at shit so much. First the 2.7 stuff and now this. :lol

Im not going back on anything. Me using the word similar or like isnt the same thing as me saying theyre identical. Lee does have a solid shot just like Diaw, probably less range though. Neither of their post games are anything special either, Id give the slight edge to Diaw though. Its not that hard tbh
Here's a previous post of yours about their jump shots and interior scoring:

I never said Diaw was any different than Lee in those areas btw
So now you are saying Diaw is different in those areas? Which is it? Were you lying then or are you lying now?


I'm pretty sure "not being different at all" is the same thing as "identical" :lmao:lmao

[FkLA]

:lmao wtf man

If you read the posts before and after that one, the argument in question at that time was assisted jumpshots. Neither of them are one-on-one players that get their jumpshots off on isos, they both get most of them off of assists. Theyre not any different in that sense not in the sense that their jumpshots are identically as good (or bad). :lol

Youre digging too deep brah. Like I said lets just wait till the season starts.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So what you're saying is that Diaw is a better ball handler, has more range on his jumper than Lee, and has a slightly better inside game, but you admit Lee would score more points than Diaw does in Diaw's role.

That makes tons of sense :lol

[100%duncan]

:cry I voted David Lee so DOK wont e-bully me no more :cry

[FkLA]

bump for thin boris

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/487431_10151037430526981_139280799_n.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fA6XYLMABf0
0:45

[DAF86]

Is DUNCANownsKOBE really acting like if saying that Diaw is better than Lee some amazing dumb homerish thing to do?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Is DUNCANownsKOBE (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=26386) really acting like if saying that Diaw is better than Lee some amazing dumb homerish thing to do?

me and every other non-Spurs fan

[ElNono]

^ brah, don't toss us all into the same bag, tbh...

[DAF86]

me and every other non-Spurs fan

Sorry but I just don't see Lee as a player that is in some different level than a player like Boris Diaw. If you put a gun on my head and make me chose I would probably pick Lee but I could definitely see the case for a guy picking Diaw over him.

And yeah, I know Lee averages like 20 ppg but so did Richard Jefferson at some point. If someday Lee is able to make it to at least a semi-decent team and performs this way I might change my mind but 'till then I can't.

[FkLA]

Its just dumb to act like Lee is a prototypical 20-10 player. If he was one then itd be homerish to compare Diaw to him but he isnt so you take his stats with a grain of salt. Bargnani is another good example up in Toronto, his stats are nicer than a bunch of PF/Cs that Id consider better.

[benefactor]

Straight up...Lee easily. Diaw's on that frenchie discount though so I wouldn't trade one for the other at this present time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Sorry but I just don't see Lee as a player that is in some different level than a player like Boris Diaw. If you put a gun on my head and make me chose I would probably pick Lee but I could definitely see the case for a guy picking Diaw over him.

And yeah, I know Lee averages like 20 ppg but so did Richard Jefferson at some point. If someday Lee is able to make it to at least a semi-decent team and performs this way I might change my mind but 'till then I can't.

Peak Richard Jefferson is a much better player than Diaw.

[mavs>spurs]

i love how fkla refuses to look at stats in the argument saying that lee puts up numbers on a bad team whenever diaw couldn't even put up half those numbers on the fucking bobcats

[DAF86]

Peak Richard Jefferson is a much better player than Diaw.

Peak Jefferson wasn't even half as good as Diaw on the Spurs, unless you think that Jefferson went from peak (that 20 ppg season with the Bucks) to worst part of his career (absolute crap on the Spurs) in one off-season.

[benefactor]

:lol

At least get your player history right if you going make an argument.

[mavs>spurs]

Peak Jefferson wasn't even half as good as Diaw on the Spurs, unless you think that Jefferson went from peak (that 20 ppg season with the Bucks) to worst part of his career (absolute crap on the Spurs) in one off-season.

peak jefferson played in new jersey

[DAF86]

:lol

At least get your player history right if you going make an argument.

Who are you talking to?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1006/richard-jefferson

[DAF86]

peak jefferson played in new jersey

And he maintained that peak through his year on the Bucks, then suddenly became crap at age 29 on the Spurs.

[benefactor]

You aren't that dumb are you? Look up a couple of years. He averaged 20/7/4 on almost 50% shooting in Jersey in 05/06.

[DD]

i love how fkla refuses to look at stats in the argument saying that lee puts up numbers on a bad team whenever diaw couldn't even put up half those numbers on the fucking bobcats

Gotta love how this truth bomb was conveniently ignored by the Diaw Party.

[benefactor]

And he maintained that peak through his year on the Bucks, then suddenly became crap at age 29 on the Spurs.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7fyG2TcUNUg/TiVuGtyggsI/AAAAAAAAGNQ/uDbKNivUPGU/s1600/goalposts.jpg

[ElNono]

i love how fkla refuses to look at stats in the argument saying that lee puts up numbers on a bad team whenever diaw couldn't even put up half those numbers on the fucking bobcats

this imo... the next time Diaw puts 20/10 consistently will be his first time...

[DAF86]

You aren't that dumb are you? Look up a couple of years. He averaged 20/7/4 on almost 50% shooting in Jersey in 05/06.

So peak means just one year? I don't think that anybody in that '08/'09 season would have dared say that Jefferson was past his prime.

[benefactor]

So peak means just one year? I don't think that anybody in that '08/'09 season would have dared say that Jefferson was past his prime.
:lol

Isn't that what you said with the Milwaukee comment?

He was at his peak in NJ. He has several seasons that were better statistically overall than the Milwaukee season. All those years in NJ he was better than Diaw is now. It's stupid to think otherwise.

[DAF86]

i love how fkla refuses to look at stats in the argument saying that lee puts up numbers on a bad team whenever diaw couldn't even put up half those numbers on the fucking bobcats


Gotta love how this truth bomb was conveniently ignored by the Diaw Party.

Too easy. Just look at the shape Diaw was on those Bobcats, he didn't give a fuck. Boris is the prototypical good team player. Then there's also the fact that he isn't a scorer and he never cared to be one.

Going back to the Jefferson comparisson. Bruce Bowen never scored 20 ppg on a season like Richard did many times but who would you rather have on your team?

[DD]

Oh, so he's a lazy fat-ass?

I'll take Lee, then. Too easy.

[DAF86]

:lol

Isn't that what you said with the Milwaukee comment?

No, what I implied with that comment is that once he got to a team that didn't fit with his skillset he sucked. I think the same could happen with Lee. David Lee isn't one of those special talents that you know for sure would do ok on every team he plays for.


He was at his peak in NJ. He has several seasons that were better statistically overall than the Milwaukee season. All those years in NJ he was better than Diaw is now. It's stupid to think otherwise.

Again, everybody thought Jefferson was at his peak when he came to the Spurs (from a physical standpoint he most certainly was) and then he sucked. He didn't suck 'cause he wasn't at his peak, he sucked because he wasn't a good fit.

[ED-209]

Too easy. Just look at the shape Diaw was on those Bobcats, he didn't give a fact. Boris is the prototypical good team player. Then there's also the fact that he isn't a scorer and he never cared to be one.

Going back to the Jefferson comparisson. Bruce Bowen never scored 20 ppg on a season like Richard did many times but who would you rather have on your team?
You are in violation of ST Penal Code 1.13 Section 9, Knowingly Posting Retarded Opinions, put your keyboard away immediately. You have 20 seconds to comply.

[DAF86]

You are in violation of ST Penal Code 1.13 Section 9, Knowingly Posting Retarded Opinions, put your keyboard away immediately. You have 20 seconds to comply.

Very neat and original troll. I wish I would have thought of it first, tbh.

[ED-209]

Very neat and original troll. I wish I would have thought of it first, tbh.
You have 10 seconds to comply...

[DAF86]

Please don't kill me.

[DD]

Please don't kill me.

I think you better do what he says, Mr. Kinney

[ED-209]

Please don't kill me.
5....4....3....2....1....I am now authorized to use physical force.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMihmYf4WJI

[DAF86]

Bitching! scene, tbh.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lee might be a 20-10 player, but are those ststs correlated to wins? or just blatant statpadding?

[ace3g]

5....4....3....2....1....I am now authorized to use physical force.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMihmYf4WJI

Old ED-209 meet New ED-209

http://www.omnicorp.com/images/slides/ed-209.jpg

[mavs>spurs]

but are those ststs correlated to wins?

are boris'? yall fuckin idiots you

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lee might be a 20-10 player, but are those ststs correlated to wins? or just blatant statpadding?
I'm sorry, I can't hear that over the sound of you watching anime.

[mavs>spurs]

I'm sorry, I can't hear that over the sound of you watching anime.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1025508_o.gif

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao

[FkLA]

i love how fkla refuses to look at stats in the argument saying that lee puts up numbers on a bad team whenever diaw couldn't even put up half those numbers on the fucking bobcats

I love how mavs>spurs ignores the fact that I conceded long ago that Lee is way better at staying motivated and stat-padding on shit teams. Lee put up 20-10 on a fast paced GS team with a bunch of injuries where he was likely the 2nd option; something he wouldnt be on a good team. Especially not if he was thrown into the Spurs mid-season.

[flipspursfan]

I would take David Lee over Boris Diaw. Simply put, David Lee is a scorer, a better rebounder and a bigger body. Some argue that he's just a 4th or 5th option on the best teams but isn't Diaw?

[flipspursfan]

Also, it's infuriating that with Diaw's skillset, he can't even carry a team. He's 6'8" or 6'9" for God's sakes.

[Raven]

I like David Lee as a player, but he just isn't a winner or a decent defender...

[FkLA]

I would take David Lee over Boris Diaw. Simply put, David Lee is a scorer, a better rebounder and a bigger body. Some argue that he's just a 4th or 5th option on the best teams but isn't Diaw?

Thats been my point the whole time, which is why you take his 20-10 with a grain of salt cause he wouldnt put those kind of stats on good teams. Comparing who would be a better 4th-5th best player on a team its pretty close and taking Diaw isnt really homerish. Lee is a better rebounder and scorer but Id rather have Diaw because of his range, ability to facilitate, and the fact that hes not a terrible defender.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Boris Diaw is not any better of a defender than Diaw. This is a classic GNSF fallacy of assuming a player who plays for the Spurs is a much better defender than a player who doesn't play for the Spurs.

[FkLA]

No, not really. Saying Diaw is a better defender than Lee is pretty reasonable, not because Diaw is a defensive stopper but because Lee is just that terrible on that end.

[Raven]

Boris Diaw is not any better of a defender than Diaw. This is a classic GNSF fallacy of assuming a player who plays for the Spurs is a much better defender than a player who doesn't play for the Spurs.

i don't think that's true... I mean, Lee was really only part of awful defensive teams while Diaw has been an integral part of a Charlotte playoff team.. Also, San Antonio's D made major strides when Diaw came..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So your argument regarding who's individual's defense is is which player is on a better defensive team. I truly admire the way Spurfan uses arguments that don't have any logical fallacies :tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Lee is just that terrible on that end.
Is the David Lee who's extremely terrible on defense also the David Lee who's bread and butter is midrange jumpers?

[FkLA]

Are you really trying to argue that David Lee isnt a bad defensive player? :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Are you really trying to argue that David Lee isnt a bad defensive player? :lol

I'm arguing he's no worse than Diaw, and that he isn't the historically bad defensive player you're portraying him as.

[benefactor]

I don't remember Diaw being a great defender on the Suns. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[DD]

It's human nature for fans to hype their own scrub players. We've seen this with Gary Neal and Danny Green too--both of which were on the fast-track to slangin rock before Pop picked them up.

[FkLA]

I'm arguing he's no worse than Diaw, and that he isn't the historically bad defensive player you're portraying him as.

Based on what? I dont think Lee has ever shown anything to suggest hes not a bad defender. Diaw showed more defensively just in his short stint with the Spurs, which admittedly wasnt anything special, than Lee ever has.


I don't remember Diaw being a great defender on the Suns. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Dont get why the word great is being thrown around. I dont think Ive ever called Diaw a defensive stopper, hes simply not a liability which is more than you can say for Lee.

[Raven]

So your argument regarding who's individual's defense is is which player is on a better defensive team. I truly admire the way Spurfan uses arguments that don't have any logical fallacies :tu

well if he wasn't terrible in one or two seasons, that's one or two seasons more than Lee, so yeah, it's an argument.. I mean, it's not a strong argument, but still stronger than considering rebounds or whatever...

[DAF86]

I don't remember Diaw being a great defender on the Suns. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Here you go:


Defense: Capable of defending almost any position depending on the matchup, and is often forced to due to Phoenix’s limitations with Steve Nash. Has great length and is extremely crafty on this end of the floor. Doesn’t force many turnovers or block many shots. Has the size to defend the post and the quickness to defend the perimeter. Shows good footwork on the defensive end and will get in a good stance on the ball. Seems to put a good effort in on this end of the court. Won’t get many rebounds, tending to look for transition opportunities rather than help out on the glass. Not a dominant presence, but is useful due to the number of positions he can defend.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Boris-Diaw-2220/

[benefactor]

Dont get why the word great is being thrown around. I dont think Ive ever called Diaw a defensive stopper, hes simply not a liability which is more than you can say for Lee.
Ok...I don't remember Diaw even being a good defender on the Suns. So since the whole scenario is situationally hypothetical, one could assume...like Diaw...Lee could at least be as good of a defender if placed on a team where defense is stressed like Diaw was. We already know he's a much better offensive player and rebounder.

[benefactor]

DX can be hit and miss. I'd rather hear it from a fan who watched him over multiple seasons with them.

[DAF86]

DX can be hit and miss. I'd rather hear it from a fan who watched him over multiple seasons with them.

The fact that DoK didn't jump all over your comment to tell that Diaw was an awful defender should tell you something.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact that DoK didn't jump all over your comment to tell that Diaw was an awful defender should tell you something.

It should tell you that I was taking a midterm and was kinda busy.

As for Diaw's defense on the Suns, he was a good one on one post defender because he was fat and it's hard to get position on fat people cause they're fat. Outside of that he was pretty worthless.

[mavs>spurs]

where he was likely the 2nd option; something he wouldnt be on a good team

diaw wasn't even good enough to be the second option on the bobcats

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

well if he wasn't terrible in one or two seasons, that's one or two seasons more than Lee, so yeah, it's an argument.. I mean, it's not a strong argument, but still stronger than considering rebounds or whatever...

So the fact he was on a good defensive team automatically means he wasn't a terrible defender? The fact Lee was on a bad defensive team automatically means he's a terrible defender?

This is vintage Spurfan citing things that can't be quantified because Lee has an advantage over Diaw in everything that can be quantified.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Ok...I don't remember Diaw even being a good defender on the Suns.

Btw, FkLA/Raven logic already dictates Diaw was a horrible defender on the Suns. The 2006-2008 Suns were bad defensive teams which automatically means Diaw was a horrible defender during that time span.

[mavs>spurs]

So the fact he was on a good defensive team automatically means he wasn't a terrible defender? The fact Lee was on a bad defensive team automatically means he's a terrible defender?

This is vintage Spurfan citing things that can't be quantified because Lee has an advantage over Diaw in everything that can be quantified.


http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1025508_o.gif?

[FkLA]

diaw wasn't even good enough to be the second option on the bobcats


I love how mavs>spurs ignores the fact that I conceded long ago that Lee is way better at staying motivated and stat-padding on shit teams.

[mavs>spurs]

so whenever guys aren't that good on bad teams and then go to a good team and still aren't that good it's becuase they still aren't motivated? lol

[FkLA]

Whats your reason for saying Lee isnt any worse of a defender than Diaw, DoK? He hasnt shown anything in NY or GS to suggest that he could be even an average defender.

[FkLA]

so whenever guys aren't that good on bad teams and then go to a good team and still aren't that good it's becuase they still aren't motivated? lol

?

Diaw has been known to be lazy, I doubt he trims down like he did this off-season if he was still in Charlotte. When it comes to putting up stats on bad teams David Lee is better. Who I want as a 4th-5th best player on my team is a different discussion in which I would take Diaw. Drew Gooden, Andrea Bargnani, David Lee, Dejuan Blair, etc these niggas aint shit just guys with nice stats.

[mavs>spurs]

why do spurs fans try to pretend like boris diaw is this all-nba defender?

[FkLA]

Why do finance majors try to distort whats being said ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Whats your reason for saying Lee isnt any worse of a defender than Diaw, DoK? He hasnt shown anything in NY or GS to suggest that he could be even an average defender.
Taller, more athletic, harder worker.

Also the fact that Diaw is a well below average defender, just like Lee is.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why do finance majors try to distort whats being said ?

Because you're talking out of both ends of your mouth. After describing why you think Diaw is a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better defender than Lee, you qualify it with, "Don't get me wrong, I still think Diaw isn't a good defender!" to avoid getting called out for being a homer for glorifying Diaw's defense, even though that's exactly what you're doing by pretending Diaw's defense has ever been why you'd take him over another player.

[mavs>spurs]

alstott.gif

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's the equivalent of when killakobe81 writes a 5 paragraph diatribe about every reason why Michael Jordan sucks and every reason why Kobe Bryant is good then ends it with, "Don't get me wrong, I'd still take Jordan over Kobe!" because he knows if he doesn't add that qualifier he'll get made fun of for saying Kobe > Jordan.

[mavs>spurs]

between utsa, being mexican, shemale porn, the retarded benefactor arguments, getting owned by elnono, and shitty opinions like diaw>lee this guy should just stop posting. it isn't ever going to get any better for you here little homie.

[FkLA]

When did I say Diaw was a waaaaay better defender or imply that Diaw is an all-defense caliber defender? Ive always said hes an average defender, which is still better than Lee. I take Diaw over Lee because of this and other reasons, not solely because of that. If your dumb enough to argue that Diaw is just as bad of a defender as Lee even though he hasnt shown anything to suggest that (your sole reason basically being that he has slightly better physical tools) than theres really no point in this argument though. :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact you're saying he's an average defender is glorifying his defense.

So how much better is Diaw's defense than Lee's? Be specific (even though your entire argument is based off subjective, unspecific and vague opinions).

[FkLA]

between utsa, being mexican, shemale porn, the retarded benefactor arguments, getting owned by elnono, and shitty opinions like diaw>lee this guy should just stop posting. it isn't ever going to get any better for you here little homie.

my bball takes>>>>>>>>>your basketball takes little nigga


The fact you're saying he's an average defender is glorifying his defense.

So how much better is Diaw's defense than Lee's? Be specific (even though your entire argument is based off subjective, unspecific and vague opinions).

Diaw is average, Lee is terrible. How much more specific do you want, you want me to quantify it? :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

my bball takes>>>>>>>>>your basketball takes little nigga

Wow, you really showed him! If you used a few more arrows m>s would have probably had to kill himself.

[mavs>spurs]

sorry buddy i don't really put much stock into your opinions

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Diaw is average, Lee is terrible. How much more specific do you want, you want me to quantify it? :lol


Oh cool, more usage of vague and subjective rhetoric like "average" and "terrible"

If that's as specific as you're capable of being, then that's all that needs to be said, but yes, please do quantify your argument.

[FkLA]

Wow, you really showed him! If you used a few more arrows m>s would have probably had to kill himself.

Wow you really made my post look dumb! Its hilarious when you use this method to put down posts.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Wow you really made my post look dumb! Its hilarious when you use this method to put down posts.

Not as funny as when you think declaring yourself the winner of an argument makes it so you won the argument.

[FkLA]

Oh cool, more usage of vague and subjective rhetoric like "average" and "terrible"

If that's as specific as you're capable of being, then that's all that needs to be said, but yes, please do quantify your argument.

This is just dumb and desperate. You want me to give each player a numerical rating or what?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

This is just dumb and desperate. You want me to give each player a numerical rating or what?

Why do you think quantifying your argument is such a tough task?

I know this might seem hard to believe, but an argument that X>Y because you subjectively label X as average and Y as terrible without have any objective evidence backing either subjective label isn't exactly winning any speech & debate competitions anytime soon.

[FkLA]

So youre saying you have no idea what a terrible defender is? Or an average one? Im sure youve seen Lee play defense. Im sure youve seen Diaw play defense.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So youre saying you have no idea what a terrible defender is? Or an average one? Im sure youve seen Lee play defense. Im sure youve seen Diaw play defense.
The terms "terrible defender" and "average defender" are both completely subjective and vague. So no, I have no idea what you mean by "terrible" and "average". You also label David Lee as someone who relies completely on midrange jumpers off assists when they account for a very small portion of his scoring, so your idea of "average" and "terrible" is especially lost on me.

[FkLA]

A liability on that side of the ball. I even gave examples of other players of the same mold as Lee. Its not that hard tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Classifying someone as "a liability on that side of the ball" is also subjective.

Why haven't you quantified them on defense yet?

[phxspurfan]

This thread seems to leave Spurs fans jizzing over the fact that Boris Diaw can revert back to his old form when he was with the Suns. I would much rather have David Lee over Boris Diaw any given day simply because the spurs have not had a big man who can average a double-double outside of Duncan since D-Rob left.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nWXolXspBEw/TaGbG-Y3HWI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/IByO-f9mAys/s1600/drew-gooden-knock-socks.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Splitter_right.JPG/220px-Splitter_right.JPG

http://www.nba.com/media/act_dejuan_blair.jpg

[FkLA]

Classifying someone as "a liability on that side of the ball" is also subjective.

Why haven't you quantified them on defense yet?

So basically you want to look strictly at stats, both offensively and defensively, to determine who is better at each area ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So basically you want to look strictly at stats, both offensively and defensively, to determine who is better at each area ?
No, but that sounds a lot better than looking strictly at subjective labels Spurs fans give Spurs players.

Given your subjective label of David Lee as "someone who only contributes midrange jumpers off assists," I'm probably not gonna trust your subjective label of Lee's defense any time soon either.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nWXolXspBEw/TaGbG-Y3HWI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/IByO-f9mAys/s1600/drew-gooden-knock-socks.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Splitter_right.JPG/220px-Splitter_right.JPG

http://www.nba.com/media/act_dejuan_blair.jpg
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao I really hope this post isn't serious

[Axe Murderer]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nWXolXspBEw/TaGbG-Y3HWI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/IByO-f9mAys/s1600/drew-gooden-knock-socks.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Splitter_right.JPG/220px-Splitter_right.JPG

http://www.nba.com/media/act_dejuan_blair.jpg

Is there something in the Riverwalk today that's been going around?

[FkLA]

Gooden has averaged 14-10 for a good Cleveland team before. Blair 8-9 ppg and 6-7 rpg for the Spurs in limited minutes. Why wouldnt these sorry mofos average a double-double in a bad, fast-paced, injury riddled GS team ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The next time Drew Gooden averages double figure rebounds will be his first time so I am not sure where 14 10 comes from.

:lol thinking Dejuan Blair's knees wouldn't explode playing the minutes on GS Lee plays
:lol more hypotheticals about what a player might do on a certain team

[benefactor]

Not to mention Gooden is dumb as a tree branch. Bad comparison tbh.

[FkLA]

Oh, my bad I forgot you like to dwell on little shit. Drew Gooden averaged 14.4 ppg and 9.2 rpg on a good Cleveland team so why wouldnt he average a double-double on a bad, fast-paced, injury riddled GS team?

:lol making a hypothetical about Blair right before you bash hypotheticals

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Oh, my bad. Drew Gooden averaged 14.4 ppg and 9.2 rpg on a good Cleveland team so why wouldnt he average a double-double on a bad, fast-paced, injury riddled GS team?
:lmao:lmao:lmao the 2004-2005 Cavs were a good team? They missed the playoffs in a shitty ass Eastern conference.

This is exactly why your usage of subjective terms like "good" or "bad" isn't something I trust.

[FkLA]

:lmao:lmao:lmao the 2004-2005 Cavs were a good team? They missed the playoffs in a shitty ass Eastern conference.

This is exactly why your usage of subjective terms like "good" or "bad" isn't something I trust.

They had a winning record. But if you wanna dwell on that take your pick with the following two years where he averaged ~11-8.5 for them.

[Axe Murderer]

Gooden has averaged 14-10 for a good Cleveland team before. Blair 8-9 ppg and 6-7 rpg for the Spurs in limited minutes. Why wouldnt these sorry mofos average a double-double in a bad, fast-paced, injury riddled GS team ?

?

You just moved the goalposts to a golf course

[FkLA]

¿ how ?

Id take Lee over Gooden fwiw, but I still think theyre the same type of player thats really good at putting up nice empty stats. Blair too.

[mavs>spurs]

why u still posting bro

[FkLA]

my day off and girls at work :(

wat about you ?