*****Official Government Shutdown Gamethread*****

[boutons_deux]

30 Ways the Shutdown Is Already Screwing People


Kids with cancer (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303918804579109492207671138.html): 30 children who were supposed to be admitted for cancer treatment at the National Institute of Health's clinical center were put on hold, along with 170 adults.

Head Start kids (http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Federal-shutdown-local-pain-4860610.php): When a new grant didn't come in, Bridgeport, Connecticut, closed 13 Head Start facilities serving 1,000 kids. Calhoun County, Alabama, shut down its Head Start program, which serves 800 kids. Some were relocated to a local church.

Pregnant women (http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/94952/access-limited-to-clinton-library-during-shutdown): Several states had promised to pick up the tab if the US Department of Agriculture stopped funding the Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)—but not Arkansas, where 85,000 meals will no longer be provided to low income women and their children.

Babies (http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/94952/access-limited-to-clinton-library-during-shutdown): 2,000 newborn babies won't receive baby formula in Arkansas, due to those WIC cuts.

People who help pregnant women and babies (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865587420/Utahns-frustrated-by-federal-government-shutdown.html): The 16 people who administer the WIC program in Utah will be furloughed—in order to free up money to continue funding the program.

Whales (http://www.mmc.gov/commission_policies/pdfs/MMC_shutdown_plan_2013.pdf): The Marine Mammal Commission, which monitors whale populations, is on hiatus.

63-year-old Jo Elliott-Blakeslee (http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Craters-Moon-Idaho-Jo-Elliott-Blakeslee-Amy-Linkert-225988051.html): The shutdown of Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho has complicated the search for a woman who went missing in the park.

Military suicide prevention (http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/government-shutdown-florida-workes-overseas-sent-home-without-work-pay-stranded-by-lockdown): Palm Beach, Florida, television station WPTV profiled Rosemarie Spencer, a contractor with the US Army Suicide Prevention Program who was furloughed on Tuesday.

Virginia (http://portsmouth-nh.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/thousands-of-shipyard-workers-furloughed): 2,000 workers at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard were sent home on Tuesday, and commissaries in northeast and southeast Virginia, which provide inexpensive groceries to members of the military, closed (http://www.thestate.com/2013/10/01/3013777/shutdown-to-idle-us-based-military.html) on Wednesday.

Firefighters (http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2013/oct/01/government-shutdown-would-affect-moffat-county/): The Bureau of Land Management’s Little Snake Field Office in Colorado says its ability to respond to a fire is "severely limited."

Firefighter widows (http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3178641.shtml?cat=500): Heidi Adams, whose husband, Token, was killed investigating a fire in New Mexico last month, won't receive survivor benefits because there's no one at the National Forest Service to finalize the paperwork.

Fishermen (http://www.wral.com/federal-shutdown-effects-ripple-across-nc/12945723/): National Park Service blocked all access to Cape Hatteras National Seashore in North Carolina.

Domestic-violence centers (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-me-shutdown-impact-20131002,0,7335413.story): Facilities in Vermont and Montana stopped receiving reimbursement payments.

People who eat food (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57605550/nih-cdc-feeling-government-shutdowns-effects/): Eight thousand employees at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention were furloughed, including those tasked with monitoring the outbreak of foodborne illnesses.

People who cook food (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/%21ut/p/a0/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOINAg3MDC2dDbz8LQ3dDD z9wgL9vZ2dDSyCTfULsh0VAdVfMYw%21/?1dmy&current=true&urile=wcm%3Apath%3A/fsis-content/internet/main/programs-and-services/contact-centers/usda-meat-and-poultry-hotline/usda-meat-and-poultry-hotline): The USDA's food safety hotline has stopped fielding calls from people with questions about food storage and safe preparation.

Animal-semen exporters (http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/louisiana_confronts_federal_go.html): The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports, "No one in Louisiana will be able export livestock, embryos, fertilized animal eggs or animal semen." Animal semen? Yup, the USDA monitors that too.

College students (http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2021941552_shutdownday1xml.html): Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant and federal work study programs are officially on ice, as of Tuesday.

Bookworms (http://www.yumasun.com/articles/shutdown-89890-yuma-until.html): Arizona's Marine Corps Air Station Yuma closed on-base facilities including a library, day care center, youth activity center, and pool.

Park rangers (http://articles.ktuu.com/2013-10-01/past-shutdowns_42585472): 686 of Alaska's 750 National Park Service employees are staying home.

First responders (http://calhouncounty.myfoxal.com/news/news/260793-homeland-securitys-center-domestic-preparedness-shut-down-anniston): The Department of Homeland Security's Center for Domestic Preparedness in Anniston, Alabama, which trains first responders for states and municipalities, is closed.

Golfers (http://www.moffettgolf.com/): The Moffet Field Golf Course near Mountain View, California, is closed due to furloughs at the NASA facility where the 18-hole course is located.

Poor Louisianans (http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/louisiana_confronts_federal_go.html): The state Commodities Supplemental Food Program, which serves 64,000 people each month, doesn't have the funds to operate.

People with mysterious illnesses (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57605550/nih-cdc-feeling-government-shutdowns-effects/): The Undiagnosed Diseases Program at the National Institutes of Health has stopped accepting new patients, with the exception of children with life-threatening illnesses.

Meningitis researchers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-scientific-research_n_4025894.html?clear): A University of Hawaii research facility shut down.

Newt Gingrich (https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/385431376914157568): The former speaker of the House decried the closure of a "tour bus turnaround" at Mt. Vernon:

Antique-car lovers (https://www.afrh.gov/afrh/): The Armed Forces Retirement Home in Gulfport, Mississippi, canceled its "Cruisin the Coast" car festival.

Native Americans (http://www.hhs.gov/budget/fy2014/fy2014contingency_staffing_plan-rev2.pdf): The Department of Health and Human Services cut off funding to the Urban Indian Health Programs, which offer dental treatment, primary care access, and substance abuse programs.

Football players (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9754777/government-shutdown-threatens-cancellation-college-football-games-involving-service-academies): All athletic activities at service academies have been postponed, including Saturday's Navy-Air Force football game.

Goats (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303464504579109692287089928.html): 50 Nubian goats, tasked with eating poison ivy at a New Jersey historical site, were furloughed.

Klansmen (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/KKK-Rally-Gettysburg-Federal-Shutdown-225976961.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand): A planned march in Gettysburg by the Confederate Knights of the KKK was canceled because the national battlefield park is closed.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/shutdown-effects-already-screwing-people-goats

KKK! goats! Neutered Gingrich! Cajuns! Golfers! Semen! What is the world coming to?

[boutons_deux]

The Tea Party’s Last Stand


If the nation is lucky, this October will mark the beginning of the end of the Tea Party.

It is suffering from extreme miscalculation and a foolish misreading of its opponents’ intentions. This, in turn, has created a moment of enlightenment, an opening to see things that were once missed.

Many Republicans, of course, saw the disaster coming in advance of the shutdown. But they were terrified to take on a movement that is fortified by money, energy and the backing of a bloviating brigade of talk-show hosts. The assumption was that the Tea Party had become invincible inside the GOP.

People who knew better followed Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) down a path of confrontation over Obamacare. Yet even before the shutdown began, Republicans stopped talking about an outright repeal of Obamacare, as House Speaker John Boehner’s ever-changing demands demonstrated.

The extent of the rout was then underscored in the hot microphone incident last week when Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) was caught plotting strategy with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY). Paul’s words, spoken after he had finished a television interview, said more than he realized.

“I just did CNN. I just go over and over again: ‘We’re willing to compromise, we’re willing to negotiate,’” Paul said, adding this about the Democrats: “I don’t think they’ve poll tested, ‘We won’t negotiate.’”

Tellingly, Paul described the new GOP line this way: “We wanted to defund it, we fought for that, but now we’re willing to compromise on this.”

http://www.nationalmemo.com/the-tea-partys-last-stand/

Give 'em hell, Barry. Kick them in balls, Never Give An Inch.

I hear Obama was really pissed at himself for the 2011 cave in on the debt limit, implementing sequestration. So that really fortifies his will to fuck the Repugs assholes this time. and a The American People are behind him. Repugs still win on the CR at near-Paul-ian austerity. Fix that later.

[pgardn]

The democrats have the republicans in a testicle vice on this.

“This isn’t some damn game. All we want is to sit down and have a discussion,” Boehner angrily told reporters Friday.

“It’s a new dynamic, and we don’t know how far it’s going to go,” said Vin Weber, a former GOP congressman who is close to the House leadership. “All the energy in the Republican Party the last few years has come from the tea party. The notion that there might be some energy from the radical center, the people whose positions in the conservative mainstream are more center-right but who are just furious about the dysfunctionality of government — that’s different.”


The above concerns the money pouring in to defeat tea party republicans in Michigan.


And boutons is pleased with the chaos. Anything that helps democrats, even at the expense of a government that works. And the poor guy sees no parallels with the tea party. An ideologue who pretends he is for the people.


I am them. Say it Boutons.

[boutons_deux]

"The democrats have the republicans in a testicle vice on this."


so true, so wonderful. Dems out crazying the asshole crazy extremist Repugs, for one.

"defeat tea party republicans in Michigan"

aka, a fully owned subsidieary of anti-99% Kock Bros

"And boutons is pleased with the chaos"

if the chaos leads to kicking the Repugs in the head, balls, teeth, etc, I'm pleased. Repugs deserve and they MUST be stopped.

"Anything that helps democrats, even at the expense of a government that works"
You Lie

Anything that hurts the Repugs

The Repugs fabricated this crisis, it's on the Repugs to stop it.

[Wild Cobra]

WC needs a huge dose, hourly, of reality.
I'm sorry if your reality is so shitty. However, you will always remain in a shithole unless to take proactive measurements to get out of it, instead of relying on others.

[boutons_deux]

STOP MINING PUBLIC LANDS WHILE VISITORS ARE LOCKED OUT

http://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/stop-mining-public-lands-while-visitors-are-locked-out

[boutons_deux]

http://www.dccc.org/page/-/GOPShutDownSite/main.html

[boutons_deux]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d06e177085/ted-cruz-shuts-down-the-government

[boutons_deux]

Fox News owns this shutdown (http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/fox_news_owns_this_shutdown/)

http://media.salon.com/2013/10/fox_gov_shutdown-620x412.jpg


Fox News and the rest of the Republican-aligned press is making Republicans lazy. And that’s a problem.

The outcome of the shutdown fight won’t be determined by spin and cheap public relations tricks. The structure of the situation – which strongly favors the Democratic demand for a clean continuing resolution (CR) at the sequestration levels that Republicans wanted – will do that. That’s why polling indicates that more people are blaming Republicans (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/economic-confidence-shutd_n_4046099.html?utm_hp_ref=@pollster) for the problem.

But what we’ve seen in the first few days of the shutdown are a series of Republican attempts to spin things their way, everything from a 24-hour talking point last Sunday that the Senate wasn’t doing its work, to the battle of the World War II Memorial, to the series of mini-bills to open small, visible bits of the government that the House considered late in the week. With detours to “Harry Reid is in favor of cancer” and “Barack Obama says he wants the shutdown because he’s winning.”

The talking points were whirling around so fast that by midweek a handful of House Republicans wound up entirely unable to articulate what the fight was about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/03/republicans-have-no-idea-why-theyve-shut-down-the-government/), and giving ugly-sounding quotes. Indeed, some of them seemed to be arguing that the government had to be shut down over the principle that if the government was shut down, then select departments should remain open. Huh?

What all these talking points had in common, however, is that they were eagerly snarfed up by the folks at Fox News and other parts of the Republican-aligned press. The truth is that Republicans can pretty much say whatever they want, no matter what the bizarre logic and no matter what connection it has to what they were saying five minutes ago, and Fox News will totally accept it and blast it for hours or days.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/fox_news_owns_this_shutdown/

:lol

[boutons_deux]

The More People Obamacare Helps, The Crazier The GOP Must Become


This is exactly what Republicans were afraid of: people crying over Obamacare.

Bloomberg‘s Karen Weise reports (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-03/people-are-calling-this-obamacare-insurance-exchange-in-tears):

When the [Affordable Care Act] exchange opened—17 minutes later than the 8 a.m. scheduled start time—the website and call centers were flooded with inquiries. Walsh said that in the first few hours “it was just raw emotion calling in.” People eager for insurance, at times in tears, wanted to get coverage that they didn’t have before. “They were calling up saying, ‘Can I get my coverage today so I can see my doctor this afternoon?’” he says. “That is in one sense moving but also frustrating because, sure, you can sign up—but the coverage can’t be effective until Jan. 1.”


These tears were falling, of course, because Obamacare cannot get here fast enough for millions of people.

The polls on the president’s signature legislative achievement have always been easy to misread and exploit (http://www.nationalmemo.com/when-obamacare-polls-are-accurate-without-being-true/). Many Americans want the law to go further. Many Americans prefer the Affordable Care Act to Obamacare (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504784_162-57605754-10391705/jimmy-kimmel-on-obamacare-vs-the-affordable-care-act/). For the people who need the law the most, there was always frustration that it wouldn’t be implemented faster. And for many if not most Americans, there were always the lingering questions — fueled by a ridiculous propaganda campaign from the right (http://www.nationalmemo.com/senator-koch-brothers-and-others-behind-opt-out-of-obamacare-are-guilty-of-murder/) — about what the law will actually do.

For nearly all the 85 percent of Americans who have health insurance, reform will likely have no noticeable effect on their lives whatsoever, except to make their insurance stronger and their insurers more accountable. But for the 15 percent of the country that is uninsured, it will mean tears… often of joy.

Too many working poor people in red states who should be able to get fully subsidized insurance from Medicaid expansion won’t get any help in the form of subsidies at all, thanks to their state’s Republicans. For them, there will be real sobbing and real misery.

But for the rest of the uninsured — the millions who have been putting off care, the millions who have been living in fear that getting sick will cost them everything, the million with pre-existing conditions craving the freedom to pursue a career without being tied to an employer — there will be happy tears.

That’s why the GOP base hates this law.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/the-more-people-obamacare-helps-the-crazier-the-gop-must-become/

and that's why the broad-based, VRWC has been working to kill ACA. A successful means a huge Dem electoral win in 2014 and 2016.

VRWC/Repugs will also kill immigration reform, handing almost all the Latino vote to the Dems.

[SA210]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/1382003_10151746172463040_1778083316_n.jpg

[SA210]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/s720x720/1378058_581352291899809_580561607_n.jpg

[boutons_deux]

right-wingers blaming Obama for the shutdown the Repugs caused.

We finally, officially have 3 party system

Dems

Repugs

tea bagger crazies sitting in Repug seats

[AntiChrist]

lol,

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/05/its-quicker-this-way-police-officer-pushes-john-ondrasik-out-of-jefferson-memorial/

[Clipper Nation]

Fox News owns this shutdown (http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/fox_news_owns_this_shutdown/)

http://media.salon.com/2013/10/fox_gov_shutdown-620x412.jpg


Fox News and the rest of the Republican-aligned press is making Republicans lazy. And that’s a problem.

The outcome of the shutdown fight won’t be determined by spin and cheap public relations tricks. The structure of the situation – which strongly favors the Democratic demand for a clean continuing resolution (CR) at the sequestration levels that Republicans wanted – will do that. That’s why polling indicates that more people are blaming Republicans (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/economic-confidence-shutd_n_4046099.html?utm_hp_ref=@pollster) for the problem.

But what we’ve seen in the first few days of the shutdown are a series of Republican attempts to spin things their way, everything from a 24-hour talking point last Sunday that the Senate wasn’t doing its work, to the battle of the World War II Memorial, to the series of mini-bills to open small, visible bits of the government that the House considered late in the week. With detours to “Harry Reid is in favor of cancer” and “Barack Obama says he wants the shutdown because he’s winning.”

The talking points were whirling around so fast that by midweek a handful of House Republicans wound up entirely unable to articulate what the fight was about (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/03/republicans-have-no-idea-why-theyve-shut-down-the-government/), and giving ugly-sounding quotes. Indeed, some of them seemed to be arguing that the government had to be shut down over the principle that if the government was shut down, then select departments should remain open. Huh?

What all these talking points had in common, however, is that they were eagerly snarfed up by the folks at Fox News and other parts of the Republican-aligned press. The truth is that Republicans can pretty much say whatever they want, no matter what the bizarre logic and no matter what connection it has to what they were saying five minutes ago, and Fox News will totally accept it and blast it for hours or days.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/fox_news_owns_this_shutdown/

:lol



Wow, you mean to tell me that a cable news network has a distinct partisan bias? You don't say! :wow

[angrydude]

It's easy to be snarky.

http://i.imgur.com/gVviIEr.png

[boutons_deux]

10 Things Republicans Hate and Would Likely Go After Next If Dems Give In

Things Republicans hate:


#1 of all time: Social Security.
#2 of all time: Medicare.
Public schools.
Environmental Protection.
The Food and Drug Administration.
The minimum wage.
The eight-hour workday and the 40-hour workweek.
Unions and the National Labor Relations Board – the right of workers to organize.
The 47% of Americans who they say are “takers” and “moochers.”
Anything other than fossil fuels to provide energy.


http://www.alternet.org/print/10-things-republicans-hate-and-would-likely-go-after-next-if-dems-give

[boutons_deux]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5341/10093228445_e52f71acdc_z.jpg

[boutons_deux]

Republicans are breaking.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Chamber_of_Commerce), the bedrock of traditional Republicanism, now says (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/with-traditional-gop-allies-defecting-big-business-leaders-take-sides-with-obama) that it will get involved in Republican primaries by providing financial support to incumbent Republicans who vote to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. In other words, if some Republicans act responsibly and then have to face tea party challengers accusing them of being RINOs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_In_Name_Only), the Chamber will have the back of those reasonable Republicans. It's a civil war within the GOP, folks.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/06/1243759/-Endgame-is-here-Republicans-are-breaking?detail=email

[Trainwreck2100]

:lol what's hilarious is that the republicans became unintentional victims of their own gerrymandering

[Jacob1983]

Libs must be jizzing right now.

[spurraider21]

[morpheus meme] what if i told you, that both parties sucked and were full of shit [/morpheus meme]

as the parties have polarized, it is FAR less likely than an individual is actually represented by one or the other. by making it so damn black and white, the vast majority of the people, who are somewhere in the grey area, aren't accurately represented. so they just latch on to the party that is closest (even though its not that close) and then conform to that party's platform, even though those weren't their individual beliefs. thats why everybody that calls themselves a democrat sounds exactly the same on every issue, and same with republicans.

[The Reckoning]

so what happens when the feds remained shutdown, the states are meant to pick up the slack, and everything is ran more efficiently? :lol


if one of the politicians isnt such a huge pussy, he/she could significantly advance their career by playing henry clay

[Trainwreck2100]

so what happens when the feds remained shutdown, the states are meant to pick up the slack, and everything is ran more efficiently? :lol


if one of the politicians isnt such a huge pussy, he/she could significantly advance their career by playing henry clay

the south's dependency on the government teet won't allow that to happen

[boutons_deux]

so what happens when the feds remained shutdown, the states are meant to pick up the slack, and everything is ran more efficiently? :lol


we see now many $100Bs flow to the states from DC, and the states are pretty fucked when DC stops the flow, even "17%" of the flow. They can't even find the funds to keep their business of STATE parks running. States righters and the neo-secessionists, neo-Confederates don't know that or don't want their local bubbas to know. And red states wouldn't raise state/city taxes to cover the deficit left by absenece of fed funds.

eg, military is worth about 1/3 of SA's business, $25B. And $25B is disease (medical), and $25B for manufacturing. Turn that military spigot off, close all the bases, fire all the civil service, and see how well, and if, SA can fill that $25B hole. That $25B is what keeps SA's economy fairly stable compared to areas that got raped by the Banksters Great Bubble Depression.

[The Reckoning]

we see now many $100Bs flow to the states from DC, and the states are pretty fucked when DC stops the flow, even "17%" of the flow. They can't even find the funds to keep their business of STATE parks running. States righters and the neo-secessionists, neo-Confederates don't know that or don't want their local bubbas to know. And red states wouldn't raise state/city taxes to cover the deficit left by absenece of fed funds.

eg, military is worth about 1/3 of SA's business, $25B. And $25B is disease (medical), and $25B for manufacturing. Turn that military spigot off, close all the bases, fire all the civil service, and see how well, and if, SA can fill that $25B hole. That $25B is what keeps SA's economy fairly stable compared to areas that got raped by the Banksters Great Bubble Depression.


legalize pot and gambling and all your problems go away

[Trainwreck2100]

legalize pot and gambling and all your problems go away

making poor people poorer is never a good thing

[The Reckoning]

making poor people poorer is never a good thing

it's such a huge part of revenue in australia. it'd also boost tourism.

[TDMVPDPOY]

it's such a huge part of revenue in australia. it'd also boost tourism.

no, all it did was create problems...didnt help when most of the swet shops and factories close due to WTA outsourcing to asia and no textile manufacturing industry down here,

why goto a shithole to gamble, when u can goto macau or lasvegas?

[The Reckoning]

no, all it did was create problems...didnt help when most of the swet shops and factories close due to WTA outsourcing to asia and no textile manufacturing industry down here,

why goto a shithole to gamble, when u can goto macau or lasvegas?


bullshit theres pokies on every corner

[boutons_deux]

Racism and Cruelty Drive GOP Health Care Agenda

Richard Nixon had successfully engineered an even more odious plot known as his Southern Strategy. The trick was devilishly simple: Appeal to the persistent racist inclination of Southern whites by abandoning the Republican Party’s historic association with civil rights and demonizing the black victims of the South’s history of segregation.

That same divisive strategy is at work in the Republican rejection of the Affordable Care Act. GOP governors are largely in control of the 26 states, including all but Arkansas in the South, that have refused to implement the act’s provision for an expansion of Medicaid to cover the millions of American working poor who earn too much to qualify for the program now. A New York Times analysis of census data concludes that as a result of the Republican governors’ resistance, “A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help. ...”

Why anyone who claims to be pro-life would want to deny health care to single mothers is an enduring mystery in the morally mischievous ethos of the Republican Party. But the exclusion of a working poor population that skews disproportionately black in the South is simply a continuation of the divide-and-conquer politics that have informed Republican strategy since Nixon.

The game plan of gutting the Affordable Care Act despite its passage into law and before its positive outcomes are demonstrated can be traced to a “blueprint to defunding Obamacare” initialed by the GOP conservative leadership under the aegis of Heritage Action for America.

They were abetted in this decision by a Supreme Court ruling last year granting the states the option of not expanding Medicaid to cover the uninsured under the new act. As a consequence, 8 million of our fellow Americans with annual incomes of less than $19,530 for a family of three have been prevented from obtaining the health care coverage that we as a nation decided to grant them.

In the end, this is a replay of the civil rights drama that gripped the nation more than half a century ago, but back then the Republican Party, following the enlightened leadership of Dwight Eisenhower, was on the humanitarian side of the equation.

There are certainly many whites among the 435,000 cashiers, 341,000 cooks and 253,000 nurses aides who the Times estimated will be denied needed health care in the states controlled by Republican governors who have decided to veto the most important provision of the Affordable Care Act.


“In all, 6 out of 10 blacks live in the states not expanding Medicaid. In Mississippi, 56 percent of all poor and uninsured adults are black, though they account for just 38 percent of the population.”

But that also means that almost 44 percent of the poor and uninsured in Mississippi are white, and the gutting of this program that hurts them is evidence of the false consciousness that informs racist appeals.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/racism_and_cruelty_drive_gop_health_care_agenda_20 131008

[Wild Cobra]

so what happens when the feds remained shutdown, the states are meant to pick up the slack, and everything is ran more efficiently? :lol


if one of the politicians isnt such a huge pussy, he/she could significantly advance their career by playing henry clay
Thumbs up to the states that can do better than the feds micromanagement.

One size does not fit all!

[Wild Cobra]

making poor people poorer is never a good thing
Ever think that maybe that's why they are poor?

They can't control themselves...

Why give money to losers?

[clambake]

Ever think that maybe that's why they are poor?

They can't control themselves...

Why give money to losers?
so, how much is 10% of a welfare check?

[boutons_deux]

Thumbs up to the states that can do better than the feds micromanagement.

One size does not fit all!

what micromanagement?

[boutons_deux]

Repugs and tea baggers won on the budget amount and are winning in their long term making American distrust and dislike govt. The real winners? The VRWC/1%/UCA who are financing the tea bagger extremists.


"Their Real Goal: Cynicism

So the President cannot re-negotiate the Affordable Care Act. And I don't believe Tea Bag Republicans expect him to.Their real goal is far more insidious. They want to sow even greater cynicism about the capacity of government to do much of anything. The shutdown and possible default are only the most recent and most dramatic instances of terminal gridlock, designed to get people like my friend to give up.

And on this score, they're winning. Congress's approval rating was already at an all-time low before the shutdown, according to a poll released just hours before Washington went dark. TheCNN/ORC poll (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=43611AF6-34D4-4979-811C-5B5604723C29) showed that only 10 percent of Americans approved the job Congress was doing, while 87 percent disapproved. It was the all-time lowest approval rating for Congress on a CNN poll.

A recent Gallup survey (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/04/204268/trust-us-says-government-fat-chance.html) found that only 42 percent of Americans - also a record low - have an even "fair" amount of confidence in the government's capacity to deal with domestic matters.

And in a recent survey by the Pew Research Center (http://www.people-press.org/2013/09/30/anger-at-government-most-pronounced-among-conservative-republicans/), 26% of Americans say they're angry at the federal government while 51% feel frustrated. Just 17% say they are basically content with the government. The share expressing anger has risen seven points since January, and now equals the record high reached in August 2011, just after the widely-criticized debt-ceiling agreement between the President and Congress.

It's a vicious cycle. As average Americans give up on government, they pay less attention to what government does or fails to do - thereby making it easier for the moneyed interests to get whatever they want: tax cuts for themselves and their businesses; regulatory changes that help them but harm employees, consumers, and small investors; special subsidies and other forms of corporate welfare. And these skewed benefits only serve to confirm the public's cynicism.

The same cynicism also makes it easier to convince the public that even when the government does act for the benefit of the vast majority, it's not really doing so. So a law like the Affordable Care Act, which, for all its shortcomings, is still a step in the right direction relative to the costly mess of the nation's healthcare system, is transformed into a nightmarish "government takeover." "

http://robertreich.org/post/63417612450

[Wild Cobra]

so, how much is 10% of a welfare check?
LOL...

You really don't have a better intelligence than a Clam. Do you...

[Wild Cobra]

what micromanagement?
Really?

Must this be explained?

Wow...

Where do I start?

Why don't you start by looking up the requirements that come with almost every federal contribution to a program administered by the states.

[clambake]

LOL...

You really don't have a better intelligence than a Clam. Do you...

i was just asking someone that has direct knowledge. how much was your welfare check? every week? every month? you're the pro.

[Wild Cobra]

i was just asking someone that has direct knowledge. how much was your welfare check? every week? every month? you're the pro.
I have no direct knowledge of welfare. You responded to my words of 10% of a different topic.

Are you really that ficking stupid?

[clambake]

I have no direct knowledge of welfare.

sure you do. how much were the checks?

[Wild Cobra]

sure you do. how much were the checks?
My God.

I pity you.

You are such a stupid liar.

Link please...

[clambake]

everyone knows you were raised on welfare.

how much do you owe us?

[Wild Cobra]

everyone knows you were raised on welfare.

how much do you owe us?
Link please.

[clambake]

you're ashamed.

i get it.

[Wild Cobra]

you're ashamed.

i get it.
If I was, why would I post the information you are misconstruing?

Link it you stupid ignoramus.

Put up or shut up!

[clambake]

how much did it cost us?

[Wild Cobra]

how much did it cost us?

ZERO! Never a recipient of "welfare."

[clambake]

u keep telling yourself that.

but we'll always know.

[clambake]

by the way, in your world, that makes you a libtard.

[Wild Cobra]

u keep telling yourself that.

but we'll always know.

Who is "we?"

[Wild Cobra]

Only in your demented delusional fantasies.

Please find the post where I indicate any such things occurred. If that's not where your delusion comes from, please show us the government records you managed to find.

LOL...

You are such an obvious loser.

LOL...

[clambake]

poor thing.

[boutons_deux]

House Republicans Flip-Flop On Clean Funding Bill (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/08/2750021/clean-continuing-resolution-gop-flip-flop/)Reps. Lou Barletta (R-PA),

Devin Nunes, (R-CA),

Mike Simpson (R-ID),

Leonard Lance, (R-NJ), and

Randy Forbes (R-VA),

who had all previously indicated support for a clean continuing resolution, have all recanted (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/bare-majority-in-house-supports-clean-govt-funding-measure/) their support (https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/387579874908856321) over the past 48 hours.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/08/2750021/clean-continuing-resolution-gop-flip-flop/

So NOW Boner doesn't have the votes.

He's still going to lose. Dems aren't budging, aren't doing anything, and fuck "conversations".

[boutons_deux]

The Senate’s lone independent said Monday that a controversial Supreme Court ruling on campaign financing indirectly led to the government shutdown, which he said was engineered by an influential group of billionaires led by the Koch brothers.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) said the 2010 ruling in the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission allowed the rich and powerful to threaten House members with well-funded campaign challengers unless they got their way on an agenda to roll back progressive legislation.

“So what democracy is today in the House of Representatives after Citizens United is about is a handful of billionaires can threaten any member of the House with defeat by pouring unlimited sums of money if they vote in a way that the Koch brothers do not like,” Sanders said.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/08/bernie-sanders-citizens-united-ruling-led-to-the-government-shutdown/#sthash.zQzyUuOj.dpuf

[boutons_deux]

$200M and 3 years of VRWC tactics, but the Obamacare shutdown is a looking-for-shoes accident! :lol

GOP congressman: We stumbled into war over Obamacare

"I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it," the congressman said. "That's basically what's happening now in a political sense. This isn't exactly the fight I think Republicans wanted to have, certainly that the leadership wanted to have, but it's the fight that's here."

Cruz, along with a few Senate colleagues, the Heritage Foundation, and others, ran a high-profile campaign to stir public opinion against Obamacare — the House GOP leadership was mostly unaware of what was going on. "They got surprised a little bit by the Obamacare thing," the lawmaker said. "This was something that blew up in August. Nobody really saw it coming — probably should have a little bit, I'm not being critical of anybody in that regard, on either side of this — but it just happened."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gop-congressman-we-stumbled-into-war-over-obamacare/article/2536874

You right-wing assholes elect some really brilliant assholes to Congress.

Repugs = Confederates accidentally starting the Battle of Gettysburg, didn't even know there were Blue-state Dems and a Bag Bad Freed Slave N!gg@ in the area. :lol

[boutons_deux]

REPUBLICANS SHUT DOWN PREFRONTAL CORTEX


http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/michele-bachmann-580.jpg


In an escalation of the stalemate gripping Washington, House Republicans voted today to shut down the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that controls reasoning and impulses.

The resolution, which passed with heavy Tea Party support, calls for a partial shutdown of the brain, leaving the medulla and cerebellum, sometimes referred to as the “reptilian brain,” up and running.
The Tea Party caucus cheered the passage of the bill, which was sponsored by Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, who called the measure “long overdue.”

House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) offered no timetable for restarting the prefrontal cortex, telling reporters, “It will most certainly remain shut down during any negotiations with the President. That’s the only leverage we have.”

Representative Bachmann agreed: “The President can go ahead and put a gun to our heads. There’s nothing there.”

While the G.O.P.’s decision to shut down the prefrontal cortex rattled Wall Street, the neuroscientist Davis Logsdon said it should be seen as little more than a symbolic vote, noting, “It’s actually been shut down since the 2008 election.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/10/republicans-shut-down-prefrontal-cortex.html?utm_source=tny&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=borowitz&mbid=nl_Borowitz%20(179)

[boutons_deux]

The Koch Brothers’ ‘Samson Option’

The Koch Brothers and other right-wing billionaires who provoked the government shutdown and now are angling for an even more devastating credit default see themselves as the people who deserve to rule the United States without interference from lesser citizens, especially those with darker-colored skin.

Their “masters of the universe” world view is that they or their daddies or their daddies’ daddies were the ones who “built America” and, thus, it’s their right to tear down the remarkable edifice of U.S. law, politics and economics created over the past two-plus centuries — if the country’s less-deserving inhabitants insist on raising taxes on the rich to fund programs benefiting the poor and the middle class.

That is what we’re watching now, what might be called the Koch Brothers’ “Samson Option,” pulling down the temple to destroy their enemies even if doing so is also destructive to them and their fortunes.

Charles and David Koch and other right-wing billionaires and near-billionaires are blind with anger after wasting millions of dollars on Mitt Romney, Karl Rove and the Republican Party in a failed attempt to defeat Barack Obama, the Democrats and health-care reform. These were the guys who smirked knowingly when Romney sneered at “the 47 percent” of Americans who receive some government help; they got snappish when Obama called them “fat cats”; they demanded the honorific title of “job creators.”
Then, they had to sit in their plush party rooms waiting to celebrate Romney’s victory only to be frustrated by a coalition of voters led by African-Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans and young urban whites who are comfortable in a more diverse country.

As the Times reported, "the speaker acknowledged that in July he had gone to the Senate majority leader, Senator Harry Reid … and offered to have the House pass a clean financing resolution. [Boehner's] proposal would have set spending levels $70 billion lower than Democrats wanted, but would have no contentious add-ons like changing the health-care law. Democrats accepted, but they say Mr. Boehner then reneged under pressure from Tea Party conservatives."

So, Boehner had laid out terms for a deal that the Democrats disliked but agreed to accept, only to see Boehner pocket their major concession, tack on a host of new demands including stopping health-care reform, and then berating them with the "talking point" that it was the Democrats who wouldn't negotiate.

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/10/08/the-koch-brothers-samson-option/

[RandomGuy]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51506/large/TMW2013-10-09color.png?1380806450


Most people in Iraq and Afghanistan wanted us gone. the only difference between the people we called "terrorists" and the people who just didn't like us was tactics.

In this case, it seems as if a group of terrorists have taken our government, and the rest of us by extension hostage.

If you dont' like the affordable care act, fine, then seperate that from the budget process, and figure out how to change it in a way that everyone can agree on.

As it is, I can't help but draw the analogy.

The extremists in the GOP are gleefully rubbing their hands at reducign the government. Tired of having to comprimise with people that dont' agree with them, they have taken on new tactics to get what they want. The tactic and the end goal suits them just fine, damn the cost to the rest of us. For a group that complained about having something shoved down their throat they seem very little concerned about doing the shoving when it suits them.

[AntiChrist]

In this case, it seems as if a group of terrorists have taken our government, and the rest of us by extension hostage.




Just stop

[boutons_deux]

The Koch Brothers’ ‘Samson Option’

The Koch Brothers and other right-wing billionaires who provoked the government shutdown and now are angling for an even more devastating credit default see themselves as the people who deserve to rule the United States without interference from lesser citizens, especially those with darker-colored skin.

Their “masters of the universe” world view is that they or their daddies or their daddies’ daddies were the ones who “built America” and, thus, it’s their right to tear down the remarkable edifice of U.S. law, politics and economics created over the past two-plus centuries — if the country’s less-deserving inhabitants insist on raising taxes on the rich to fund programs benefiting the poor and the middle class.

That is what we’re watching now, what might be called the Koch Brothers’ “Samson Option,” pulling down the temple to destroy their enemies even if doing so is also destructive to them and their fortunes.

Charles and David Koch and other right-wing billionaires and near-billionaires are blind with anger after wasting millions of dollars on Mitt Romney, Karl Rove and the Republican Party in a failed attempt to defeat Barack Obama, the Democrats and health-care reform. These were the guys who smirked knowingly when Romney sneered at “the 47 percent” of Americans who receive some government help; they got snappish when Obama called them “fat cats”; they demanded the honorific title of “job creators.”
Then, they had to sit in their plush party rooms waiting to celebrate Romney’s victory only to be frustrated by a coalition of voters led by African-Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans and young urban whites who are comfortable in a more diverse country.

As the Times reported, "the speaker acknowledged that in July he had gone to the Senate majority leader, Senator Harry Reid … and offered to have the House pass a clean financing resolution. [Boehner's] proposal would have set spending levels $70 billion lower than Democrats wanted, but would have no contentious add-ons like changing the health-care law. Democrats accepted, but they say Mr. Boehner then reneged under pressure from Tea Party conservatives."

So, Boehner had laid out terms for a deal that the Democrats disliked but agreed to accept, only to see Boehner pocket their major concession, tack on a host of new demands including stopping health-care reform, and then berating them with the "talking point" that it was the Democrats who wouldn't negotiate.

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/10/08/the-koch-brothers-samson-option/




:lol

Koch Denies Ever Taking ‘Position’ On Defunding ObamacareThe Koch Company wants Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and the public to know that it played no role in the “legislative tactic of tying the continuing resolution to defunding Obamacare.”

A Koch Industries representative penned an open letter (http://www.scribd.com/doc/174758560/Letter-to-Capitol-Hill-100913) on Wednesday, aiming to “set the record straight” after Senator Reid said that the government shutdown was “satisfying the Koch brothers.”
The comments came during a Tuesday floor speech, in which Reid cited a New York Times article that shed light on a “well-financed, broad-based assault (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&)” on the Affordable Care Act that was months in planning and involved an alliance of powerful GOP groups.

Reid said that “according to the news article, a former Attorney General of the United States, Ed Meese, and the Koch Brothers” are behind “raising and spending hundred of millions of dollars to get us where we are right now.”

According to the New York Times, an organization called Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce — linked to the billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David – contributed over $200 million last year to nonprofit organizations involved in the effort to defund Obamacare by tying it to the continuing resolution.

The Koch-financed Americans for Prosperity also spent $5.5 million on television ads targeting health care reform. Another $5 million was given to Generation Opportunity, the organization behind the now infamous Internet ad that showed a rather creepy, speculum-gripping Uncle Sam (http://www.nationalmemo.com/watch-new-anti-obamacare-ads-are-the-creepiest-youll-ever-see/) suddenly popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam.

The Senate Majority Leader added to his speech with a tweet saying that “by shutting down the government, Republicans are satisfying the Koch Brothers while millions of people are suffering.”
The Koch brothers are not ready to acknowledge their role in this latest governing crisis, however. The letter only admitted that “Koch believes that Obamacare will increase deficits, lead to an overall lowering of the standard of health care in America, and raise taxes.” But it maintained that Koch never took a “position” on tying the continuing resolution to defunding the health law, and they never “lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare.”

Koch may not have been behind the “legislative provisions,” but the Koch brothers certainly poured millions of dollars into the effort on which their company never took a “position.”

The letter did not stop short of advising Congress on what it “should” be doing.

“We believe that Congress should, at a minimum, keep to sequester-level spending guidelines, and develop a plan for more significant and widespread spending reductions in the future,” it read, adding, “Congress should focus on these efforts: balancing the budget, tightening and cutting government spending, curbing cronyism, and eliminating market-distorting subsidies and mandates.”
Koch Industries may claim that it had nothing to do with orchestrating the government shutdown — but if nothing else, its representative is happy to use all of the same talking points used by Republican lawmakers when trying to justify that very effort.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/koch-denies-ever-taking-position-on-defunding-obamacare/

[boutons_deux]

On Chris Hayes, sounds like Repugs coming out of Congress tonight they're stuck with "unconditional surrender" which is a lie since they "won" their budget number.

[boobie4three]

http://youtu.be/A1GJ45EwuQ8

Duffy ripped Mitchell a new one.

[angrydude]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51506/large/TMW2013-10-09color.png?1380806450


Most people in Iraq and Afghanistan wanted us gone. the only difference between the people we called "terrorists" and the people who just didn't like us was tactics.

In this case, it seems as if a group of terrorists have taken our government, and the rest of us by extension hostage.

If you dont' like the affordable care act, fine, then seperate that from the budget process, and figure out how to change it in a way that everyone can agree on.

As it is, I can't help but draw the analogy.

The extremists in the GOP are gleefully rubbing their hands at reducign the government. Tired of having to comprimise with people that dont' agree with them, they have taken on new tactics to get what they want. The tactic and the end goal suits them just fine, damn the cost to the rest of us. For a group that complained about having something shoved down their throat they seem very little concerned about doing the shoving when it suits them.

And what do we do with terrorists? We kill them.

You'd have made a good brownshirt.

[angrydude]

And I bet you're the guy who is always bemoaning the lack of civility in public discourse.

[MannyIsGod]

Its stupid to call them terrorists. I swear anytime anyone disagrees with someone else they go to the terror buzzword. So fucking annoying.

Also annoying, the pandering to the military by passing shit that helps them while other government works don't.

[Nbadan]

Not much of a stretch TBH....we already bomb people we call terrorists because it benefits us economically

[Jacob1983]

Liberal jizz drinkers would deny benefits to veterans and their loved ones if it meant that a woman could get a free abortion or if two men could get married and have sex in public. It's sad that it's like that but it's very true.

[boutons_deux]

Its stupid to call them terrorists.

govt shutdown or forcing Treasury default are acts of social, financial violence on innocent people, acts with a political objective, iow, social/financial terrorism

[velik_m]

Its stupid to call them terrorists. I swear anytime anyone disagrees with someone else they go to the terror buzzword. So fucking annoying.

Also annoying, the pandering to the military by passing shit that helps them while other government works don't.

The only way to get rid of scary sounding buzzword is to repeat it in every situation until it loses all meaning. So if you want it to stop being used, you should use it all the time...

[boutons_deux]

Right Wing Lashes Out At Paul Ryan Over Obamacare

In one of the most surprising examples of how committed Republicans truly are to attacking the Affordable Care Act, the right wing is lashing out at Representative Paul Ryan (R-WI) for being insufficiently committed to killing Obamacare.

The anger stems from an op-ed by Ryan (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303442004579123943669167898.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop) published in The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday. Ryan used the platform to pitch his plan to end the debt ceiling crisis: Republicans would raise it in exchange for a deal in which they agree to roll back some of the sequester cuts, and Democrats agree to cuts to earned-benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare.

What is surprising, however, is the negative reaction that Ryan’s op-ed garnered on the right. As Tom Kludt points out (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservatives-furious-that-ryan-didn-t-address-obamacare-in-debt-proposals) at Talking Points Memo, right-wing groups such as the Senate Conservatives Fund, Heritage Action, and RedState.com immediately lashed out at Ryan for failing to include the death of Obamacare in his demands in exchange for not intentionally crashing the global economy. Ryan made no mention of the law in his op-ed (perhaps because he knows that its repeal is not realistic, perhaps because he needs the law’s savings to balance his own budget).

And they weren’t alone. Amanda Carpenter, a spokeswoman for Senator Ted Cruz, tweeted (https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/statuses/387889024532090880) ”There is one big word missing from this op-ed. It’s start [sic] with an O and ends with BAMACARE.” Ben Shapiro, an editor-at-large at the right-wing Breitbart.com, lamented (https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/387958998311256064) that “Paul Ryan dropping Obamacare demands re: shutdown and debt ceiling is suicidal strategy. And sadly typical.” And the list of angry right-wingers goes on.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/right-wing-lashes-out-at-paul-ryan-over-obamacare/

[boutons_deux]

GOP quietly backing away from Obamacare

A fight over Obamacare? That’s so last week.

With the government shutdown firmly in its second week, and the debt limit projected to be reached next Thursday, top House and Senate Republicans are publicly moving away from gutting the health care law — a practical move that could help resolve the stalemate and appear more reasonable in the eyes of frustrated voters.

In a private meeting among Senate Republicans, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) expressed openness to a plan by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) that includes a repeal of Obamacare’s medical device tax but nothing else related to the health care law.

With polls showing their party is suffering the brunt of the blame for the shutdown, many top Republicans are quietly moving past the Obamacare debate. Many Senate Republicans’ demands do not include changes to Obamacare, but rather cuts to Medicare, Social Security and changes to the Tax Code. House Republicans are also considering a short-term debt hike, but no one expects that it will be accompanied by changes to Obamacare.

“I’d like to get rid of Obamacare, no question about that, but I think that effort has failed,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), the veteran member of the Senate Finance Committee. “And we’re going to have to take it on in other ways.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/republicans-gop-obamacare-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98102.htmlhttp://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/republicans-gop-obamacare-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98102.html

Let me guess:
cut Medicare and SS
cut taxes on wealthy and business
:lol

[boutons_deux]

25 unforgettable Obamacare quotes

first up: the permanently demented “It will be his Waterloo. It will break him.” :lol

http://www.politico.com/gallery/2013/07/25-unforgettable-obamacare-quotes/001172-016561.html

[boutons_deux]

IRS Obamacare official: Rollout smooth on our end

But the hearing focused on the health law — and Ingram, the director of the IRS Affordable Care Act office, said the glitches that have plagued the launch and stymied enrollment aren’t from her agency.

“Our systems have come up on time and operated as planned in turning interactions around,” she said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/irs-obamacare-aca-enrollment-health-care-law-98100.html#ixzz2hKTaJ6tg

[AntiChrist]

IRS Obamacare official: Rollout smooth on our end

But the hearing focused on the health law — and Ingram, the director of the IRS Affordable Care Act office, said the glitches that have plagued the launch and stymied enrollment aren’t from her agency.

“Our systems have come up on time and operated as planned in turning interactions around,” she said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/irs-obamacare-aca-enrollment-health-care-law-98100.html#ixzz2hKTaJ6tg



I'm sure the tax collecting piece of ACA did rollout smoothly. Going to be hard to "fine" people who can't even sign up, tho.

[boutons_deux]

I'm sure the tax collecting piece of ACA did rollout smoothly. Going to be hard to "fine" people who can't even sign up, tho.

I think it comes out of their tax refund. don't have to sign up if you decide to pay the penalty. She's probably talking about validating exchange clients' income level

[AntiChrist]

I think it comes out of their tax refund. don't have to sign up if you decide to pay the penalty. She's probably talking about validating exchange clients' income level


I'm talking about people who WANT to sign up, but can't. That is different from deciding they DON'T WANT to sign up. Try to keep up.

[boutons_deux]

Hannity Calls The Shutdown He Campaigned For "The Obama-Reid Shutdown"

After insisting that House Republicans hold the line on budget negotiations, Fox News' Sean Hannity used the resulting government shutdown to attack Democrats, labeling it the "Obama-Reid shutdown."


On the October 9 edition of his Fox show, Hannity labeled the government shutdown the "Obama-Reid shutdown," claiming the Obama administration is targeting veterans and children with cancer as a way to cause political pain:

Hannity was one of the loudest voices in the right-wing media urging the House Republicans not to give in, even if it meant shutting down the government. On the October 1 edition (http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/10/01/hannitys-shutdown-advice-for-republicans-hold-t/196203) of his radio show, Hannity said, "My advice to the Republicans: Hold the line. Stand on your principles. Stand with the American people. Stand for the best health care system."

Later that day on his Fox News program, Hannity told (http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2013/10/01/32242/fnc-hannity-2013101-shutdown23months) Sen. Rand Paul that he Republicans should not "give in at all" and "sit it out" even if the shutdown lasted months:

HANNITY: I think the worst outcome, though, for the Republicans in the House at this point -- as they have been reasonable and the president totally unreasonable, Reid unreasonable -- is to cave. I don't think they should give in at all. And if that means that they're going to sit this out for a month or two months or however long the president wants to be arrogant and not talk to anybody, then just sit it out.


In March, Hannity urged (http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/03/18/foxs-hannity-republicans-should-shut-the-govern/193114) Republicans to shut the government down as a way to repeal the Affordable Care Act:

HANNITY: Republicans right now, if they really want to -- not just symbolically -- if they want to repeal health care, Dr. [Ben] Carson, Obamacare, they've got to shut the government down and be labeled 'the full faith and credit of the United States is in jeopardy.' Which is not true. But if they really want to do that, that's what it will take. I want them to do it.


While he has been one of the shutdown's foremost supporters, Hannity is far from the only right-wing media figure to advocate for it. His Fox colleagues Laura Ingraham (http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2013/10/01/32214/ceg-ingraham-20131001-shutdown), Erick Erickson (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/01/republicans-stand-and-fight-or-risk-getting-nothing-from-government-shutdown/), Sarah Palin (http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2013/10/02/32245/fnc-hannity-20130930-palincave), and Todd Starnes (https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/385132852922183680) have all promoted the shutdown as a way to defund or repeal the Affordable Care Act.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/10/hannity-calls-the-shutdown-he-campaigned-for-th/196384

MMA bitch-slaps Fox Repug Tea Bagger Propaganda network daily. :lol

[AntiChrist]

lol

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/brave-tourists-are-blatantly-defying-the-us-governments-dema

[SA210]

"Well, i think it's pretty irrelevant, because i think both parties are doing the same thing. they're grandstanding. they're politicizing this. they talk about a shutdown, which really isn't a shutdown. the big stuff continues, and they close down the monuments. and i think it's all a political game and it's a blame game. you know, even with the deficit -- the deficit limit was met in may. so government goes on. i think that the shutdown is not a real problem. i think the real worry should be the breakdown of the entire system. and as far as default goes, we're always going to pay the interest. and that's just -- that's just a fake argument. i'm concerned about the continuation of the default by paying off our bills with money that has less value. that's where the real problem is, and they're not even talking about it."


Video: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000199839#eyJ2aWQiOiIzMDAwMjA2NTA1IiwiZW5j VmlkIjoidXMrVFVudWt3cmZIMDVFOUVzUk5iZz09IiwidlRhYi I6InRyYW5zY3JpcHQiLCJ2UGFnZSI6IiIsImdOYXYiOlsiwqBM YXRlc3QgVmlkZW8iXSwiZ1NlY3QiOiJBTEwiLCJnUGFnZSI6Ij EiLCJzeW0iOiIiLCJzZWFyY2giOiIifQ==

[Th'Pusher]

Video: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000199839#eyJ2aWQiOiIzMDAwMjA2NTA1IiwiZW5j VmlkIjoidXMrVFVudWt3cmZIMDVFOUVzUk5iZz09IiwidlRhYi I6InRyYW5zY3JpcHQiLCJ2UGFnZSI6IiIsImdOYXYiOlsiwqBM YXRlc3QgVmlkZW8iXSwiZ1NlY3QiOiJBTEwiLCJnUGFnZSI6Ij EiLCJzeW0iOiIiLCJzZWFyY2giOiIifQ==

Are your movies as devoid of original thought as your forum posts?

[SA210]

:madrun I'm angry sa210 posted some truth!

[Th'Pusher]

I'm not angry at all. You'd commented that you're a filmmaker. I assumed someone in a creative field like filmmaking would demonstrate more original thought than what I've seen from you. I'd challenge you to point to a single post where you've demonstrated original though. I can honestly say, I can't recall a single one, and you post quite a bit.

[AntiChrist]

Prophetic words from Mr. Blinky

ItGodTIiukc

[SA210]

Yep, I'm angry and can't think for myself. I'm so mad sa210 can think for himself and not follow or defend the status quo like I do :madrun

[Th'Pusher]

^solid analysis as always. Nice chatting with you 210 :tu

[Jacob1983]

You guys just need to simma down now. The world isn't going to end because the government is still shutdown or the fact that Obamacare is shitty. America supposedly has a 16 trillion dollar deficit yet America still functions. Personally, I doubt that number. I wouldn't be surprised if America wasn't in debt at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some scare tactic by the GOP and Democrats to get us to vote for them.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You guys just need to simma down now. The world isn't going to end because the government is still shutdown or the fact that Obamacare is shitty. America supposedly has a 16 trillion dollar deficit yet America still functions. Personally, I doubt that number. I wouldn't be surprised if America wasn't in debt at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some scare tactic by the GOP and Democrats to get us to vote for them.

If we stop paying interest on treasury bonds then some serious shit is going to hit the fan. The entire notion of equity becomes questionable.

[Jacob1983]

I still doubt it. I've gotten to the point where I don't believe anything that Congress or Obama says. It's all bullshit in my opinion.

[RandomGuy]

You guys just need to simma down now. The world isn't going to end because the government is still shutdown or the fact that Obamacare is shitty. America supposedly has a 16 trillion dollar deficit yet America still functions. Personally, I doubt that number. I wouldn't be surprised if America wasn't in debt at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some scare tactic by the GOP and Democrats to get us to vote for them.

Um, the deficit is not 16 trillion dollars.

It actually fell quite drastically in the first part of the year, simply due to revenues catching up to expenses.


WASHINGTON -- The government on Monday reported a $97.6 billion deficit for July but remains on track to post its lowest annual budget gap in five years.

July's figure raises the deficit so far for the 2013 budget year to $607.4 billion, the government says. That's 37.6 percent below the $973.8 billion deficit for the first 10 months of the 2012 budget year.

The Congressional Budget Office has forecast that the annual deficit will be $670 billion when the budget year ends Sept. 30, far below last year's $1.09 trillion. It would mark the first year that the gap between spending and revenue has been below $1 trillion since 2008.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12/us-budget-deficit_n_3745096.html

[Jacob1983]

I doubt that America even has a deficit. How can you trust these pieces of shit in Congress anyways?

[boutons_deux]

Repugs have lost both the shutdown and the deb ceiling, dick-slapped by Obama and even by wimps like Reid and Pelosi.

Repugs are BEGGING for a way-out, and the Dems are giving them none.

Barry tonight said no to a 6-week debt ceiling extension.

If I were Barry:

Repugs, to start the "conversation", GFY

The ONLY deal I will accept is complete suspension of the debt ceiling at all until 20 Jan 2017, I spend whatever you want, the Treasury will finance it.

Since you rejected our current budget offer, Boner even accepted it from Reid a few months ago then reneged, the only budget number the Dems accept now is $1.4T

oh, before I forget, have a nice day and GFY

[Nbadan]

merica supposedly has a 16 trillion dollar deficit yet America still functions. Personally, I doubt that number. I wouldn't be surprised if America wasn't in debt at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it's some scare tactic by the GOP and Democrats to get us to vote for them.

:drunk

[Nbadan]

Fed could wipe out over 1 trillion dollars in debt with the stroke of a pen...

http://i.imgur.com/jKWxO2i.jpg

t-bills held by Federal Reserve banks. Thanks to QE and other programs, the amount has gone up from 800 billion in 2008 to almost 2 trillion today. The Fed created money to buy these from the financial sector in the various QE programs, as a means of pumping money into the sector. The economic impact may have been negligible, but the world didn't end. So now it holds 2 trillion in U.S. debt. How about it just retires a trillion this week?

[boutons_deux]

GOP’s white-on-white war: Shutdown ruptures party’s all-white coalition (http://www.salon.com/2013/10/10/the_shutdown_is_rupturing_the_republicans_all_whit e_coalition/)


On Wednesday, the bottom fell out of the GOP’s Hail Mary “shut down the government over Obamacare” strategy.

Perhaps not coincidentally, it was also the day that the party’s leaders tried to revise and soften the terms of the fight — to make it about broader fiscal issues, which is what they wanted it to be about in the first place .

http://media.salon.com/2013/10/beutler_favorable_graphs_enlarge.jpg

Earlier this year, when the party reached a crossroads between becoming a more ethnically inclusive, moderate party, and doubling down on its whites-only strategy, it chose the latter (http://www.salon.com/2013/08/07/if_republicans_choose_to_become_a_whites_only_part y_its_on_them/). This shutdown fight, intentionally or otherwise stands to rupture the white-white coalition.

The GOP has instead reprised the “monochromatic insularity” blueprint that served it so well in 2012. It’s a strategy that might pay off in a midterm. But to have the faintest hope of winning a national election, a party of white people for white people must truly serve the interests of white people.


Maybe in the days ahead, once the government is reopened and the risk of immediate default has passed, Republicans will walk away from the past month’s events and pretend they never happened. The Obamacare defunders chastened. The establishment just grateful to have the latest embarrassment behind them.

If that’s the plan, they could spend the next year or three repairing the damage. But they’ve made it very hard to extract themselves from this cycle of brinkmanship. And if the only way for them to end it is to spearhead a campaign to swap sequestration with cuts to so-called entitlements, while Obamacare finds its sea legs, they’ll lose the activists, the marginally attached, and everyone in between.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/10/the_shutdown_is_rupturing_the_republicans_all_whit e_coalition/

[pgardn]

I doubt that America even has a deficit. How can you trust these pieces of shit in Congress anyways?

Dont believe anything you read.

Have you ever been to Spain? No?
How do you know it really exists?
Abraham Lincoln was a big lie created by dwarfs...

[boutons_deux]

Risky Business: Corporate Leaders Bemoan Tea Party Default Crisis Created By Their Own Donations

America’s great minds of business and finance have reached a consensus on the government shutdown and worse, the prospect of a debt default: While the latter is worse, both are bad. Those same great minds are well aware how the shutdown came to pass and why default still looms on the horizon, whether next week, next month, or next year.

Yes, the frightened corporate leaders surely know how this happened — because their money funded the Tea Party candidates and organizations responsible for the crisis.

Consider Rep. Ted Yoho (R-FL), a Tea Party freshman whose outspoken stupidity on a default’s potential benefits, such as an improved U.S. credit rating, has provided a bit of dark humor in these dark days. Yoho, a large-animal veterinarian, announced months ago that he would never vote to raise the debt ceiling.

Like most Republican candidates, he had no problem raising contributions from business interests, notably including contractors, insurance companies, manufacturers and agricultural processors — all of which presumably share the horror of default expressed by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. But no doubt Yoho parroted the usual right-wing clichés about taxes, regulation, labor, and health care, so all the business guys wrote a check without caring that Yoho is an ignorant yobbo.

Or consider Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-IN), who came to embody the idiocy of the shutdown when he declared “we’re not going to be disrespected” by the White House, but couldn’t articulate precisely what Republicans needed in order to reopen the government and avoid default. Another low-wattage Tea Party newcomer, Stutzman likewise raised plenty of money from commercial banks, real estate firms, insurance companies, and various manufacturers. Why do these executives write checks to elect someone like him?

Then there are the Tea Party leaders in the upper chamber, including such adornments of democracy as Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and of course Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). Johnson says there need be no debt default, no matter what Congress does, while Cruz, the “Defund Obamacare” mastermind, is more culpable than any other single legislator for the paralysis gripping Washington and the country.

Johnson’s top donors include an investment firm called Fiduciary Management, Inc., ironically enough, as well as Northwestern Mutual, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Mass Mutual Life Insurance, and naturally, Koch Industries (which now claims, disingenuously, that it doesn’t favor the Cruz shutdown strategy or a debt default).

As for Cruz, guess who paid for his campaign? Very close to the top of the list of donors for the despised Texan is none other than Goldman Sachs — whose chairman Lloyd Blankfein showed up at the White House a few days ago to bemoan the catastrophic threat of default. Not only did Blankfein and his fellow bankers warn of what might happen if America breaches its full faith and credit, but he even hinted that the fault lies with Republican hostage takers. Which is only partially right, because Blankfein and his fellow financiers need to look in the mirror, too. Cruz also got a big check from Berkshire Hathaway, corporate home of the venerated Wall Street sage Warren Buffett, who just compared the impact of default to “a nuclear bomb.” If that nuke wipes out the markets, Berkshire’s investment in Cruz will have lit the fuse.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/risky-business-corporate-leaders-bemoan-tea-party-default-crisis-created-by-their-own-donations/

[boutons_deux]

Business Groups See Loss of Sway Over House G.O.P.

As the government shutdown grinds toward a potential debt default, some of the country’s most influential business executives have come to a conclusion all but unthinkable a few years ago: Their voices are carrying little weight with the House majority that their millions of dollars in campaign contributions helped build and sustain.

Their frustration has grown so intense in recent days that several trade association officials warned in interviews on Wednesday that they were considering helping wage primary campaigns against Republican lawmakers who had worked to engineer the political standoff in Washington.

Such an effort would thrust Washington’s traditionally cautious and pragmatic business lobby into open warfare with the Tea Party faction, which has grown in influence since the 2010 election and won a series of skirmishes with the Republican establishment in the last two years.

“We are looking at ways to counter the rise of an ideological brand of conservatism that, for lack of a better word, is more anti-establishment than it has been in the past,” said David French, the top lobbyist at the National Retail Federation. “We have come to the conclusion that sitting on the sidelines is not good enough.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/business-groups-see-loss-of-sway-over-house-gop.html?from=mostemailed

[boutons_deux]

HOSTAGE-TAKERS CALL COMPARISONS TO TEA PARTY “HURTFUL”

A group representing America’s hostage-takers today blasted President Obama for his repeated comparisons between them and the Tea Party Republicans, calling his remarks “degrading and hurtful.”

The complaint came from the National Alliance of Hostage-Takers and Blackmailers, a watchdog group that monitors negative images of extortionists in the media.

“As professional hostage-takers, we never take hostages unless we have a well-thought-out plan, realistic demands, and a clear exit strategy,” read the group’s official statement. “Any comparison between what we do and these inane Tea Party antics are derogatory and unacceptable.”

The statement continued, “For years, our members have been subjected to offensive Hollywood stereotypes of hostage-takers as crazed madmen, cackling evildoers, and worse. The President’s hurtful remarks only reinforce those negative images.”

Later in the day, White House press spokesman Jay Carney offered an apology to the group: “As you can imagine, in the heat of a crisis we often say things we don’t mean. The President regrets any hurt his remarks may have caused.”

Mr. Carney said that in order to avoid offending other groups in the future, the President would resist the temptation to call the Tea Party Republicans terrorists, lunatics, or babies.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/10/hostage-takers-call-comparisons-to-tea-party-hurtful.html?utm_source=tny&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=borowitz&mbid=nl_Borowitz%20(180)

[boutons_deux]

Obama and Dems hangin tough, punishing the Repugs

Impasse Grinding On as Negotiations Over a Fiscal Deal Break Down


as angry Republicans said that President Obama had rejected their latest offer.

Representative John Carter of Texas described Mr. Obama as “acting like a royal president.”

“He’s still ‘my way or the highway,’ ” Mr. Carter said.

House Republicans — especially the more hard-line conservatives — remain reluctant to accept any proposal that comes out of the Democratic-controlled Senate,

“The problem here is that we don’t have a functioning majority,” said Representative Devin Nunes, a California Republican.

The Republicans had proposed increasing the Treasury Department’s authority to borrow money through Nov. 22, but only if Mr. Obama agreed to more expansive talks about overhauling the budget.

( :lol What an honest, good-faith, constructive offer! :lol How could the Dems refuse? :lol

Another Repug-fabricated crisis scheduled just in time for Thanksgiving and the Christmas shopping season!

The Repugs are totally in their own fantasy bubble, imagining that having fooled fooled their ignorant bubba base, now can fool the Dems and the rest of the country?)

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/politics/budget-and-debt-limit-debate.html?from=homepage

[boobie4three]

Good to see the Republicans at least putting up a fight against the Tyrant in Chief.

[boutons_deux]

Good to see the Republicans at least putting up a fight against the Tyrant in Chief.

They're losing, and they're gonna lose big. Eat shit, tea baggers.

[boutons_deux]

Shutdown puts many furloughed workers in financial distress





It might seem like a paid vacation for the 500,000 federal workers on furlough.

They've been out of work since last week and were promised back pay once a budget is passed and the government reopens.

But for many rank-and-file employees who live paycheck to paycheck, the shutdown is proving to be a massive financial headache. Some say their savings have been wiped out after a three-year pay freeze and a previous round of furloughs during the summer.
The nation's ideological battle over healthcare and spending is hitting these workers in the pocketbook. They're falling behind on rent, car payments, credit-card debt and other bills.

The pain is also spreading to the private sector as many companies with government contracts begin sending workers home.

The furloughs are costing the economy at least $160 million per workday, according to market research firm IHS Inc. If the shutdown continues beyond three or four weeks, economic growth could be cut in half in the last quarter of the year, Moody's Analytics said.

The federal government had about 2.15 million people, excluding postal workers unaffected by the shutdown, on its payroll in August, according to the government. California alone has about 243,000 federal employees.

"They are middle-class Americans," said Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, which represents about 150,000 federal workers. "They are frightened about what this means to their families. Many are the sole supporters of their families."

Kelley's union represents workers from 31 federal agencies and departments such as the Treasury and Homeland Security. She said about 40% of the union's members take home a salary less than $50,000 a year.

"There are tens of thousands of workers who don't have backup plans or a support system," she said.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-77763508/

[boobie4three]

They're losing, and they're gonna lose big. Eat shit, tea baggers.

If I'm the tea bagger, then you're the tea baggee.

[boutons_deux]

If I'm the tea bagger, then you're the tea baggee.

so you wanna suck my scrotum?

[boobie4three]

so you wanna suck my scrotum?

tea bagger(me) on top.

tea baggee(you) on the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/teabagging2_zps3e7e7ef8.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/teabagging2_zps3e7e7ef8.gif.html)

[Jacob1983]

If you are going to talk about having gay oral sex with each other, talk about that shit in private. Thank you.

[boutons_deux]

The South is holding America hostage (http://www.salon.com/2013/10/13/the_south_is_holding_america_hostage/)

http://media.salon.com/2013/10/confederate_capitol-620x412.jpg

When I have described the well-considered, coherent political and economic strategies of the conservative white South, as I have done here, here and here, I am sometimes been accused of being a “conspiracy theorist.” But one need not believe that white-hooded Dragons and Wizards are secretly coordinating the actions of Southern conservative politicians from a bunker underneath Stone Mountain in Georgia to believe that a number of contemporary policies — from race-to-the-bottom economic policies to voter disfranchisement and attempts to decentralize or privatize federal social insurance entitlements — serve the interests of those who promote them, who tend to be white Southern conservatives.

Just as a strategy is not a conspiracy, so it is not insanity. Ironically, American progressives, centrists and some Northern conservatives are only deluding themselves, when they insist that the kind of right-wing Southerners behind the government shutdown are “crazy.” Crazy, yes — crazy like a fox.

Another mistake is the failure to recognize that the Southern elite strategy, though bound up with white supremacy throughout history, is primarily about cheap and powerless labor, not about race. If the South and the U.S. as a whole through some magical transformation became racially homogeneous tomorrow, there is no reason to believe that the Southern business and political class would suddenly embrace a new model of political economy based on high wages, high taxes and centralized government, rather than pursue its historical model of a low-wage, low-tax, decentralized system, even though all workers, employers and investors now shared a common skin color.

For some time, the initiative has rested with the Southern power elite, which knows what it wants and has a plan to get it. The strategy of the conservative South, as a nation-within-a nation and in the global economy, combines an economic strategy and a political strategy.

If the neo-Confederates want to wage political and economic war, their fellow Americans should choose to respond with political and economic war on all fronts, not on the terms and in the places the Southern conservatives choose.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/13/the_south_is_holding_america_hostage/

[hitmanyr2k]

Republicans sure as fuck don't want this video to get out. If the GOP didn't own the shutdown already they're gonna own it lock, stock and barrel now. Can those poll numbers plummet any lower? :lol

c5bgQ2hwDII

[Trainwreck2100]

Republicans sure as fuck don't want this video to get out. If the GOP didn't own the shutdown already they're gonna own it lock, stock and barrel now. Can those poll numbers plummet any lower? :lol

c5bgQ2hwDII

Boenner's probably kicking himself for that one, pretty much gave away his get out of jail free card

[boutons_deux]

‘It’s Hard to See How Boehner Gets Out of This’: Dick Armey on the Shutdown

And he was wrong …

I think the fundamental miscalculation of ’95 was that we did not understand Clinton. Clinton was no sissy. He was not going to cave. And the public pressure wasn’t falling on Clinton; it was falling on us. The president was advantaged by being the guy who was trying so hard and being so accommodating to get through this against the stubborn and unreasonable Republicans. Tom DeLay always argued we were winning. If we were winning, I never saw it. We were getting the tar beat out of us.

And do you see many of the same dynamics in this shutdown?

There wasn’t that big ideological component back in ’95. Clinton was fundamentally a fiscal conservative, so more than anybody was ever willing to acknowledge, the goal of a balanced budget was a goal shared by Clinton in the first place. This fight now isn’t about the budget, it’s an ideological war. Nobody can surrender in this war, and their positions are mutually exclusive. Obamacare is the 50-year dream of the national Democrat party finally achieved. Everybody knew the Democrats were not going to take a bill to defund it. Boehner knew that, but he let himself get pushed into a shutdown anyway.

Is he really so afraid of the tea party?

Tea party, shmee party. It’s the Republican Study Committee, and they’ve been around since long before there was ever a tea party. But I still wonder: How does a guy like Ted Cruz, who’s relatively new in town, who nobody knows, who hasn’t even unpacked his bags, drive this whole process? It’s hard to see how Boehner gets himself out of this. My personal belief is his best model is Tip O’Neill. Tip O’Neill would have just said, “Look, I’m in charge here, you can take it or not.” I think John’s too worried about his speakership. If you’re going to be in command, damn it, then you got to command.

So how will it end?

I will predict this: When they agree on a spending bill, it will speak not at all to Obamacare and it will be at budgetary numbers higher than the sequestration level. And so in the end, the Republican conference will lose ground on the budget, they will lose ground on health care, they will lose ground politically, and they’ll be in a worse position than where Boehner had them going into this process. And they’ll all blame Boehner, bless his heart.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/dick-armey-remembers-the-gingrich-shutdowns.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/dick-armey-remembers-the-gingrich-shutdowns.html)

[boutons_deux]

Spending Dispute Leaves a Senate Deal Elusive

The core of the dispute is about spending, and how long a stopgap measure that would reopen the government should last. Democrats want the across-the-board cuts known as sequestration to last only through mid-November; Republicans want them to last as long as possible.

The Democrats’ demand shows a newfound aggressiveness. Previously, they had favored a so-called clean bill that would reopen the government and lift the debt ceiling without any policy changes attached. With Republicans on the defensive, it remains unclear whether the Democrats are using a negotiating ploy to raise the likelihood that any final deal will include their priorities as well as the Republicans’.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/us/politics/budget-and-debt-limit-debate.html?hp

I'd keep WORSENING the Dem offer the longer the Repugs obstruct. Fuck it, put the spending bill back to $1.4T (no sequestration at all) and let the Repugs burn in electoral hell for 20 years.

[boobie4three]

The American people understand we can't keep raising the debt ceiling without cutting spending. The Republicans win every time on that point. They should keep hammering away. As far as defaulting on our debt, we take in 10 times what we have to pay in interest on the debt so we would be able to make those payments for a long time. Liars like 0bama and Dingy Harry want Americans to believe America will default on it's debt as soon as we reach the debt limit. Once we make our debt payment, we then prioritize spending on the most essential programs. This is an opportunity for the Republicans to stop the spending madness and put America on the path to financial stability. Those that get cold feet will have hell to pay.

[Wild Cobra]

If you are going to talk about having gay oral sex with each other, talk about that shit in private. Thank you.

No shit.

Spurstalk needs a "gay" forum so the rest of us can stay clear of such shit.

[boutons_deux]

"The American people understand we can't keep raising the debt ceiling without cutting spending"

The SMART American people KNOW America has a revenue problem, not a spending problem, that the 1% and corporations are not paying their fair share after the VRWC policies of cutting taxes on them for the past 35 years.

[boobie4three]

No shit.

Spurstalk needs a "gay" forum so the rest of us can stay clear of such shit.

In my defense, Bouton took us down the queer path by calling me a tea bagger. I was just turning it around on him,....not to be confused with reach around.

[Wild Cobra]

"The American people understand we can't keep raising the debt ceiling without cutting spending"

The SMART American people KNOW America has a revenue problem, not a spending problem, that the 1% and corporations are not paying their fair share after the VRWC policies of cutting taxes on them for the past 35 years.


I would half agree with you in that the smart American know we have a revenue problem. This is because we don't have as many tax payers per capita as in the past years. More and more workers fall off the cutoff to pay taxes, and more and more are receiving benefits than before. At the same time, this is part of the reason why we have a spending problem.

The federal government is also taking on too many tasks that the 10th amendment should be acknowledged on, leaving to the states.

[Wild Cobra]

In my defense, Bouton took us down the queer path by calling me a tea bagger. I was just turning it around on him,....not to be confused with reach around.
I understand such things. I am guilty of turning things on others too. I swear though, Spurstalk must be excessively full of gays. Ever read the threads in "The Club?"

[boobie4three]

I would half agree with you in that the smart American know we have a revenue problem. This is because we don't have as many tax payers per capita as in the past years. More and more workers fall off the cutoff to pay taxes, and more and more are receiving benefits than before. At the same time, this is part of the reason why we have a spending problem.



This is exactly right. Instead of creating more taxpayers, 0bama and the Dems have created more government dependents, which is precisely what they want. More voters dependent on the government for their lives means these Dems will be continually reelected.

[boutons_deux]

"This is because we don't have as many tax payers per capita as in the past years"

probably a contrbution, but not a dominant one. Although in that area, flat household real revenue for 35 years means means flat household tax revenue.

The DOMINANT factor is the 1% and MegaCorps avoiding or evading taxes (including criminal serial felony tax evader Bishop Gecko) the driver of 3rd world corrupt country inequality in the USA now. Then add in the costs of Repug unfunded, botched, spurious wars, and Repug unfunded corporate welfare of Medicare Advantage, Medicare Part D.

[boutons_deux]

red-staters, macho "Rugged Individualist" cattlemen, Repug voters, whining about no Fed/USDA help with their dead cows, cleanup, etc, etc during the Repug govt shutdown, which according to the Repug LIES, is inconsequential because only 17% of govt is out of action.

Shutdown Hinders S.D. Post-Blizzard Cleanuphttp://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/10/14/snow_wide-fb77760ceac6bb6be9abe10ad06f278f26dab2a2-s40-c85.jpg

http://www.npr.org/2013/10/14/233790772/s-d-ranchers-struggle-to-get-out-from-under-blizzard

[boutons_deux]

You tea baggers and right-wingers want SMALL GOVERNMENT?

How this taste to ya? :lol

Skyrocketing Flood Insurance Rates Bring Financial Chaos, Heartache to Coastal Homeowners Across U.S.

When Superstorm Sandy slammed into New York and New Jersey last fall, it sent massive floods through the streets of coastal towns and cities across the Northeast, turning areas like Toms River, N.J., into something like a war zone.
But nearly a year later, residents there and in many other coastal communities across the U.S. face a potentially far more devastating menace: a nationwide revamp of flood insurance rates, forcing premiums that were once around $500 per year into the $5,000-, $10,000- and even $20,000-a-year range and higher.

"The adverse effect of [this] would be more devastating than Hurricane Katrina," Louisiana Insurance Commissioner Jim Donelon said in an interview with weather.com, noting the crippling economic damage the historic 2005 storm left behind on the Gulf coast. "Because it will render literally thousands of properties in my state worthless."

What's prompting reactions like this is the Flood Insurance Reform Act of 2012, passed by Congress last summer and often called "Biggert-Waters" for its two Congressional sponsors: former Illinois Rep. Judy Biggert and Rep. Maxine Waters of California.

The act made sweeping changes to the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) – which has been the only provider of flood insurance for homes and businesses across the U.S. since its creation in 1968 – with the goal of raising rates to reflect the true actuarial risk of properties in flood zones.

Saying goodbye to subsidized flood insurance

Biggert-Waters does that by phasing out subsidies for flood insurance in the most high-risk areas. Before the act's passage, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) had sold more than a million policies at subsidized rates. After it passed, more than 430,000 policyholders (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-13-607) had their subsidies immediately cut off; another 715,000 remained, but are expected to be gradually phased out.

Those changes were seen as urgent last summer by Congress -- which passed the bill with overwhelming bipartisan support, including a vote of 406 to 22 in the U.S. House of Representatives -- because the NFIP was reportedly more than $18 billion in debt (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/nyregion/federal-flood-insurance-program-faces-new-stress.html), with about $15 billion of that coming from the damage caused by 2005's Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

But that was before anyone knew what the details of the program would look like. And since FEMA began rolling out new flood zone maps and flood insurance rates to go with them earlier this year, based on the changes called for in Biggert-Waters, reaction has been swift and intense.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/new-flood-insurance-rules-bring-chaos-heartache-coastal-homeowners-20130927

And probably the majority of those coastal homeowners are in Confederate/HATE-GOVT Repug sun-belt states, TX, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA

and of course the "Free market" will step in an provide, as always, the optimal solution! :lol

[boobie4three]

You tea baggers and right-wingers want SMALL GOVERNMENT?

How this taste to ya? :lol

Skyrocketing Flood Insurance Rates Bring Financial Chaos, Heartache to Coastal Homeowners Across U.S.

When Superstorm Sandy slammed into New York and New Jersey last fall, it sent massive floods through the streets of coastal towns and cities across the Northeast, turning areas like Toms River, N.J., into something like a war zone.
But nearly a year later, residents there and in many other coastal communities across the U.S. face a potentially far more devastating menace: a nationwide revamp of flood insurance rates, forcing premiums that were once around $500 per year into the $5,000-, $10,000- and even $20,000-a-year range and higher.

"The adverse effect of [this] would be more devastating than Hurricane Katrina," Louisiana Insurance Commissioner Jim Donelon said in an interview with weather.com, noting the crippling economic damage the historic 2005 storm left behind on the Gulf coast. "Because it will render literally thousands of properties in my state worthless."

What's prompting reactions like this is the Flood Insurance Reform Act of 2012, passed by Congress last summer and often called "Biggert-Waters" for its two Congressional sponsors: former Illinois Rep. Judy Biggert and Rep. Maxine Waters of California.

The act made sweeping changes to the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) – which has been the only provider of flood insurance for homes and businesses across the U.S. since its creation in 1968 – with the goal of raising rates to reflect the true actuarial risk of properties in flood zones.

Saying goodbye to subsidized flood insurance

Biggert-Waters does that by phasing out subsidies for flood insurance in the most high-risk areas. Before the act's passage, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) had sold more than a million policies at subsidized rates. After it passed, more than 430,000 policyholders (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-13-607) had their subsidies immediately cut off; another 715,000 remained, but are expected to be gradually phased out.

Those changes were seen as urgent last summer by Congress -- which passed the bill with overwhelming bipartisan support, including a vote of 406 to 22 in the U.S. House of Representatives -- because the NFIP was reportedly more than $18 billion in debt (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/nyregion/federal-flood-insurance-program-faces-new-stress.html), with about $15 billion of that coming from the damage caused by 2005's Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

But that was before anyone knew what the details of the program would look like. And since FEMA began rolling out new flood zone maps and flood insurance rates to go with them earlier this year, based on the changes called for in Biggert-Waters, reaction has been swift and intense.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/new-flood-insurance-rules-bring-chaos-heartache-coastal-homeowners-20130927

And probably the majority of those coastal homeowners are in Confederate/HATE-GOVT Repug sun-belt states, TX, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA

and of course the "Free market" will step in an provide, as always, the optimal solution! :lol




You want the taxpayer to fund people's desire to live near the beach. What kind of fucking idiot are you ?

[boutons_deux]

Obama Can’t Waste This Moment

The key in politics is to snatch victory from the jaws of victory.


The senseless government shutdown has led to a rout of the Tea Party, right-wing extremism and a Republican leadership that was cowed into a march toward oblivion. But a great deal hangs on what happens next. Will this be a watershed moment? Or do we return to the same dreary politics we were having before this sorry episode?

What needs to happen is a sharp course correction — from an agenda championed by the forces that were beaten in the last election to an engagement with the problems our nation must solve.

It would be an utter waste to revisit the obsessions of 2011 and the presumption that budget cutting and deficit reduction should be the sole priorities of the political class. Recall that Rep. Paul Ryan was the other member of the Republican ticket that lost last year. Ryan’s proposal to slash spending played an central role in Mitt Romney’s defeat.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/obama-cant-waste-this-moment/

Forcing the Repugs to total defeat on the budget and then going 14th Amendment on the debt ceiling would totally destroy the Repugs, winning the 2014 and 2016 elections for the Dems.

[pgardn]

You tea baggers and right-wingers want SMALL GOVERNMENT?

How this taste to ya? :lol

Skyrocketing Flood Insurance Rates Bring Financial Chaos, Heartache to Coastal Homeowners Across U.S.

When Superstorm Sandy slammed into New York and New Jersey last fall, it sent massive floods through the streets of coastal towns and cities across the Northeast, turning areas like Toms River, N.J., into something like a war zone.
But nearly a year later, residents there and in many other coastal communities across the U.S. face a potentially far more devastating menace: a nationwide revamp of flood insurance rates, forcing premiums that were once around $500 per year into the $5,000-, $10,000- and even $20,000-a-year range and higher.

"The adverse effect of [this] would be more devastating than Hurricane Katrina," Louisiana Insurance Commissioner Jim Donelon said in an interview with weather.com, noting the crippling economic damage the historic 2005 storm left behind on the Gulf coast. "Because it will render literally thousands of properties in my state worthless."

What's prompting reactions like this is the Flood Insurance Reform Act of 2012, passed by Congress last summer and often called "Biggert-Waters" for its two Congressional sponsors: former Illinois Rep. Judy Biggert and Rep. Maxine Waters of California.

The act made sweeping changes to the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) – which has been the only provider of flood insurance for homes and businesses across the U.S. since its creation in 1968 – with the goal of raising rates to reflect the true actuarial risk of properties in flood zones.

Saying goodbye to subsidized flood insurance

Biggert-Waters does that by phasing out subsidies for flood insurance in the most high-risk areas. Before the act's passage, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) had sold more than a million policies at subsidized rates. After it passed, more than 430,000 policyholders (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-13-607) had their subsidies immediately cut off; another 715,000 remained, but are expected to be gradually phased out.

Those changes were seen as urgent last summer by Congress -- which passed the bill with overwhelming bipartisan support, including a vote of 406 to 22 in the U.S. House of Representatives -- because the NFIP was reportedly more than $18 billion in debt (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/nyregion/federal-flood-insurance-program-faces-new-stress.html), with about $15 billion of that coming from the damage caused by 2005's Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

But that was before anyone knew what the details of the program would look like. And since FEMA began rolling out new flood zone maps and flood insurance rates to go with them earlier this year, based on the changes called for in Biggert-Waters, reaction has been swift and intense.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/new-flood-insurance-rules-bring-chaos-heartache-coastal-homeowners-20130927

And probably the majority of those coastal homeowners are in Confederate/HATE-GOVT Repug sun-belt states, TX, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA

and of course the "Free market" will step in an provide, as always, the optimal solution! :lol




Over reach here again Boutons.

This could be looked at stop funding rich peoples 2nd home on the coastline, Or a save the wetlands from being built on.

The cost of living close to water where hurricanes hit is already very high even with federal funding. Poor people could not afford it anyway. It is risky to live in places like New Orleans. If you do, be prepared to rebuild on your own, it's common sense. We have allowed people to live 14 feet below sea level in flood prone areas because... that's where they live? It's just plain stupid. I have relatives in NO, they accept the risk of financial ruin. They will rebuild again on their own, it's their choice. Fine, I helped them put up a new frame knowing it could vanish next fall. Ants, I call them ants.

[boutons_deux]

Over reach here again Boutons.

Overreach? ??

We'll see if the coastal 1%ers get their lackeys in Congress to delay or kill this bill.

[boutons_deux]

Why Giving Republican Bullies a Bloody Nose Isn't Enough

Now is the time to lance the boil of Republican extremism once and for all.

Since Barack Obama became president, the extremists who have taken over the Republican Party have escalated their demands every time he's caved, using the entire government of the United States as their bargaining chit.
In 2010 he agreed to extend all of the Bush tax cuts through the end of 2012. Were they satisfied? Of course not.

In the summer of 2011, goaded by an influx of Tea Partiers, they demanded huge spending cuts in return for raising the debt ceiling. In response, the President offered an overly-generous $4 trillion "Grand Bargain," including cuts in Social Security and Medicare and whopping cuts in domestic spending (bringing it to its lowest level as a share of gross domestic product in over half a century).

Were Republicans content? No. When they demanded more, Obama agreed to a Super Committee to find bigger cuts, and if the Super Committee failed, a "sequester" that would automatically and indiscriminately slice everything in the federal budget except Social Security and Medicare.

Not even Obama's re-election put a damper on their increasing demands. By the end of 2012, they insisted that the Bush tax cuts be permanently extended or the nation would go over the "fiscal cliff." Once again, Obama caved, agreeing to permanently extend the Bush tax cuts for incomes up to $400,000.

Early this year, after the sequester went into effect, Republicans demanded even bigger spending cuts. Obama offered more cuts in Medicare and a "chained CPI" to reduce Social Security payments, in exchange for Republican concessions on taxes.

Refusing the offer, and seemingly delirious with their power to hold the nation hostage, they demanded that the Affordable Care Act be repealed as a condition for funding the government and again raising the debt ceiling.
This time, though, Obama didn't cave -- at least, not yet.

The government is shuttered and the nation is on the verge of defaulting on its debts. But public opinion has turned sharply against the Republican Party. And the GOP's corporate and Wall Street backers are threatening to de-fund it.
Suddenly the Republicans are acting like the school-yard bully who terrorized the playground but finally got punched in the face. They're in shock. They're humiliated. They're trying to come up with ways of saving face.

With bloodied nose, House Republicans are running home. They've abruptly turned negotiations over to their Senate colleagues. :lol (and little bitch McConnell is running scared in KY)

And just as suddenly, their demand to repeal or delay the Affordable Care Act has vanished. (An email (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/us/politics/budget-and-debt-limit-debate.html?_r=0) from the group Tea Party Express says: "Are you like us wondering where the fight against Obamacare went?")

At a lunch meeting in the Capitol, Senator John McCain asked a roomful of Republican senators if they still believed it was possible to reverse parts of the program. According to someone briefed (http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/10/11/obama-gop-senators-meet-shutdown-debt-ceiling/UDQ9zi6dAqKkTYm9HvN0yJ/story.html) on the meeting, no one raised a hand -- not even Ted Cruz. :lol

It appears that negotiations over the federal budget deficit are about to begin once again, and presumably Senate Republicans will insist that Obama and the Democrats give way on taxes and spending in exchange for reopening the government and raising the debt ceiling for at least another year.

But keeping the government running and paying the nation's bills should never have been bargaining chits in the first place, and the President and Democrats shouldn't begin to negotiate over future budgets until they're taken off the table.

The question is how thoroughly President Obama has learned that extortionist demands escalate if you give in to them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-giving-republican-bul_b_4091415.html

[Wild Cobra]

red-staters, macho "Rugged Individualist" cattlemen, Repug voters, whining about no Fed/USDA help with their dead cows, cleanup, etc, etc during the Repug govt shutdown, which according to the Repug LIES, is inconsequential because only 17% of govt is out of action.

Shutdown Hinders S.D. Post-Blizzard Cleanuphttp://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/10/14/snow_wide-fb77760ceac6bb6be9abe10ad06f278f26dab2a2-s40-c85.jpg

http://www.npr.org/2013/10/14/233790772/s-d-ranchers-struggle-to-get-out-from-under-blizzard
Wow...

All these examples of jobs not getting done, that are local, county, and state functions...

Just another libtard logic thread...

Just take pictures of the dead lifestock for when the agencies are back in business.

Problem solved.

[boutons_deux]

Wow...

All these examples of jobs not getting done, that are local, county, and state functions...

Just another libtard logic thread...

Just take pictures of the dead lifestock for when the agencies are back in business.

Problem solved.

the ranchers are smart enough to do that, but apparently they still call the closed USDA office of the govt they hate.

[boutons_deux]

Gohmert: Congress-caused default is ‘an impeachable offense by the president’“Would you allow us to default on our debt?” a reporter from The Young Turks wondered.

“No, that would be an impeachable offense by the president,” Gohmert declared.

During an interview with Newsmax TV (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/09/gohmert-shrugs-off-debt-limit-government-cant-default-if-it-stays-shut-down/) last week, Gohmert had said that the president didn’t mind “seeing America suffer,” but added that the government could not default if it stayed shut down.

“And when you know — as I know you do — that we have enough money coming in every week to pay our — to keep from defaulting,” he explained. “Now, we may have to keep some folks furloughed. Because as we know now, 94 percent of the [Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)] is non-essential. You know, we may have to ask some folks that are non-essential to stay home for a while longer.”

“But there is no reason we should ever, ever default on our debts unless the president and the treasury secretary conspire to make us default.”


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/14/gohmert-congress-caused-default-is-an-impeachable-offense-by-the-president/

Fucking East TX (still profoundly a Confederate area), sending this ignorant asshole to Congress.

[boobie4three]

“But there is no reason we should ever, ever default on our debts unless the president and the treasury secretary conspire to make us default.”

Cry about it all you want,...

but that's a fact, Jack.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/bill_zps1a6b3394.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/bill_zps1a6b3394.jpg.html)

[boutons_deux]

The party of Lincoln, grand but not yet old, feared the mischief that Southern senators and representatives might get up to when their states were readmitted to the Union. The Republicans’ foremost worry was that Congress might somehow be induced to cut funds for Union pensioners or pay off lenders who had gambled on a Confederate victory. But the language of the Fourteenth Amendment’s framers went further. Benjamin Wade, the president pro tem of the Senate, explained that the national debt would be safer once it was “withdrawn from the power of Congress to repudiate it.” He and his colleagues didn’t say just that the debt could not be put off, or left unpaid. They said that it couldn’t even be questioned.

The new insurrection is different from the old one, and not only because this time it’s the Republicans who are the insurrectionaries. The old insurrectionaries wanted to destroy the government; the new ones wish merely to decimate it. The old ones’ weapons of choice were muskets and bayonets; the new ones confine themselves to mendacity, demagoguery, and obstructionism. The old ones were exclusively white and Southern; the new ones, while overwhelmingly white, are more widely distributed. The old ones no longer wished to be citizens of the United States; the new ones, some of them, profess to wonder if the President is a citizen at all.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2013/10/21/131021taco_talk_hertzberg

[boutons_deux]

“But there is no reason we should ever, ever default on our debts unless the president and the treasury secretary conspire to make us default.”

Cry about it all you want,...

but that's a fact, Jack.



That's a right-wing fantasy fact, Jackass.

[pgardn]

Overreach? ??

We'll see if the coastal 1%ers get their lackeys in Congress to delay or kill this bill.





The tea baggers should love this bill.
The coastal developers will fight it hard as always. And the 1% that can actually afford to rebuild on their own without government help should be fine as well.

Since you are all over the place I took this to mean you did not like the bill. I don't know the entirety of what is in the bill but the basic premise is long overdue.

[boobie4three]

That's a right-wing fantasy fact, Jackass.

Not a fantasy at all dipshit, and you know it. You and your ilk are a big bunch of liars, and you think that's perfectly fine, because the means justify the end, which is to destroy conservatives.

[ChumpDumper]

Not a fantasy at all dipshit, and you know it. You and your ilk are a big bunch of liars, and you think that's perfectly fine, because the means justify the end, which is to destroy conservatives.They're doing a bang up job of that themselves.

My only problem with that is they are trying to destroy the economy and current world monetary system in the process.

[boobie4three]

They're doing a bang up job of that themselves.

My only problem with that is they are trying to destroy the economy and current world monetary system in the process.

Wrong. They're understandingly trying to negotiate a reduction in spending, and putting us on a path to financial stability so we don't end up like Greece.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Wrong. They're understandingly trying to negotiate a reduction in spending, and putting us on a path to financial stability so we don't end up like Greece.

we'll never become like greece.. you do know that don't you?

[ChumpDumper]

Wrong. They're understandingly trying to negotiate a reduction in spending, and putting us on a path to financial stability so we don't end up like Greece.Wrong. A small faction of the House is holding the world economy hostage because they are butthurt that they failed in the last election and want to defy the will of the American people expressed in that election.

There is nothing responsible about their actions and they are "understandingly" being pilloried for them.

[boutons_deux]

Not a fantasy at all dipshit, and you know it. You and your ilk are a big bunch of liars, and you think that's perfectly fine, because the means justify the end, which is to destroy conservatives.

conspiracy between Pres and Treasury? it's a fact? :lol

All the Pres has to do is respect the Constitution's 14th and tell the Treasury to keep borrowing.

[boobie4three]

we'll never become like greece.. you do know that don't you?

Continuing down the road we're on and given enough time, of course we could become like Greece. Keep those rose colored glasses on. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[ChumpDumper]

Continuing down the road we're on and given enough time, of course we could become like Greece. Keep those rose colored glasses on. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.Well the douchebag Republicans can make that case in the upcoming elections.

[boutons_deux]

I took this to mean you did not like the bill.

you took me wrong, naturally

I was pointing out that tea baggers and libertarians wanting "small govt" should take this bill as an example how deeply govt subsidies and spending keeps the country rolling.

[boutons_deux]

Since you are all over the place

watsamata? can't keep up with my encyclopedic bitch slapping of all things bubba, redstate, Repug, tea baggers, libertarian, VRWC?

[boutons_deux]

Shutdown Leaves Some Seniors Worried About Their Next Meal You've no doubt heard of Senior Meals on Wheels preparing hot meals delivered to the elderly. But there's a different meal program that's been put on hold because of the partial government shutdown. It's the USDA's Commodity Supplemental Food Program.
In Michigan's western Kent County alone, more than 1,300 low-income seniors depend on . For them, it's a nutrition lifeline: They can't just go to a food pantry for similar assistance.

Bill Anderson, 81, and his wife, June, 83, are among those affected. Medical emergencies have depleted their savings. Social Security provides enough money to pay the utilities and insurance, but they turn to the government food program for meals.
They rely on weekly deliveries of nutritionally balanced surplus food. "The pantry gives you food, but not really enough to put in your refrigerator," June Anderson says.

"I would get out and beg before I'd let us go hungry," Bill Anderson adds.

Ron Cusin, who boxes up the basics that come from USDA's Commodity Supplemental Food Program, says usually the packages include some dried milk, pasta and two different types of juice.

You qualify for the program if you're over 60 with an annual income under $15,000. Distribution agencies in 40 states and two Native American reservations hand out the food packages. In Michigan, 29 agencies feed tens of thousands of residents — or they did until Oct. 3, when the USDA stopped reimbursing those agencies.

At the in Kent County, Mich., Judy Cusin (who is married to Ron Cusin) had to break the news to 1,500 low-income seniors that their next meal had been eliminated.


"We get all of our meat from the government," she says. Or rather, they did. "Hopefully," Knight says, "that will come back."

Aid officials say that nearly one-quarter of USDA's surplus food trickles down to local pantries. For Knight, that makes up one-half to three-quarters of her inventory. Losing that surplus means it's slimmer pickings for the families who come here to fill their stomachs.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/10/11/232159777/shutdown-leaves-some-seniors-worried-about-their-next-meal?sc=17&f=1128

[boobie4three]

Shutdown Leaves Some Seniors Worried About Their Next Meal You've no doubt heard of Senior Meals on Wheels preparing hot meals delivered to the elderly. But there's a different meal program that's been put on hold because of the partial government shutdown. It's the USDA's Commodity Supplemental Food Program.
In Michigan's western Kent County alone, more than 1,300 low-income seniors depend on . For them, it's a nutrition lifeline: They can't just go to a food pantry for similar assistance.

Bill Anderson, 81, and his wife, June, 83, are among those affected. Medical emergencies have depleted their savings. Social Security provides enough money to pay the utilities and insurance, but they turn to the government food program for meals.
They rely on weekly deliveries of nutritionally balanced surplus food. "The pantry gives you food, but not really enough to put in your refrigerator," June Anderson says.

"I would get out and beg before I'd let us go hungry," Bill Anderson adds.

Ron Cusin, who boxes up the basics that come from USDA's Commodity Supplemental Food Program, says usually the packages include some dried milk, pasta and two different types of juice.

You qualify for the program if you're over 60 with an annual income under $15,000. Distribution agencies in 40 states and two Native American reservations hand out the food packages. In Michigan, 29 agencies feed tens of thousands of residents — or they did until Oct. 3, when the USDA stopped reimbursing those agencies.

At the in Kent County, Mich., Judy Cusin (who is married to Ron Cusin) had to break the news to 1,500 low-income seniors that their next meal had been eliminated.


"We get all of our meat from the government," she says. Or rather, they did. "Hopefully," Knight says, "that will come back."

Aid officials say that nearly one-quarter of USDA's surplus food trickles down to local pantries. For Knight, that makes up one-half to three-quarters of her inventory. Losing that surplus means it's slimmer pickings for the families who come here to fill their stomachs.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/10/11/232159777/shutdown-leaves-some-seniors-worried-about-their-next-meal?sc=17&f=1128


If you're that concerned about it, get off your lazy ass and join a local church group and help deliver food to the old folks. Oh, you're not THAT concerned. I see.

[boutons_deux]

If you're that concerned about it, get off your lazy ass and join a local church group and help deliver food to the old folks. Oh, you're not THAT concerned. I see.

:lol

I've PAID for that public assistance already.

YOU call your Repug Congresscreep and Senators and tell them shutdown the shutdown.

[ChumpDumper]

If you're that concerned about it, get off your lazy ass and join a local church group and help deliver food to the old folks. Oh, you're not THAT concerned. I see.So you're not concerned about them at all?

[m>s]

You on Boutons team now brah

[boobie4three]

So you're not concerned about them at all?

Not as concerned as you evidently. Let us know how it went on your food delivery route today.

[ChumpDumper]

Not as concerned as you evidently. Let us know how it went on your food delivery route today.Good to know you are completely fine with the elderly starving.

It would be easier if the Republicans just started up the government again tbh.

[boobie4three]

Good to know you are completely fine with the elderly starving.

It would be easier if the Republicans just started up the government again tbh.

But the fact of the matter is, the government IS shutdown and these elderly need food, and YOU could do something about it RIGHT NOW.



What?... You're still here? ..You cold hearted bastard.

[ChumpDumper]

But the fact of the matter is, the government IS shutdown and these elderly need food, and YOU could do something about it RIGHT NOW.



What?... You're still here? ..You cold hearted bastard.Hey, you agree they Republicans are cold hearted bastards.


Nice.

[boobie4three]

Hey, you agree they Republicans are cold hearted bastards.


Nice.


Just spare us the fake concern from now on. Thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

Just spare us the fake concern from now on. Thanks.I'm checking to see what the situation is in Austin.

You?

[boobie4three]

I'm checking to see what the situation is in Austin.

You?

:lol

Chump to the rescue. You're right up there with Sean Penn paddling around the 9th ward after Katrina. Be sure to get some pics. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Why would you mock Meals on Wheels?

Weird.

[boobie4three]

Why would you mock Meals on Wheels?

Weird.

Pics or it didn't happen. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Pics or it didn't happen. :lolPics of what?

What is your problem here?

[boobie4three]

Pics of what?

What is your problem here?

Don't play dumb. It's very unbecoming. Pics of you delivering meals to old folks of course. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Don't play dumb. It's very unbecoming. Pics of you delivering meals to old folks of course. :lolOf course why?

What would it do for you?

[boobie4three]

Of course why?

What would it do for you?

It's what it would do for YOU. It would show everyone you're not a typical liberal hypocrite.

[SA210]

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/1379265_528535550567124_777183719_n.jpg

:lmao :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

It's what it would do for YOU. It would show everyone you're not a typical liberal hypocrite.So that's what is does for "everyone."

Not me.

Just say you fancy a pic of me. Jeez.

[boutons_deux]

How Christian Delusions Are Driving the GOP Insane


The willingness of Republicans to take the debt ceiling and the federal budget hostage in order to try to extract concessions from Democrats is probably the most lasting gift that the Tea Party has granted the country. More reasonable Republican politicians fear being primaried by Tea Party candidates (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=1&hp). A handful of wide-eyed fanatics in Congress have hijacked the party (http://gawker.com/the-ten-republicans-who-shut-down-the-government-1440374726). The Tea Party base and the hard right politicians driving this entire thing seem oblivious to the consequences. It’s no wonder, since so many of them---particularly those in leadership---are fundamentalist Christians whose religions have distorted their worldview until they cannot actually see what they’re doing and what kind of damage it would cause.

The press often talks about the Tea Party like they’re secularist movement that is interested mainly in promoting “fiscal conservatism”, a vague notion that never actually seems to make good on the promise to save taxpayer money. The reality is much different: The Tea Party is actually driven primarily by fundamentalist Christians whose penchant for magical thinking and belief that they’re being guided by divine forces makes it tough for them to see the real world as it is.

It’s not just that the rogue’s gallery of congress people (http://gawker.com/the-ten-republicans-who-shut-down-the-government-1440374726) who are pushing the hardest for hostage-taking as a negotiation tactic also happens to be a bench full of Bible thumpers.

Pew Research shows that people who align with the Tea Party (http://www.pewforum.org/2011/02/23/tea-party-and-religion/) are more likely to not only agree with the views of religious conservatives, but are likely to cite religious belief as their prime motivation for their political views. White evangelicals are the religious group most likely to approve of the Tea Party.

Looking over the data, it becomes evident that the “Tea Party” is just a new name for the same old white fundamentalists who would rather burn this country to the ground than share it with everyone else, and this latest power play from the Republicans is, in essence, a move from that demographic to assert their “right” to control the country, even if their politicians aren’t in power.

It’s no surprise, under the circumstances, that a movement controlled by fundamentalist Christians would be oblivious to the very real dangers that their actions present. Fundamentalist religion is extremely good at convincing its followers to be more afraid of imaginary threats than real ones, and to engage in downright magical thinking about the possibility that their own choices could work out very badly. When you believe that forcing the government into default in an attempt to derail Obamacare is the Lord’s work, it’s very difficult for you to see that it could have very real, negative effects.

It’s hard for the Christian fundamentalists who run the Republican Party now to worry about the serious economic danger they’re putting the world in, because they are swept up in worrying that President Obama is an agent of the devil and that the world is on the verge of mayhem and apocalypse if they don’t “stop” him somehow, presumably be derailing the Affordable Care Act. Christian conservatives such as Ellis Washington (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/wnd-obamacare-will-lead-systematic-genocide) are running around telling each other that the ACA will lead to “the systematic genocide of the weak, minorities, enfeebled, the elderly and political enemies of the God-state.” Twenty percent of Republicans believe Obama is the Antichrist (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/americans-believe-obama-anti-christ-global-warming-hoax_n_3008558.html).Washington Times columnist Jeffrey Kuhner (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/kuhner-liberalism-killing-millions-will-destroy-family-religion-and-civilization) argued that Obama is using his signature health care legislation to promote “the destruction of the family, Christian culture”, and demanded that Christians “need to engage in peaceful civil disobedience against President Obama’s signature health care law”.

http://www.alternet.org/belief/how-christian-delusions-are-driving-gop-insane?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

[boutons_deux]

Red States Discover The Pain of Paying Their Own Way (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/12/1246695/-Red-States-Discover-The-Pain-of-Paying-Their-Own-Way)

many of these states that depend on tourism dollars from national monuments discovered in no time flat how much they count on the Federal government to subsidize them. And were forced to admit it.

The Obama administration’s willingness (http://mtstandard.com/news/local/state-and-regional/some-states-to-reopen-national-parks-not-montana-wyoming/article_ebd42fe2-32f7-11e3-9ce1-001a4bcf887a.html) to reopen national parks shuttered by the government shutdown came with a big caveat: States must foot the bill with money they likely won’t see again.So far, Utah, Colorado, South Dakota, Arizona and New York have jumped at the deal. Governors in other states were trying to gauge Friday what would be the bigger economic hit — paying to keep the parks operating or losing the tourist money that flows when the scenic attractions are open.

South Dakota and several corporate donors worked out a deal with the National Park Service to reopen Mount Rushmore beginning Monday. Gov. Dennis Daugaard said it will cost $15,200 a day to pay the federal government to run the landmark in the Black Hills.

Arizona officials said a deal reached Friday will mean visitors should be able to return to Grand Canyon National Park on Saturday.

In Utah, federal workers rushed to reopen five national parks for 10 days after the state sent $1.67 million to the U.S. government with the hope of saving its lucrative tourist season.

Just over 400 national parks, recreation areas and monuments — including such icons as the Grand Canyon and Yosemite — have been closed since Oct. 1 because of the partial government shutdown.

Officials in some states were not happy about paying to have the parks reopened.

In Arizona, Republican Gov. Jan Brewer balked at spending about $112,000 a day for a full reopening of the Grand Canyon. She said a partial reopening would be much cheaper while allowing tourists to visit and businesses to benefit. :lol

“The daily cost difference is enormous, especially without assurances that Arizona will be reimbursed,” said Andrew Wilder, a spokesman for Brewer. :lol

In the end, Arizona agreed to pay the Park Service $651,000 to keep the Grand Canyon open for seven days. The $93,000 a day is less than the $112,000 the federal government had said was needed to fund park operations each day.

“Wyoming cannot bail out the federal government and we cannot use state money to do the work of the federal government,” Mead spokesman Renny MacKay said. :lol

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/12/1246695/-Red-States-Discover-The-Pain-of-Paying-Their-Own-Way?detail=email#


Where the fuck is the "free market" which always delivers the "optimal solution"? :lol

Another lesson for the govt-hatin/small-govt tea baggers about how Fed govt "intrudes" into their subsidized lives.

Freedom! (to suck govt tit)! :lol

[HI-FI]

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/q71/1379265_528535550567124_777183719_n.jpg

:lmao :lmao

:rollin:rollin
damn.

[boutons_deux]

Poll: Disapproval Of Republicans Hits New HighA staggering 74 percent of Americans now disapprove of the way that congressional Republicans are handling Washington’s budget crisis, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/disapproval-of-gop-peaks-in-blame-for-the-budget-crisis/) released Monday.

The poll finds that popular perception of the GOP has been declining since the government shut down on October 1. Two weeks ago, 63 percent disapproved of the Republicans’ handling of the budget dispute; that number rose to 70 percent last week, and 74 percent today.

By contrast, just 53 percent disapprove of President Obama’s handling of the crisis — essentially unchanged from before the government shutdown — and 61 percent disapprove of congressional Democrats on the issue, up from 56 percent two weeks ago.


Disapproval of the GOP strategy cuts across demographic groups, but Republicans should be especially troubled by their performance among women, who disapprove of their handling of the budget dispute by an overwhelming 77 to 17 percent margin.

Even among Republicans, 49 percent disapprove of their own party’s actions. :lol

http://www.nationalmemo.com/poll-disapproval-of-republicans-hits-new-high/

[pgardn]

you took me wrong, naturally

I was pointing out that tea baggers and libertarians wanting "small govt" should take this bill as an example how deeply govt subsidies and spending keeps the country rolling.

What?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Continuing down the road we're on and given enough time, of course we could become like Greece. Keep those rose colored glasses on. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

When another country holds the bank that issues or owns all of our debt then you can have that concern. Until then you should do more research so you can seem to have any clue of what you are talking about.

Bundesbank is the fed of Germany. They controlled Greece's debt and because of that were able to dictate to Greece that they were going to eat a shit burger. We are not remotely in that situation.

[boobie4three]

When another country holds the bank that issues or owns all of our debt then you can have that concern. Until then you should do more research so you can seem to have any clue of what you are talking about.

Bundesbank is the fed of Germany. They controlled Greece's debt and because of that were able to dictate to Greece that they were going to eat a shit burger. We are not remotely in that situation.

Unless we control spending, we're screwed.

The U.S. Has 20 Years Before Its Debt Will Reach Greek Levels

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg.html)

The federal deficit was 67 percent of our GDP in 2011, which is pretty bad, but not as bad as in that of the U.K., Italy, Japan, or Greece, according to a chart compiled by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. And, they claim, if our current rate of debt continues, we'll match Greece's current level in about 2030.

Using 2011 data from the International Monetary Fund and the Congressional Budget Office, Heritage illustrates the U.S. debt trajectory and places different financially-addled countries along its line. The CBO numbers are from an "alternative fiscal scenario," a budget outlook that assumes several policies that were set to expire would be renewed and both spending and tax cuts continue. Heritage tweeted the graph out today, a part of its Federal Budget in Pictures series.

Heritage's argument is that if the U.S. reaches Greece's debt level, the country will suffer similar economic distress. Regardless of what you draw from it, the graph does put national debt into perspective. The deficit is higher today than it has been in decades. It's not as bad as that of troubled European countries, but with some not-far-out circumstances, it could be.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/08/us-has-20-years-its-debt-will-reach-greek-levels/55607/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Unless we control spending, we're screwed.

The U.S. Has 20 Years Before Its Debt Will Reach Greek Levels

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg.html)

The federal deficit was 67 percent of our GDP in 2011, which is pretty bad, but not as bad as in that of the U.K., Italy, Japan, or Greece, according to a chart compiled by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. And, they claim, if our current rate of debt continues, we'll match Greece's current level in about 2030.

Using 2011 data from the International Monetary Fund and the Congressional Budget Office, Heritage illustrates the U.S. debt trajectory and places different financially-addled countries along its line. The CBO numbers are from an "alternative fiscal scenario," a budget outlook that assumes several policies that were set to expire would be renewed and both spending and tax cuts continue. Heritage tweeted the graph out today, a part of its Federal Budget in Pictures series.

Heritage's argument is that if the U.S. reaches Greece's debt level, the country will suffer similar economic distress. Regardless of what you draw from it, the graph does put national debt into perspective. The deficit is higher today than it has been in decades. It's not as bad as that of troubled European countries, but with some not-far-out circumstances, it could be.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/08/us-has-20-years-its-debt-will-reach-greek-levels/55607/

:lol Heritage Foundation. You know they are the ones that came up with the Obamacare scheme right?

Again, we are our own creditor. Germany was Greece's creditor. You are probably never going to get the concept but for everyone else, even if our debt gets to Greece's ratio of debt to GDP or whatever arbitrary metric according to a made up 21 year 'projection' like the one here, it will never be the same. Germany controls the euro. We control the dollar. It should also put a bit of a different perspective of the Federal Reserve if you think about it.

[boobie4three]

:lol Heritage Foundation. You know they are the ones that came up with the Obamacare scheme right?

Again, we are our own creditor. Germany was Greece's creditor. You are probably never going to get the concept but for everyone else, even if our debt gets to Greece's ratio of debt to GDP or whatever arbitrary metric according to a made up 21 year 'projection' like the one here, it will never be the same. Germany controls the euro. We control the dollar. It should also put a bit of a different perspective of the Federal Reserve if you think about it.

Fiddle away Nero.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn, the Republicans are taking more blame this time around than they did in 95.

They learned nothing.

[m>s]

who gives a shit, there won't be any blue/red in the next 10 years. its OVER, we're FED THE FUCK UP FIRE THEM ALL.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fiddle away Nero.

So are you saying that the Fed is issuing debt so that they can burn down an area so that the president can build a palace? If you are intimating that there is infighting to that extent amongst patricians then I am fine with it. I don't play violin though.

The issuer of debt is different. It just is. Sorry that it doesn't fit your narrative.

[ChumpDumper]

who gives a shit, there won't be any blue/red in the next 10 years. its OVER, we're FED THE FUCK UP FIRE THEM ALL.Yo're not going to do anything.

[baseline bum]

Damn, the Republicans are taking more blame this time around than they did in 95.

They learned nothing.

What does it matter with all the safe congressional districts out there and 3 long years until the presidential election?

[ChumpDumper]

What does it matter with all the safe congressional districts out there and 3 long years until the presidential election?True enough, I guess.

[boutons_deux]

Unless we control spending, we're screwed.

The U.S. Has 20 Years Before Its Debt Will Reach Greek Levels

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/krakee/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/krakee/media/graph_zps8e23ce82.jpeg.html)

The federal deficit was 67 percent of our GDP in 2011, which is pretty bad, but not as bad as in that of the U.K., Italy, Japan, or Greece, according to a chart compiled by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. And, they claim, if our current rate of debt continues, we'll match Greece's current level in about 2030.

Using 2011 data from the International Monetary Fund and the Congressional Budget Office, Heritage illustrates the U.S. debt trajectory and places different financially-addled countries along its line. The CBO numbers are from an "alternative fiscal scenario," a budget outlook that assumes several policies that were set to expire would be renewed and both spending and tax cuts continue. Heritage tweeted the graph out today, a part of its Federal Budget in Pictures series.

Heritage's argument is that if the U.S. reaches Greece's debt level, the country will suffer similar economic distress. Regardless of what you draw from it, the graph does put national debt into perspective. The deficit is higher today than it has been in decades. It's not as bad as that of troubled European countries, but with some not-far-out circumstances, it could be.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/08/us-has-20-years-its-debt-will-reach-greek-levels/55607/

Heritage, the VRWC Stink Tank run by Confederate asshole Jim Demint? :lol

Like the 2008 crisis, the next US financial catastrophe will not be the amount of debt but the FUCKING TENS OF $TRILLIONS in the financial casino that the Banskters will blow up and expect US to bail them out again.

[ElNono]

So are you saying that the Fed is issuing debt so that they can burn down an area so that the president can build a palace? If you are intimating that there is infighting to that extent amongst patricians then I am fine with it. I don't play violin though.

The issuer of debt is different. It just is. Sorry that it doesn't fit your narrative.

:lol not surprising that when you point out the very basic concept of "sovereign currency" you get a "I am rubber, you're glue" response, tbh...

I was reading a post online last night, about a guy doing the basic mistake of comparing the US economy with a household economy, and then wondering "what's going to happen when China and the Saudis call in their loans?"... I couldn't stop cracking up. Unfortunately, that's the general level of debate about the debt these days.

[boutons_deux]

The USA excessive debt comes from Repugs UNFUNDED spurious, botched wars, from Repug tax cuts, and UNFUNDED Repug Medicare Advantage and Part D. Never has USA had a war with RAISING TAXES to pay for it.

The debt is a VRWC policy meant to fuck over the 99% with austerity so the USA won't raise their taxes back to pay down debt.

[ElNono]

The USA excessive debt comes from Repugs UNFUNDED spurious, botched wars, from Repug tax cuts, and UNFUNDED Repug Medicare Advantage and Part D. Never has USA had a war with RAISING TAXES to pay for it.

The debt is a VRWC policy meant to fuck over the 99% with austerity so the USA won't raise their taxes back to pay down debt.

:blah

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol not surprising that when you point out the very basic concept of "sovereign currency" you get a "I am rubber, you're glue" response, tbh...

I was reading a post online last night, about a guy doing the basic mistake of comparing the US economy with a household economy, and then wondering "what's going to happen when China and the Saudis call in their loans?"... I couldn't stop cracking up. Unfortunately, that's the general level of debate about the debt these days.

GOP types couch the discussion in those terms and they vomit it back up. I really don't know what to do about the willfully duped.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What does it matter with all the safe congressional districts out there and 3 long years until the presidential election?

There are a good amount of house seats up for the midterms. From what I was reading, it is typical that the presidents party loses ground during those elections. It is not looking to be the case. Between that and the obvious impotence of RNC leadership, GOP types should be concerned.

The coalition of business groups, the religious right, and the morons of the South is set to fall apart. The 1994 Republican revolutions legacy will be gone. If the GOP is left with mavericks backed by various SPACs fighting over individual districts then they are going to have problems. Will they still be able to have political unity to forcefeed gerrymandered districts through state legislatures? their business model is in serious jeopardy.

[boutons_deux]

:blah

a devastating refutation, I'm humbled.

[ElNono]

a devastating refutation, I'm humbled.

about time, tbh

[Nbadan]

The GOP is a victim of it's own extremism...but it wouldn't even be possible without without ALEC money and talk show radio...it's no coincidence that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have a measurable influence on GOP politics...the old class GOP beware..

a cool case study on the decline of a political party at the Federal Level but rise at the state level..

[boutons_deux]

sounding like the Repug House won't go along if the Senate bill doesn't screw up ACA enough.

[boutons_deux]

This is looking bad

House Outlines Alternative to Senate Leaders’ Fiscal Deal

House Republicans tempered their demands to scale back President Obama’s health care law, announcing that they would soon vote on a proposal meant to counteract a less conservative plan coming from the Senate.

In contrast to the Senate plan which would do little to change the Affordable Care Act, the House plan would make minor changes to the law.

would eliminate subsidies for health care coverage for members of Congress and the president,

House Republicans ... opened their meeting Tuesday morning by singing “Amazing Grace.” :lol :lol :lol :lol

whether enough House Republicans, a group that is deeply divided over raising the debt ceiling at all, would get behind the plan.

House Republicans were extremely unhappy with the Senate plan.


“We’ve got a name for it in the House: it’s called the Senate surrender caucus,” said Representative Tim Huelskamp, Republican of Kansas. “Anybody who would vote for that in the House as Republican would virtually guarantee a primary challenger.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/us/politics/congress-budget-debate.html?from=homepage

Of course, while this repulsive, repugnant, cretinous tea bag theatrics drags on, real Congressional business is ignored. That's what we get when you assholes send hate/destroy govt assholes to Congress. They don't GAFF about govt so shutting it down, not earning their salaries and perks is "honest" for them.

[pgardn]

:lol not surprising that when you point out the very basic concept of "sovereign currency" you get a "I am rubber, you're glue" response, tbh...

I was reading a post online last night, about a guy doing the basic mistake of comparing the US economy with a household economy, and then wondering "what's going to happen when China and the Saudis call in their loans?"... I couldn't stop cracking up. Unfortunately, that's the general level of debate about the debt these days.

I know my household is big enough to offer a variety of T-bills to all my neighbors. I make my wife keep track of when they are due. Easy stuff ... My dog tells me when my cat goes to the doctor so we can provide Medicare assistance. Same doctor won't accept our parrot because that comes out of our Medicaid fund.

A bit worried about next month as I owe social security to the all the animals.

This is is not working well...

[boutons_deux]

Sounds like we will get hit with all this tea bagger extortionist shit again in Jan and Feb.

[boutons_deux]

House Repugs fucking it up, as usual

===========

House Republicans appear intent on extracting at least one concession: depriving members of Congress, the president, the vice president and White House political appointees of government contributions when they buy health insurance under the law’s new exchanges. Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the majority leader, said any proposal must reflect what he called “our position on fairness” — “no special treatment under the law.”


Those words have become code for legislative language that denies employer contributions to politicians forced into the exchanges by a clause in the original health care law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/us/politics/congress-budget-debate.html?hp

[boutons_deux]

How Republicans Came To Own Sequestration’s Devastating Cuts As A Victory (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/15/2782911/republican-victory-sequestration/)


It may seem like ancient history, but sequestration was originally designed to be so unpalatable to both parties that the threat of its automatic budget cuts to both defense and non-defense programs alike would be enough to force lawmakers to come to a grand bargain budget agreement. As it first went into effect in March, Republicans tried to pin the blame for any negative consequences on President Obama. But they gradually came out in favor of sequestration’s devastating cuts and have now made it the baseline in the fight over funding the government.

Here’s how we got from “Obama’s sequester” to a Republican victory:

February 8: Boehner Dubs It #Obamaquester As the automatic cuts look likely to take effect, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) decides to brand sequestration the #Obamaquester (http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/02/boehners-office-dubs-it-obamaquester-156511.html) on Twitter.

February 13: Sequestration Will Be A “Home Run” At a Politico event, Rep. Mike Pompeo says sequestration will be a “home run” (http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2013/02/pompeo-sequester-will-be-home-run.html) for reducing spending.

February 17: Blame For Impact Lies With Obama While trying to downplay the impact of the cuts, Republicans also geared up to blame President Obama for the negative consequences. Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) said on CNN, “I believe the president has a lot of authority that he can decide how this works, and, yeah, he can make it very uncomfortable (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/02/17/1604821/gop-eager-for-the-sequester-to-go-into-effect-so-they-can-blame-obama-for-its-devastating-consequences/), which I think would be a mistake on the part of the president, but when you take a look at the total dollars there are better ways to do this, but the cuts are going to occur.”

February 22: Sequestration “Must Be Done” Speaking to a reporter, Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) argues in favor of letting the cuts go into effect. Pointing out that the state of Georgia reduced its budget by 30 percent, he said, “Are you telling me we can’t cut 2.4 percent out of the federal budget?” He added, “It absolutely can be done, it must be done in order to get us on a path to get this economy rolling again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-jH5h-WcXw&feature=player_embedded).”

February 28: “Obama’s Sequester” As sequestration cuts were about to take place in a matter of days, the National Republican Congressional Committee calls it “Obama’s sequester” and warns that it will “cut devastating segments of our economy (http://www.nrcc.org/2013/02/28/right-question-wrong-answer/), instead of the billions in documented waste.”

March: Republicans Decry The Closure Of White House Tours While the impact of sequestration was immediately felt by Meals on Wheels recipients, government contractors, and public schools, the closure of White House tours to deal with the cuts created an outcry among Republicans. Fourteen Republican Senators send a letter to President Obama questioning the decision (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/white-house-tours-sequestration_n_2878022.html).

April 22: Republicans Blame Obama For Flight Delays Sequestration’s cuts forced the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to furlough workers, leading to long flight delays for travelers. Republicans place the blame with Obama, again taking to twitter with a new hashtag: #ObamaFlightDelays (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/22/1203997/-GOP-launches-new-Twitter-hashtag-to-complain-about-austerity-they-demanded#). The uproar leads to quick bipartisan action to give the FAA more flexibility and bring the furloughed workers back.

April 26: Sequestration Is “Actually Working” Sen. John Boozman (R-AR) became one of the first Republicans to say that sequestration had a positive impact, saying, “You know, you can knock sequestration or not knock it, but it’s worked in the sense that hit has forced reduction in spending (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/26/1926001/gop-senator-embraces-sequestration-it-has-actually-worked/). And I’ve been here 11 years and this is the first time I’ve seen it in this manner, in the sense that it is something that’s actually working.”

May 1: People “Want To See More Sequestration” Rep. Billy Long (R-Mo.) joined him a few weeks later to say that Americans are in favor of the cuts. “The people that I’ve talked to seem to be doing well,” he says. “In fact, when I got out in restaurants here in town, people come up to me. They want to see more sequestration, not less (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/05/01/1949911/republican-people-want-more-sequestration-long/).”

May 16: Sequestration “Legitimate” Way To Cut The Budget House Judiciary Chair Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) joins the chorus, pushing back on “the administration attempt[ing] to vilify sequestration” which he says is “a legitimate effort to cut 2.5 percent of the entire federal budget (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/05/16/2022371/congressman-sequestration-is-a-legitimate-way-to-cut-the-budget/).”

July 10: Republicans Push Cuts Deeper Than Sequestration House Republicans on the Appropriations Committee release a budget plan that increases sequestration’s cuts to most programs (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/10/2276141/republicans-sequester-defense/) while simultaneously lessening the impact on defense programs.

July 31: House Fails To Implement Cuts That Go Further The House is supposed to vote on an appropriations bill for transportation and housing programs that includes cuts that go deeper than sequestration. But when Republican members have to vote to implement these specific reductions, so many balk that the vote is pulled for a lack of support (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/01/2397391/house-republicans-appropriations-cuts/). Given the inability of Republicans to implement the specifics, Rep. Hal Rogers (R-KY) says, “I believe that the House has made its choice: Sequestration — and its unrealistic and ill-conceived discretionary cuts — must be brought to an end (http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/31/19800183-top-republican-stop-unrealistic-sequestration-cuts).”

September 20: Sequestration Becomes Baseline In Shutdown Fight As the September 30 deadline to keep the government funded with a continuing resolution (CR) approaches, House Republicans, joined by two Democrats, pass a CR at sequestration’s levels (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/20/2657581/continuing-resolution-sequestration-republicans/). In the ensuing fight, this becomes the “clean” version of the CR.

October: Sequestration “One Of The Good Things That Happened” Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) argues on Fox News that sequestration “has been one of the good things that has happened (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/13/2774871/conservative-praises-sequestration-good-happened/)” and vows that in the House, “We’re not going to break the sequester cap” in ongoing negotiations to re-open the government.

While Republicans have decided to own sequestration’s cuts, the devastation continues to take a toll around the country.

More than 57,000 low-income preschoolers (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/19/2487691/sequestration-57000-children-head-start/) lost their slots in Head Start.

The home-bound elderly (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/05/01/1946271/budget-cuts-meals-on-wheels/) are getting fewer visits from Meals on Wheels.

More than 650,000 employees at the Department of Defense (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/08/2264111/sequestration-defense-furloughs/) have been furloughed.

Cancer patients (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/04/04/1819811/sequestration-cancer-clinics/) have been denied chemotherapy.

Low-income families (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/12/2293211/affordable-housing-sequestration/) are being denied housing vouchers and the homeless (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/25/2356251/sequestration-homelessness/) are getting less support.

Domestic violence victims (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/06/03/2093221/domestic-violence-shelters-fear-the-ultimate-cost-from-sequestration/) are being turned away from support programs.

Unemployment checks for the long-term unemployed (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/02/2249251/sequestration-slashes-benefits-for-the-long-term-unemployed/) have been reduced.

Schools on or near military bases and Native American reservations (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/19/2330601/sequestration-hammers-neediest-schools-with-staff-cuts-closures/) have had to lay off staff and close schools.

Other public schools (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/27/2535771/school-budget-cuts-sequestration/) have increased class sizes and fired staff.

Scientists (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/30/2558001/half-americas-scientists-laid-people-budget-cuts/) have had to fire people and shutter projects.

And it’s taken a big toll on the economy. The Congressional Budget Office found that undoing sequestration could add as much as 1.2 percent to GDP (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/26/2359781/report-canceling-sequestration-could-add-up-to-16-million-jobs/) and create 1.6 million jobs.

The cuts have been a drag on growth (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/31/2388131/gdp-report-sequestration/), consumer spending (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/30/2557211/consumer-spending-furloughs/), and wages.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/15/2782911/republican-victory-sequestration/

[boutons_deux]

House Republican leaders, who had appeared stymied in their efforts earlier in the day, rushed out a new proposal Tuesday afternoon that would reopen the government through Dec. 15, extend the government’s borrowing authority until Feb. 7 and eliminate government contributions to lawmakers, White House officials and their staffs for their purchases of health insurance on the new insurance exchanges.

Under the new plan, the Treasury Department would be forbidden to use “extraordinary measures” — juggling government accounts — to extend its borrowing capabilities. Speaker John A. Boehner was hoping to bring a bill to a vote as early as Tuesday evening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/us/politics/congress-budget-debate.html?_r=0&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1381872191-Ht/TilTMfC8Z+wsLs3pY6A

This sure looks like Treasury is going to default Thursday.

[boutons_deux]

The Ghost of Authoritarianism in the Age of the Shutdown
A new type of criminal regime now drives American politics, one devoid of any sense of justice, equality and honor.

It thrives on fear, the false promise of security and an egregious fusion of economic, religious and racist ideologies that have become normalized.

This new dystopia wants nothing more than the complete destruction of the formative culture, collectives and the institutions that make democracy possible.

Inequality is its engine, and disposability is the reward for large segments of the American public.

It ideologies and structure of politics often have been hidden from the American public. The shutdown and debt-ceiling crisis have forced the new authoritarianism out of the shadows into the light.

The lockdown state is on full display with its concentrated economic power and the willingness of the apostles of authoritarianism to push millions of people into ruin.

Paraphrasing Eric Cazdyn, all of society is now at the mercy of a corporate, religious, and financial elite just as "all ideals are at the mercy of [a] larger economic logic."31 (http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19428-the-ghost-of-authoritarianism-in-the-age-of-the-shutdown#_edn31)

The category of hell is alive and well in the racist and imperial enclaves of the rich, the bigoted, the bankers and hedge fund managers.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19428-the-ghost-of-authoritarianism-in-the-age-of-the-shutdown

[baseline bum]

So how many orders of magnitude more destructive will our default be than Russia's 1998 default?

[boutons_deux]

So how many orders of magnitude more destructive will our default be than Russia's 1998 default?

impossible to say, but surely the ToWealthyToFeelPain Kock Bros and other wealthy assholes who put the Kock-sucker House tea baggers into office, and who threaten to primary any House Repug non-tea bagger who doesn't vote with the tea baggers, will not suffer any destruction.

[angrydude]

GOP types couch the discussion in those terms and they vomit it back up. I really don't know what to do about the willfully duped.

You're an idiot.

The principles of economics and supply and demand do not go away as things get bigger. They just get more complex as more variables are added.

And you think some dumbass technocrat with a lousy track record can micromanage them all without it all going to hell eventually. Oops, too late.

[Th'Pusher]

You're an idiot.

The principles of economics and supply and demand do not go away as things get bigger. They just get more complex as more variables are added.

And you think some dumbass technocrat with a lousy track record can micromanage them all without it all going to hell eventually. Oops, too late.

It's not the size or complexity of the economy. It's that fact that the US controls it's currency. It is a sovereign currency. This is not the case with Greece. The two situations are completely incomparable. Why is this so fucking hard for you morons to understand?

[ElNono]

The US economy is like any other household that can print it's own money and owes all it's debt in that same currency...

[AntiChrist]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally." -BHO 2006

Same sentiment expessed in 2013? Crazy talk

[ElNono]

Then he proceeded to take the government hostage... you don't mess with muslims, tbh...

[Th'Pusher]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally." -BHO 2006

Same sentiment expessed in 2013? Crazy talk
So you still think the two are the same. Question. If Reid and McConnell are able to cobble together a deal and Ted Cruz decides to hold up proceedings forcing the government to default on its debt, would you equate that to Obama and 45 other democrats voting against raising the debt ceiling in 2006?

[AntiChrist]

We should just mint trillion dollar coins. Problem solved.

[ElNono]

We should just mint trillion dollar coins. Problem solved.

GOP is on the case...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57562559-10391739/gop-lawmaker-proposes-ban-on-trillion-dollar-coin/

[AntiChrist]

So you still think the two are the same. Question. If Reid and McConnell are able to cobble together a deal and Ted Cruz decides to hold up proceedings forcing the government to default on its debt, would you equate that to Obama and 45 other democrats voting against raising the debt ceiling in 2006?

My point is that fiscal responsibility seems to be an important problem, only when the "other" party is in the WH.

[AntiChrist]

GOP is on the case...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57562559-10391739/gop-lawmaker-proposes-ban-on-trillion-dollar-coin/


lol, someone taking Krugman's ideas seriously

[ElNono]

My point is that fiscal responsibility seems to be an important problem, only when the "other" party is in the WH.

fiscal responsibility lost the election... plus you pointed it out before: if Obamacare is such a ticking time-bomb, why is the GOP immolating themselves over it?

[Th'Pusher]

My point is that fiscal responsibility seems to be an important problem, only when the "other" party is in the WH.

When Obama and the democrats voted against increasing the debt ceiling, the budget deficit was increasing. The budget deficit is now decreasing and has been for the last 4 years.

[ElNono]

The fiscal problem really boils down to what each party wants to cut... it's as simple as that. It's not that there's not a concern, it's that where the cuts should be are polar opposites on both parties.

[AntiChrist]

fiscal responsibility lost the election... plus you pointed it out before: if Obamacare is such a ticking time-bomb, why is the GOP immolating themselves over it?

I don't disagree with this

[AntiChrist]

The fiscal problem really boils down to what each party wants to cut... it's as simple as that. It's not that there's not a concern, it's that where the cuts should be are polar opposites on both parties.

Yep, but the amounts we spend on defense vs entitlements have flipped upside down since the mid 1950's.

[ElNono]

Yep, but the amounts we spend on defense vs entitlements have flipped upside down since the mid 1950's.

We had a bipartisan balanced budget a mere 13 years ago. When there's good will, there's a way. But there's no good will at this time.

[AntiChrist]

We had a bipartisan balanced budget a mere 13 years ago. When there's good will, there's a way. But there's no good will at this time.

This is true. There is no good will, but it's not one-sided.

[pgardn]

You're an idiot.

The principles of economics and supply and demand do not go away as things get bigger..

Who said they did?
If you think a Frkn household is a good model for how the US government manages its money you are a dolt.
This ridiculously simplistic analogy put forth by republicans is disingenuous and dangerous when dealing with an ignorant public like yourself.

[ElNono]

This is true. There is no good will, but it's not one-sided.

It never is, but there's only one team actively sabotaging those from their own team that want to sit down and talk.

And I'm not pointing this out merely as a 'blame game'. What it's happening to the GOP is being done by the GOP itself and it's toxic as hell.

[Trainwreck2100]

Nothing like a good old fashion game of economy chicken

[Wild Cobra]

Nothing like a good old fashion game of economy chicken
Do demonmrats know how to play chicken?

[angrydude]

Who said they did?
If you think a Frkn household is a good model for how the US government manages its money you are a dolt.
This ridiculously simplistic analogy put forth by republicans is disingenuous and dangerous when dealing with an ignorant public like yourself.

I never said it was a good model. I said the economic principles are the same.

Analogies illustrate complex concepts in simple terms that people can understand.

But the principles are the same.

There is only a finite amount of shit in the world to buy at any price.

Printing money doesn't change that.

It just everyone besides the person who gets the money first poorer.

But have fun being an apologist for our banker overlords.

[ElNono]

I never said it was a good model. I said the economic principles are the same.

Analogies illustrate complex concepts in simple terms that people can understand.

But the economic principles are not the same....

For an entity that does not control the currency of it's debt (a household, a state, Greece, etc) "shit hitting the fan" means bankruptcy.

For an entity that does control the currency of it's debt, "shit hitting the fan" means something completely different: inflation (because since they can issue as much phony money as they want to pay off their debt, they effectively cannot go bankrupt. But more issuing leads to value liquidation of the currency, which leads to increased cost of goods => inflation).

What people have been trying to say here, is that the analogy is crap, because it literally is apples and oranges. And it only took 2 paragraphs to explain what is the difference.

But as a scare tactic, using that kind of analogies works great for politicos. It's a way for them to appeal to one of the biggest fears of people in general: financial ruin.

[angrydude]

I'm sorry. You're wrong. Shit hitting the fan means bankruptcy in both cases. It just takes different forms and a lot longer.

[ElNono]

I'm sorry. You're wrong. Shit hitting the fan means bankruptcy in both cases. It just takes different forms and a lot longer.

State your case.

[angrydude]

But you're right that there is no Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing for nations.

[ElNono]

But you're right that there is no Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing for nations.

It has nothing to do with Chapter 11. It has to do with who controls issuing of the currency.

Most countries accrue debt in different denominations (ie: the US dollar, Euros, etc), and thus, when they can't pay back, they effectively go bankrupt (and normally go through debt restructuring, which can be onerous).

You could make the argument that hyperinflation is coming if we keep spending at these levels, but inflation in general has been fairly under control.

BTW, I'm not opposed to curbing spending and have the debt/GDP rate under control. You don't want to get to the point where inflation starts to creep up.

[angrydude]

Bankruptcy for nations means that nobody wants your paper money any more.

You can't import things as easily and everyone therefore becomes poorer.

The government eventually can't finance its operations and collapses or becomes North Korea.

Then you try it over again.

Think about Iceland. I'll admit it's not a perfect example but nothing usually is.

[angrydude]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default

[ElNono]

Bankruptcy for nations means that nobody wants your paper money any more.

You can't import things as easily and everyone therefore becomes poorer.

The government eventually can't finance its operations and collapses or becomes North Korea.

Then you try it over again.

Think about Iceland.

We're getting closer, you're describing exactly what I pointed out above.

And it's not bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is the inability to pay your debts. Greece, for example, had outstanding debt obligations in Euros, and since it didn't have them, they couldn't pay. Which is the same thing that happens when the household doesn't have enough money to pay the loans.

What you're describing is effectively inflation: Since the currency is losing value, importers want more money for their goods, which in turn means imported goods cost more, and salaries can't keep up. It indeed makes everybody 'poorer' but at the same time, it actually increases competitiveness... Now you can manufacture in the US and build cheaper than the imported good.

Again, two completely different situation. BTW, IIRC, the only two countries with full monetary sovereignty are the US and Japan. That is, they only have debts in their own currency.

[boutons_deux]

We had a bipartisan balanced budget a mere 13 years ago. When there's good will, there's a way. But there's no good will at this time.

The budget became unbalanced under the Repugs 2001 - 2008: Repug tax cuts, 2 unfunded Repug wars, unfunded Medicare Advantage and Pard D (and with govt forbidden to negotiate drug prices). Remove those, and budget is very close to being balanced.

The explosion of Medicare and Medicaid has not been due to those humanitarian programs as policies but the exorbitant annual increases for 30 years in medical costs for nothing in return.

[ElNono]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_sovereignty

[ElNono]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default

Does not apply to the US. There's technically no instance where the US cannot pay it's debt obligations. (and by technically, I mean things like the 'debt ceiling' are entirely political instruments. There's no reason, other than inflation, that the US cannot issue dollars to pay for it's obligations).

[angrydude]

We're getting closer, you're describing exactly what I pointed out above.

And it's not bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is the inability to pay your debts. Greece, for example, had outstanding debt obligations in Euros, and since it didn't have them, they couldn't pay. Which is the same thing that happens when the household doesn't have enough money to pay the loans.

What you're describing is effectively inflation: Since the currency is losing value, importers want more money for their goods, which in turn means imported goods cost more, and salaries can't keep up. It indeed makes everybody 'poorer' but at the same time, it actually increases competitiveness... Now you can manufacture in the US and build cheaper than the imported good.

Again, two completely different situation. BTW, IIRC, the only two countries with full monetary sovereignty are the US and Japan. That is, they only have debts in their own currency.

What you call competitiveness I call slavery. The debtor nation is forced to work to pay off its debt to the creditor one. That's a semi-voluntary loss of sovereignty. Or you can refuse and your creditor can declare war on you. That's a involuntary loss of sovereignty. In either case, not good.

The US is a special case but only because it has the reserve currency and therefore is going to be the last country to take the plunge. But being last country to jump off a bridge is not good public policy. And just because nobody could invade the US to force it to pay back its debts doesn't mean that there are no consequences for accruing it. That's an issue of enforcement, not economics.

[angrydude]

Does not apply to the US. There's technically no instance where the US cannot pay it's debt obligations. (and by technically, I mean things like the 'debt ceiling' are entirely political instruments. There's no reason, other than inflation, that the US cannot issue dollars to pay for it's obligations).

There was no reason Iceland couldn't either. They issue the krona why not keeping issuing. What happened? Nobody wanted it. The exchange markets did it for them before they even had the chance to inflate and England essentially threatened war on them if they did.

[boutons_deux]

Obama vows veto over Vitter measure

President Barack Obama told House Democratic leaders Tuesday that he would veto debt-ceiling legislation if it includes a provision pushed by Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) and House GOP leaders that would cut health subsidies for congressional and senior executive branch officials,

While Obama said he would veto the Vitter language, he was "more irate," one of the sources said, over the Republican proposal to limit his ability to use tools referred to as extraordinary measures to avoid a default.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/10/obama-would-veto-legislation-175145.html

the Repug proposal to block the Treasury's "extraordinary measures" is bad-faith (duh, it's the Repugs) throwing gasoline on the fire.

[ElNono]

What you call competitiveness I call slavery. The debtor nation is forced to work to pay off its debt to the creditor one. That's a semi-voluntary loss of sovereignty. Or you can refuse and your creditor can declare war on you. That's a involuntary loss of sovereignty. In either case, not good.

You lost me. The debtor (the US) pays in US dollars. It doesn't have "to work to pay off it's debt". It just needs to issue the amount of US dollars it owes when the payment is due. That's it. It's all fiat money.

The creditor now has US dollars sitting at the Fed which they can either spend or re-invest in another loan.


The US is a special case but only because it has the reserve currency and therefore is going to be the last country to take the plunge. But being last country to jump off a bridge is not good public policy. And just because nobody could invade the US to force it to pay back its debts doesn't mean that there are no consequences for accruing it. That's an issue of enforcement, not economics.

Well, it isn't the US that chose what countries use for reserve currency. Every country is free to chose what they peg their currency to. It just happens that the US is one of the biggest economies and also a fairly stable country that in general doesn't manipulate it's currency much (at least not at the level that other countries do).

[angrydude]

I'm talking about in general, like it is for most small countries not the US which is a special case.

Small countries with lots of debt have to work to pay off their debts by using their exports to pay for their imports. If it can't, it doesn't get imports. Money also gets taxed from the populace and the government has to make the debt payments in whatever currency it wants (it could buy US dollars with its local currency and pay it off with that). The taxed money that is paying off the debt is an outflow from the economy because it isn't saved in the economy.

What will happen to the US is other countries will eventually stop using the dollar. China desperately wants to internationalize the RMB. They are doing currency swaps with anyone who will listen. When the world starts trading in RMB instead of dollars, there is less need for dollars, and our ability to print them to buy our imports goes down. Then we have to work, ie produce things, to buy our imports. That is not a good thing. A good thing is to have a magic machine that produces everything we want for free with none of us having to work. Then we'd all be rich. But until that happens, more work is bad. (income distribution is a whole different thing altogether)

The US shouldn't be engaging in activities that will cause other countries to not want our dollars. It may take a hundred years but eventually that well runs dry. Then all we'll be left with is the debt.

[ElNono]

There was no reason Iceland couldn't either. They issue the krona why not keeping issuing. What happened? Nobody wanted it. The exchange markets did it for them before they even had the chance to inflate and England essentially threatened war on them if they did.

Ehhh, no. Iceland had a size-able external debt (about $116 billion USD in 2008).

[boutons_deux]

Shutdown and Default Considered Small Price to Pay for Banning Birth Control, Say Catholic Bishops and Paul Ryan

Cardinal Séan O’Malley and Archbishop William Lori asked that the language of the proposed Health Care Conscience Rights Act (H.R. 940, S. 1204) be added to either the continuing resolution (CR) legislation needed to fund the operation of the federal government, or to the legislation needed to prevent the United States from defaulting on its debt.

Opposition to the birth control benefit has been framed by the bishops and their allies as an infringement of their religious liberty, turning the definition of the term on its head by claiming a right to impose their theological views on those
who believe differently. The religious liberty theme—and the claim that President Barack Obama aims to revoke it—is one that pervaded the annual conference, which took place at the Omni Shoreham Hotel, a sprawling Washington landmark.

According to two Republicans familiar with the exchange, Ryan argued that the House would need those deadlines as “leverage” for delaying the health-care law’s individual mandate and adding a “conscience clause”—allowing employers and insurers to opt out of birth-control coverage if they find it objectionable on moral or religious grounds—and mentioned tax and entitlement goals Ryan had focused on in a recent op-ed in the Wall Street Journal.

the bishops insist on falsely describing (http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/upload/dolan-letter-on-religious-liberty.pdf) some of the prescription contraception methods covered by the preventive care regulations issued by the Department of Health and Human Services under the ACA as “abortifacients.”

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/10/14/u-s-default-low-price-to-pay-for-banning-birth-control-according-to-catholic-bishops-and-paul-ryan/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=u-s-default-low-price-to-pay-for-banning-birth-control-according-to-catholic-bishops-and-paul-ryan

:lol the male-pedophile-protecting Catholic Church pushing legislation of its morals on female non-Catholics.

[angrydude]

Ehhh, no. Iceland had a size-able external debt (about $116 billion USD in 2008).

2008 was the year everything went to hell in Iceland. I know its different. They couldn't roll over the debt. The banks were private, yada yada. Same effect.

I haven't really been updated on the goings on but I know they essentially told England to go screw themselves, put the bankers in jail, and rewrote their constitution.

[ElNono]

I'm talking about in general, like it is for most small countries not the US which is a special case.

Small countries with lots of debt have to work to pay off their debts by using their exports to pay for their imports. If it can't, it doesn't get imports. Money also gets taxed from the populace and the government has to make the debt payments in whatever currency it wants (it could buy US dollars with its local currency and pay it off with that). The taxed money that is paying off the debt is an outflow from the economy because it isn't saved in the economy.

Smaller countries are a completely different story, couldn't agree more. I come from one, and the whole debt story there is completely different.


What will happen to the US is other countries will eventually stop using the dollar. China desperately wants to internationalize the RMB. They are doing currency swaps with anyone who will listen. When the world starts trading in RMB instead of dollars, there is less need for dollars, and our ability to print them to buy our imports goes down. Then we have to work, ie produce things, to buy our imports. That is not a good thing. A good thing is to have a magic machine that produces everything we want for free with none of us having to work. Then we'd all be rich. But until that happens, more work is bad. (income distribution is a whole different thing altogether)

The US shouldn't be engaging in activities that will cause other countries to not want our dollars. It may take a hundred years but eventually that well runs dry.

The problem is that the Chinese manipulate the RMB way more than the US does. China has effectively been engaging in currency depreciation to remain a competitive force since forever.
Right now this political instability is much more damaging to the US than the actual ratio of debt/GDP. Getting spending and future debt under control has to be done, but it can't be done with all this posturing.

But going back to the original premise, we're not on a household economy. I'm tired of listening on the impending bankruptcy and "what happens when the creditors call in their debts"... there's no such thing (for the US)

[ElNono]

2008 was the year everything went to hell in Iceland. I know its different. They couldn't roll over the debt.

I haven't really been updated on the goings on but I know they essentially told England to go screw themselves, put the bankers in jail, and rewrote their constitution.

Pretty much. Ballsy and it worked great for them. Their external debt in US dollars has spiked though.

[ElNono]

lol boutons

[angrydude]

Smaller countries are a completely different story, couldn't agree more. I come from one, and the whole debt story there is completely different.



The problem is that the Chinese manipulate the RMB way more than the US does. China has effectively been engaging in currency depreciation to remain a competitive force since forever.
Right now this political instability is much more damaging to the US than the actual ratio of debt/GDP. Getting spending and future debt under control has to be done, but it can't be done with all this posturing.

But going back to the original premise, we're not on a household economy. I'm tired of listening on the impending bankruptcy and "what happens when the creditors call in their debts"... there's no such thing (for the US)

No we're not a household economy. All I'm saying though that just like a household economy eventually debt screws you. You're right that they won't ever call in our debts. That's just really confused people talking.

But the financial system was set up to be unsustainable to benefit the rich so its going to happen eventually anyway and neither side cares.

[ElNono]

I gotta get some sleep. Will be continued

[pgardn]

The bottom line is that the safest way the world sees to invest or harbor it's assets is in the US. Primarily in T-bills.

Make this haven perceived as shaky, and most of the world is gonna have a problem. Perception is huge in all of this. The Republicans have been reprimanded by a whole lot of people from all parts of the world that understand this. The old school republicans understand this, the tea baggers want to run an experiment. Apparently uncertainty is fun for them.

[pgardn]

It was plain stupid for the republicans to tie something that is already passed by congress (Obamacare), to our ability to pay our bills.

Sometimes problems need to be separated. This is not some little subsidy that a congressman from Alaska tries to attach a little gravy for his constituents to look good. The tea party thinks they need to uphold some moral standard foolishness so they can say they fought Obamacare. They knew the democrats would not budge, they think this is some silly little game so they can look good to Rush Limbaugh and thus their ignorant vocal minority back home.

Playing chicken in your car with a wall that moves randomly is not wise.

[boutons_deux]

"It was plain stupid for the republicans"

... no surprise, they're tea baggin Repugs, in gerrymandered-safe districts

[Wild Cobra]

So someone remind me.

What harm will come tomorrow if the demonrats continue this shutdown?

[boutons_deux]

"Under the agreement, the government would be funded through Jan. 15, and the debt ceiling will be extended to Feb. 7. The Senate will take up a separate motion to instruct House and Senate negotiators to reach accord by Dec. 13 on a long-term blueprint for tax-and-spending policies over the next decade."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/17/us/congress-budget-debate.html?hp&_r=0

so the tea baggers can fuck up the country again in Jan and Feb, IF the Householes pass the Senate bill.

[boutons_deux]

So someone remind me.

What harm will come tomorrow if the demonrats continue this shutdown?

"Do Your Own Research"

--WC